GEORGE IS THE PRESIDENT ELECT!!!!
 

Bush-Cheney win!!!!!

Woo Hoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The state of
Texas, under the leadership of
Governor George W. Bush,
is
ranked:

50th in spending for teachers' salaries
49th in spending
on the environment
48th in per-capita funding for public health
47th in
delivery of social services
42nd in child-support collections
41st in
per-capita spending on public education

And ...

5th in percentage
of population living in poverty
1st in air and water pollution
1st in
percentage of poor working parents without insurance
1st in percentage of
children without health insurance
1st in executions (average 1 every 2 weeks
for Bush's 5 years as Governor

Well....

I don't see anything to be happy about...

thank goodness they're recounting the ballots in florida.... this might not be over yet... those texas numbers are SCARY!!!

I'm very glad they are recounting the votes. If Bush becomes president, I will genuinely be scared, not that I'm a Gore supporter, but the idea of Bush ultimatly scares the socks off of me.

As usual statistics do not lie, but they can be manipulated! I have an undergrad in psych, and a masters degree which both required me to eat, live, sleep, and breathe statistics for 6 years straight. Here's an example of the numbers in relationship to child insurance - Texas is a border state. How many illegal immigrants come into Texas and set up housing somewhere and go unnoticed by anyone? Then one day their child gets sick, and they take him or her to the local hospital --- where, it turns out, the child has no health insurance. Of course he doesn't - his family is living here illegally which makes it pretty hard to have insurance. So the stats are correct when they read 1st w/out child health insurance - but they have been manipulated by not revealing the whole truth. Just rattling off a statistic here and there is pointless unless you know all the factors. It's like judging a book by its cover - the title may sound great and wonderful, but the material behind it may suck.

Here's another point...who is producing these statistics? Last I checked there was no National Truth in Statistics Board that published unbiased stats on every topic. Everyone has an agenda - depending on that agenda is the way the stats will read. Who paid for the research? Who will gain from it? Many times education proponents who need more money for whatever purpose will not just say "we need 10 more classrooms" - that may get them the $$$ they need but no more. So instead they'll say "15% of our children have to stand up in class because there aren't enough chairs for them." And then we all ooh-and-ahh over this tragedy (of course - who wants our kids standing up). But then when you look into it, you may see that the 15% doesn't just include one school, or district, or even county. For all we know it could include an entire state, which would be true to the stats (but not necessarily that the kids in my county are standing up). So then our local taxes go up to pay for something that may not truly be affecting us (on the local level).

So you have to know the whole story before you can be swayed by statistics. Have your opinion - but it should be an educated one that has formed as a result of knowing the issues and how they will affect you and your community personally.

As far as the election goes - I think it says a lot that Al had already conceded to George, and then recanted. I will say that regardless of the winner, I am anxiously awaiting the Constitutional Amendment that will abolish the Electoral College. I have never met anyone who approved of our current process, and would be happy to hear from anyone that does. I think it should be the popular vote. The voice of the people.

Anyway ............. Bush IS very COCKY, to say the least and he takes to much PRIDE and JOY in his death penalty state, he smiles at the mere mention of execution, and government mandated death is a very scary thing. He does not care about African Americans and affirmative action, look at how he treated the Byrd family!!! Now, I am a Christian black women with high ethical and moral standards, and don't want to bring any one persons name down, as a matter of fact none of these candidates (including stupid Nader) are God's gift to us, but George W Bush is the devil. And of course that is just MY honest opinion ....take it or leave it, but Gore Supporters please pray and make this thing turn out RIGHT!!!!

I don't understand why people continue to think that Al Gore is against the death penalty - HE IS NOT and this was stated numerous times throughout the campaign. I am very strong in my opinion of the death penalty: You do the crime, you pay the price! It is true - there is no justice in the death penalty because a murderer who takes the life of another person, especially in the most heinous of crimes, deserves to be put to death in the same manner. But until people realize that murderers have NO rights the death penalty is the closest thing to justice we have. Who wants to stand here and tell those families in Oklahoma that the bombers that destroyed their life, don't deserve to die? What about 12 year old Polly Klaas' family - she was raped and murdered by a convicted and released child molestor - oh yeah - he was reformed! Whatever! And I am a Christian with strong ethical and moral values which is why I voted for Bush. I could never with a clear conscience vote for a man who tells me the life of a child in the womb is disposable (i.e., Al Gore) - that IN MY OPINION is the devil at hand. No - Gore is not the devil, and I do not resort to labeling that serious of a term onto people.

