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-   -   Frat brothers get prison for paddling pledge (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=84333)

BlueEyedButrfly 01-30-2007 01:36 PM

Frat brothers get prison for paddling pledge
 
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (Jan. 30) - Two fraternity brothers who paddled a pledge with wooden canes received a two-year prison term each Monday from a judge who said she wanted to send a message with the state's first prosecution under a felony hazing law.

Florida A&M University students Michael Morton, 23, of Fort Lauderdale, and Jason Harris, 25, of Jacksonville, were led from the courtroom in handcuffs, as was Harris' lawyer, Richard Keith Alan II, who was charged with indirect criminal contempt.

The students were charged with hazing Marcus Jones, 20, of Decatur, Ga., who suffered a broken ear drum and severe bruising to his buttocks after he was punched and struck with wooden canes.

Circuit Judge Kathleen Dekker said that one year might have been sufficient to punish Morton and Harris but that she added a second year to make sure that their sentences serve as a deterrent.

A jury in December convicted both under the new law, which makes it a felony to participate in hazing that results in serious bodily injury.

They could have from 12 months to five years under sentencing guidelines.

It was the second trial for Morton, Harris and three other Kappa Alpha Psi members. The first jury was unable to reach a verdict for any of the five defendants after raising questions about serious bodily injury, which is not defined in the law. The second jury also was unable to reach a verdict for the other three defendants, and they are to be tried a third time in March.


Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.

Tom Earp 01-30-2007 06:07 PM

So, do not do it!

Guess it goes to show that so you so the crime then you do the time!

JonInKC 01-30-2007 06:48 PM

They're about to experience hazing taken to a whole new level.

Unregistered- 01-30-2007 07:05 PM

From the CNN article:

Quote:

Pregnant fiancee pleads for Morton's release

Morton told the judge that he grew up without a father in his home and asked to be released so he could be a father to his unborn child.


His fiancee, Lena Gallego, tearfully told the judge that she was more than four months pregnant and that Morton would never again appear in court unless it was to marry her.
Don't send her baby daddy to jail! :rolleyes:

Drolefille 01-30-2007 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTW (Post 1391708)
From the CNN article:



Don't send her baby daddy to jail! :rolleyes:

Saw that. I feel bad for the kid, but if he's supposed to be mature enough to raise a child, he shouldn't be beating people.

valkyrie 01-30-2007 07:10 PM

Two years seems excessive to me.

Unregistered- 01-30-2007 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueEyedButrfly (Post 1391487)
Circuit Judge Kathleen Dekker said that one year might have been sufficient to punish Morton and Harris but that she added a second year to make sure that their sentences serve as a deterrent.

They could have from 12 months to five years under sentencing guidelines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by valkyrie (Post 1391711)
Two years seems excessive to me.

True, but that extra year was thrown in there because the judge doesn't want others to do the same thing.

Sadly, I doubt that this case will stop hazing altogether. Chapters will continue this bullshit.

But as JoninKC said -- they're about to receive a new kind of hazing in prison.

AlphaFrog 01-31-2007 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTW (Post 1391708)
From the CNN article:



Don't send her baby daddy to jail! :rolleyes:

Here's the thing:
She's 4 months pregnant, so his sentance will be about 1/4 over by the time she gives birth. Then the kid will be without a father for a year and a half. Boohoo. That kid will not remember if it had a father for at least the first 3-4 years of it's life. Can you remember anything that happened to you before preschool & kindergarten? It's not that serious if he really wants to be a father.

DSTRen13 01-31-2007 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog (Post 1391949)
Here's the thing:
She's 4 months pregnant, so his sentance will be about 1/4 over by the time she gives birth. Then the kid will be without a father for a year and a half. Boohoo. That kid will not remember if it had a father for at least the first 3-4 years of it's life. Can you remember anything that happened to you before preschool & kindergarten? It's not that serious if he really wants to be a father.

I don't think it's unreasonable for a mother to want the father of her child to be with her during the pregnancy, birth, and first years of the child's life. I guess it's a matter of opinion, but to me, that is definitely that serious.

(Maybe someone can explain this to me - the "victims" in these hazing cases all are willing participants, correct? So how is this something that anyone can be legally punished for? I'm sure that there is an explanation, but I've never really heard it, and I was just wondering about that.)

AKA2D '91 01-31-2007 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTW (Post 1391715)
But as JoninKC said -- they're about to receive a new kind of hazing in prison.

