Homeless people
 

They annoy the hell out of me.

I live downtown about 3-4 blocks away from the bus station which is relatively close to the homeless shelter. I frequently walk between where I live and the city's main club/bar/entertainment district (known as Bricktown). Without fail, I get hit up at least twice.

Yesterday, I saw a homeless guy who had taken his art form to a new low. Dude was sitting in a wheel chair, pulling himself around by his feet (if he was really unable to walk, I don't see a) how in the hell he got all the way out there in a wheel chair and b) if his legs worked well enough to pull him around in his chair why he needed the chair. At any rate, dude looked pathetic.

My wife and I were walking to the botanical garden which is also a few blocks from home. The guy locked onto us like a heat seeking missile. You ever watch football where you think the guy with the ball is going to go for a touchdown, but some defender "has the angle" and catches him? Well, this guy had the angle on us. We of course pick up the pace, but the "crippled" guy starts dragging his wheelchair at warp speed catching up to us.

As he starts to close on us, I figured out how to lose him. We made a bee-line for a parking garage where there was a high curb -- and most notably, no ramp to make it wheel chair accessible (it was a shortcut anyhow). So of course we lost the guy. I guess he was faced with the dilemna of actually catching up to us (eventually he would have) or blowing his wheelchair cover by getting himself over that curb. We won... game, set, match.

These folks really get on my nerves. They aren't really all that bad off. If they're able to catch up to me in their fake wheelchair and give me some bullcrap story about how they ran out of gas, lost their job down at the plant, etc., they can definitely work. That they choose not to ain't my problem. There are homeless that really do need help.. like the schizo woman (who I still see around here walking the streets occasionally) I stopped to block traffic and dialed 911 for as she was laying in the middle of the street clutching a teddy bear screaming "Kill me!". Those folks need our help. Panhandlers? eff em.

i'm a little tired right now to defend the homeless (or "people without homes, as my journalism professor would say - another story)... but i see my share of homeless folks in NYC. i will agree, most of the time they are annoying - they all that their sob stories and in my case, disrupt what you hope will be a peaceful commute home. then you've got to dig in your pockets for loose change which they will spend on anything from cheap boose and loosies to their children's school shoes. i had a homeless guy (according to him, he was a war vet and the government only gave him $60/month to live for him and his wife) follow me during my lunch hour last week and it freaked me out.

however, realize the homeless come in various looks - i was homeless off and on for 1.5 years at one point. but i didnt walk around reeking of urine and vodka. nor did i beg for change. i feel very fortunate for that.

my point to you, Kevin, is though you may think the homeless are annoying, and think that "theyre totally able to work!" consider the following:

1. the pride it takes to ask complete strangers for change. some of are too ashamed to borrow money from our friends and families for various things. these people are asking - begging - not because they want to but because they HAVE to.

2. survival of the fittest doesnt allow them to have the "privelege" of working. the job market is rough enough as it is. how many people (including ourselves) have a hard enough time finding a job with college degrees, decent references and past job experience? i know i am. now imagine having limited education, little to no job references, no means to even get an interview for a menial minimum-wage job? im sure that's a fraction of what the homeless face if they are even thinking about working. and let's be honest - if a seemingly homeless person walked into your place of business looking for work, would you tell him "Can you start on Monday?"

As much as i want to ridicule and blame you for your borderline "holier than thou" attitudes towards those less fortunate, i really cant - for all i know, you probably have never been in a position to have to ask for help, financially or otherwise. and im not talking about "man i need bucks to pay for my books next semester" or "wow, can i grab $10 for dinner tonight?" but some real destitute type help.

tld, I'd never be in that sort of position. I'm not the person some of these folks are. OKC is an interesting place. There is at least one sort of pseudo-corporate entity that sponsors beggars (I've seen a van doing pickups/dropoffs). These guys on a busy street corner can rake in some pretty good money. A decent middle class living at least.. all cash.

As for pride? I don't really care about their situation. Their problems are not my problems. This is a country where someone can sneak over the border with nothing but the clothes on their backs, not be able to speak the language and still be able to make a paycheck.