How, you may ask, is it possible to be pro-life and be pro-death penalty? Its a matter of innocence and guilt!

And we have all heard the statistics before too! What experience have you had with statistical research? I have had enough to know that the stats that are turned out don't make it the gospel truth. And speaking of gospel truth - in my Bible, Jesus tells his followers to obey the laws of man while serving Him. (Give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's.....) I've stated WHY I believe Bush is the best choice based on the ISSUES - I have not resorted to name calling (what is up with this Dubya thing?) and I have not based my opinion on things like "Bush blinks too much" - who cares? The issues are what matter. It is out of all of our hands now. What's done is done since the voting is over. Let them count the vote and determine the winner whether Gore or Bush. You have been on me about this from the other thread because heaven forbid someone disagree with you and back it up with FACTS! If Gore is elected, then I will continue to be strong to my party and make him follow through on his promises to the people (especially the senior citizens). I will not move to another country, and I won't lay in bed crying over it. And I specifically stated before that I think regardless of the winner the electoral college should be dissolved. It should be popular vote.

So you, Little32, should have no more questions for me since you have seen why I feel as strongly as I do based on my opinion which is based on my interpretation of the issues. If so, please email me directly so we don't have to go through our philosophical differences in the public forum.

"I have an undergrad in psych, and a masters degree which both required me to eat, live, sleep, and breathe statistics for 6 years straight."

I don't have the time or the inclination to get into a "look at me, I eat statistics and studied this or that more than you..nah nah nah nah nah" debate. I just put it out there for you and anyone else out there reading these boards to see. End of story.

If you DON'T think that Jeb had a hand in the politiking going on in Florida...PLEASE take your blinders off. Hey but if you choose not to...that's okay too. I'm not in here to sway anybody's opinion.

And lastly G-Dub---Dubya---whatever you want to call him (and Dubya is the way that ol' Georgey boy says his own middle name, HE SAID IT I DIDN'T hahahahahahahahaha) IMHO is not the right man to lead my country. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

AXO Alum,
I did not expect that you would get so hot and bothered. That is a question that I ask of any and all Christians who believe in the death penalty and I have received a variety of responses. It was really a rhetorical question. I don't wish to debate religion with you so I will leave it at that.

I truthfully don't wish to email you privately concerning anything. I don't have much experience with statistics, but we all have heard how easily they can be manipulated to paint just about any picture you want. I was merely saying that everyone knows that statistics should be taken with a grain of salt and they are not gospel.

Dubya (W) is a term that has been widely used by the press to refer to George's middle name. I like it, I think it fits, I use it.

Yes, we had a debate on the other thread, but I, from my end, took it as a civilized discussion. It is not my fault that you choose to get worked up over the comments of an individual that you don't know at all. Just as you are allowed your opinion, I am allowed mine and just because we disagree does not mean that I am attacking you as a human being. I DON'T KNOW YOU. YOU DONT'T KNOW ME. Why in the world should my comments either way matter so much to you.

[This message has been edited by Little32 (edited November 08, 2000).]

Howdy,

Let's all stick to discussing the topic in a civilized manner, ok? Thanks!

Your Moderator,
ZetaAce

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FinerWomanhood: Learn it, Live it, Love it!

well, at this point, I don't care if tweedle dee or tweedle dum win. They are both the same to me. I voted Nader, and I'm glad I voted my concious.

We are living through history here. It's pretty cool if you think about it. This election will go down as one of the most historic because of the Pat B. incident in FL. How many people walked in and thought they were voting for Gore, when they actully got confuzzled and voted for Pat? Years down the road it will still be argued who should have won because we will never really know how many of those votes should have gone to, Gore or Pat.