My chapter soror made a similar joke about that. Although, the situation is not funny, I did chuckle. :o

Drolefille 01-31-2007 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSTRen13 (Post 1392034)
I don't think it's unreasonable for a mother to want the father of her child to be with her during the pregnancy, birth, and first years of the child's life. I guess it's a matter of opinion, but to me, that is definitely that serious.

(Maybe someone can explain this to me - the "victims" in these hazing cases all are willing participants, correct? So how is this something that anyone can be legally punished for? I'm sure that there is an explanation, but I've never really heard it, and I was just wondering about that.)

I think it was mentioned in the article that the law just recently passed bans the use of "willing participant" as an excuse. The idea being that you are peer pressured into it, and when it comes down to it, it's not ok to assault someone no matter what.

If someone dies after participating in activity that they were a willing particpant in (but they didn't expect to die) is there no fault? Or should someone be responsible.

AlphaFrog 01-31-2007 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSTRen13 (Post 1392034)
I don't think it's unreasonable for a mother to want the father of her child to be with her during the pregnancy, birth, and first years of the child's life. I guess it's a matter of opinion, but to me, that is definitely that serious.

People in hell want icewater. So?

This woman's baby-daddy is a convicted felon. Should all felons get off their sentence so they can be baby-daddies?? Regardless of your opinion of hazing being a felony, it is, and he got caught, so he has to pay the price.

squirrely girl 01-31-2007 01:24 PM

i think a busted ear drum qualifies as serious bodily harm. not cool.

Drolefille 01-31-2007 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squirrely girl (Post 1392056)
i think a busted ear drum qualifies as serious bodily harm. not cool.

It's never happened to me but I've had earaches before and all I can think of is DAMN that would hurt like hell. Worse than bruises for me.

ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl 01-31-2007 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSTRen13 (Post 1392034)
I don't think it's unreasonable for a mother to want the father of her child to be with her during the pregnancy, birth, and first years of the child's life. I guess it's a matter of opinion, but to me, that is definitely that serious.

(Maybe someone can explain this to me - the "victims" in these hazing cases all are willing participants, correct? So how is this something that anyone can be legally punished for? I'm sure that there is an explanation, but I've never really heard it, and I was just wondering about that.)

It's not unreasonable, but we all know that's not the way it works. I just hope she has a good support system through her family and friends, because raising a child alone is hard. Heck, raising a child with dad at home is hard work. I don't blame her for trying, even though she has to know it's a lost cause. But who she should be upset with, really, is her fiancee.

I've read a million policies on hazing from the school, glos, etc. It seems like the "hazee" is also held responsible if they allow the event to occur, but to a lesser extent. I think that's fair. (I also think "hazing" encompasses things that should not be considered hazing, but bodily harm most certainly should.) I love my sisters, but you better believe during my term as a new member if I had been physically hurt, been forced to do things that affected my school work, been forced to publically humiliate myself, they wouldn't have been able to get my to participate. I'd be out of there in a heart beat.

ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl 01-31-2007 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 1392063)
It's never happened to me but I've had earaches before and all I can think of is DAMN that would hurt like hell. Worse than bruises for me.

It does. My ex got a bad infection and ended up having his ear drum burst. He actually cried. And pain doesn't get to him...he's a pain junkie. It was bad.

Drolefille 01-31-2007 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl (Post 1392071)
It does. My ex got a bad infection and ended up having his ear drum burst. He actually cried. And pain doesn't get to him...he's a pain junkie. It was bad.

owwwwww, i'm cringing :(

Judgemitch 01-31-2007 01:46 PM

Hazing Laws
 
44 states have laws prohibiting hazing. Every state has a law prohiting the intentional, negligent, or reckless injury of another person. Many of those hazing laws, Florida included, specifically state that the "victim's" consent is not a defense. Why?

We tell every prospective member that we do not haze. This creates in the mind of that person a belief that we will not hurt them. We also tell them that they must trust us. The combination of a promise and the requirement to trust results in a reliance that no harm will come.

Civil courts in many parts of the country have also opined that one cannot "consent" to a harmful activity when in the process of trying to fit in, be a part of the group, and proving oneself.

The bottom line is that no matter what you or I may believe SHOULD be allowed, hazing is prohibited by every campus, every glo and the civil laws of every state and the criminal laws of most.

Judge Mitch Crane
Sigma Phi Epsilon

DSTRen13 01-31-2007 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl (Post 1392069)
I've read a million policies on hazing from the school, glos, etc. It seems like the "hazee" is also held responsible if they allow the event to occur, but to a lesser extent. I think that's fair. (I also think "hazing" encompasses things that should not be considered hazing, but bodily harm most certainly should.) I love my sisters, but you better believe during my term as a new member if I had been physically hurt, been forced to do things that affected my school work, been forced to publically humiliate myself, they wouldn't have been able to get my to participate. I'd be out of there in a heart beat.

