Sexual orientation and MS
 

Someone asked this over in the Theta forum, and apparently we have some curious people....

Which GLOs have non-discrimination bylaws for sexual orientation (if you are allowed to say - but I believe this is usually open info)?

Alpha Sigma Alpha voted last convention to add sexual orientation to the list of non-discrimination bylaws.

Sigma Chi HQ has had a lot of discussion on this. I want to say that they passed some kind of resolution, but did not put it into the by-laws.

It is not specifically written into the by-laws of my sorority, but our panhellenic association has the language in theirs. Also, due to the campus culture of Otterbein, you've got to expect to have GLBTQ students rushing and getting bids. It's just how we work and there's little stigma attached to it. People who are uncomfortable with the lifestyle transfer out pretty quick.

I have no idea if our nationals have talked about this or not, but I'm pretty sure we would continue a tradition of not listening to them.

LXA has no discrimination of any kind in our by-laws.:)

Me too. What does MS refer to, in the context of this thread? I'm confused. :confused:

In other news, I mined this from Tri-Delta's website:
"Non-Discrimination Policy:
In the selection of members, Delta Delta Delta does not discriminate on any basis other than gender, and expressly will not discriminate on the basis of ethnic heritage, national origin, personal appearance, personal beliefs, race, religion, or sexual orientation."

The thing is, even if a GLO has policies on this issue, if someone didn't receive an invitation to membership and they believed that the reason was because of their sexual orientation, it would likely be extremely difficult to prove, since membership selection is (or should be) done in secret and kept within the chapter as chapter business.

I'm assuming Membership Selection.

Ah yes....thank you.

Why should it matter? Doesn't the chapter decide on chapter membership?

Generally speaking, each chapter has a mandate from their IHQ to select membership as best fits the specific chapter. As such, just because a GLO might have non-discrimination clauses in their bylaws, does not mean that a specific chapter would be required to take someone that the chapter feels would not be a good fit.

I'm not sure whether or not it'd matter. Whether or not it matters is up to the active brothers. It's possible that it could be one of the criterion examined in membership selection. Whether or not anyone could prove that, as said above is an interesting question. Although we voted to integrate racially back around '68 or so, we probably have a few chapters which have never admitted a non-white member.

Policies of a couple of GLOs:

Sigma Phi Epsilon:
http://www.sigep.org/
(use their site's search tools to find By-Laws, I, 1a.)

Delta Delta Delta:
http://www.deltadeltadelta.org/about/policies.asp

Delta Upsilon: See By-Laws, Article II, Sec. 2:
http://deltau.org/default.aspx?actio...t&ContentId=90

Beta Theta Pi:
http://www.betathetapi.org/index.php...d=23&Itemid=47

(click on Code link, go to Constitution, Article II, Section 3)


Pi Kappa Phi:

http://www.pikapp.org/AboutUs/seven/diversity.cfm

“WHERE PI KAPPA PHI STANDS ON RACIAL, RELIGIOUS AND ETHNIC DIVERSITY

The United States of America is fortunate to have one of the most diverse populations in the world. Here, people of all races, religions ethnicities, disabilities, sexual orientations, HIV status, and any further protected statuses contribute to the collective achievements of our nation and our colleges.

Pi Kappa Phi Fraternity chapters are encouraged to seek out new brothers of all backgrounds. While our fraternal origins are based on Judeo-Christian traditions, the fraternity asks that all members and non-members (regardless of belief) join in respect for the beliefs of all. This Fraternity shall only discriminate on the basis of gender.”

Me three. My daughter has MS and I was like WHAT???!!!!! :(

I would imagine that was flamboyantly gay would likely not "fit" in with most fraternity chapters. I think that the type of situation that having a sexual orientation clause is trying to prevent is when a potential member comes through rush, everyone thinks he's cool, the chapter is set to offer a bid, and then it somehow becomes known that he is openly homosexual. If the chapter then changes their minds simply on the fact that the kid in question is no longer welcome, that's not right in my opinion.

