Does being a sophomore or above matter when looking to join a fraternity?
 

I was just wondering if your school class correlates with your acceptance rate into a fraternity. I realize that some fraternities do not mind, but I was more or less interested in hearing about what southern fraternities think about it, esp. at LSU.

It really depends on the school and the chapter. Some places being a junior won't matter, but at a lot of places it raises a lot of red flags.

If I had to guess (given the culture of Southern Fraternity life, and even just at other big greek schools like my own) @ LSU, it probably matters. Being a sophomore is likely not an automatic deal breaker, but being a junior is.

In my chapter at a more northerly school, we routinely rushed sophomores, if they were an excellent fit, but didn't give them quite the benefit of the doubt we gave freshmen. We had one junior go through rush while I was in the chapter, and he really didn't have a chance. There were plenty of questions: why now? how is he going to mesh with his pledge brothers? how is going to handle having to do study hours and the other things required during pledge semester, when he's already had 2 years on his own? what about his other friends, are we essentially a free party for them? What happens when he turns 21, is he just going to ditch his pledge class? What is he really going to bring to the house and his pledge class in only 2 years?

Those were the types of things we looked at. In the end, the guy was a jackass so we didn't have to worry about it, but the experience and going through those types of questions pretty much made everyone's minds up not to rush juniors in the future.

If you're a sophomore, then certainly rush, but if you're a junior, then you better have some good reasons and be able to answer some of the questions posed above.

I go to LSU and being a sophmore is not a huge deal when you are going through rush. Just be sure to have some kind of reason like your parents wouldn't let you due to grades or you transfered. While it is more traditional to rush as a freshmen, you should already know some people since you are a sophmore, so that might actually help your chances. Will you be rushing next fall or this spring. Waiting until junior year is pretty rare and unless you are good friends with some people, it would be pretty tough to get into a top house, but some of the smaller fraternities would still be interested. Send me a message if you have any other questions.

Being concerned with my grades was kind of the case with me not going through rush at the beginning. Once I'm dedicated to something, I want to put everything I have in it, and I was anxious I would hurt my grades. I'm a sophomore right now, but I'm switching my major this semester, which is definitely going to push me back a year, and not to mention I had to resign last semester because of reasons. So I probably still have a bit of time left in college hah. If I were to go through rush it would probably be in the fall semester this year. I definitely understand where you were coming from with questioning that one guy bigredbeta, I'm just hoping it isn't like that with me if I decide to go through with it because I definitely don't want to do it because of the free rides into parties.

Let me guess, 3rd tier bottom feeder.
Yes it absolutely does matter. If you know we hate the spring's because they rushed in the spring instead of the 1st semester, what do you think we think about sophomores rushing in the fall?

I didn't realize some chapters took what year you were so seriously.

Do you guys subscribe to some wierd formal rush rule that limits the amount of people you can take?

So if you have some real athletic guy with a cool personality and acceptable grades you will disqualify him based on his year even if you have space in the chapter?

Why?

Being a sophomore is not a deal breaker at AU or UGA, but it does raise eyebrows. Some top tier places may not give you a chance because of it. If you're a junior, its unlikely you'll get in a decent place.

Edit: the best shot for a sophomore is to have a valid reason for not pledging their first reason and be well connected to the previous pledge class. The only non-freshmen we took were a couple of people who had a lot of friends in the pledge class before them, but for some reason couldn't rush their first year. Usually those guys would come to parties and what not, so most of the brothers were already friends with them. Thats the only time you really saw non freshmen come through.

Wow, I am surprised to hear so many negatives. At Illinois, there were a fair number of guys who transferred in from community college and pledged as juniors. I understand some of the concerns brought up by BigRed, but as a general rule, wouldn't you rather have a decent guy than an empty space?

My boyfriend pledged and was initiated in his 5th year here at Tech. :p His fraternity has taken in several 4th and 5th years (5+ years is perhaps more common than here than 4...lots of engineers and co-ops and such)...as long as they truly want to make the committment now, that's what matters.

Also, as a 4th year now myself, I'm a new member of the local sorority on campus, but that's a whole different ball game. I think of it this way: I needed the first few years to grow as an individual, to kind of find out who I am and want to be. Then I realized that this sorority fit into that vision. :)

We don't really have empty spaces. We take who we want. We're not trying to fill any void.

Just because we pass on an older guy doesn't mean we have an empty space.

Regardless of his class rank, if a man is worthy of a bid he will most likely receive a bid. And part of worthy may include having a valid (good) reason as to why he didn't rush (join) as a freshman.

And as others have said, there isn't an empty space to fill. IFC/NIC fraternities do not have quota or total. Frankly, if a chapter *needs* to fill an empty space, it most likely has bigger issues than a man's class status to deal with. Most likely financial issues.

It would be sad to think that an outstanding person because of year of class could not be accepted for that reason only is silly.