Yes, this is what I was thinking --- the policies I have seen of various campuses and groups all have consequences for both hazers and "hazees". I didn't understand how the legal system had it set up, since apparently it only punishes one side (and IMO, hazing cannot exist without two sides). Judge Mitch, thank you for your explanation --- that was very informative and helped a lot! :)

Tom Earp 01-31-2007 04:37 PM

Consent among so called Adults is not always a defense especially when a person is either violated or harmed.

In this case, "The Pledges/Pledge" were harmed!

it is usually stated by either the School or The GLO that Hazing is not allowed!

This is basically assault or bodily harm on a person. If it is with a weapon such as a paddle, then it is with a weapon and a felony. That makes it prison time!

Now I am sure these members will come out of prison worse than when they went in!:confused:

Not smarter but vindictive.:o

macallan25 01-31-2007 04:56 PM

Tom, good Lord.......read the two posts above you. They weren't talking about "consent" as defense for the hazers. They were shedding light on the fact that both the hazers and the one who gets hazed can get into trouble on some campuses.

Tom Earp 01-31-2007 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macallan25 (Post 1392203)
Tom, good Lord.......read the two posts above you. They weren't talking about "consent" as defense for the hazers. They were shedding light on the fact that both the hazers and the one who gets hazed can get into trouble on some campuses.

No stuff, they are in prison!

So, what the heck is your problem?:rolleyes:

macallan25 01-31-2007 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Earp (Post 1392215)
No stuff, they are in prison!

So, what the heck is your problem?:rolleyes:

"I'll tell you my problem.......you not getting the ball in the hole." -Bob Barker


I don't even know why I respond to you. Your comprehension skills are about as good as a dead prairie dog.

Tom Earp 01-31-2007 05:27 PM

WOW, is this a mind set physco test?:eek:

valkyrie 01-31-2007 05:36 PM

Speaking of Bob Barker, please remember to spay and neuter your crazy people.

Also, I think it's ridiculous that the law doesn't allow adults to consent to being hazed and paddled if that's what they're into.

33girl 01-31-2007 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valkyrie (Post 1392227)
Also, I think it's ridiculous that the law doesn't allow adults to consent to being hazed and paddled if that's what they're into.

ZIPPY ZAMBONI!!

macallan25 01-31-2007 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Earp (Post 1392223)
WOW, is this a mind set physco test?:eek:

Yes, this is a physco test.

Tom Earp 01-31-2007 07:31 PM

And, I am Impresseedeed!:rolleyes:

macallan25 01-31-2007 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Earp (Post 1392328)
And, I am Impresseedeed!:rolleyes:

What does that feel like?

Tom Earp 02-01-2007 05:21 PM

Go To Your Doctor and Bend Over!:D

See if He can find anything that resembles brians from where He may stick his thremommyator!:)

macallan25 02-01-2007 07:59 PM

Down Syndromed, Epileptic Monkey - 3 Tom Earp - 0

OOhsoflyDELTA#9 02-01-2007 09:34 PM

I love that damn monkey!!! :D

SigmaPezY60 02-03-2007 12:19 AM

I'm sure the Fraternity brothers involved didn't just say "don't forget to come to the beating event tomorrow" I imagine that once the hazee was being beaten it would not have been that simple to have the courage to tell them to stop, for fear that they would cause more excessive bodily harm.

Whether a person agrees to be hazed or not, does not make it less of a crime. If the "baby daddy" cared about his future he would not have participated in hazing activities and he certainly would have done his best to prevent hazing in his chapter.

I do feel bad for the mother and her child. But children are very resilient. And perhaps this guy will think about his actions when he'll have to expain to his child why he was put in prison...how the choices you make can ruin your future.

i don't care if it's a fraternity, sport, club, or group of friends....it is NEVER okay to harm a person. and i support this judge's decision.

XiLove_Epsilon 02-26-2007 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSTRen13 (Post 1392034)
I don't think it's unreasonable for a mother to want the father of her child to be with her during the pregnancy, birth, and first years of the child's life. I guess it's a matter of opinion, but to me, that is definitely that serious.

(Maybe someone can explain this to me - the "victims" in these hazing cases all are willing participants, correct? So how is this something that anyone can be legally punished for? I'm sure that there is an explanation, but I've never really heard it, and I was just wondering about that.)

I am completely with you on this one. Who's fault is it that some stupid kids went along with this? I mean, the chapters shouldn't haze but those kids should say no or do something.


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