We'll i (rather my family) never thought i'd be in "that sort of position" either. no one KNOWS theyre gonna end up homeless. just like you said, people can come to this country with nothing and fair OK... but conversely, people who are economically comfortable can fall flat on their @sses and go to nothing. it's less likely, but it does happen.


well lucky you - youre financially comfortable enough that you can distance yourself from the unpleasantries of the less fortunate. god forbid that they ruin your appetite by asking for change and smelling less than desirable.

how can you judge then? seriously, you dont know the backstory - you just know what is front and center. all im sayin is that there's a LOT going on behind the vans that pick them up and drop them off in the city. i know in some parts of DC, the city will sweep homeless into vans, drop them off in some random ass place, give them $10 and bounce. doesn't that suck?

and im sure if these people had a network to fall back on (and im not talking about going to public assistance or having to ask for help from the government, but a real safety net - family, friends, mentors, counselors) then it could be another reason to stay off the streets.

Read "Nickel and Dimed" by Barbara Ehrenreich and then we'll talk. Seriously- that book will give you a new perspective.

I see your point Kevin to a degree (and I too get agitated when approached repeatedly or aggressively), but it is frightening how quickly a person can become homeless in this country with current rental rates (courtesy of real estate speculation and rapacious property taxes) even if they do have a job- or even two jobs.

I have had countless employees, some of them making $30K+ a year, who have a place to live for them and their kids only because family and friends are helping them out. Again, I see your point in some cases, but you would be amazed how many people are NOT homeless in this country who would be homeless if it were not for the support of friends and family. And many homeless are that way because they do not have friends and family to help.

Dude, you're a real selfish prick. Okay, harrassing you is one thing but just plain not giving a damn?
Sorry I was raised in a family where my parents would travel to London once a month with vanloads of sandwiches, drinks, old clothes and blankets to hand out to the homeless.
It doesn't matter how they got there, the fact is they're homeless. Have a little goddamn compassion in that stone lump you call a heart.

Why should I have compassion for someone who doesn't even care enough for themselves to take advantage of free services within walking distance? We have free food, clothing, shelter, psychological counseling, rehab and job training/placement services all within walking distance of here.

Compassion should not be blind and stupid. I honestly do not care that you think I'm insensitive or whatnot. I don't see why it's obligatory to have "a little goddamn compassion" about what happens to someone who tries to sell me a line of B.S. so that I'll give them money to buy alcohol/drugs with.

Two thoughts occur to me: Firstly, when I was about ten years old my Aunt told me the story of Saint Martin of Tours. Might be worthwhile to google it and see if you think it applies. Secondly, a lot of homeless people are veterans who have seen too much of the horror of war and just can't fit into mainstream society as a result. I'll be damned to hell if I ever pass up a veteran asking for help if I have so much as a dime to my name.
One might remember the source of the phrase, 'and the greatest of these is charity'.

Would you like to discuss the state of mental health care in this country? A lot of homeless people are those who cannot receive enough care whether medication, therapy, residential care or otherwise to function in normal society. Their job/insurance/Medicaid doesn't pay for their pills (or only pays for pills not therapy to help you stay on them) which leads to your schizophrenia causing you to lose your job. No job, no home. If you're not serverly disabled you can't stay at a mental health facility long term. Social services try but there's not enough money.

Damn Catholics. The phrase is "The greatest of these is love."

I know that in Catholic-speak love=charity, but let's not go there.

Hey, just cause we taught you good don't mean you got to get all cranky bout it.

=======

Damn Proddys.

Actually, in Catholic-speak the phrase is rendered as 'the greatest of these is love', in this case I was referring to the Masonic usage which equates love and charity. The United Grand Lodge of England and Wales has a pamphlet entitled 'The greatest of these is Charity' and explains the Masonic ideal and obligation to be aware of the needs of others and always to exercise charity, especially to widows and orphans, and to all mankind in general.

Now, for your penance, go put a buck in the Poor Box.

A lot of homeless people have mental health issues. My uncle is mentally ill and also homeless.

Whenever I encounter a homeless person I try to give as much as a can. Its not my place to judge their situation or why they are homeless. I would hope that if I ever ended up homeless (which is actually my biggest fear in the world) people would try to help me instead of judging me.

