GPA Question *tricky*
 

Ok...regarding GPA requirements for rushing, I know when you transfer schools your GPA does not carry over. This is my story

*HS...not so great GPA 2.0 graduating...but not sure if they will need H.S. transcript as I graduated 2004 and have had college work since then)

Attended community college-GPA 3.4

Transferred to State School-GPA plummets due to working 40 hours to pay for classes that I couldn't attend because I was working to pay for them (yay for shitty financial aid advisors who don't know what they are doing and stick you with a huge bill that MUST BE PAID...should note here I was trying to go the "no student loans" route...so I did shoot myself in one foot, while FIN AID shot my other) and not dropping hte classes, just ended up failing them. (Yay for shitty advisors who were never available and schedualed appointments to become "no shows" leaving me waiting for AN HOUR before giving up...ok sorry mini rant)

*GPA plummeted to point of academic probaton

Went back to community college- GPA 3.2

When transferring down to School out of state, will they look at just the college I transfered from, or both?

When I transferred and intended to go through recruitment at MTSU that fall, I had to put my current GPA on the application.

I think that if you want them to consider anything other than your official school GPA, you're going to have to provide it. It seems like it would be in your best interest to try to provide the transfer plus current average if you can.

I don't mean to jump topics, but are you sure you want to take on additional financial responsibilities and time commitments right now?

If you are talking NPC groups at a competitive campus, it sounds a little like your GPA might be an issue, and if you get a bid from someone you like, it will be a time commitment and a financial one, as well.

I work at a state university that counts all previous transcripts in the GPA. We accept some students who are on academic probation or suspension from their previous university, on condition that they have demonstrated a change in purpose and have a plan for success.

Some students are concerned that the low GPA will keep them out of consideration for grad school employment. Grad schools and employers both appreciate the wisdom that is gained from being sidetracked and figuring out a way to return to school and be successful.

I would think that a sorority would give you the same consideration, particularly if you have leadership experience or other qualities that they look for in their members.

RoseBuddy

So let's get this all straight.

You're going to U of Southern Alabama, a Southern, traditional, fairly competitive school. You're not transferring until next spring.

You're older (currently 22, may very well be 23 or 24 by the time you rush), have a rocky academic past of various schools and either pretty good or terrible grades, and possible financial issues (you're still going to have to pay for school, and sorority dues, which aren't cheap).

These do not bode well at all for your chances at sorority membership. It really doesn't appear that you have the responsibility and drive that sorority membership requires.

Though I'm sure some things were out of your control, most of them were well within your control. Failing classes is your own fault- no one else's. Trying to work to pay for school full out instead of taking out loans like the rest of the world is a poor choice that you made. You don't seem like you're in much of a hurry to get back to school and get finished with your degree. I see a heck of a lot of blame on other people in your post and no acceptance of any fault on your own part.

ETA: I also think that a sorority would be a bit wary because it seems like you haven't been able to stay at one place in one school for very long at all. Why should they go through all the cost and expense of recruiting someone and taking them as a new member, only to have them drop out of school or otherswise disappear at the end of the semester?

I saw a similar situation last fall. A PNM listed her HS GPA (3.2) and that she was transferring in 18 college credit hours (2.8). The chapter I was working with considered HS GPA if the PNM had less than 12 college credit hours and considered college GPA if she had 12 or more. (That's a LOCAL rule - don't assume everyone does it that way.) Additionally, we NEVER trust what a PNM tells us her GPA is - we go by what the Greek Office confirms on the application. Turns out her college credits were 12 hours at a 2.0. Released her first night.

What I'm saying is that what will really matter is what the University says you have. I suggest asking them what credits will transfer and count toward your degree and what the Student Information System on campus says your GPA is. That's what the Panhellenic Advisor will be confirming anyway.

If it is low, you can offer up the explanation. I see about five of those every fall. And I can tell you honestly that they don't mean a hill of beans - the PNMs are released anyway. That's harsh, I know. But it's true. We'd rather see a PNM get a solid year of University coursework under her belt and earn a good GPA than take a chance on someone who hasn't proved herself in the past. This particular campus isn't SEC-level competitive, and we have a separate quota for juniors and seniors so that they have the same chance for placement as the younger PNMs.

ETA: I haven't read your other posts to see where you are going, so I don't know what else might affect recruitment for you....

If it's not too private, can people say what there approximate GPA cut off really are/were?

Greek life will usually give a minimum, but I have the feeling that it's the minimum used for girls who are directly descended from founders, organized the entire Relay for Life in her hometown last year, and currently presides over both the BSU and the cheerleading squad at college.

