Chapter V. National/International
 

I started this thread so that I would not disrupt the 'How big are you thread'.

So I want to know:

How could one not care about the national/international org or care less about it over their undergraduate chapter? So when you (whomever) are going through your rush or process is there no or little thought placed in what is this organization doing as a whole or is it what is this chapter doing? Sorry, I am lost about the whole chapter ovre national/international thing. I care more about the international body of AKA versus any chapter because AKA is greater than any individual chapter. And in case anyone is wondering I am an undergraduate, so I am not looking at this from a graduate level.

My response comes from the NPC p.o.v., but here goes.......

Well, when I was going through the NPC recruitment process at university, I did give some thought to "where does my org possibly have alumnae chapters in other cities?", because I knew that after university, I would want to live in a few different cities, for personal and professional development. Alumnae Chapters are a good way to make friends, if you know few people or no one in that city.

Later one, when I did become an NPC member, I did live in one city where we had no alumnae chapter, but by virtue of being "Greek", I was able to befriend other NPC alumnae women as well as a handful of alumnae from my GLO (though we had no established alumnae group), and the other NPC women did make a point of "taking me under their wing" which was appreciated).

That being said, my opinion is that, I think that for some people in their 20s who are going through collegiate rush/recruitment, I think it's difficult for them to envision what "down the road" alumnae life will bring. It's more important in the context of the time and lifeperiod for them to be more concerned with the collegiate chapter.

Perhaps prospective NPHC collegiate members give more thought to the long term picture, because from what I've learned on this GC board, the NPHC members seem to emphasize more lifelong & community involvement with their respective GLOs. Also, NPHC prospective members know that they should do their research and pursue just one group, so I think the whole intake process is more much thoughtful and introspective, than NPC Formal Recruitment where a potential new member must visit each group at least once.

Thanks CutiePie. I guess that is just a NPC/NPHC difference.

When I joined as an undergrad, I couldn't have told you if my organization had two chapters or two thousand. What mattered to me was that I was happy with my sisters. After graduation however, I've really come to care much more about us on an international level. I would like my chapter to do well, but if they weren't I wouldn't be crushed. I'd much rather see us do well as a whole group. I'm not sure how I got to this point though. Maybe after I moved away from my university, I was able to see how much I love my sisters and Alpha Phi in general, not just in RI.

I think a big part of it we aren't raised with an expectation of joining a specific group. My mom's an ADPi. She wanted me to go through recruitment but didn't expect me to a) know what group I wanted already and b) join ADPi. I see a lot of NPHC members saying that they'll only support their daughter/son if he or she joins their org.

I certainly took into consideration what our national organization did as a philanthropy. But I didn't really learn any of that until recruitment. I flipped through the national websites once before hand, maybe. However what I really was looking for was the sisterhood. And that is where the chapter was important over the national organization.

I see the differences like this (please correct me if I'm wrong):
NPC-Rush multiple chapters, Join One, Dedicated primarily to your chapter, Graduate, Become active as an alumna for your organization as a whole or become inactive.

NPHC - Persue one chapter, Join one chapter, dedicated on local and national level, graduate, Remain active or become inactive

(Assumption that if you join as a graduate you'll stay active whether NPHC or NPC)

I think we both end up in the same place if that makes sense.

I think, in most ways, the NPC groups are, on an inter/national level, more similar than different. All of them have the same basic focal points of sisterhood, philanthropy, leadership and scholarship. The specifics of the philanthropy vary, most definitely, but overall, they are more similar than different. Some groups are stronger in the South, some are more numerous in the North. And, the way our recruitment process works, it does encourage women to look at the individual chapter rather than the whole organization.

In Michigan, we have a statewide luncheon for our International Reunion Day (our version of a Founder's Day) and this is generally a young woman's first exposure to other chapters, alumnae from other chapters, etc. The young women often walk away from that with a new sense of a bigger organization than their chapter. When you REALLY see that is when young women attend our leadership conferences or, even moreso, our Convention. Unfortunately, those are usually only the Presidents. They get a big understanding of how big this thing we're in truly is. When we get to the part at Convention where they honor the woman in attendance who has attended the most Conventions, and it is someone who has been to 25, 26, 27 Conventions, you really see their jaws drop. It is also when they meet a lot of volunteers at the higher levels and find out that these are women who love the Fraternity so much that they've dedicated unending hours to it and it inspires them.

Let me throw this into the mix....

Some NPHC members DEFINITELY care more about their chapters. It depends on the person and the chapter, but I think it relates less to recruitment and rush and more about their level of activity once they graduate and what sort of brotherly or sisterly relations they have with people outside their chapter.