AMEN. I am a social worker and there are just so many people in dire need of mental health services and homeless shelters, but there is just not enough money to help everyone. So yeah, if people are in need of help what is a few spare pieces of change to you? You seem pretty well off considering that holier-than-thou attitude you've got going on. It's not just a simple cut and dry "why don't they just walk into the homeless shelter" down the street to fix their problems. It's not that easy because they get filled very quickly. If they are asking for some change, don't be a dick about it. :mad:

Stereotypes about the homeless really piss me off.

I'm not saying blindly give, I am saying you're lumping all homeless people under the same umbrella, like they're not good enough to breathe the same air. Yes, some people could go out and get jobs, but a lot of homeless people, for various reasons, can't do that.
I literally don't carry change or cash on me, otherwise I would give a lot more. Maybe I'm just soft, whereas my career would indicate that I be burned out and hardened.

Didn't know you're a social worker! (Counselor in training here)

Kevin, the homeless people you probably don't see are the ones who ARE working while they live in their car with their kids. They won't ask for help and they usually get back on their feet, slowly but surely. I lived in St. Louis which means if you're pumping gas in Midtown you're getting asked for bus fare. Those people probably need the money but know that their line is the one most likely to get them some.

i believe in economics there are the employed and unemployed. the unemployed are broken into: not working and actively seeking, not working and not seeking, and the discouraged worker, who is so fed up with looking for work because the market had slammed them with "dont call us well call you" and "you just dont have the qualifications" for years. that, plus, say... NOT HAVING A HOME or any resources to call your own, well that will kick you in the @ss anyday and surely make you not give a damn.

Riiiiiiiiiiight. and once the homeless start taking advantage of these "free" services, people like you start complaining about how your hard-earned tax dollars are paying for no-good people who can't get it together but could if they wanted to. and again, im going back to the pride issue - it takes a lot for someone to say "i need [insert assistance] help." that admits you cant provide for yourself (and potentially your family). and isnt that the american dream anyway - to be able to be as self-sufficient as possible?

and this takes me back to my OP about homeless people being "people without homes" because guess what? homeless people are PEOPLE first. that means like you, they have feelings. like you, they have (or had) dreams. like you, they at one point have enjoyed the comforts of a home, a decent meal and stability. but even without all of that, they are still PEOPLE. so while you say "why cant they just go to the free shelters, or the free soup kitchens?" youre suggesting a man (or woman) to go to another man and say "give to me." talk about feelings of emasculation.

no, you shouldnt be blindly or stupidly compassionate. in fact i think most of the posters here are saying to be compassionate with some sort of knowledge. because right now, youre spewing a bunch of right-wing BS one-liners that show no depth of knowledge than what you see at face value. i swear if there is a pamphlet of "common homeless myths" everything you have said would be in there.

i'm the type of person who always gives food to the homeless. Maybe because i'm chubby, i always have an extra granola bar or piece of fruit or bottle of water on me... i don't see it as a big deal to spare.

If they ask for money, i just let them know i don't have it (honestly) but if you're hungry i have something to share. If i'm downtown or somewhere walking (and i have TIME) i will offer to take them to mcdonalds or something. sometimes people accept, sometimes people cuss me out. Oh well, i've done my part.

So what you're saying is that there are people who don't want to continue to look for work because they either don't have any marketable skills [their fault] or they have some self-esteem issues [also their fault]. Like I said, there's a state program which had untapped capacity which provides job training and placement services for free -- in many cases it'll even assist people with relocation related costs (probably nothing more than a bus ticket if you're homeless, and the greyhound station is also within walking distance). So at the end of the day, we're still talking about people who don't want to be responsible for themselves (absent the physically handicapped who are eligible for government assistance and the schizos who we could probably do better for, but thanks to the Supreme Court, we can't just institutionalize them).

Why don't you look at the original post. I was specifically talking about the bums who walk up to me on the street and ask for handouts, feigning illnesses, running people down, etc., not the people down at the shelter.

I couldn't care less that these folks take advantage of charitable services and state-run employment relocation/retraining services. I think those are great programs which provide an overall economic benefit if taken advantage of (even a marginally employed person costs the state less than an unemployed person).

You're making a leap here which simply cannot be inferred from any of my posts except that you're stereotyping me as a "right winger" or something along those lines.

Awww.. I'll bet that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside to say that. So people are not homeless due to their own bad choices. It's society's fault... two Americas and all that.

