Cautiously dipping a toe in here...
 

Hi everyone --

As my username implies, I'm a Duke grad as well as mom to an almost 4-year old. I'm just starting the investigation process and only have a vague idea in which group(s) I'm interested, so I'll start by asking a question: Are women who join NPC sororities via AI generally younger (say, in their 20s) than those who join non-collegiate organizations such as Beta Sigma Phi?

I hesitate to reveal my age but will admit to being out of college for "a while". :o From reading some of the other threads on this board I get a feeling (although perhaps completely unfounded) that most of the women who pledge NPC sororities are only a few years removed from college, whereas Beta Sigma Phi or Epsilon Sigma Alpha -- to use two examples -- are more likely to initiate sisters of all ages. I just want to make sure I pursue membership to a group in which I'll feel comfortable and have things in common with the women there. By the same token, I don't want to be the youngest person in my chapter by a decade (or two!).

Let me conclude by saying that I have discovered one NPC sorority whose national philanthropy/service project is very near and dear to my (and my husband's) heart. However, they have never had a Duke chapter so I don't have any college buddies from whom to get information on them.

I look forward to your responses...THANKS!

dukemama

Well, the first and most important question- WHY do you want to join a sorority? What are you looking for in a group? Why now? Why didn't you join one in college? What kind of activities do you want to participate in? What kind of age groups do you want to interact with.

I think your assumptions about ages of age ranges of AI's is not correct.

But again, the most important question is- Why?

I think its important to note that when you alumna initiate you don't really "pledge" a sorority--if that is what you are looking for then those other groups might be more of what you are expecting (I don't know what their education process is). Alumna Initiation is more of an honor, so while you learn about the sorority through your sponsor, there is no formal "pledging" process---at least for my group, and I think most.

And as kddani said--the ages range. An AI is usually a woman with some life experience (late 20's) up to grandma's of members (like mine who was 76 at the time of initiation.)

First off: hello and welcome dukemama!

In response to your post, I have to agree with what both posters in front of me. If you do decide on the NPC route the questions that kddani posed are questions that you will be asked. Also, my two cents, if you go the NPC route by all means be as discrete as possible. The fewer details about yourself that are out there, the better!!! :)

Best of luck with whatever you decide!

In my personal experience, the women I've seen become alumnae initiates were actually several years removed from college (all were in their 40s or older).

Admittedly, I haven't had personal experience with a large number of AIs - just reporting the age range for the handful that I have seen. :)

You mentioned that there is one NPC group that caught your eye due to philanthropy. Is there an active alumnae group for that sorority in your area? That's something you'd want to consider. Most NPC group websites show the locations of alumnae chapters/clubs on the public portion of their websites. I can't speak "officially" for my own group (or for any other NPC group), but I would speculate that the odds of successfully joining as an AI would decrease if there is no alumnae chapter/club in your area. (After all, who would you participate in activities and events with after you joined? ;) )

This is gonna get long. Pull up a chair, grab a cup of java and sit awhile...
 

There are several reasons I'm interested in joining a sorority at this time in my life. It's probably easier to explain if I start with my past history with GLOs.

When I was at Duke there were 10 NPC sororities on campus. During freshman year I seem to recall that most of the sororities invited me back for "Round 2" but I still ended up not receiving any bids that year.

I tried again sophomore year, fully aware that my chances would be much slimmer than before. I was quickly eliminated from 7 of the 10 sororities in after Round 1...and the remaining 3 did not offer me a bid. I really wanted to drop out of rush after the first round but my rush advisor told me that I might as well stick it out. In retrospect I should have listened to my gut, because it was pretty embarrassing to get rejected two years straight.

My best chance to join a sorority probably would have been junior year -- a new organization came to campus and began to recolonize that January. Unfortunately, I was studying abroad spring semester and missed out on the chance to be in the first pledge class. I think that GLO and I would have been a good fit, too.

By the time senior year rolled around, I gave no thought to even trying to pledge an existing sorority on campus -- what was the point, really? However, a group that had been at Duke up until a year or two before attempted a recolonization that Spring (in hindsight, it was WAY too soon) and myself, another senior gal and about 20 others started the process of becoming sisters. The recolonization was carried through until literally the day before we were to be pledged; the national organization decided not to proceed because (in their words) we didn't have enough women to make a go of it. When I look back, I think it was more the overall quality of the women they were leery of...as a group, appearance-wise, we were sort of a ragtag bunch. Perhaps I am making the situation into something more catty than it should be, but that's the only possible explanation I can come up with. It seems like 20 women should be enough to recolonize, am I right?