I was the exact opposite -- but then again, that's what happens when your chapter's the only NPC on campus and we're located smack dab in the middle of the Pacific Ocean and the nearest chapter is a 5 hour flight away.

Whenever rush comes around, the fact that we ARE international is one of our biggest selling points. I knew that the resources the Fraternity could provide me numbered more than that of the ones of the local sororities on campus.

Our span of chapters goes from Hawaii to Nova Scotia...however it wasn't until I attended my first International Convention in 2001 that I was able to witness firsthand the enormity of it all.

And to echo what AGDee said -- I was one of the "jaw-droppers" at Convention when I met Jane Graf for the first time. Conventions just won't be the same without her. :(

At the 2004 Convention, I quickly did the math to see if I had a chance to make it to that many Conventions. I won't live that long... (I've only attended 4 so far, San Antonio will be 5 and I don't see living another 40+ years)

I think this is true, BUT I don't think that you see members joining an org because of the chapter very often. It isn't common that someone will arrive on campus and make their decision based on whether they like the local chapter of Delta or AKA best. Now, you will have some members who, AFTER that point, will be very dedicated to their chapter, moreso than the national org, but it's not the same as choosing your org based on the local chapter. I just don't see that happening very often, in my (admittedly limited) experience.

I agree 100%...if for some reason my undergrad chapter hadn't selected me or if there was no Delta chapter at my school, I would have waited and persued DST at the grad level...no other org was an option...the activities of Delta in the community that I witnessed from a young age shaped my desire to pursue membership though..so I guess you can say that the inter./national misson of the organization influenced my interest and my decision...

Hey Sisterfriend!!!
That is exactly how I felt, but about AKA. I had interaction with members at an early age and their influence taught me that it was moreso about the ogrganization rather than a chapter.

I'm not knocking how other people choose their orgs, but I would rather pursue Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Incorporated rather an undergraduate chapter that I would only be involved in for a year or two.

Exactly. Once I decided that Delta was what I wanted, then nothing else would have been right. There are a lot of wonderful sororities, and I have much love and respect for them, but my research kept pointing me toward Delta.

I'm getting all emotional now, thinking about all of that ... :o

Many of the NPC organizations have very similar foundations...basically, we all strive to be good people and good sisters/brothers. When I was going through rush I had five options. My mom was interested in me going Chi O because of the national reputation, and while that is an important factor in the decision, I chose to be sisters with the girls that I fit in with the best.

NPC Recruitment itself is more about chapters than organizations. It doesn't bother me, because I think all 26 are good organizations on national/international levels, so you can't go wrong. NPHC is structured much differently. It is admirable to join the organization instead of the chapter when they are so different...it's just that I think for most NPCs we really aren't that different on the basic level.

I joined a sorority to have friends for college. I wasn't thinking much about afterwards. I think that's common and it is one drawback of the way NPC recruitment is run. But I love Alpha Gam because of the girls who are AGDs...I wouldn't last through college if I joined a chapter that I did not fit in, just for the benefit afterwords. It's short sighted, but college is hard enough as it is.

Yes. Until/unless this changes, the majority of NPC alums, if you ask them, will hold more affection for their chapter than their national organization.

I joined ASA because of the women I met during rush. If those women had been ZTAs, I would have joined ZTA. If they had been ASTs, I would have joined AST. I could have cared less about philanthropy or networking or alumnae involvement. I chose women who I liked, who I thought liked me (I was right, LOL) and who hopefully would be my friends for the rest of my life.

And guess what? They still are. If I had joined because of a philanthropy or because of the national strength of the group, I don't know if that would be the case.

There's something I see a lot in the NPHC forums when women bring up problems they are having with a certain person in the chapter - "see to the business of {insert sorority name here}" and don't let your personal feelings get in the way. I think because the women and men who started the NPHC groups had to go through SO much to get there, they're not going to let petty BS get in the way of the mission they have to accomplish.

Not that NPC groups DO let petty BS get in the way, but I don't think the same kind of responsibility to a community as a whole that is felt by the NPHC groups is there.

Considering recent activity, I'd say that the above is 100% true with me.

OMG! the total opposite is true for me! My chapter can come and go but Phi Mu is so much bigger than my chapter!
If my chapter wasn't there it would be because of ...Whatever reason you can throw at me violently out of anger.

However, for those who are SLOW THIS IS MY POINT COMING UP:
I'd still be a Phi Mu. <---- (MY POINT RIGHT THERE!!!! WOW! YAY!)
My littles would still mean the world to me.
I'd still seek out an alumnae chapter (as I will be doing soon after graduation!).

