what do i have to give back?
 

I have decided I do not want to be intiated and have told my GM about this and she said she will talk to me later this week. I heard that you have to give some of your stuff back which is reasonable but I do want something to remember my sorority experience and i have paid alot in new member fees... what can i expect to give back? i know its different in every campus but i just wanted some opinions

what i have recieve is greek letters from big, dropped necklace (i'm pretty sure i have to give this back), tote bag, photo album, notepads, jacket, flip flops, stitch shirt, family stitch, another shirt i got on big/lil reveal day, bid day shirt, clues from big (some letters with symbol), a cup, picture frame, and other little things....

thank you in advance! oh and in case you were wondering i decided i did not want to be intiated due to some family disagreement about the use of my college money :(

You should elaborate on the clues from your big, but I would imagine that they would probably be something good to keep. I don't know how your school is, but I know a few girls at my school who depledged and stayed good friends with their bigs, so just make sure she knows it it's financial, not personal and that you really enjoyed your time with the chapter. It would be sad to lose potential friends just because of some money!

I think it varies from org to org, but the rule usually is that you have to give back anything that has letters, written words and/or the crest or coat of arms on it.

I don't know if we have an official rule, but I wish we did. If you don't, keep the picture frame or something. Give back any and everything you would wear that has any affiliation. I see de-pledged and de-activated sisters all the time wearing our stuff and it's really disappointing.

^^^^^That's what I thought!

If you are not a member why would you need/want things that represent something that you are not apart of? I am not trying to be mean, but why do you want it. Maybe you can take a few group pictures or something for memories.

Yeah you pretty much should give back everything, except for maybe the clues from your big.

I know you spent a lot of money as a new member, but everyone else is right...

All those gifts that you get from your big are really "sorority stuff" and since you'll no longer be a member, it wouldn't really be right for you to keep it. Keep pictures (not the frame), keep memories, keep letters, keep anything that was personalized to you as a friend outside of the context of your former sorority, but the right thing to do would be to give back everything else.

I personally would find it inappropriate if a new member of my org depledged and I later walked in her room to find that she had lettered AXO items around. Those items are privileges of membership. And think of it this way: by giving all your stuff back, you're helping out your friends in the chapter by allowing current or future member to enjoy them!

Also don't forget that what you paid also went into any events you were a part of, your nm education, and more. It didn't just go to sweatshirts and other possessions.

Everything.

Ok, this makes me mad... "I spent all of my $$ on letters, picture frames, paddles, etc and now I can't pay my dues." If you can't afford your dues, don't buy a bunch of extras, and then whine because you have to give them back. And if you personally didn't buy them, you definitely shouldn't keep them. The stuff was bought for you with the assumption that you would be a member for life.

I would agree that any lettered item should be returned. I do not mean this to sound harsh in any way, but if you are no longer going to be a member then you don't really have any use for the items. (It would be inappropriate to wear or display the letters.)

This especially holds true if any of the items were gifts from the chapter, your big, or other chapter members. (Given that you're having some financial difficulties yourself, certainly you can understand why your big might feel slighted after spending her own money on items with the assumption that you would initiate. The courteous thing to do would be to return any gifts to her - especially if any of them were items that had been handed down through your family tree in the chapter.)

Any non-lettered items would certainly be appropriate to keep as memories of your time in the chapter.

Also, I'm sure that you gave serious thought to your decision not to initiate, but I have one thing to mention in case its something that you haven't looked into. You mentioned that you had a family disagreement about the use of your money. My interpretation of this is that its not so much that you don't have funds available to you as it is that they don't approve of the way that you're budgeting those funds. Keep in mind that some GLOs do allow a new member to carry over and initiate in the next cycle. I do not know, of course, if this is a possibility in your organization. However, if you think there is a possibility that the disagreement with your family could be smoothed over by showing them that you can effectively budget your money over the next semester and you truly still do want to be a part of the chapter (if finances can be worked out), I would inquire with your chapter whether its possible to carry over.

(Again, I only recommend this course of action if you truly wish to be a member of the chapter and believe that you can make changes to your budgeting/spending that will help resolve the disagreement with your family. If you don't honestly believe that circumstances could be resolved with another semester, don't go this route - it won't do any good to string yourself or the chapter along. I only mentioned it because I wanted to make sure it was an option you had at least considered before leaving the chapter entirely.)

If you paid for the stuff and your chapter is requesting it back, insist that they pay you for it.

Sorry, it doesn't work like that.

She paid new member fees. New member fees do not include the things she mentioned. Any items that were bought by the chapter and distributed were paid for by the dues of the women who are already members.

This is a good point. If you paid for items yourself (but since you were a new member, I don't know how much of that you would have paid for) you have a right to ask for reimbursement for extras -- especially clothing -- that you paid for.