After the disappointment with this last GLO, the representatives from national told me and the other senior that they would be happy to give us alumni status (I assume this means AI). However, I contacted them several times after graduation and never received a reply. After that I forgot about sororities and got on with my adult life.

Skip ahead many years to my recent college reunion. I attended a party with two of my dear friends who were members of a now-defunct sorority at Duke. One of their sisters approached and said to all three of us, "Wow! XYZ (the sorority) had a great turnout this time! Aren't you all psyched?" She had NO recollection that I wasn't in their sorority! When I explained to her that I wasn't, she said that in her mind I'll always be an honorary member of XYZ because I hung out with so many people in the organization. I thought that was really sweet...and it got me thinking again about joining a sorority.

At this point in my life, with my child being a little older and more self-sufficient, I feel it's time for me to "get back out there", meet some new people and, most importantly, make myself useful in the community, Since for the past year I've been working part-time strictly from home, I don't get nearly as much "adult interaction" as I did when I was at an office. A few years back I was a member of another women's organization (non-Greek) that had some very worthwhile programs, it's just that none of them made enough of an impact on me to keep me interested in staying with the group. I made a couple of decent friendships there but, truth be told, in this group of about 125 women the average member age is between 55 and 60 and there are probably fewer than 10 that are under 45. Being a person who considers herself young at heart (and most people tell me I do look much younger than my actual age), I want to belong to a group that has a wider range of ages. I'm definitely not averse to associating with older women -- heck, one of my closest friends is in her mid-50s -- but I certainly don't want to be one of the youngest, either.

So that is my story. And to answer Susan's question, the NPC sorority that is of particular interest to me DOES have an alumni chapter in my area. If I decide to ultimately pursue AI I will likely only focus on that one organization...and if that doesn't work out I am more than willing to pursue membership in one of the non-collegiate groups such as ESA or Beta Sigma Phi.

Thank you all for your feedback. I really appreciate it!

dukemama

I'm gonna go ahead and say that until you started talking about the girl who wanted you to be an honorary member, I was thinking that you're the exact person that AI is NOT meant for. AI is not for people who failed at Rush. I'm not trying to be a bitch, I'm being honest. The fact that your friend approached you makes your situation a little different in my mind, although I still would say "PROCEED WITH CAUTION" as one of the first things that will be brought up in conversations with other alums is your failed recruitments. If your friend is willing to sponsor your (if that's how that GLO works), I would say to go for it. However, if that woman is not willing to, that changes things.

You should go back to that friend who said she always thought of you as an "honorary member" and tell her about what you've been thinking, if she is in the group you are interested in pursuing. Maybe if she knows of your interest, she can help you investigate options. This is really the best way to approach AI--she really gave you a door, now you need to let her know you're interested in walking through it.

Alphafrog and Heather --

I didn't mention in my previous post that the sister who approached me at the reunion was a member of a sorority that actually blackballed me when I rushed sophomore year. She was a junior that year and I'm surprised that she didn't remember that. Needless to say, I will never pursue AI status with them.

Alphafrog, I inferred from your message that I may look too desperate, given my past rushing history, to be an AI candidate. Perhaps the fact that I was blackballed from an NPC sorority automatically rules me out anyway. I'll fully admit that a small part of me wants to "redeem" myself, since I am hardly the same person I was in college. However, I'll take your advice to heart and if more people feel the same I'll go the non-collegiate route. As I said before, I have no reservations about becoming a sister in one of those groups.

Thanks ladies!

Honestly, that number depends upon the campus. I'm not familar with Duke's Greek system to say. I'm an advisor at a medium-sized campus and 20 might be enough there (KD recolonized 2 years ago, but I don't know how many they had). However, AGD recently recolonized at Ohio State, and we had more than 50 (can't recall the exact number off the top of my head :o ) in the first new member class. It just really depends upon the campus culture - at a school where the average chapter size is 150+, 20 ladies would probably not be enough to start out with.

Ooh...I feel your pain there! I've struck more of a balance now (partially because of getting involved as an advisor in my new community), but it was an adjustment at first. :)

Are you still located in the South? (You don't have to reveal specifics - was just curious as to whether you were still in the south.)

Blackballed??

Unless you did something incredibly heinous, or you're a felon or something, there's no way you can be "blackballed for life" from an NPC sorority. My best guess is that what you're talking about is that there was a member(s) in the collegiate chapter that you didn't get along with, so you were cut very quickly from their group and there were no doubts in your mind as to the reason you were cut. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If you're not willing to explore this route with your friend, despite a promising lead, due to the actions of the collegiate chapter, you're wasting the only appropriate route to AI you've got so far. AI is really an honor to be be offered to what the sorority deems as a worthy woman, and the process wasn't designed for people like yourself to seek it out of your own accord without prior contact (i.e. a close friend or family member) to a particular group.