That's what these clauses are really getting at is not that chapters have to extend bids to individuals in these categories, just that they won't reject qualified candidates (who otherwise fit everything the chapter is trying to do) simply because they are of a different race, orientation or whatever.

One of my pledge brothers (who served terms as Pledge Ed and President) came out last fall (after we had all graduated), and nothing really changed - he was still the same guy we'd all known. In fact, I think he might actually be more fun to hang around with simply b/c he is much more at ease, and I think happier with himself. It would have been a mistake for my chapter not to give him a bid simply b/c of his sexual preference.

BigRedBeta has it totally right. It's not that we have to give anyone who is gay and rushing a bid, or that we should "seek out" gay people to join - simply that we shouldn't not bid them on that alone if we like everything else about them.

At a larger school not too many miles from Otterbein, while the campus culture may be a little different, it's certainly possible for an openly gay student to be in a fraternity. This article in the Columbus OH paper may be of interest, though it doesn't go into details of whether the young man is super-active in his fraternity:

http://www.dispatch.com/news-story.p...619-C1-04.html

Dude, just imagine how many hot female friends he would have. You may rethink what you are saying.

This is the most honest post in this thread. We can talk all we want about our (inter)National offices and their policies against discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation, but it always comes down to the campus culture.

I understand it makes (some of) us feel all warm and fuzzy to point at progressive national policies, but come on...

Not that you'll usually see me sticking up for AlphaFrog, but this is a fairly common GC acronym, particularly used in the rush forum.

And I'm sorry that you are too much of a n00b to figure out that I am a woman.

Welcome to GC, you'll do much better here if you develop a sense of humor.

I realized this far too late, apologies, and I do have a very good sense of humor, I don't see how one would make it through a fraternity/sorority without one.

As far as I know, Chi Omega does not have any anti-discrimination bylaws or additions in our rule book.

We don't have any openly gay sisters in my chapter, but I know that there are both gays and lesbians in NPC and IFC chapters at my school and it's pretty much a non-issue.

If a woman went through recruitment and made it known that she was a lesbian, she would not have any less (or more) of a chance to recieve a bid.

Unfortunately, will all the rampant greek stereotypes, especially at my school, I feel like if someone was LGBTQ, they would think that they would not be accepted into a sorority and then would opt out of going through recruitment.

haha, but true.

Here is a list I found on the Lambda 10 project website. You it is a list of Frats and Sorors with some policy regarding orientation/preference.

The Lambda 10 Project has identified these fraternities and sororities as being "OUT in Front" on sexual orientation issues. Please call or email your inter/national headquarters and help us update the listing with new and accurate information. You can email us at info@lambda10.org. If you want GLB-specific sample questions to ask your fraternity/sorority, click here. Help us continue to grow the “OUT in Front” listing...
ALPHA PHI OMEGA FRATERNITY
Alpha Phi Omega includes the words "sexual preference," not sexual orientation in it's "Sexual Harassment/Abuse/Discrimination" policy. It reads as follows: "The fraternity will not tolerate or condone any form of abusive or discriminatory behavior on the part of its Members, whether physical, mental or emotional in respect to sex, race, ethnicity, physical or emotional handicap, age, marital status or sexual preference. This is to include any actions, which are deemed to be demeaning to all but not limited to date/gang rape or verbal harassment."
ALPHA SIGMA ALPHA SORORITY
Alpha Sigma Alpha in 2005 proposed a Resolution to the convention body that "Alpha Sigma Alpha will not bar any woman from membership nor marginalize any members based on their sexual orientation." There was some amazing discussion on the floor and I am very proud to share with you that it passed significantly. While it is just a resolution, it is finally down on paper and we are now prepared to submit this for a Bylaws amendment at the next convention in 2006. In the past, we have always been an organization that was based on inclusion and it was wonderful to hear this welcoming spirit shared through the discussion. It was the first time that we have had conversation on the topic. This was a huge step for ASA.
On July 27, 2006 at the Alpha Sigma Alpha Sorority national convention, the women of Alpha Sigma Alpha Sorority approved adding the bylaw amendment to include sexual orientation in the non discrimination clause. The measure passed hands-down and was only three short of unanimous approval. The bylaw reads:

"Chapters are prohibited from barring admission on the basis of race, color, religion, age, disability, national origin, or sexual orientation."

