Student housing questions
 

Does anyone know of a Brother who is in the student housing business somewhere? A question has crossed my desk regarding a "reasonable accomodation" for a student at a university and I really am stumped for an answer. I'm hoping that we have someone somewhere who will spend ten minutes on the phone with me.

Thanks

What state John?

Student Housing Question
 

John - is your question related to reasonable accomodation for a student who may be qualified for reasonable accomodation as a result of a short term or long term physical or mental condition. Then the question of what state, and the nature and ownership of the housing will matter. Some more details please.

Exactly. The kid is a student at Northern Arizona University and has been diagnosed with moderate to severe depression and anxiety disorder. For the past couple of years he has had a single in a dorm (a double room wherein he was the sole ocupant; he paid for both spaces).

For next year the University is saying no dice on that. NAU is enjoying a massive increase in enrollment andthey are short of dorm space for they want everyone to be in a double.

Northern Arizona University

John, I really do not understand this question. If the individual is willing to pay for a double room then what seems to be the problem?

The Un. wants money for the space and he is paying for it, so where is the problem?

Not knowing the full extent of his problems are medication available to help him?

Isn't there a "Government Agency" that would cover a situation such as this?

I know, a lot of questions but I am very interested in a situation like this.

Good luck.

No Federal agency gives a damn right now. Official policy in disability seems to be pray and God will help you. Enforcement of ADA rules has fallen to the lowest level since passage of ADA years ago.

In this case the University wants bodies in rooms, not dollars in pockets. A kid with a single keeps another kid out of a dorm room. This is a balancing act betwen a "reasonable accomodation" for a disabled student and the need of a non-disabled student for a bed in a dorm.

That seems like a reasonable accomodation to me, but what do I know.

And sitting all alone in a double room all the time is a good thing??? This doesn't make any sense, nor does the classification as disabled. If he's attending college, how is he disabled?

That is a good question and what about medication for the problem?:confused:

Hell, I am living alone and that doesn't mean I do not want people around?

If He was physically disabled that may be a difference.

But having a friend roomie should always be good I hope.

John, I will help out with anything you need me to. Although I am limited, if you point me in a legal direction I can help out.

Just out of curiousity, he has depression and anxiety and has in the past been allowed to live by himself in a double? Why can't he just live in a single by himself? Is there a medical condition where he needs to have the extra room?

You know as much as anyone else that I've spoken with.

Mental illness manifests itself in many ways. One need not be drooling on a park bench in order to be suffering from mental illness, nor does one need to be heavily medicated as we saw in the movie "One Flew Over The Cukoo's Nest".

If it affects the ability to engage in daily tasks and he's under some sort of medical treatment then he likely qualifies for some sort of an accomodation. Whenther allowing him to be the sole occupant of a double dorm room (even though he's paying for two spaces) is reasonable is the question.

The school doesn't have any singles, that is the problem. If it did then we wouldn't be havingthis discussion. The back story is that NAU has been having an unprecedented surge in enrollment and they are short of dorm space and would like to fill every bed that they can and giving one individual a single occupancy of a double room deprives someone else of that bed, regardless of the price paid.

He has been allowed to live in the double dorm room by himself, paying the goingrate for two spaces for his first two years, but they are balking at year three.

Apparently the anxiety issue drives the need for a single, the ability to go someplace and close the door and not be disturbed.

A dorm is not like a hotel. Paying for the double room doesn't pay for the lost tuition of another student who could be living there and attending school.

In effect, this kid is kicking another kid out of college. What gives him the right to do that?

Thanks for the link
 

I appreciatethe link to the codes. I was thinking about crusing overto the law school @ Chapman University to look these up.

The downside to this whole affair is that I'd have to ask the State of Arizona AG to enforce the law againstthe State of Arizona, his employer. That is a tough thing to do. Much better to find some Federal case law that settles the issue.

To compound the situation, the plaintiff wouldn't come off as a sympathetic plaintiff. He's not from Arizona, is overweight, and pursues "an alternate lifestyle". A gay plaintiff just wouldn't garner much support for anything in the State of Arizona.

Matter came to me via a colleague in Alaska who knows that do some work on college campuses - I guess being a High Pi without chapter does this!

It is called a reasonable accomodation and for the past two years it has been acceptable with the university. Now there is a new housing administrator who wants butts in rooms.

He isn't depriving a kid from attending the university, just from a bed in a dorm. If the kid who doesn't get into the dorm can handle living downtown and this kid can't then should the non-disabled kid oust the disabled kid from the school? That is the flip side of your argument.

School for the fittest?

Jono, John is right about mental disabilities. I personally suffer from ADHD and OCD, but thankfully I have them pretty much under control. Don't tell me it doesn't affect people's lives. Don't tell me it doesn't affect my life when I have to check to make sure I locked the door 5 times and that I unplugged the iron 7 times, for reasons I don't even know or understand, before heading to class or leaving my apartment. I used to HAVE to do it.

If it was in Mass., I could help you out more John. If you need some research done, let me know (lexisnexis and westlaw here I come!).

Personally, I just think the admin. needs a kick in the pants. I really do think that kick needs to be filing with the AG as well as whoever enforces the ADA standards on a state level.

I think I read while quickly looking over the law briefly that there are some free counsel available in Az. for filing such a complaint.

I don't have the time tonight to look any further unfortunately. :(

Yeah I was gonna suggest an apartment myself, but if he is incapable of handling that then there is no reason why he shouldnt be allowed to stay in a double by himself as long as he is paying.