It helps to have a job/income. That's the step 1 that many of these people can't seem to fathom. There's actually a business located pretty near to here where they can walk in, and if they can perform manual labor, they get paid for that day in cash.

Personally, if I were homeless, I'd feel a lot better going to a soup kitchen and using services designed for that purpose than hitting up random strangers on the street, making them feel uncomfortable, etc. The "pride" picture you're trying to paint here simply doesn't seem realistic.

And you spew a bunch of typical left-wing b.s. one-liners, so I guess we're even in that regard, eh?

I don't believe I've said anything which you have shown to be mythical. Maybe you can point those things out to me?

Are you kidding? He specifically separated the homeless into two distinct groups, and noted an example of why he feels something resembling compassion for one and not the other. Wow.

OK . . . what are those 'various reasons'? If it's mental health issues, then the problem lies with the failure of the welfare state to adequately and efficiently fund the resources already available - which can mean anything from the state/federal government to the actual agencies in charge (this is another argument entirely).

If it's social Darwinism in any form (job market, pride/humility, housing costs, etc) then I'm not sure exactly how you're going to reconcile this point - are you really helping by funding the 'homeless lifestyle'? I mean this in earnest - I don't really know the answer. It seems like there is some short-term compassion that would prevent long-term improvement, but it is really hard to say/quantify.

OK fair enough. however, you gave ONE example of your interaction with a homeless person. and surely you know there are as many different types of homeless as there are people in general. im just asking you to look at the other sides - that the answer to homeless people getting their ish together is so cut-and-dry. i suppose it could be in SOME cases, but i bet in MANY other cases, its not as simple as walking into some ready-to-work program and collecting your $ at the end of the day, getting dinner every day at a soup kitchen, or rummaging through a bin of clothes at a shelter. even then those are short-term fixes.

again, fair enough. what im saying is that not everyone is willing to take advantage to what is there. i mean, just because someone is giving out something doesnt mean you should automatically take it. people have their reasons. who are you to judge?

i'm leaping just as much as you are. and yes, im stereotyping you just as much as youre stereotyping the homeless. now what?


i don't need warm and fuzzies, especially on an internet message board from the likes of your opinions. and no, i can agree with you to an extent that some folks are homeless due to bad choices. there are consequences to everything. now should you reach in your pocket everytime a homeless person asks you for it? not at all. but again, you dont know what choices that person made to get to standing in front of you begging.

again, you're cutting-and-drying.

see, and im going to stop you there. you can't really say "if i was..." in a situation like this. you (we, as in the fortunate) can afford to think in idealistic terms versus realistic terms. but since youre claiming im painting an unrealistic picture of pride, then i guess we're even huh?


sure. 1 point for Kevin, 1 point for tld221.

sure:
1. "They aren't really all that bad off." yes, some of them really are that bad off. and dont even come at me saying "i wasnt speakiing for all, just some." you used "they" and that encompasses an enitre group youre stereotyping.
2. "If they're able to... they can definitely work." again, i disagree. i implore you to hire someone off the streets then if you feel that way.
3. "I'd never be in that sort of position." Never say never pal... i just hope your world doesnt come crashing down anytime soon.
4. "...so that I'll give them money to buy alcohol/drugs with." yeah, that's what ALL the homeless folks are doing, drugging and boozing up with your nickels and dimes. maybe theyre trying to grab a cheap bite from mcdonalds to take a break from same ol soup at the church down the street?

I don't get the point of this. You're making a general statement that homeless people annoy the hell out of you because one dude was making a production of trying to catch up and talk to you?

By that logic, I should start a thread "Men:They annoy the hell out of me" -- not to mention the fact that a dude running away from a homeless guy in a wheelchair is kind of pusstacular.

ummmmm yeah. i mean if youre man enough to run away from a homeless dude in a wheelchair, then you really couldve given him the change he mightve been asking for. i mean, it surely wouldve taken you less effort.

but i guess its the principle of the matter right?

If they're asking me for my money, they're asking me to judge whether or not they're worthy of my money. If they're scurrying around the streets hitting people up for money, invading their privacy and space, again, it's my business to judge.