ALPHA SIGMA PHI FRATERNITY
In 2004, Alpha Sigma Phi Fraternity passed a “Position Statement on Inclusiveness” which stated that “Alpha Sigma Phi is the Fraternity “To Better the Man” and all of her functions and actions are expected to represent this as listed in our Mission Statement and Code of Conduct, and Whereas, Article III, Section 7 of the Constitution states: “No Chapter shall permit discrimination in membership selection, initiation, chapter operations, or other activities of the Fraternity based on any individual’s race, color, creed, religion, disability, or sexual orientation…. it is the continuing position of our Fraternity that membership privileges are open to any qualified man of character without consideration of ethnicity, race, religion, sexual orientation, physical ability, national origin, age, family status, or cultural background.” To read the resolution in it's entireity, click here.
BETA THETA PI FRATERNITY
The Beta Theta Pi Men of Principle program states the following as part of the action plan for chapters: "Implement an educational program for all members that addresses issues relevant to personal, fraternal, and community life. Offer programs on current hot topics and social behavior. Suggested topics include: sexual assault, diversity, culture, lifestyles, STDs, AIDS, herpes, safe sex, testicular cancer, prostrate cancer, alcoholism, etc."
Summer 2006, the undergraduate members of Beta Theta Pi Fraternity unanimously passed an inclusion policy for the fraternity. The follow was place in The Code of Beta Theta Pi:

Be it enacted by the 167th General Convention of Beta Theta Pi that the following be added to Article II of The Constitution:

“SECTION 3. Membership Eligibility: “Membership selection shall not, in any way, be affected or determined by race, color, creed, religion, age, disability, ethnic background, sexual orientation, or national origin.”
Be it enacted by the 167th General Convention of Beta Theta Pi that the following be added to Article II of The Constitution:“SECTION 11. Inclusiveness of the Chapter: “No chapter shall permit discrimination in membership selection, initiation, chapter operations, or other activities of the fraternity based upon any person’s race, color, creed, religion, age, disability, ethnic background, sexual orientation, or national origin.”
One of our undergraduates from the University of Connecticut chapter proposed the change. Several candid discussions took place about sexual orientation during the consideration of the legislation as well as in other programs as well.
Leading up to the Model Initiation program, an undergraduate member came out to the entire audience and told his story about being gay in his chapter. Read transcript from his speech.

CHI PHI FRATERNITY
Provides inclusive new member materials on a variety of issues and does educate new members on "sexual orientation" issues.
CHI PSI FRATERNITY
Constitution states that “2.6 No Discrimination.
No man shall be denied membership in the Fraternity on the basis of his race, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, or disability status.”
DELTA CHI FRATERNITY
July 27, 2006 -- At the 55th International Delta Chi Fraternity Convention, the men of Delta Chi Fraternity officially voted to amend its Constitution to include sexual orientation among its non-discrimination policy, as follows:
DENIAL OF MEMBERSHIP--No person shall be denied membership because of race, color, creed or religion, national origin, or sexual orientation.