Another thing, electoral college. Polls--which we hate, but CAN have some truth to them--say that in the 1960's 58% of the people wanted to do away with it, 1970's 61%, 1981--75%. Now. . .if 75% of the american citizens wanted to do away with the electoral college in 1981--why is it still around? It PROVES that washington doesn't give a damn what the people want.

"It PROVES that washington doesn't give a damn what the people want."
I totally agree with that comment, mgdzkm433. In some ways, I don't even know why we bother to vote for who we think is going to listen to us. They never do listen. There are very few politicians out there who listen to what the people have to say and make their decisions based on that. Most politicians make their decisions based on what's good for themselves.

McCoyred,

It has happened in the past that a president won the electoral vote but did not have a maojority vote. That's why this electoral college crap stinks! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif

There used to be a cool class here called: How to lie with statistics. . .

I'm not a Bush supporter but it may be unfair to lambast him for some of the problems he no doubt inherited in his state.

It would be better to analyze the steps he took to change the problems and whether those steps had impact.

I also was a Nader supporter . . .

Isn't it ironic that in all of the 50 states of this union, the one state that will/can determine the president is governed by the candidate's brother? Hmmm.... what a coincidence. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

The winner has not even been determined yet, and so many of you are saying its already a conspiracy! What if Gore wins - will you still be thinking that? I have stated from the beginning that Bush is my choice based on my perception of the ISSUES. That is what matters - not stats, not myths, and not personality conflicts. Like I said before - it is out of our hands now. Its ironic to me that George was declared the winner, Gore conceeded, and then all of a sudden its a recount...hmmm... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

It's also ironic that Florida went to Gore...then undecided...then to Dubya.
And ol' Jeb (Dubya's brother http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif ) is the governor of Florida. Something is rotten in FLORIDA...
But seriuosly though...I can't wait for this to be over so that I can start my pissing and moaning at whom ever get's it ...I can do that BECAUSE I VOTED!!!!

[This message has been edited by Franny Granny (edited November 08, 2000).]

Here is a link with interesting facts about the electoral college:
www.policy.com/news/dbrief/dbriefarc770.asp.
If this link doesn't work you can go to www.policy.com and do a search on electoral college.

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited November 08, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited November 08, 2000).]

Totally Apart from the issues.....is anybody scared at all about what an uneducated man George W. gives the appearance of being. While he did his undergrad at Yale, and masters from Harvard, Daddy bought his way into both institutions where he graduated with sub-par grades. The man can't even put together a grammatically comprehensible statement without the aid of his speechwriters. Is this the man we want representing our nation to the world. Under Democrats, the nation has prospered for the last 8 years. Hopefully, the missing ballot boxes will appear, the mismarked ballots will be corrected, and Gore will be elected.

[This message has been edited by NewInFL (edited November 08, 2000).]

I just feel sorry for minorities and any of us other "special preferences" people if G.W.B. gets in.
Us negras better run for we are back down south and not by choice if you get my drift. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

Who is a member of the fraternity that has done the most to fight the attacks from radically liberal school administrators on the Greek system? Who believes that the people should control the government, not the other way around? I'll give you a hint - it ain't Gore.

On a lighter note, what was Dan Rather smoking last night, and is it legal in the U.S. or Canada? He out-Dennis Millered Dennis Miller.

I was rolling when he was talking to the analysts, and they kept saying "if this" and "if that" - and then out of no where he kinda yelled "yeah - yeah - yeah, and IF frogs had sidepockets they'd carry handguns, but they don't so let's forget the if's" - I love it! Too funny!

As a Florida resident, this is all extremely fascinating. My state is the focus on what will happen in our country for the next 4 years. I am so glad that they are doing a recount. I do not agree with EVERYTHING that Gore stands for but I think he is the lesser of two evils. After reading those Texas statistics, it's very scary to think that Bush might be our next president.

I agree!! I was just discussing this issue with a coworker this morning. It is an unfair and unjust system. The president should not get ALL the electoral votes for a state where only 50.1% of the people voted for him. It is possible (and I beleive it has already happened) where the candidate who receives the majority of the popular vote LOSES because of the electoral vote process.