Having been to 2 State Days and the Southeastern Panhellenic Conference and meeting former and current national president's of various orgs. (including my own and Theta Phi Alpha's-I love that woman! FOR CLARIFICAION FOR THOSE WHO ARE LOST-these women are NOT my best friends!)
I know that I could work for my nationals and contribute far more there and with other chapters than I can do in my own because I only have 21/2 years in my chapter, but a lifetime to give back to all of them.

I chose my org. for the history and beliefs and symbos as much as I did the women. The girls brought me in and Mary, Mary, and Martha sealed the deal.

WOW.

I bet your thisclose second choice is saying "WHEW" right now.

Exactly what I was thinking.

I didn't have much of a choice. My first semester in school, there was only one sorority on campus, and for the specific reason that I DIDNT have a choice - it was them, or nobody, I didn't join. Even though the girls in the chapter at that time were nice enough to me, I had other things going on in my life that it felt retarded to me to join the single sorority on campus for the sheer fact of "if you want to join a sorority, we're you're only option. Deal with it." No, they never actually said that - but me knowing that they were my only choice made me not want too join.

My second semester in school, Alpha Xi Delta colonized and I became a part of it. Did I join for the chapter? Nope, there was no chapter. At the time, I DID join for what it (the organization as a whole) could offer me, in the big scheme of things. However, once we got things off the ground and running, I become incredibly devoted to my chapter. On a national level, I went to my first convention as delegate a year after we installed. I began to meet sisters from the other state of GA chapters, due to regional officer training, and state day (which is our founders day celebration). I began to learn what Alpha Xi Delta was on a larger scale, but as an undergraduate, my devotion was to my chapter.

Since I am an older member, one of the alumnae associations has invited me to alot of their events they've held this year - I went to one last week. It sorta depresses me when I go to hang out with them, and realize I'm STILL older than half the women in the room! But - I have fun, and I enjoy meeting sisters who arent from my own chapter and having a good time with them. I'll always be devoted to MY chapter - but I'm finally beginning to experience the "big picture" part of it as well.

I think you ladies misunderstood me. I meant that if in the furture my chapter wasn't there, it would be due to something internal, whatever would be going on as that is normally why chapters close. I didn't mean I wouldn't care at all, I only meant that if they HAD to close for whatever reason, it would most likely be bad and deserved. I'm not saying they are closing or are doing anything wrong now! DO NOT OVERREAD! LOL!

I understood what you meant. Because I feel that personally, I have busted my butt the past 3 years to keeep my chapter going since our colonization and installation. I've done everything I could on a local level. If once I graduate, something were to happen (but it's totally not), there's nothing more I can do other than be a supportive alumna.

There's no overreading involved. You're just automatically assuming that if your chapter was closed (God forbid), that it would be because of something your chapter sisters did. You're assuming the worst of people who are supposed to be your best friends, which I find absolutely disgusting.

Chapters close for LOTS of reasons and not all of them are due to internal strife or policy violations. New policies regarding Greek life that harm chapters, housing issues, new colonies coming on campus...there are as many reasons as there are chapters. Please talk to some of those national presidents who are your BFFs, I'm sure they could fill you in.

sweetie, why do you assume i meant people i know within my chapter? I'm talking about beign attached to the chapter more than the national to the point where if 10 years down the road the chapter is doing god-know-what then it's not a HUGE loss because I don't put my chapter before all because I'm not crazy obssessed alumna.

You obviously don't understand what I'm saying, because you are talking about a COMPLETELY different scenario then I am and it's the internet so no amount of typing that I can do can make you because you've taken my words and run...

But I can very clearly tell you that you aren't thinking the same scenario that I was trying to describe and leave it at that.

I think most PNMs go thorugh recruitment knowing that any of the NPC GLOs offer benefits because of their national/international presence. When I went through rush, Gamma Phi Beta was my second choice (!), and one reason was because I did not know of it nationally. During my collegiate days I loved my chapter, just as I love my immediate family - they are the ones I know best. I've come to think of other NPC members as my cousins - not as close as sisters, but still related and beloved.
Once I graduated and became involved in Alumnae Panhellenics (which I strongly advise for all alumnae!) I learned of Gamma Phi Beta's international presence and reputation. That was a pleasant surprise - and since my chapter closed, I have devoted myself to advancing the NPC system through my work with Alumnae Panhellenic. I've also been a chapter advisor, and of course do everything I can to support Gamma Phi Beta in particular.
As an aside, my chapter was closed not due to anything the members did or were. They were fantastic girls - we had the winner of the Outstanding Senior Woman award twice in three years, for example. But housing concerns and lower numbers meant they simply could not compete against better housed, larger groups. One reason I loved my chapter was because I love my alma mater. Not having a chapter at the school I am so fond of is sad for me. I'd love nothing better than to see it come back on campus. That's my somewhat selfish wish.
But here and now, I want to do all I can to encourage local girls to go through recruitment and share the joys of membership to any of the fine NPC GLOs. It's possible to love both - your chapter and your national/international GLO. The loves may be a little different, but that's okay!