It's hardly the minimum that Average Jane PNM will need to avoid being cut for grades.

If you don't want to give the range, how about just noting what percentage of girls ever get bids who don't have at least a 3.0 in college or a 3.5 from high school.

I know some schools list the chapter's grade rankings on their Greek Life or PHA site. I've seen lists broken down between new member GPA, active GPA and overall chapter GPA and others than just rank chapters in GPA order. If this info is available it'll give you a better indication of "real" GPA numbers versus the "2.0-2.5 minimum GPA" usually listed in recruitment materials.

the florida state individual sorority websites state the minimum gpa requirement for a pnm. it varies from sorority to sorority. i would imagine that the minimum gpa panhellenic requires to be eligible for formal recruitment is stated either on the panhellenic page , in the recruitment rules and/or the greek life booklet that is online. maybe usa has something similar-take a look or call the greek life office.

Our minimum GPA requirement was officially a 2.8, but notice I said officially. In actuality, things were a bit different...I'll just say that it would be a good thing for a PNM to have at least a 3.0.

Also, I'll add that some sororities are very careful about taking PNMs that they consider to be a "grade risk."

You don't have to worry about providing your high school transcripts at this point. While your grades in community college are good, you also need to take into account that each school sees ALL college grades, so that includes community college AND the grades you earned in your state college. The Greek organizations get your academic information from the school--since they will have your records and go by ALL earned grades in college, they will see it all. However, it depends on how your current college calculates your GPA. It will likely be an average of all classes and if your state college GPA was below a 2.0, which is traditionally what it would have to be to be placed on academic probation, it could be very difficult for you to be extended a bid. That's not to say it's impossible, but it could be harder for you (especially considering your class standing, as well).
I know that advisors and financial aid can be hard to work with, but we all have to go through this. It's annoying, but sometimes you just have to work things out on your own.
As far as the struggle with finances and grades, focus on those before you go Greek.

This is what I was getting at. I think the groups publish what is technically the minimum, but it doesn't mean much because you really need something higher.

Looking at the new member average is probably a good idea if your school publishes it for transfers (at least you would know how high yours would have to be to seem high), but it doesn't probably tell a high school girl what they're looking for out of high school.

Is it your experience that Zeta at FSU considers everyone above the posted average as being "good"? (That'd be cool.)

I know people are pretty forthcoming about what the absolute minimum is, but what they don't say is that someone with the minimum will need to be amazing in all other areas to compensate, or even that if you don't know anyone in the chapter already and aren't a legacy, being at the official minimum would be way too low.

I'd go as far to say that, due to your class standing and age, the way USA calculates your GPA is going to be crucial in how competitive you are during recruitment. Your GPA really has to be stellar. If your GPA ends up being, say, a 2.6, that's only going to hurt you when you're competing with 18 y.o. PNMs coming out of high school with near perfect GPAs. Like, really, REALLY hurt you.

I will say that my chapter looked at the transfers' college GPAs very critically. If we were to bid a transfer, we wanted to know that she had the skills and drive to do very well in college. If she had a low college GPA (i.e. anything below about a 3.0) it was an enormous strike against her.

I'm sorry to sound discouraging because I know you're excited about recruitment...but it looks like you've got an uphill battle ahead of you. Best of luck to you, I hope everything works out.

I'm going to echo kddani's sentiments and add that based on some of your posts (and I don't want this to sound too critical) it sounds like you don't take a lot of personal responsibility.

I'm not really sure why you chose to work 40 hrs/week if you knew you had to go to class. If you couldn't schedule your classes around work, or better yet, work around your classes, I dn't know how you're going to handle sorority life because there are meetings, fund raisers, practices and all kinds of other stuff in addition to class.

Many of my sisters were able to successfully balance school, work and sorority but everyone was strategic about how they did so. They would work around classes and sorority stuff and sometimes usually in the evenings.

I guess I'm not understanding why everything is financial aid's fault if you chose to go to the non-loan route?

It also sounds like there will need to be some kind of help in the financial department if you are seriously considering a sorority. Sororities aren't cheap.

If you do get into a sorority, and decide to work as well, you will need to consider that you will likely need to take around 2 weeks off (at least that was the time committement at my school) for recruitment. That's 2 weeks of unpaid time unless you are fortunate enough to work at a place that will give you that time paid in the form of vacation.