Am I really leaping to say that people who are capable of remaining on their feet all day long, trying to con people out of money are physically capable of other kinds of work, particularly if they take the time to invest a little in themselves? I don't believe that's a leap at all. The fact is that those who do not avail themselves of such services remain on the streets. Why should I or anyone finance that choice? I know for a fact that these services are out there. If someone *chooses* not to take advantage of opportunities, again, their problem.

Considering the other choices I know for a fact that he or she has available to them, you're wrong. It may not be the case in your immediate area, so you shouldn't be casting such a wide net. I know *exactly* what services are available down here. Like I said before, I even did a little volunteer work for the job training/placement service (which is located near the homeless shelter for a reason). I know for a fact that this place does not get near the amount of 'business' that it is set up to handle. It is not an unreasonable inference at all to say that these unemployed, homeless people simply do not want to take advantage of a program which will train them, move them if necessary and find a job for them free of charge.

When I'm able to know that there is an out available to anyone with a working body and mind, I'm able to do that. If I can say with some degree of certainty that people are choosing to or not to take advantage of free services to help them reintegrate into society, then almost without exception (and I say almost because there's probably some situation which hasn't occurred to me) these people are making a choice not to work and to be homeless. Society does not owe you or I a living. It does provide opportunities. You either take advantage of those or you piss them away.

You're right, your assertion doesn't pass the smell test.

You're suggesting that someone who is hitting individuals on the street up for cash, dealing with a lot of rejection and spite, knowing that they are creating an uncomfortable situation for others has more "pride" than someone who simply gets in line at a soup kitchen or signs up for a program to help them get back on their feet.

[quote]Sure. 1 point for Kevin, 1 point for tld221.

Substitute "they" for "many." Some aren't that bad off. Some, in fact, make a better living than I do (tax free) on public charity.

As I have repeated here, there is a program downtown which by the way is not even near capacity which specializes in finding employment for these folks. I understand you're not well acquainted with downtown Oklahoma City. If they're able to, they absolutely can work.

Don't worry, it won't. I'm well prepared for any eventuality which may befall me (at least financially).

Beggars can't be choosers. Statistically speaking, I'm going to be more correct on this one than you are. Drug and alcohol dependency is a big reason people end up on the street.

By what logic?

And no one ran away, merely avoided. I merely found it humorous that he was using this prop in the manner he did. It also occurs to me that if he is disabled to the point of needing a wheelchair, he is also eligible for social security, public housing, etc.

These are both mental illnesses as well. It's hard to get someone with an addiction through a rehab program period, let alone follow up with them and make sure they don't revert back to old habits. Welfare and state health is just in poor shape.
I'd rather give these people something to eat but yeah...just saying, addiction is a genetically pre-disposed illness, one that will cripple your life.

While there are people who can do and wont, yes, there are people who cant and cannot really get any help.

One good example is a fellow who would sit in a parking lot with a sign saying will work for food. He was offered money to work clean up jobs and would not take them. He would bring his cache of food items and trade for a bottle of cheap wine.

He had family who offered him a place to live but wouldnt do it!

Remember, there are those who are panderers and more and more citys are passing ordinances for this very fact.

I have seen some who wear better clothes than I do.

Some alos have more money than some would think! Beats the hell out of an office or manual labor job.

But like Kevin, if I gave to every swinging begger, I could not afford to live either.

Scam to many times is what it is.

Are you saying you traded homeless people wine for food?

In your post, you complained about the behavior of one person (wheelchair dude) and then made generalized statements about homeless people (this one guy annoyed me --> they annoy me). Without even getting into the substance of what you're saying, that's, uh, lame.

Running away and avoiding are pretty much the same thing in this situation, cowboy.

It seems like what you're saying (and I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong) is that you feel you should not have to deal with strangers who want something from you addressing you in public.