DELTA DELTA DELTA SORORITY
August 8, 2002 – Delta Delta Delta unanimously approved a non-discrimination policy in July at the Fraternity’s 50th Convention held in Orlando, Florida. The policy affirms that Tri Delta does not discriminate on any basis other than gender and expressly will not discriminate against any woman based on her ethnic heritage, national origin, personal appearance, personal beliefs, race, religion, or sexual orientation.Delta Delta Delta, one of the founders of the National Panhellenic Conference, is a leader among women’s fraternities. Tri Delta is one of the largest women’s fraternities, with a membership totaling more than 210,000 women. With 133 collegiate chapters and 354 alumnae chapters across the United States and Canada, Tri Delta continues to be internationally recognized for high standards and outstanding accomplishments. The Executive Office of Tri Delta is located in Arlington, Texas. To read Tri Delta’s non-discrimination policy in its entirety, please click here.
DELTA GAMMA SORORITY
Online at Delta Gamm Sorority the national website lists the Lambda 10 Project and it’s resources as well as states “Delta Gamma believes in sisterhood, love, and acceptance of all.” The site is very intentional in it’s commitment to sensitivity and tolerance.
DELTA SIGMA PHI FRATERNITY
Delta Sigma Phi's new member education manual, The Gordian Knot, includes exercises regarding sexual orientation as does the Delta Sigma Phi summer Leadership Institute curriculum. Delta Sigma Phi has an official policy on diversity and human dignity and recently added "sexual orientation" to the membership statement to read: "Membership in each chapter and colony of Delta Sigma Phi Fraternity shall be determined by educational achievement, character, financial responsibility, leadership ability and personal development. Consideration for membership is open to men with regard to race, color, national origin, religion, age, disability, ancestry, citizenship, sexual orientation, marital status or any other classification protected by law or ordinance." DSP also has a policy on HIV/AIDS. To view the policy on diversity and human dignity, click here.
DELTA UPSILON FRATERNITY
Delta Upsilon in their expansion material contains this statement: "Since its inception, Delta Upsilon has held onlyone qualification for membership: merit. Such criterion is blind todifference of race, creed, religion, sexual orientation, physicalattributes, socio-economic status, and national origin."
KAPPA DELTA RHO FRATERNITY
The national constitution states that "... Kappa Delta Rho ... does not discriminate on the basis of ... sexual orientation." The issue is also addressed in the statements on diversity and sexual abuse/harassment in the Pledge Education materials. KDR field staff also go through a very extensive training on sexual orientation and how to address the issue while visiting chapters. A new part of that training is now the required reading of "Out on Fraternity Row," to provide our staff with insight into the life of a gay member in a fraternity. In 1998, with the support of the national staff, an informal network of gay and straight allies was formed to provide support and resources to brothers who have made the decision to come out to their chapters. Another leg of this program is the ability to send trained field staff to the chapter to facilitate programs addressing the issues that they may be facing and to assist in creating an open and accepting environment. Finally, sexual orientation has been a part of the open discussions and directed discussions at our National Leadership School, Regional leadership seminars, and our Advisors' Institute.
KAPPA KAPPA PSI FRATERNITY
Kappa Kappa Psi unanimously voted to add sexual orientation to its discrimination policy at its national convention in 1993 at Purdue University.
LAMBDA CHI ALPHA FRATERNITY
News Brief from Summer 2002: “The committee unanimously feels that this resolution be adopted immediately.” “All those in favor say aye”… A solid forceful “AYE!” “All those opposed” … a few scattered “no”s. And with that, Lambda Chi Alpha stepped its non-discrimination policies into the 21st century. The resolution passed without any discussion whatsoever. In fact it did not seem to be a real issue which stands as a testament to the brothers of Lambda Chi Alpha. At their 49th General Assembly, LCA’s undergraduate body voted nearly unanimously to add religion, sexual orientation and disability to their constitution. The idea for the resolution began after a brother dared to write legislation to bring out what has been known as the “last great taboo” in Lambda Chi Alpha. Several brothers contributed to the effort by spreading the word to their chapters and alumni. Research found that accepting the resolution would bring LCA’s discrimination policies in line with those of 81 of the top 100 fortune 500 companies, and over 80% of our host institutions. The hope of the resolution’s author is that the advance made by the brothers of LCA will serve as an inspiration for other’s in the Greek world. The resolution may be viewed, click here.
PHI DELTA THETA FRATERNITY
Phi Delta Theta includes a session for their "Ambassador tracks" at their annual Leadership College for the discussion of "sexual orientation" issues. One of its' members, Shane L. Windmeyer is the founder/coordinator of the Lambda 10 Project for Gay Greeks (www.lambda10.org) and editor of the first books dealing with being gay, lesbian, bisexual in a college fraternity and sorority, OUT ON FRATERNITY ROW & SECRET SISTERS--another "famous first" for Phi Delta Theta!