If you still don't want to approach your friend, a non-collegiate sorority might be a better option for you.

Nope...in SE Pennsylvania where my hubby is from.

At this point, I think non-collegiate is your best option. (As far as I'm concerned) You don't have the right intentions to be a good NPC AI candidate.

No, I'm not an ex-con! LOL However, my freshman year roommate, with whom I did not have a good relationship, was a member of XYZ sorority and I found out later in my college career that she was the one who put the kibosh on my becoming a sister there.

Again, since I was blackballed from the Duke chapter I would not even attempt to pursue AI with them (I suspect national would have a way to check on that; correct me if I'm wrong). I do have friends who are alums of other NPCs and I can see if I can gently get some AI information from them. In the meantime, I probably will pursue a non-collegiate option.

Thanks!!!

I, for one, am GLAD I decided not to join a NPC group while in college. The selection process is a bunch of c***. Good Luck in whatever you choose to do Dukemama.

No - national does not have the name of every girl cut from rush.

Although I'm still sticking with encouraging the non-collegiate option.

Please, let's not generalize. I'm sure if you had joined you would find nothing wrong w/ the "bunch of crap" selection process.

Are you sure you want to go there on GC, where 75% of the posters gained membership in their GLO through that "crappy" selection process???

I absolutely disagree. I think her story is compelling. Things and people happen in our life that make being in a GLO not right at the time, but it doesn't mean we can't GROW and be a great member.

My newest "little sis" was initiated on her birthday. I won't say which one, but she was older than 30 :).

I am willing to talk with anyone interested in AI. (And those of you who were in a conversation with me before, please pm me....I had to drop off the face of the earth because of a family issue...which happily has improved so much...I am *back*)

Thanks for clarifiying that, Buttonz. I guess I did use the wrong terminology. I suppose that if the person 86ing me were a few years older I could have been extended a bid after she graduated, but no such luck!

Unfortunately, the woman who made the "honorary member" comment to me is not a close friend with whom I keep in regular contact. It would be highly unusual, to say the least, for her to get an e-mail from me inquiring about membership into XYZ and I'd be uncomfortable doing that. What I may do is ask my two close girlfriends who are also XYZ sisters for some advice on the subject -- I know they wouldn't hesitate to discuss it with me.

OK, I’ve got a few questions…

If you were friends with so many members of this sorority, so many to the point that a sister of it thought you were a member, what do you think caused you to get cut or as you say, “blackballed”? (These are 2 different things, one relatively innocuous, one not so much.) I know you can’t know for sure, but did you maybe have really bad grades that semester or something?

Did this group become defunct while you were still in school or shortly after? Were they struggling with numbers while you were an undergraduate?

That's a pretty huge generalization. First of all, each group has their own membership criteria. Second of all, the "selection process" is very different for the different types of recruitment (formal, informal, COB, etc.). (I say different because you have more time to get to know people during some of the less structured forms of recruitment - of course, the standards/criteria should be consistent among each type.)

Another thought that I had was about recommendation letters. I'm not familiar with the Greek system at Duke (technically its in the south, but I wouldn't necessarily think of it as a "Southern school") - are rec letters important when going through recruitment there? If so, did dukemama obtain them?

Recs weren't all that important on my campus, but I know that at some schools not having recs can pretty much guarantee getting cut hard.

As I said above, my freshman year roommate was the one who denied my membership in XYZ. She was pretty influential among her group of friends in the sorority and I know from my 2 close friends who are XYZ sisters that she initially rejected me for membership and got at least one or two other sisters to back her up (although I'm not sure I even knew any of them).

XYZ was still in existence for at least several years after I graduated. I'm not sure when they went inactive at Duke but I suspect it was sometime within the past 5-10 years. One of my XYZ friends told me the reason she thinks her sorority is now defunct at Duke but I won't mention it here. It has nothing to do with #s, however.

Ok, if I were you, I would stop giving details about "XYZ" - chances are, you've already given enough info that someone NPC savvy could tell you exactly what group you are talking about.

Duly noted!

3 votes out of a chapter of what, 100?

I don't know what other groups do, but my sorority most definitely does not vote like that.

I don't know the exact number of those who outrightly denied me membership. I know I had strong support from my 2 close friends. If I had to guess, I'd say the majority of the sisters had no opinion of me one way or the other. That's probably what tipped the scale in favor of their rejecting me once the "nay" votes were cast.

Since member selection is private and not really (supposed) to be discussed privately, its hard to say.