It can be the same for an A I (Alum Associate) who later becomes not only a strong member, but very important one for their Organization.

It is ideal to have a new young member that can be trained and spend his time and knowledge over a period of time, but there is always one who can be a spark plug who can help hold a chapter together in times of strife as we all go through.

Elephant, you were a bit off in your guess about me. I'm not going to embarrass my chapter and say what fraternity I am in because I would normally never post on a message board like this but I happened to see a post about a guy at lsu and wanted to help out. If anyone in my chapter knew I looked at this garbage I would never hear the end of it. I know you kappa sigs love talking about how you are the best fraternity here, and even though you all have gotten better in the past few years I can assure you, we get much more respect.
Back to the topic, goldtiger, there are a lot of fraternities at lsu, you may not end up in a top tier especially as a junior, but that is why they have about 20 different houses here, something for everyone.

Here at Arkansas, fraternities definately care if you are a sophomore or junior. However, that doesn't mean that person will not get into a top fraternity. I pledged as a sophomore and had 2-3 other sophomores in my pledge class. A good example are the people that played sports as a freshman that ended up wanting in greek life rather than athletics. I'm actually glad I pledged as a sophomore because now I know 100% that I am in the right house.

ElephantWalk, what fraternity are you in at UA?

That may be true, but the fact is, it does matter some places. There are some groups at some schools that won't take anyone over a sophomore. Fair or not, it's a fact that juniors have to be prepared for if they're thinking of rushing.

what about U's that have deffered rush?

sophmores in the fall, freshmen in the spring...

*Generally speaking*, the more time a person waits to rush, the more difficult it may be to receive a bid.

A sophomore rushing in the fall at a campus with differed "freshman" rush is similar to a freshman rushing in the spring at a campus where the main (formal) rush is in the fall. Both are just one semester "removed" from the first possible time to rush/join.

As such, on some campuses it will not matter. While on others, it may. Again, it depends on the campus culture.

A Kappa Sig from LSU that refuses to re-affiliate with shanes.

Haha, I know a couple of Kappa Sigs at Arkansas.......definitely shanes.

What Are Shanes, I do not know?? :confused: :D

Please Share!! :o :p

It's sort of an inside greek life joke in Arkansas. I had heard of them as shanes way before I went to LSU, in high school. It's a reference to this guy named Shane that was met in Panama City(which is filled of these kind of kids), and he was the typical gel-head and so on.

edit: He was the typical kind of kid the KE's usually take and why they're made fun of generally in Greek Life, even though they're a supposedly good chapter.

Yeah, i've met so many people that proclaim them the top house at Arkansas. Not sure why, but it seems ridiculous.

I'm a Kappa Sig at Arkansas and know of 2 guys in the whole chapter that gel their hair...We give them shit about it everyday. Typically these few "shanes" are the ones that slip through during rush. I know of a couple "shanes" but i'd say your assumption is completely wrong. On top of that, the only negative thing I have heard about the Xi chapter is that a lot of members are arrogant and cocky...but never gelheads

Okayyyyyy, you say that you refuse to re-affiliate, but you have previously stated:

1- You were at the house on AOPi's bid night. You said the AOPi's came over to your place and partied.

2 - You were with Kappa Sigma on their bid night. You said y'all took them to the lake and hazed the sh** out of them.

3 - You said you lived in the house this past December.


So, you hang out with these "Shanes" but refuse to affiliate with them?

2....

1)Definately did not go to any lake or get hazed on bid day...
2)I haven't met any transfer student from LSU that lived in the house this past year.
3)A) I know quite of few AOPi's...On this campus, AOPi's are relatively new and do not come over that often.
B) At Arkansas, the sorority bid day is before school starts and (if i remember correctly) happens right around (if not before) the house is even open to move back in.

In other threads, you say at "our" chapter we do this and that referring to Arkansas Xi...and now you are talking shit about "our" chapter? If you seriously think this...then you are not a part of MY chapter

I'm not trying to start anything or call you out, but don't rag on a chapter of YOUR fraternity that is far superior to the one you transferred from.

For those that asked...

We've never needed to "fill space" in my chapter. Our chapter house is usually full with several juniors actually having to live out because we don't have the space. We do summer rush, so our pledges live in, but we only have spots for 21, and if we want to go bigger we have to find pledges that want to live out. In the time since I was a freshman, till now (6 pledge classes total) we've had only 1 class that started out below 21, which was a year in which the rush chairs' performance was an anomaly, combined with very low numbers of guys going through to begin with.