PI KAPPA PHI FRATERNITY
Pi Kappa Phi the summer of 2002 passed a resolution regarding the inclusion of sexual orientation. As stated, "Pi Kappa Phi Fraternity will not tolerate or condone any form of sexually abusive behavior (physical, mental, or emotional) or discrimination based on sexual orientation. Furthermore, the Fraternity supports educational programming that promotes healthy attitudes between the sexes and acceptance of sexual orientation. All chapters of the Fraternity must work to provide an atmosphere where proper attitudes and behavior towards sex, sex roles and sexual orientation will be promoted and a respect for human dignity will be of chief priority." The resolution passed without discussion and unanimously. To read the resolution of amendments in it's entireity, click here.
PHI KAPPA TAU FRATERNITY
Phi Kappa Tau has an AIDS-type policy which encompasses the tolerance for sexual orientation. This policy was adopted in 1993.
PHI SIGMA KAPPA FRATERNITY
Provides some educational programming on sexual orientation issues. In January of 2002, the Phi Sigma Kappa Board of Directors added sexual orientation to their employment non-discrimination policy in their employee handbook.
PI KAPPA ALPHA FRATERNITY
Adopted in 2004, the Pi Kappa Alpha Chapter Codes state: “Each chapter shall make a good faith effort to recruit and pledge students representing varied backgrounds. Each chapter shall not discriminate in recruitment or in membership on the basis of race, color, creed, national origin, disability, sexual orientation or religious affiliation.
The Chapter Codes provide the standards by which all chapters in good standing with The Pi Kappa Alpha International Fraternity, an unincorporated association, shall comply in their operations. The Chapter Codes may only be amended by the chapters.”
PSI UPSILON FRATERNITY
Psi Upsilon has included in their educational books some case studies around what to do when a brother comes out to you.
SIGMA ALPHA EPSILON FRATERNITY
Sigma Alpha Epsilon provides a link to The Lambda 10 Project from their Greek Resources Page for the True Gentleman Initiative.
SIGMA CHI FRATERNITY
References sexual orientation in their human dignity statement and recently highlighted a brother "coming out" in their Alumni Magazine.
SIGMA PHI EPSILON FRATERNITY
Sigma Phi Epsilon provides training to chapter consultants on sexual orientation issues and includes diversity education in the Balance Man Initiatives. Sigma Phi Epsilon is one of the largest national fraternities to add "sexual orientation" into it's Bylaws & Constitution. Click here to view the Amendment passed at the Sigma Phi Epsilon Conclave.
SIGMA NU FRATERNITY
The Law of Sigma Nu Fraternity, consideration for membership in the Fraternity is open to any individual who 1)is a man; 2)posses the character and bearing of a gentleman; and 3)is a matriculate of the institution where the chapter is located. Sigma Nu's board of directors interprets this as not precluding an individual from membership consideration based on sexual orientation.
TAU BETA SIGMA FRATERNITY
Tau Beta Sigma added sexual orientation to its discrimination policy at the 25th Biennial National Convention in 1993 at Purdue University. Prohibition of discrimination based on sexual orientation was incorporated into its National Constitution at the 27th Biennial National Convention in Scottsdale, Arizona.
THETA CHI FRATERNITY
Theta Chi Fraternity does include sexual orientation in our membership policy as other organizations have by referencing it as "...regardless of race, sexual orientation, culture, religion, and so forth." et al. We adopted that in1990.
THETA DELTA CHI FRATERNITY
Theta Delta Chi International Fraternity adopted a “Statement of Inclusive Membership and Participation” at their 156th Convention of Theta Delta Chi International Fraternity on August 9, 2003. Highlights of the statement include: “Whereas, Article IV Section 12 of the Theta Delta Chi Constitution was removed by the 102nd Convention of 1949, eliminating the only socially discriminatory restrictions to have ever existed in the selection of her members; therefore be it Resolved, by the Grand Lodge of Theta Delta Chi and its Charges, that membership in the Fraternity and the selection of her pledges, shall be not be determined on the basis of race, creed, color, national origin, religion, age, physical or emotional disability, or sexual orientation.” To read the entire statement, please click here.
THETA PHI ALPHA SORORITY
Theta Phi Alpha’s manual of National Policies has added sexual orientation to its Policy on Non-Discrimination. I don't think there was a lot of fanfare, and it was most likely something that the Grand Council added to the policy.
THETA XI FRATERNITY
On August 2, 1991, Theta Xi Fraternity adopted a “Statement of Position on Human Dignity” which stated “Theta Xi Chapters and individual members shall not tolerate sexual abuse--emotional, verbal or physical--of women, shall neither condone nor participate in hazing activities, shall respect the integrity of those of different religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, physical ability, or political belief.” To read the complete statement, please click here.
ZETA BETA TAU FRATERNITY
Zeta Beta Tau includes a resource titled "What to do if you learn a brother is gay?" in educational materials to members and mentions sexual orientation in it's Code of Ethics.