Am I really leaping to say that people who are capable of remaining on their feet all day long, trying to con people out of money are physically capable of other kinds of work, particularly if they take the time to invest a little in themselves? I don't believe that's a leap at all. The fact is that those who do not avail themselves of such services remain on the streets. Why should I or anyone finance that choice? I know for a fact that these services are out there. If someone *chooses* not to take advantage of opportunities, again, their problem.

by "my immediate area" you mean the greater NYC metro area? please there are hundreds times more homeless people than there are shelters, soup kitchens, outreach centers, etc. available. so in *my* immediate area, i do believe most of the people who need the help access it in some form, even if it is going to a pantry once a week for a loaf of bread or a men's shelter for a daily shower. and i'm giving YOU examples of volunteer projects i've worked in. and you'll always have your number of folks who just aren't trying at all. but again i couldnt pinpoint them on the street and say "that filthy liar - he could totally get a job and be OK if he wanted to." which is what you're doing.

perhaps the ratios are different in OKC than NYC and you are exposed to a greater number of folks who can actually get their hustle up and make something for themselves. i just dont see that here as much.

oh, so damn them homeless because they're making us, the "priveledged" inconvienenced? oooh poor baby. you will live. geez.

and the dude who is asking you for change in the morning could be in the line at the soup kitchen in the afernoon, then back on the streets during PM rush hour, and in the shelter to get a bed for the night. just because homeless arent putting 2 and 2 together to make a decent living doesnt mean they dont have the smarts to say "well panhandling couldnt hurt - all people can say is no."

and this is why i say youre cutting and drying. you keep naming this ONE program. what happens when th less fortunate wise up, start taking advantage hardcore, and there are no more empployment in OKC? then what are you going to start recommending?

and i commend you for putting yourself in an advantageous position. but i dont commend you for the level of certainty you are holding. i believe that is called "getting comfortable." and we all know folks who get comfortable take downfall the hardest.

and conversely, people end up on the street and create a drug and alcohol dependency. so how are you more correct than I?

when i lived in jacksonville, i worked downtown. near my office was a park. on nice days i liked to sit in the park and eat my sandwich, which i had made at home, because i was just starting out and lived from paycheck to paycheck. i was accosted daily by panhandlers, from "hey, lady, give me some money" to "give me your lunch" to sexual innuendos. when one really scary man kept following me on my lunch hour, i spoke to a policeman on patrol and he basically told me that while he would be happy to speak to the man and tell him to leave me alone, unless he physically harmed me, there was nothing he could really do-that he would be violating the guys rights. when i asked him about my rights, he just shrugged his shoulders. i should have been able to sit on a park bench, eat my sandwich and enjoy the weather, without being bothered. kevin and his wife should have been able to walk to the botanical gardens unsolicitied.

3 true stories:

while running an errand one day, i saw a pitiful looking man by the side of the road holding a sign. the sign said that he and his family were homeless and he was willing to work for food or diapers. it broke my heart. i called my husband in tears and he said that he was near that location and he would speak to the man and offer him a job(we owned a construction co.) when my husband offered the man a job, the man wanted to know what he would be doing. my husband told him that he would be helping to keep the shop clean and would be assisting some of the employees-it might be working with a carpenter one day, working with a concrete worker another, etc. he would start him at $10 and as he acquired skills he would receive raises. the man thought for a moment and then told my husband that no, he would rather stand on the street corner holding his sign, because he could make more money just standing there and would not have to do physical labor. near the mans outpost were several fastfood places with "help wanted" signs- my husband asked him if he had thought about getting a job at any of those businesses-the man reiterated that he could just stand on the corner and people would give him money, so why should he get a job?

story #2- hubby and i stopped in bradenton, fl at a gas station. there was a man standing at the road, holding a sign"will work for food" at the entrance to the shopping center. i remained in the car while my husband filled up the tank and also while he went in to go to the bathroom and get drinks for us. during this time, the man with the sign goes into the gas station store, comes back out with one of those big cans of beer.he walks around the side of the free standing carwash. another man comes out from behind the carwash, assumes the position on the road of the original man and holds up the "will work for food sign". i guess it was 2nd shift.

story #3-my family and my mother were in a schlotzsky's in tallahassee. as i was paying for our food, a man, who appeared to be homeless, was scrounging in his pockets for some change to buy a bowl of soup. i leaned over to the girl waiting on me, and whispered that i would like to pay for whatever that man would like to eat, but i wanted to remain anonymous. i gave her a $20 and said just to bring me the change after the man left. she undoubtedly told the man who had paid for his food, because he came up to our table and thanked us. then the girl brought me the change-he had only bought a bowl of soup. it was a very humbling experience for me.

point is, there are scammers out there-sorry people who would rather degrade themselves than try to earn an honest living. then there are those people who truly need a little help. if the situation feels right to you and you are in a position to help, do so. if the situation feels bogus or you feel uncomfortable for some reason, don't feel obligated to help.

those of us who work are contributing tax dollars to social services that are available to people in need. many of us also contribute to charitable institutions which provide social services to people in need. just tithing at church can go a long way toward helping one person down on their luck. it is our choice if and how we choose to spend our money.