There was one particular NPC group that I really liked when I went through recruitment. I ended up getting cut there after 2nd round. At a Halloween party that year (not affiliated w/any Greek organization - I went with people from my dorm), I bumped into the girl who rushed me there. She and I had really clicked during rush. She was a little tipsy at the party, so she told me that she had wanted me as a little sister and was extremely upset when I was cut from recruitment. Being that she was a little tipsy, she also told me that it only takes one "no" vote in her group to cut a person, and one person had voted against me. I just shrugged it off and said that's okay, because I'm happy with where I ended up. (Which is very true :) )

One of my pledge sisters was also cut by this same group during rush. Her best friend from HS was in that chapter, and her friend also told her about the "one vote cut" thing. (We never actually figured out that the same info had been relayed to each of us until years later - its not something we discussed during our pledge term or anything like that.)

IDK but if you cut EVERY girl that got one no vote ? Doesn't seem statistically possible that you'd EVER get close to quota. :confused:

Well, in a typical recruitment, the PNM really only talks in depth with a few sisters, and the rest rely on those sisters' judgements. So if you really only have to get past a few sisters (and not commit any blatant public faux pas), then it's really not as bad as it sounds.

That's what I thought too, which is why I didn't give it a whole lot of thought until years later when another person said the same thing. Of course, if the one vote thing were correct, who knows the process that leads up to vote casting? I suppose I could imagine scenarios where there were PNMs that people were "on the fence about" and out of those it only took one "no"? Or where members were filtered out by other means (GPA, etc.) so not as many people came up for a vote? Its hard to say, and none of us...save those who are members of that group ;) ...will ever know for sure. One thing I do know - that group never had trouble making quota or staying darn close to chapter total, so whatever they did worked for them. :)

Membership selection is private. You can think what you want about being cut, but it's a private matter. Your friends who told you that it was one person who had it out for you could just be telling you that so there could be someone to blame.

As it has been said a million times on GC, AI is NOT intended for women who went through recruitment (once or multiple times), were cut, and now want to relive their college years. It's an honor that is supposed to be bestowed UPON you. You shouldn't be seeking it.

This would be your best bet if you're dead set on trying to run the AI gauntlet. Not all NPCs regularly (or ever) do AI, and even those that do have entire alumnae chapters who will not sponsor an alumnae candidate for initiation.

The ideal situation here would have been for you to have LOVED XYZ and your friends in the org so much that XYZ's the only group you would have been interested in for AI. That's not the case here, you named a different organization in your first post and specifically stated you did not want to try AI with XYZ. So here's where it stands, at least to me, right now...

- You really like the philanthropy of the organization you talked about in your first post. You don't know a soul in the org, but they have an alumni chapter in your area. Let's call them ABC
- You have good friends in XYZ, but you have your reservations about the organization due to your experiences in college.

If you were to pursue AI with ABC, you're treading into sticky territory both within GC and probably within the organization itself. You not knowing anyone in this org is a big sore spot here given some past threads about AI "sorority shoppers." ABC itself might not be open to you (with no contacts) introducing yourself, and that's the end of that. That said, you would be commended for trying for one group you really thought you'd like and not shopping around for a sorority -- any sorority -- that would initiate you.

Now, if you were to find that your channels to ABC were shut and only then did you turn to your good friends in XYZ in order to try AI with them...well, that would be sorority shopping, letter grabbing, whatever you want to call it (I'm not saying you're doing this, or you're thinking of doing this). Wanting a sorority experience is totally understandable, but community sororities can offer you the same kind of experience without the years-long process of AI.

Your best bet, at this point would probably be to try a community sorority in the here and now (Just like you said you were going to do!) Nothing about BSP etc. precludes you from holding membership in an NPC, and you might find that BSP et. al. offer you the kind of experience you've always wanted. Nothing's stopping you from finding out more about NPC groups through your friends -- maybe someday you'll go out with your two XYZ friends and a bunch of their XYZ alum friends and find that you click wonderfully with the women or whatever. Who knows?

I'm not saying that this would be a good reason to join, but I do know of a few women who joined BSPhi and through that org met NPC contacts and were invited by them to AI.

Actually, I did think of that as a possibility...but I'd consider it simply a bonus (if it ever happened) and it certainly wouldn't be among my top 100 reasons to join a non-collegiate sorority.

I think you're on to something here. I will give the non-collegiate route a try and let you know how it goes. Thanks for your thoughtful advice!

I think it's entirely possible for 3 girls to sway a chapter's decision. Without getting into my chapter's selection details, I will say that "influential" girls in the sorority can definitely make an impression during the recruitment process, even if it is just a select few.

We know who your little sister is.

You're the one who sponsors PNAMs you meet on GreekChat, right?