------------------
mccoyred

Dynamic
Salient
Temperate

That doesn't say anything at all. The Bush and Gore camps got their information from the same place the rest of us did, the media. Some major news papers went so far as to release early editions announcing Bush the winner. When Gore conceeded, he was under the impression that Bush won, just like Dewgirl was under the impression that Bush won when she created this thread. I think we need to get rid of media coverage of the "results." They're misleading. How much sense does it make to say someone is the "winner" when less than 90% of the votes are tallied. It's stupid and leads to confusion, like we have now. The RESPONSIBILE thing for the media to do, since we all knew it was going to be a close race, would be to get ALL the facts before they declare or project a winner, including getting an absentee ballot count. As it stands now, it may be days before we know who really won this election. Several other states are following Florida's lead and recounting the ballots. CNN reported a worker in a day care center that was used as a polling place in Florida found a box of ballots that was left behind. This is far from over.

The voice of the people has spoken and Al Gore has won the popular vote nationally, by a good 200,000 votes. Even if Dubya wins Florida, it will not be enough to give him the popular vote nationally.
I think that everything going on in Florida (and Missouri) is suspicious and a travesty on the part of the system to say the least.
It is reminiscent of the types of gerrymandering that took place before the passage of the voter's rights act. I quite frankly am disgusted and don't doubt for a moment that Jeb had a hand in this. Something needs to be done, they can't just get away with this kind of corruption.
AXO Alum- We have all heard the statistics speech before. As a Christian doesn't your bible tell you that vengeance belongs to God?

I won't get into my personal beliefs and details about who I think should (and will) win, but, let me say this about the election results:

WOW

Regardless of who wins this election, and I believe it could still go either way (the miracle of statistics and the Electoral College)...think of the history we are living to see...the closest race since 1960, possibly one of the closest races EVER (though I believe I heard Thomas Jefferson won by one vote way back when...). This is definitely something you can tell your children and grandchildren about. It reminds me of the Dewey/Truman race and the Cleveland paper goofing.

I still hope things turn out the way I voted, but, if not, wow, what a ride. Even with the media's trying to call the race early by goofing on Florida, twice thus far (watch this to become a true issue in the NEXT election - calling states two minutes after polls start to close in the state), it was a night to remember. New Mexico, snow and all, might still turn a surprise, as may Oregon.

My vote? Again, I won't go into specifics (though many of you know) - I look at voting this way: the ballots we cast our votes on are not pure white paper. They are stained with the blood of those who gave their lives in defense of our country and what our country stands for, to allow us to have the freedom to vote. However any of you voted, doesn't really matter as much as the fact that YOU DID VOTE, and validated their sacrifice in defense of the Constitution and the people.

Now, since I didn't get ANY sleep last night as a result of work and trying to watch election results....good night.

[This message has been edited by LXAAlum (edited November 09, 2000).]

My favorite quote from Dan Rather:

"And Bush has...uhm, I can't see how many votes has...so we'll just move on"

Apparently, he couldn't read the graphic, so he just skipped over it.

I swear, the man sounded drunk last night http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

No, I won't say it's a conspiracy if Gore wins because Al Gore's brother isn't the governor of the state holding things up. Come on now. 50 states. Florida's polls were some of the first to close. Jeb Bush is governor. They're still counting ballots. The Bushes would be crazy not to think people would be suspicious. We know how families favors for each other. They probably didn't think it would come down to Florida being the deciding vote and all eyes would be on them.

Yes, it will still be a conspiracy if Gore wins. It will just be a failed conspiracy.

You have your own people? I thought that was illegal since the civil war! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif Seriously though, They gave FL to Gore after less than half of the state reported in! How could you base that big of a state off of that? Isn't one of Gore's advisors high up in FL government? That's what I heard anyway. I don't see what was so confusing about the ballot in Palm Beach. There is NO reason for a revote. If someone was confused by the ballot, they should have asked for assistance. I don't argue with the recount though, if ANY state is that close, it should definitely be recounted. The media shouldn't say so and so is president within a couple hours after a few exit polls. Gore shouldn't have conceded though, if it was that close.

------------------
Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

When Gore conceded he thought that there was a 12,000 vote difference and the media had called the state for Bush. So basically he was in the same situation dubya had been in a few hours earlier. I don't fault him, because he was misinformed.