I can't really pass judgement on homeless people, mainly because I don't understand it. How can you allow yourself to get that poor? Did they choose that kind of life? (I've heard stories of people who purposely did this so they wouldn't have to pay bills, taxes etc.) I'm not trying to be insensitive or anything like that. I understand that everyone's situation may be different but like Kevin said, there are shelters etc. that are available to people who need the assistance. And while I don't know what everyone does with there spare change they get from strangers, a lot of people do go right back to the store to get alcohol and drugs. That's probably what landed their butt on the streets in the first place.

As far as the 'can beggars be choosy' question, my neutrality is really kicking in. I mean, let's be real here-you're POOR. It seems to me that a poor person would get whatever they could take. But then again, they're human beings as well and they deserve quality living. I don't know. I'm straddling the fence.

Believe it or not, but New York City does not have a monopoly on services available for the homeless and unemployed. We have fewer here (obviously) and are probably better able to handle them. I was complaining about downtown OKC which is a far cry from NYC. It may come as a surprise to you that we have different programs and opportunities for the unemployed down here.

I'd imagine as much. One can rent out a tiny efficiency for in the neighborhood of $300/month. It doesn't take nearly as much to get back on one's feet here. A fast food salary will definitely pay the rent.

The word "privileged" implies that I've inherited my financial status or something. That's ridiculous. Am I privileged to work 5 days a week and to go to school at night racking up massive student loans? No. I just work my ass off. Perhaps these folks don't have the raw material to go to law school, but they sure as hell can turn in half the effort I do and stock shelves at a grocery store.

And I guess they'd have to be content to do that. To each his own.

Well, that's not happening, so your situation is hypothetical while mine is current. That stupid people "wise up" is doubtful.

I'm sure you'd like to see that. But no. I suppose if worse came to worse, my folks have a six bedroom house, so I'm sure they could find space for me.

So you're saying that your average homeless person begging for money is more likely to use it to buy a sandwich at McDonald's because they're tired of soup than on drugs?

As I said, there are those who do not want to work or clean them selves up because they find it easier, and their are those who are left in the cracks whether it becaus of physcological or physical problems!

I will never become that way and That Is My Decission!:mad:

My favorite Houston homeless guy is the one who sits by the side of I-10 and holds a sign requesting "2 cheeseburgers and a diet Coke".

Before all of GC crucifies Kevin, there was a segment on a local news broadcast almost a year ago in my area that "highlighted" panhandlers.

There was a woman and man (tagteam!) that would stand at busy intersections and ask for money and were quoted when they said "I think I can make more money here in a day than if I got a real job, so this is what I choose to do"

WTF!

So you're gonna stand there and make tax-free money while I bust my ass at work everyday?

Hmmmm I think not.

no actually it doesnt.

if a fast food salary "definitely" paysfor the rent in OKC, then parents should start kicking out their teenagers now. and if that's the case, why dont you go pick up a McDonalds application? i HIGHLY doubt minimum wage food industry pays enough to pay rent... then again it is OKC. sooooooo, maybe you have a point.



well, you were priveledged enough to be able to go to college, which barely 25% of Americans get the chance to. you're priveledged enough to have a job that allows you to bust your ass to pay back student loans. hell, youre priveledged enough to even qualify for loans. AND, dont give me that BS of "what do you mean im priveledged?" out of one side of your mouth and then say some ish like now i dont know many who come from 6-bedroom homes. but i cant imagine the loose change out the bottom of your pocket is any skin off your (or your family's) back. but your 6-bedroom house could be a total shack and your folks could be on welfare. tell me im wrong so you can prove me right that maybe there IS a twinge of priveledge in your blood.

we'll ive seen an equal # of homeless with their day's worth of change in Mcdonalds scraping for the dollar menu as i have in a liquor store buying cheap vodka. so... take what you want from that.

I'll paypal each of you $1 to shutup.

-Rudey
--Thanks.

Has anyone said "There but for the grace of God go I" in this thread yet? If not, I did.