Unfortunately, anything you paid for out of your new member fees (this includes any books/manuals, your new member pin, your bid day shirt, etc) is considered official sorority property and you cannot be reimbursed for these items. In the case of your new member pin, for example, you don't really buy the pin from your sorority, rather, you rent it. Upon termination of your new member period (this should all be outlined in your national policies and local bylaws) you're required to relinquish all the stuff that you paid for out of official fees back to the sorority chapter.

Anything that has letters, name, etc. of the sorority is officially property of the sorority. This is something that would be in the bylaws and something you are supposed to be aware of once you start your involvement with the org. Legal action can technically pend should you not return the items and the sorority decides to persue it.

Sucks if you simply want "mementos" but really photos are the best mementos you can get, and those are not property of the sorority.

I agree and as others have said why do you want the stuff anyway? You obviously don't want to be part of the group.

If you're not in the sorority, I doubt you care much about bylaws. I'd say give back everything, but who cares, do whatever you want.

This is a little harsh, she said her reasoning for not being initiated is monetary, not lack of want.
That being said, the bottom line is if it has letters then you can't have it. You can handle the returning of it however you want but think about how you want to be remembered by these girls -do whatever you do in the most tactful and respectful manner possible. Remember that this is the place where these girls have pledged their hearts and things that you may have been given are more than just stuff with Greek letters on them.

Perhaps you would feel better if you gave the stuff to your big sister or pledge sisters - it would have a home with initiated sisters, and they would have a nice remembrance of you .

Sororities don't have optional t-shirts which can, but may not be purchased (purely at the individual's discretion)? Pledges can't go out and buy license plate frames, lettered sweatshirts, etc. on their own?

I'd have to look, but my organization does require that we reimburse for any items which we request be returned under circumstances such as these... but maybe your organizations support the confiscation of private property...?

I'm sorry, but the sorority can't go into the greek life store on campus and walk out with whatever they please because it's "their property" and their bylaws say they can do that.

Sure, there are things which were provided to you 'on loan' from your chapter, but there are also things you've paid for individually. It's important to understand the distinction because your chapters have no business demanding the return (without paying them back) of things which were purchased with individual new members' money and not provided by the chapter's funds/resources.

The legal action thing is funny though. Would your chapter really spend the money to file a lawsuit in small claims court to get back a new member pin, some t-shirts and books? Doubtful.

As you should have learned from all the discussions about letters on here, no, sometimes they can't.

But I would have to question someone who bought a ton of stuff you don't HAVE to buy and then pleads monetary reasons for not initiating.

At any rate, it's a moot point since it sounds like most of the things were either given to her by the chapter or by her big/family.

For the sake of argument/clarity though -- let's say that after she pledged, she went down to the campus greek life shop and bought two of everything, loaded 'em into the back of her pickup and used it to build a shrine to her sorority in her dorm room.

Would the sorority be requesting that she turn in all of that stuff as well? Or only the items which were provided on the organization's dime?

-- and I know you've done chapter adviser work, so you of all people should know that college freshmen (and college kids in general) are really terrible with money. How many brothers/sisters do we all know who were constantly late on their dues, but always managed to have enough money to pay $100+ bar tabs?

I know that sometimes when we terminated people, we did buy back "big ticket" things like their jackets. We then, of course, sold them to another pledge/sister. Really, it sometimes depends on the person, and in this case, I wouldn't be very forgiving. It doesn't sound as though she's looked into payment plans or been very responsible. That's part of being in a sorority. You don't get a pass because gosh shucks, you're just an irresponsible college kid.

Oh, and we didn't waste $100 on bar tabs. We drank quarter drafts.

Yes, we would absolutely request and require that she turn everything in. It's a buy at your own risk-type thing. If you don't think you're going to be an ASA for life, don't buy the stuff.

Ah ok.. just so you know, if you took that one to court, you'd lose. There is simply no law that says you have to return merchandise to a sorority if you cease to be associated with that group.

[that's not legal advice]

But it's an honor system thing, so I get it.

not that active members would disclose this to NMs, but dont "gifts" to NMs tend to come out of NM fees? of course it covers the NME and activities, but i do recall somewhere it could pay for "gifts" (i quote it because essentially you, as an NM would pay for your own stuff... which leads me to say - "hey give the girl her money back!")

on the other hand, seriously no deal - you cant be keeping letters that are not yours. if it is truly a decision of "i can't afford dues," then she should have no problem being initiated the next semester (now whether she'd be eligible for rush again, or if the chapter would even pick her again... who knows)


so yeah - if the gifts came out of NM fees, she should get it back. if she paid out of pocket... technically its hers, but i would equate it to a perp owning para. sort of like how people buy para before they cross (which is always bad karma, to say the least)...


hmm. one of many reasons why im no big fan of freshmen joining sororities...