Me four--I think my big has MS. One of the big baddies, anyhow.

re: membership selection, though--some of our chapter's best members were gay (not to mention some of our favorite "dagger men"). It's no big deal. And we're even in Texas!

DUKyleXY:

That's a great list. Thanks for posting it.

That said, it's a common theme for organizations to say that they do not discriminate for certain reasons. In practice, however, we really do. I'm not saying that sexual orientation is or is not something which comes under consideration, but every chapter of every organization is unique in the way they approach these things.

To say that being gay and out would preclude you from many organizations is absolutely accurate. For example, my organization asks that voting members in the MS process consider whether the potential initiate is a man of high moral character. His sexual orientation in the minds of many brothers might play into that although, accurately, our High Council has pointed out that sexual orientation does not automatically preclude membership.

The bottom line is that while most chapters and organizations do not outwardly discriminate, the MS process is almost always performed behind closed doors under absolute secrecy. No member is required to reveal why or why not he votes the way he does in many cases.

One side of me wants to proclaim that it shouldn't be a big deal. The other side says that the people voting are 19-21 year old kids who are sometimes going to be very prejudiced for whatever reason. A gay/out potential initiate needs to bear that in mind and not have unreasonable expectations.

That said, I would highly discourage someone from keeping that part of his life secret. If you can't get into your organization as the real you, its' probably not for you.

Gay On Fraternity Row
 

I personally am Gay. I made the choice to come out to my chapter a few brothers at a time before I was even Pinned as a pledge. My chapter at the time had at least one man who admitted his homophobia and racism. For me, he and the other men I thought would have a hard time were the last to tell. I began with two of my closest brothers, ironically, although my family does not know, my father was in town that night. We (my brothers and I) went to Perkins and just talked about the problems I had been having with my dad that weekend, and eventually I let them know. From there I just pulled guys aside one or two at a time. I didn't need to tell a few who had already guessed as much, but they were glad I had told them. When it came to the homophobes, I was apprehensive, I did it one at a time with another brother there to support me. In the end it all turned out fine. I have obviously initiated and am well on my way to high positions in the chapter.

However, when it came around to summer recruitment seminars this past spring, my orientation was brought up nonchalantly. A few of the men expressed concerns that there would be potentials who would not want to join a house with a gay man in residence. Let alone room with one. This was a bit unnerving, however, I understood their point of view. We are at a school in the middle of Iowa. Everything turned out ok again!

So really, gay in fraternity MS should not be much of an issue. It all comes back to campus lifestyles and trends.

I'm intrigued that there are more fraternities listed on that list than there are sororities. I'm also really heartened that many of those fraternities have resources on how to react when a brother comes out to you, that's a great idea and a great way to increase sensitivity and tolerance while processing what for many is often difficult news to handle.

My brother has two brothers that are openly gay and I believe one that is bisexual. This did prove to be somewhat of an issue during their last recruitment as three of their nine pledges expressed discomfort over being brothers with openly gay men but got over themselves, and one turned his pledge pin in over the matter (but later wound up getting a bid and initiating in any case). How that situation has turned out, I'm not sure yet because this was at the end of last spring and school hasn't begun yet for this year, but I'm hoping that it doesn't get in the way of the chapter's unity (they're a small chapter and this latest pledge class essentially saved the chapter from near extinction).