Are there possible exceptions in the future that we might take a junior? Sure, but it seems unlikely. Not to sound cocky, but given our campus involvement (just greeks in general at my school), if a guy did go through as a junior that on paper appeared to be a good fit for my chapter, we'd probably have someone who already knew him and would likely know the reasons he would or would not be worth a bid. Thinking about it personally, if it was me that knew the kid and found him to be a great fit, I'd still worry about his commitment to the chapter, what he was looking to get out of joining, and also what sort of things were coming up for him in the future...If it's a kid who is pre-med or pre-law, is he going to spend all second semester studying for the MCAT or LSAT? If he's in business is he going to be doing an internship somewhere during the summer, and thus not be around to help during rush? There's just too many questions that I'd need answered to my satisfaction to believe that the chapter and the man in question would both be helped. Even if the kid was a rockstar, there are just so many things that would go against the dynamic of my chapter...like getting him in to leadership roles within the house (b/c if he's that good at that point, shouldn't he be on the list?). Except that we don't elect pledges to executive positions (they initiate in january, elections are in November). And if he gains a cabinet level position - well the important positions at that level are where we place the future leaders of the chapter so they get some experience and grooming for the future, and then this "awesome guy" is left being the historian, sergeant-at-arms, or public relations chair...pretty much BS positions. (I was historian for a term because I pretty much dominated Beta lore but it's nothing I'd ever list as one of my leadership accomplishments.)

All in all the more I think about the more remote a possibility it becomes for my chapter - not that it wouldn't work at another, even on my campus (the guy who did rush as a junior did sign with another house), just not my chapter.

Key Point!!!

Never leave anyone out, You may never know how strong they can be and what the can do for you.:)

No Quota
 

I can't see why a chapter would vote against a Soph. Fraternities don't have quotas like the NPC's do so if you fit in you should get a bid.

At my school, we had a fair number of men and women who transferred in from two-year colleges. Most of them spent an additional three years on campus. I guess my question was more about people who were new to the campus, rather than guys who hung out for two years without pledging.

well the average graduation time at my alma mater went from 4 to 5 and a half, so yeah, why not?

Same questions apply. Why are you here now. Where did you go originally, why did you leave, etc. Leaving somewhere can indicate things we don't want. I mean if you went to Berkley and decided it was too bleeding heart, that could be a valid excuse. However, if you transfer from Ole Miss to UGA, people are naturally going to make the assumption you couldn't cut it at Ole Miss. Our university is a big part of our fraternity (hence you have southern chapters that would side with another fraternity at their school over one of their own chapters from somewhere else). We also never had any people affiliate.

In rereading and rereading, you have made a good point!

So a Brother of your Fraternity transfers in from A University and you wonder why, then He is left out in the cold so to speak?

Maybe things did not work out at the first school as they did for me and moved on.

I worry that SCHOOLS are more important than Same Fraternity Brothers?

If XYZ or ABC is the most important thing, then where or the proiorties?

How Many Brothers do you know from outside your own Chapter? Are they more important than your school?

Transferred in from a two-year college. Does that not happen at your school?

Delta, sure I guess it happens. Those people usually don't rush. If they did, there would still be questions and concerns.

Tom, yes, my school is more important than my national fraternity to me.

I dated a Kappa Sig when I was a freshman and he definitely was a gel-headed waste of life...

I definitely regretted that relationship!

Your priorities should be to the guys in your chapter. I have plenty of great friends at other chapters throughout the South.....but my chapter here is far more important than SAE nationally.

The problem with you seems to be your narrow mindness.

The world does not revolve around the South of The United States.

So, YOU disrespect Your International? It seems so.

What you do not seem to realize, is that your Chapter Lives and Dies by their decission and those of your Brothers all over.

Have you ever been to a Geneal Assembly of Your Fraternity?

Have You ever had to Vote on closing a Chapter?

Can You make a decission like that?

This is exactly why I don't like responding to you....you have the reading comprehension skills of a piece of bark. I'm narrow minded because my priorities are with the chapter in which I pledged? You are an idiot.

I never said it did dumbass. At what point in my response did I say anything like that? What the hell is wrong with you? I live in the South, if you didn't realize that. My friends all go to schools in the South. Southern Greek life and chapters in the South are what I know. Sorry if I'm not going to pretend that i'm big time SAE buddies with every guy at every chapter nationwide.

Are you kidding me? You equate loyalty to your own chapter as showing disrespect to the overall organization? Sweet God you are a moron. Please explain this to me because my head is about to explode.

No Tom......people at other schools don't have any pull over what happens with our chapter. Me and my fraternity brothers at Texas have that control. The decisions that WE make as a chapter are what we "live and die by".

Why do you write mindless crap like this? Nothing about any of this has to do with this thread or even the question that you posed. You asked a very simple question...........and the response you got wasn't what you wanted to hear. I would imagine if I said something along the lines of "Oh gee willikers, every SAE at every school in the country is my eternal brother and I will look upon him the same as I do my brothers at my respective chapter. Its ok that they don't have anything in common with me and don't share the same ideals because their SAE's!!!!!!" "Also, everytime I hear of a chapter closing, my heart breaks and my tears weep in sorrow for my unfortunate Phi Alpha SAE Brothers."

If you are going to be a moron and type out sputtering sentence fragments and one line rebuttals.........don't bother.