Typically, girls get "goody bags" on bid day that have t-shirts, pins, notepads etc. Obviously when a woman receives a bid, she has a certain number of days/weeks to pay the NM fee - you don't bar the door to the house and say "OK, we gave you your bid - now cough up the money immediately!"

So if you want to get technical, no, the fees SHE pays didn't go towards the items she receives on bid day, unless you have a Greek store that has no problem extending you lots and lots of credit. Her presents from the sorority are paid for with money that is already in the sorority's account.

I realize there's no legal basis to it, and "honor system" is a pretty fair description. Don't think we haven't gone to someone's dorm/apt though and told us that we needed our stuff back, though.;)

I can't speak for all GLOs, of course, but I know that NM fees in my chapter went to things like Panhellenic new member dues (the per member fee that Panhel requires of each chapter), training materials (for example, workbooks w/fraternity history), social events (that the NM would typically be participating in), some meals at the house, etc.

Typically gifts were given from the sister-mother (or "big" to use other GLO terminology) to the sister-daughter ("little") and paid for out of the sister-mother's pocket. There may have been a very few token items purchased by the chapter (ex - a Bid Day shirt), but by and large the gifts came from the sister-mother.

Give everything to your Big or split it up and give a little to each of the people you're closest to. I don't think anyone can force you to give it up but it's the right thing to do. Leave them with a high opinion of you.

My chapter too.

Along with one of the other posters, I hope the OP really thinks through the decision and see what other options she has. If she does decide to drop out, it is better to do it before initiation.

I never remember this happening with my chapter: I suspect we would have really wanted the new member pin, but the gifts that she would have been given as a pledge would also be, for the most part, things that wouldn't have been really for members only: we let dates wear letters on date night shirts; surely anyone could write on a lettered notepad. It'd be weird for a non-member to buy these kinds of things, but anyone could.

I agree that it's an honor system. I think that the OP, no matter what she is able to keep, should be aware that she shouldn't not wear or use any of the items once she gives up membership. If she decides not to join, she shouldn't present herself as a member or affiliated.

Unless you signed a paper saying that you would which is not as uncommon as you think.

My chapter usually will do a buy-back so the person can at least get some money back for what they purchased.

I just don't see why anyone would want something that does not represent them. If she is not going to be a member then why does she need the para.

When my last sis-dot depledged, it was really hard because she was a very enthusiastic NM that jumped at every chance to get involved. She DP-ed because her family (who initially helped to support her AGD finances) ran into some financial trouble back home. She was heartbroken and didn't want to DP, but she really had no choice.

She asked me the same question and I told her that she needed to turn in her pledge pin and NM manual/workbook. She was welcome to keep the gifts I gave her in addition to the stuff she got on Bid Night as long as she agreed not to falsely represent herself as an AGD.

I knew that she was an honest person who we could trust, and I had no problem letting her keep the stuff. Even though she's since moved back to San Diego, we still keep in touch to this day. She keeps her AGD stuff in keepsake box that she brings out from time to time. It's nice knowing that she can still fondly look back at her short time as an AGD New Member.

So..while I can see the reasoning behind giving the lettered things back, I really think it depends on the circumstances of the DP and what kind of person he/she is.

I agree completely. If a person were asked to leave because she violated the ideals of the group, then I think the group should work hard to get whatever lettered stuff back that it can. If they need to buy stuff back, it's worth it.

On the other hand, when a girl of good character who the group would love to keep has to drop, it's hard to see the harm in letting her keep GLO items, with the exception of the pin and the manuals, especially things she received before initiation when she wasn't fully a member anyway.

When the dropping seems purely financial, it seems like we should start a program of short term grants within the fraternity, maybe each alumnae chapter could fund a few each year.

I hear your concern, but what about a PNM is not dropping for serious reasons. There are too many 'what ifs' don't you agree? So I would think that every PNM that does not become a member should turn over all of thier stuff to prevent the judging of wether or not a PNM is sincere or not.

I guess it is hard for me to understand since we do not get ANYTHING until after we are members.

Honestly I don't think we've asked for items back when a member decided to drop...EXCEPT the new member pin or badge. I sometimes wish we did, not because they left, but because I feel like I earn my letters every day that I am an Alpha Gam (or try to, on bad days), and if they are no longer sisters, they do not.

I'd give stuff your big bought you back to her...or if she doesn't want it, give it to favorite pledge sisters. Any article of clothing should be given back...it would be fair to ask for compensation. Maybe ask if you can keep a picture frame with pictures...that reminds you of your time as a new member, but then you aren't claiming to be something you're not. I don't personally see a problem with keeping a picture frame or something small like that that is just going to be in your room.