And here I thought I was the only one. :(

I hope you don't try to take any of my shine as the resident gay black hottie. Watch yourself, okay?

lol

Do we need to bump up the "Ships on GC thread for y'all?;);):D

For being a fairly conservative ag school in the middle of Iowa, Iowa State is surprisingly accepting of gay members. When I was there, there were a few who were openly gay or came out soon after graduation (to no ones surprise) and to my knowledge, didn't have much of an issue. I'm sure there was talk, as there always is, but it got over pretty quickly.

we have a gay brother


i don't care at all if that's "cool" or not with our local IFC or our IHQ

This is a giant generalization, but I think the women in positions of power in sororities are more likely to have a very conservative bent than the men in those same positions in fraternities.

I agree with 33. I remember I was at a convention for my NPC org and a progressive girl from an Oregon chapter introduced a bill from the floor to change the bylaws to include sexual orientation in the sorority's already existing anti-discrimination laws. There were little old ladies that actually gasped -- no joke. In our sorority the alum chapters each have a vote equal to the active chapters, but because there are about 50% more alum chapters, that kind of keeps the sorority locked in the past a little more.

If it was up to actives only -- I'm sure that girl's bill (or motion) would have passed.

That you know of.

Exactly.

Even groups with no anti-discrimination policies who have no "out to the group" members are likely to have had gay or lesbian members in the past and maybe in the present.

But I don't know how effective anti-discrimination clauses are anyway because the actual membership standards used to assemble a particular new members class are often so subjective as to be inarticulable. No matter what the national standards are, I think all of them rely to some degree on the interaction between PNMs and current members, and awareness of a pnms sexual orientation, if it makes the present member uncomfortable, is likely to make him or her think the pnm's "fit" for the organization isn't right.

I'm not defending this practice, and I believe that members of an organization with anti-discrimination clauses should always internally check themselves to make sure that it's not their own prejudice creeping in, but expecting all undergraduate members to carefully evaluate themselves about one particular PNM in a recruitment with a ton of pnms might be asking more than it seems at first.

In a COB situation or with NPHC intake, you really might be considering a person as an individual on a deep individual level. In a big formal recruitment, not so much.

Exactly. I can't really relate because I go to a VERY liberal school in Western Washington (we were one of two small private colleges on The Advocate's list of top 20 schools for the support of LGBT students. (The other was Oberlin) and I am an active member of BGLAD (Bisexuals, Gays, Lesbians, and Allies for Diversity.) However, I can DEFINITELY understand how a member of a greek organization in a politically conservative area of the country would much rather stay in the closet then face the ridicule that would invariablly occur, which is tragic in my opinion. Especially because sorority sisters/fraternity brothers should support each other unequivocally.

Agreed. My big is a lesbian and my new member educator is also. Our chapter readily accepted this as fact and we even talked about relationship stuff with them like we would if we had boy issues. My big would bring her partner to date parties, formals etc. She was also chapter president and one of the greatest women I know.

It makes me so sad to know that you can stay in the closet, everyone will love you for you but that the one small detail of liking the same sex is enough to turn people off. Apparently we have no sexual orientation clause in our bylaws but I would hope that my sisters all over the country would know better than to turn someone down who would make a fabulous sister just because she's gay.

I think the number of people who actually know a person and love her for being her as long as she is closeted but wouldn't if she were out is really pretty tiny. Although there may be some people who operate that way, surely it wouldn't be the majority on any campus or in any Greek system.

The problem comes in with how recruitment works on many campuses. It's superficial and seems to be about like finding like. To be out during an SEC recruitment (and I'm not sure why it would particularly come up if conversations about boys, booze, bank and Bible are forbidden), I think might mean that your sexual orientation would be your defining characteristic. If the group already knew you as a person because you were an active member's sister or from the same hometown as a lot of members, I think you would get a fair membership evaluation.

But if you are just known as the lesbian PNM, you're taking a risk that it will eclipse other aspects of your identity because it would still be kind of exceptional on some campuses.

Once in the group though, I can't imagine any female group rescinding membership based on orientation.

I think the number of SEC fraternities that would keep a gay pledge is probably smaller than most of us want to think.