And like kddani said, you should be responsible for passing your classes. The blame should not be on the advisors just because they weren't there when you decided you wanted to drop them.

If you work during the day, go to class and study at night.

I remember this one remarkable woman who worked 2 jobs and consistently had one of the highest grades in our junior and senior level classes. This woman worked a lot, graduated owing nothing for her education and graduated with honors. She looked tired a lot of the time, but she was dedicated to school and made it.

A 3.2 doesn't sound bad to me. :confused::confused:

A little off topic, but I've only failed one class in my college career, and I'm the type of person used to getting As, and I took it again and got an A. (which I think it will be averaged to a C when I transfer?) and now I believe I have a 3.25 now. I'm not really sure what I'm getting myself into having registered for rush this fall, but I'm pretty confident with myself, my grades, activities. I'm transferring there, and I know that USA does have a lot of transfers. I don't see any reason not to be confident with a 3.2, if that's what you have.

But, then again, I'm not greek. I don't really know what sororities at USA are looking for specifically.

How is the Panhellenic minimum set? Does the campus Panhellenic GPA requirement equal the lowest GPA requirement of all the chapters? So to use KSUViolet06's scenario, would there be at least one chapter on campus with a minimum 2.0 GPA requirement? Frankly, it does not seem fair that Panhellenic would allow a girl to rush with a lower GPA than what is required by at least one chapter.

the fsu zeta webpage states that their minimum gpa requirement is a 3.0. most of the other fsu sororities have the same minimum, while a few others a lower gpa as their minimum.

i would hope that if a sorority makes a statement which they publish such as," blah blah chapter of abc sorority requires a minimum gpa of 3.0." that that truly is what the minimum is. i am not privy to the details of membership selection at my chapter anymore, since i live 7 hours away and am not able to assist during recruitment. i do know that gpa at or above the minimum, activities and honors, service, recs., friendly, outgoing personality and pleasant, well put together appearance would be plusses for a pnm at fsu and any other campus. on most campuses a girl would have to be really extra, extra special for a chapter to be willing to take a grade risk. the lower the gpa, the greater risk the pnm would seem to be.

i agree ksuviolet....i think it is rotten when the gpa required to enroll in recruitment is lower than the lowest gpa required by any of the campus sororities. i think that it is very misleading to pnms. panhellenic gpa requirements should be set at the lowest acceptable gpa of the campus sororities.

I agree that Panhellenic shouldn't do that and it's another instance of how the official word can be misleading.

I just wanted to clarify that I didn't think chapters were deliberately misleading about the minimum, but that in actuality the average PNM who didn't have other strengths to offset the GPA might need a higher GPA than the minimum to avoid being released.

A great girl with a great rec, lots of activities, and who girls in the chapter knew could easily get a bid with with the minimum GPA. A great girl who didn't have a rec or know girls in the chapter, maybe would need a higher GPA?

I take the minimum to be as low as the chapter could go with someone they were willing to take a grade risk for. But that it's lower than average and what they'd really want.

GPA seems to play a much more important role in NPC membership selection (recruitment) than IFC/NIC rush.

What I have noticed with IFC/NIC is that the GPA to rush (if there is one) is usually the same as most of the fraternities. If I recall correctly, the NIC Standard being 2.3 to pledge. And yes, some campuses have a higher GPA to rush/pledge. Regardless, I would guess (hope) it would be the same GPA needed to rush and to pledge. In other words, the lowest chapter GPA would be the minimum required GPA to rush.

Which may explain why on most campuses, the all NPC chapter average is usually higher than the all IFC/NIC chapter average.

To be clear, this isn't to say that academics isn't important. For the most part, most chapters pledge men with a higher GPA than the minimum. Yet by keeping a lower GPA requirement, the chapter can still pledge those men that are "blue chip" (i.e. activities out the wazoo, popular, legacies, athletes, etc.) but do not have *as high* as a GPA as perhaps others do.

My guess is that this works for IFC/NIC because there is no quota or totals.

Exactly. You put it very well.

I agree as well. I would just add that *in general*, fraternities are perhaps more likely to take a grade risk than sororities.

For my sorority, the required GPA is actually lower than what the local NPC sets. THerefore, we go by the highest. I think that's pretty much standard; you take the two and go by the higher one.

And i'm sure that fraternities go lower than sororities; my boyfriend joined a fraternity with a 1.7. Granted, it was local so they weren't bound by the requirements many national GLO's are, but still.

To clear some things up....
 