That's what you get for listening to the media http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

I was watching a show yesterday that let people call in and voice their opinion. One woman said that when she was in the booth and she accidently punched Pat B., she asked for a new ballot. They gave it to her of course. However, when she and her busband were driving home, she was telling him how confusing the ballot was and how she marked Pat instead of Gore and why she made the mistake, her husband realized he did the same thing, but didn't realize the mistake until that moment. By then it was too late. So I don't think a whole lot of people realized they made a mistake or were confused, they just didn't realize until the info about the confusing ballot came out. Also, I heard that it WAS reported that people were getting confused about the ballot and the people helping with the election did nothing about it. They just let people go in and vote and didn't explain anything. I think that when it was reported, the people helping should have posted signs or something in the booths explaining that part of the ballot. I also heard that part of the voting process in FL was done by computer and that the elderly people coming in either left because they didn't know how to work the computer or ended up voting wrong because they didn't know how to use the computer. They couldn't ask for help because then their vote would become void--since nobody can help you vote.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LadyAKA:
WHAT????????? - CHILD PLEASE!!!!

If I came on here and called you a "child" then you would be furious. I am not a child - I am an adult with an informed opinion and that is something that everyone, not just certain (read "my") people have the right to! State your opinion, but do not act like you are the only one entitled to do so.

At least I have stated my opinion in reference to the issues, and have not started the name calling. We all have our beliefs, religious and otherwise - so deal with it when people disagree with you rather than reacting with hatred and name calling.

"you kill them off first and apologize later. I am now not attacking bush, but your comment on the death penalty!!!"

I have never killed anyone, thank you. This is my opinion on the death penalty.

Please feel free to email me personally if you would like to further discuss our philosphical differences. I will be respectful of your right to your opinion if you are respectful of my right to my opinion.

[This message has been edited by AXO Alum (edited November 09, 2000).]

This is not true of where I live - we also used the computer and when I marked "Bush/Cheney" it lit up. But then, when I tried to mark a different section of the ballot, my vote changed from Bush to Gore. I immediately grabbed one of the procters and told her the problem and she herself changed my vote back and watched until I finished to make sure it didn't mess up again. She also said that had been a problem all day. So it isn't just people voting for Gore who are getting screwed up, I just happened to re-check my ballot before voting (which everyone should do regardless since its too late once the button is pushed). I think that this stuff is way too technological - there were also elderly people staring at the computers because they didn't know what to do with it. Just like that punch ticket thing...just give me a pen and the ballot and I'll mark it myself. I will say that it is true that the Elections Board director of that county in FL with the punch ticket thing is a democrat and he has stated repeatedly that the sample ballot was issued, and that there were no problems with it before. He also said that even though he is a Democrat, he does not see how it was confusing because the arrows point to the number beside the name.

Also - Bush did not ask for a recount. It is the law that less than 1/2 of 1% automatically gets a recount. People are getting their stories confused because this has been piped out through the media in all sorts of ways.

By the way - I can respect the fact that we can all have different opinions, but lets stick to the issues and not get personal with each other. Thank you!

AXO Alum,

Thanks for the correction. Like I said, I had heard that, but hey, I'm in West Virginia. That news had to travel and I know that we've all played that 'telephone' game before where you start a sentance and whisper it to your neighbor and when it ends up at the last person it's totally different than what was originally said. I always thought that if someone watches you vote, that your vote became void and that's why they had the dividers and curtains, but hey I'm obviously wrong. From what you said, it sounds like the voting process with the computers was just totally messed up. I did see the ballot on TV where people voted for Pat B. instead of Gore. It was kinda confusing. You really had to look at it. I thought it was because usually people read down one page first and then the next like a book. When they saw Gore's name and saw he was second, they automatically punched the second hole. Then skipped over the second page because they skimmed it and saw the two other candidates that they weren't going to vote for. So I can see how it could have been confusing or misread.

Wouldn't you really want to look at it, before you just punched some number? I think if nothing else, voting would be something to take serious, and make sure of what you were doing, besides this ballot had been used before, and there were never any lawsuits over it, at least as far as I know.

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Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.