I can also personally attest to the fact that living off campus is somewhat cheaper, most Colleges make you purchase a meal plan if you live on campus, which at my school was a waste of $3000, more than enough to cover rent, and then I dont have to pay room and board either so I was sitting on $6000 owed to the school to be cramped up in a dorm and eat crappy caf food at most twice a day (when I ate there), especially when I was paying for 3. So based on my math it was more economical to rent an apartment, buy my own food, and travel, than it was for me to live on campus, eat the worst food imaginable, and have to live by their rules.....NO THANK YOU

Yeah, Trey's situation was the same at my school. It was cheaper, and easier to live off capus. Look into it!

John I don't think that you have to involve the AG to enforce it, you can file a civil suit for an injunction, or so it would seem to me in my reading of the codes. There has to be an AZ attorney who does this sort of thing.

Yes, EM may be right. Here in Massachusetts, discrimination cases must originate with MCAD, Mass. Commission Against Discrimination.

Student Housing
 

John - is there a reason why the student has to live in the dormitories. It would seem to be a reasonable accomodation for him to live in an apartment off campus - thus providing the privacy which he needs for his medical condition. I don't believe that NAU has a requirement that juniors live in the dormitories.

If he is wanting to live in the dormitories because he does not want to have to worry about meals, then the reasonable accomodation is to pay for the meal plan and live off campus. Money does not appear to be the issue.

If his condition is such that he can live off campus, then I don't think that NAU has to provide him with a single room.

Why aren't the student and his parents engaged in a discussion with the University? That is their obligation.

Student and school are in Arizona and the parents are in Alaska. The school is givingthe kid the brush-off.

Apparently there IS a dorm that in the past has provided single rooms for upperclassmen. This kid will be an upperclassman next year. BUT

The school is converting said upperclass dorm with singles into freshman doubles. Upperclassmen currently residing in said doem can keep their singles next year via grandfathering. Client, who has a single for his first two years as an accomodation is told that he isn't grandfathered in as the upperclassmen were.

Seems as if the housing folks are playing "WHACKAMOLE" with the rules. As soon as one rule is dealt with they come up with another. Testing, not on meds, taking too many meds (he takes 1), dorm conversions, decision makers unavailable...

To compound it, when the kid tries to talk to them the anxiety kicks in and he loses focus on the argument.

I agree that an apartment downtown would likely be the optimal solution, but clients don't always want the optimal answer. As a result I may be visiting Flagstaff next week.

John, I take it that ASU is not a small school worried about losing seats in the school as Brother Jono refers to!

While this student has problems, one would think that there can be exceptions as long as the room is completely paid for by one or two persons.

I am sure if He was a Brother of ours or by blood there would be some concern by one or many.

It's Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff, not ASU. They are on an admissions kick and are attempting to grow up from a small school to a "player" in Arizona collegiate education. Personally, I think they have a case of 'campus envy'.

Lots and lots of building on campus. Plus there is a Greek dorm. Very, very nice. Houses are selected to occupy the place. If Indy should ever decided to come west for a new colony then NAU would bear investigation. But my Spidey Sense tells me that the best we can hope for out here is a slow reopening of our closed cjapters at Santa Barbara and perhaps UCLA. Cal? Don't even know if it is on the radar.

When the ELC was in town visiting my chapter last month he told me that that if they went back to Arizona, it would probably be at NAU. Fresh new start at a new campus. Apparently the other Arizona campuses we were at, don't seem worth going back to at the moment. State of the greek system in those schools isn't good he said.

"State of the greek system isn't good" seems to be the stock Indianapolis answer these days.

NAU appears to have a greek positive (an worst greek neutral) administration. Minimal distractions and relatively few bars near campus - as opposed to ASU & Tempe. I believe that we ought to look at NAU but I don't know if we have a viable alumni base there. With the conditions imposed on new colonies now I don't know if the requisite alumni could be found there to support a colony.

I liked Biff's outline of those requirements, but I would say they are more
strong suggestions than steadfast law. I noticed that one of the requirements
said that the school must be a 4 year undergraduate school. STLCOP
doesn't meet that by a long shot. We are a 6 year doctoral program.

Of course, we have a wealth of alumni base in STL...



BE

Brandon, a good point and I for one was going why are we going there.

But, I am sure it is a very worth while school to place a Zeta at and as you say a wealth of Alumni. It also seems to be doing quite well and is needless to say a plus for LXA!

But, there must be a little flexability in any structure.

SLCOP is unique so to speak being 6 instead of four years.

It's too bad that we won't be getting chapters at the 2 big schools in Arizona anytime soon. Both are major universities and this region has been lacking in chapters ever since UNM, U of A and ASU all got pulled. For awhile NMSU wasn't around either. I always thought it was great going down to U of A whenever we played them in football... true, we always lost, but it was fun and we always had a place to stay.

The reason they say 4 year undergraduate school is so that a chapter can't be formed at community college or 2 year college. There was a chapter that was shut down years back because the school became a 2 year college, I believe it was Vincennes University.

HONKY, the G A in Indy this question was brought up about two (Jr. Colleges) discussed and voted down.


The stigma of going to schools for four years is just that.

It as I mentioned is more normal for at least 4 1/2 to 5 years. That has been used as the norm for years and years.

Maybe it should be made more flexible but what justification would there be?

If 4 years is still the norm, and envoking the 8 Semesters to go Alumni to prevent paying dues would be a small portion of Brothers.

This would not prevent Alum Brothers from living in the Chapter House and paying rent which woud cover parlor fees also.
This still prevents them from holding an office and voting in elections of any kind.

Whether it is right or not, IHQ does not make final decissions, the Brothers do at G A every two years.