First off, thanks for all the responses so fast! *logs on and sea’s 26 responses....* HOLY CRAP! Anyway... Apologies ahead of time for the beginning coming of angry. I think I mislead a few people and would like to correct that.

*excuse the misspelling/bad grammar ahead of time, its late, I just got off work*

I think that there is some confusion here, I did have to retype that original thread twice as it cleared out the first time (went' to cannot find page of doom) so I was a little testy typing it.

1) My classes that I received poor grades in will not transfer. They will be dropped. Classes you receive a D or F in do no transfer. So this will boost my GPA, not by much but it will help with the State issue.

2) Yes, I do own up to a lot of the poor things that have happened as my responsibility. But when you are fresh out of high school and don't know anything about LOANS or FAFSA and are just starting to figure it all, I had scholarships to cover everything as it was my first semester out of high school. So my financial aid advisor didn't feel the need to go over these things with me. When I transferred, I entered a completely different school that *assumed* I knew everything about financial aid. The "state" university I attended is an "extension" of a state university. As in there are maybe 3000 kids who attend. If that. I commuted to school. I was assured by the financial aid office that I didn't need to take out loans, why you might ask? Because my EFC on my FAFSA was so high. Guess who pays for college. ME. Not my parents, not my grandparents, not my uncles, my aunts, whatever. ME. Did she ask that? No. She doesn't care. She just knows it has to be paid. She doesn't care by whom, and doesn't care to explain it to someone, who she thinks knows the ins and outs of financial aid because I had college work completed at another school. She's repeated it 10,000 times before hand, and this just saves her one time of saying it again. It's burn out, but none the less it screwed me.

3)When you have someone who does a piss poor job explaining to you about costs and what YOU WILL BE PAYING to attend their institution, you end up getting stuck with a $4000 bill that must be paid. I had THREE MONTHS to pay this off. Have you ever tried to pay off $4000 in three months while paying for your car, your gas, your insurance, your phone, your food etc? I didn't "choose" a 40 hour week knowing I had class. I HAD TO have a 40 hour week. Money doesn't grow on trees.

4) Once I discovered this huge huge bill and its problems, there was NO ONE to talk to about it. My "advisor" was never available. Anytime I wanted to talk to someone about what I needed to do, the response was "You need to make an appointment with your academic advisor". Who, as I said, would make appointments with me, and never show. By the time they switched me advisors I was told I needed to drop the classes, but I was already past the point of any refund and would have to pay for the classes anyway. I didn't have help here.

5) I'm taking out monstrous loans to get out of this area and the trap I am in of staying home and going to school. I am back at the community college because it’s what works for me now in my financial situation. My brother (who has just graduated and is making more than my parents) wants to help me out and is willing to co-sign some loans with me, so I can go out of state for school. I fully intend on, once completing school, living in Alabama. The debt will be completely worth it.

KDdani, you must not have read my other posts, that’s ok I didn't expect you too, but I have to clarify. I'm only 20 right now. I will be 21 when I transfer. Won't be 22 until April of 08. I didn't retype all that information (have been typing it in every post I've made) because it didn't seem relevant.

I understand that none of you know me, or my situation, and given that I have had some great answers to this question. Most everyone on this site is helpful and willing to give great advice. But a couple of replies to this question were HUGE ASSUMPTIONS about someone YOU DON'T KNOW. Giving me advice on the GPA requirements is one thing, but to say that I don't seem too eager to pursue my degree is completely another. You know about 19 or 20 posts worth (as that’s all I've posted) about my life. If that, as I can't say you've went back and re read everything I ever posted.

I'll be updating on this as I go through admissions on what university I plan on attending. Nothing is set in stone for USA and there are a couple of other colleges that are looking just as equally appealing.

Thanks again for the advice, and sorry I didn't quote this time around, I plan on responding to this again, but alas I am sleepy.

We're just going on the information that YOU have given us. You've come here asking for advice on a multitude of questions. Based on the information you've given us and what you've said, impressions and opinions were formed.

To sidetrack for a second- there is a wealth of information out there about financial aid. It is up to everyone to educate themselves. Hell, most people do it themselves without any help from any sort of adviser. It just really came across (and still comes across) as shifting of blame. It would be easier to be understanding towards your situation if you just said "yeah, I screwed up" rather than blaming everything on the evil school and advisers.

I'll just be blunt- your chances of sorority membership are pretty low. Low GPA, older, several transfers, possible financial issues, and the fact that you're not getting to the school until spring (when formal rush is held in the fall) and won't really know anyone- none of these bode well. Everytime you've started a thread with a new question it's just adding to this list- it seems like there's always another issue.