I understand what you're saying, although I can see where others would take it differently.

I feel somewhat the same, but I'd be pissed if the girls in my chapter did something to close my alum chapter. (like getting shut down for behavior or hazing or if they stopped caring about recruiting... not if it's something they can't help)

Being that I live so close to my alum chapter and still attend recruitment and some Greek Week events, I still kind of hold my chapter as more important. This used to totally be the case, until I attended regional leadership conferences and saw what Phi Mu was as a whole. Plus meeting Kathy Williams (past Natl President) gave me a whole new perspective of being a Phi Mu and made me see that the National level was just as important. Robin Fanning (current Natl President) has made me feel proud to be a member of my local chapter because not many sisters can say that their Natl Pres chartered their chapter and used to be their advisor. These two higher up Phi Mus give me different reasons to hold the local and National levels to similar importance.

wow, you keep digging your hole bigger.

All I know is if anyone in my chapter, or any of my sisters in ANY chapter for that matter, would have spoken as callously as you did for no reason whatsoever, I would be extremely hurt. I'm not saying back up your chapter if they act like a bunch of a-holes - there are times when some of the actives in my chapter made me want to tear my hair out. However, to automatically assume that any time a chapter closes it's entirely the fault of the active chapter alone is just not the truth.

I think it's a sensitive subject for some who have been undergraduates (or recent grads) when their chapters were closed.

If I'm not mistaken, she is relatively new so I don't think she knows of all the other reasons for a chapter getting shut down, such as housing and filling membership totals. I didn't know any of this before Greekchat because we don't have houses or a numbers problem so back then I just assumed that you could only close for bad behavior or hazing.

What the hell is your problem?

Quit post stalking me, and quit acting like I'm not allowed to offer an opinion because my chapter closed. Or maybe it's because I'm not from a good southern sorority.

Anyone who would say, in effect, that they don't care if their chapter closes and that if it does it's 100% because the actives screwed up, has a lot to learn. There are plenty of people on here whose chapters closed who could tell you differently.

I have no problem with saying you feel more attached nationally than locally - there are lots of people who didn't have a great collegiate experience and then reconnect as alums and as national volunteers. I have a HUGE problem with someone who says that the thing that brought her to that point - her local chapter - is as disposable as a Kleenex as far as she's concerned.

Yikes! :confused:

My loyalties lie with my chapter and my sisters from my chapter. Most of my best friends were met in my sorority. In fact, I'm going on vacation with 5 other sisters in June.
Based on my personal experiences, I won't donate time or money to our HQ. I wholeheartedly believe in and live by the ideals of Phi Mu, but I do not agree with some of the decisions that have been made by TPTB in the recent past. I will gladly donate time and money to my chapter, however.
Oftentimes, chapters do not close "because it's their fault". There are many other reasons.

What is TPTB? I'm curious what decisions you don't agree with. You can PM me if you want.

The Powers That Be. :) aka, in your case, the Big Lionesses.

Ahh I see. Lol that's what I thought, just wanted to be sure.

I like how you said that! It's how I feel about it too...it took me past freshman year to get over rivalries and such but that's how I feel about the other organizations now...I have respect for them all.

I actually did pay a bit of attention to the differences between the national organizations of the chapters on my campus when I joined my chapter. My interest level in one chapter diminished when I discovered that the organization didn't have a strong base in my region of the country. I didn't think I would be able to receive as many benefits or be as involved as an alum b/c the group had very few chapters in the northeast.

As of right now I have a much stronger allegiance to my national organization than my chapter but that was not really the case until I became an alumnae volunteer. Being involved at the national level first through attending convention and then by volunteering helped me really understand the scope my organization.

Now that's the truth, unfortunately.

Senusret I & Ladygreek

I agree that is is likely (and has happened in NPHC) but I just thought it was a strange concept to seek an organization that has a national or international presence based on a chapter. Many people posting to this thread are saying (correct me if I am wrong) they chose the chapter and grew to love the entire org versus embracing the organization and joining the chapter.