Just as a sidenote:

I work at a university as an graduate-level academic advisor and see the undergraduate transcipts on a daily basis. Although you are correct that D's and F's do not transfer, many schools still put all the grades on the transcripts from previous schools. So if you do have D's and F's from the University of East Cupcake, got straight A's from Local Community College and now are transferring to State University, it is very likely that a State University transcript will show all classes and grades ever taken anywhere including the non-transferrable ones.

Yes, the colleges/universities do expect parents to pay for their children's higher education. It IS very difficult to be designated independent in terms of the FAFSA unless one is married or has served in the Armed Forces. EFC is notoriously high and parents are usually in sticker-shock when the figure is tabulated.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with kddani. Granted, I know zero about the University of South Alabama but it does seem like there are several things stacked against you. If that school does formal rush in the Fall and you plan to rush in the Spring, be aware that your choices may be limited from the beginning because not all chapters may be participating in Spring rush. Your age may or may not be an issue; I don't know. However, your GPA is very likely to affect your chances of receiving a bid (or even invitations to the next round) as well as the fact that you've transferred several times. Sororities might look at that and say, "Wow, she sure doesn't stay in one place very long...maybe we shouldn't bid her because she probably won't stick around!" I'm not implying that you don't plan on staying a while at USA or that you lack commitment, but to people who don't know you, it may look that way. And that's another thing--if you don't know anyone on campus, it's probably going to be hard simply because there's no one who can vouch for how cool/fun/smart/whatever you are. And especially when there are all those other things (GPA, age, transfers) that might give sororities reason to be skeptical, with no one who knows you, you might be cut heavily.

Again, I apologize for overstepping beyond the question you asked, but it sounds like you've got a lot going on and are working hard to achieve your goals. While it might be fun to be in a sorority, you'd probably have to do some things differently if you really wanted to increase your changes, like go to school in the fall when the big rush takes place.

If you know that your boyfriend comes before the transferring and rushing (and I think it's perfectly fine that you feel that way, especially if you are staying in school someplace in the fall), then you may need to recognized that it's going to be really hard to join a group.

It sounds like it's been tough for you to get as far as you have, but some aspects of the recruitment process aren't going to reward you for that.

I agree. This goes also with dropping classes and stuff. My first school (I transfered as well) gave no help whatsoever with finical aid (or really crappy help) and no help at all when dropping classes. You need to take the responsibility for you screwing up and stop blaming it on other people.

Off topic but...so happy that my new school just lists it was T for transfer and not the grade that we got!

Like kddani said, t here is a wealth of information out there about financial aid for college.

Typing "college financial aid" in Google will bring you to finaid.org which is free information on what you need to fill out, how to fill stuff out etc. There is even charts with the differences on the types of loans.

This website has been up for quite some time.

Of the two universitites that I attended, neither one had financial aid "advisors" that sit you down and hold your hand and tell you what forms you need to fill out by when. The people there were there to receive paperwork already completed or hand out the checks, processes that are getting automated through online systems nowadays.

For what it's worth, sororities probably do not want to hear how something was the academic advisor's fault or the financial aid advisors fault, because you will come across as a blame shifter. Being involved in a sorority or any type of organization, is being part of something that is bigger than you. That means standing with the group, and when times call for it - falling with the group. You can't shove the blame of something onto someone else just to save your own behind. For that reason, if you do rush, I would suggest not discussing that.

That's just my opinion though... others may think differently.

HUH????

Wait you're 20 right now and you're going to go from 20 to 22 in the span of 12 mos? Did you mean April of 09 you're going to be 22? Sorry, I'm just a bit confused.

I think it would make sense if her birthday was later this month.

That makes sense to me. I am X years old right now. In a couple of weeks (before 30 April), I will be X+1. By 30 April, 2008, I will be X+2. :(

Right but in another post in her other thread she made it sound like she was going to be 22 by the time the second semester started (i.e. January) so I'm just wondering if I'm confused or if she just mistyped...

I'm going to throw out the idea that the difference of being 21 versus 22 isn't going to be a significant one in terms of what her recruitment experience will likely be like.

If she's seen as older than most PNMs and that matters at her campus, the issue already presents itself.

For me, USA counted my D in cal, and my A in cal. I think that when admissions say that anything below 2.0 doesn't transfer, it just means that if you want credit towards graduation for it, you have to take it again at USA.

They do still include all classes taken for your overall GPA. So overall, my D/A in cal evened out to a C.