Negotiation vs. Settling
 

Inspired by various threads:

What is the difference between negotiating, compromising, and settling? Which "not met ideal qualities" in a prospective mate would fall under each category.

English is my second language, so it is tricky for me to determine the degrees of each word.

What do you mean by "negotiating" in this context? When I think of negotiating, I think of something like this:

Prosecution: Your client must go to prison for five years.
Defense: My client should get probation.
Prosecution: He's a conniving drug dealer! No way!
Defense: He was just selling crack to raise money to support his seven children! Poor guy!
Prosecution: Okay, three years.
Defense: Your case is weak. The cop who arrested him was drunk and not wearing any pants. Do you think a jury is going to believe his testimony?
Prosecution: He was too wearing pants! Okay one year.
Defense: Deal!

You're taking a situation where both parties want a different result and finding a middle ground with which you both can live.

So, in terms of a relationship, I could see negotiating, say, where you'll go on vacation or for dinner, or what kind of wedding you'd have -- is that what you mean? But your question seems to involve qualities of the individuals in the relationship. How do you negotiate that? If that's what you mean, I don't think it's really possible or a good idea.

Negotiating- things that you would prefer to have in a partner but are not absolute musts.

Scandia, you really need to realize that you can walk around with a preconceived list of everything you want in a mate, but it's pretty unlikely you'll end up with that person. I had a very long list of characteristics that a man in my life must have (Irish Catholic, liberal, not a lawyer, pro-choice, blah blah blah) and I met a guy my junior year of college who met every single one of those characteristics and was totally into me. I wanted nothing to do with him. Nice guy, but no chemistry. I've been with my boyfriend for two years - he does not meet a single one of my must haves and violates all of my must-nots - but I love him and we work together, and that's more important than going down an arbitrary checklist.

I'm kind of with valkryie - you negotiate whether you eat Chinese or Mexican for dinner, but you don't negotiate whether your partner wants children. You compromise on eating Indian instead or maybe even on something more serious like two kids instead of 16 (go Duggar family!), but you don't compromise on whether your mate is Catholic or not. And settling is for suckas. If you already feel like you are settling at the beginning of the relationship, how can you expect a marriage or partnership to make it?

I agree with the two previous posters whole heartedly! I had my "list" of what I wanted. My boyfriend meets next to none of them. But he loves me and treats me well and in the end.... that's what's really important. In the end it's not the end of the world that he loves the Yankees and I love the Red Sox... it just means we watch that game in seperate rooms! :) Would I have prefered someone who hated the Yankees? Sure! But in the end he's a great guy with that "flaw"! :p

OK, exactly what did these lists entail?

Because there is a big difference between

"my ideal mate will enjoy classical music as much as I do"

and

"my ideal mate will not have a felony criminal record"

Hey, I don't even have any favorite sports teams. I don't care if he's into sports or not- as long as we do have interests in common AND he respects me and my viewpoints and preferences.

What I mean is things like "he has to be a practicing Catholic" vs. "he has to believe in the Judeo-Christian deity". While the first one may not be an absolute requirement (although it would simplify things a lot), the second one is an absolute must that I cannot and will not negotiate/compromise/settle about (don't know which one of the three terms would apply best).

I have a list that if a man meets everything I'll immediately drag him home to my mom and claim I married him just to watch her freak. I love her but it'd be too much fun to pass up. :D

Red headed, Catholic, Texan, Navy or Marine Pilot, named Sean Patrick Kennedy, drives a white convertible Cadilac with longhorns on the front. :)

She hates every one of those charteristics. It's the "perfect" man to bring home to her.

Some of the arbitrary things I used to say I couldn't live without:

*not Republican, but not too far to the left
* somewhat religious
* from a city
* NOT a Tarheel lover nor a fan of the Cowboys or Yankees
* more macho than metro

There were more but I can barely even remember them. In the end, the "list" is not important. In my case opposites attract. We are NOTHING alike!! But some how we work together. I have no idea how but we do. The list I wanted ended up not being important.

When it comes to a partner, I would just use the word compromise. Negotiating is something done between two people who cannot reach an agreement. Compromising is something you can do with yourself. What's steadfast and what are you willing to compromise?

For instance, you must have a guy who believes in god. You'll compromise over his religion though.
This will sound a bit silly to someone who's not a sports fan, but I'm a diehard red sox fan (I'm sitting here in red sox pj pants!) and I dated a yankees fan. After we broke up, I swore never to date another yankees fan. I'm a very passionate, competitive person so it wouldn't work. Now I'm with a diehard sox fan like myself. I went to Fenway and saw the sox play live for the first time with him and I wouldn't have traded it for the world.

So it comes down to this:
looks-worth a compromise.
politics-possible compromise.
religion-compromise.
etc. etc. It depends what you hold near and dear. My SO may be the physical opposite of what I always imagined my type to be but he's also perfect (in my eyes) in every other way and we fit. I will marry him.
Scandia, I know you're older, but I would really check out a certain book. It's called 'I Gave Dating a Chance' by Jeramy Clark. It's aimed at teenagers but it's a good grounding for christian dating etc. Stay away from Joshua Harris, whatever you do.

I agree that compromise is a better word than negotiate in this setting.

I've never, ever had a "list" of what I want or don't want in a guy. That said, before I got together with my old man, I had a vague idea that I wanted a guy who tended to agree with me on political issues (i.e., is a big liberal) and is someone who'll do his share around the house should we live together eventually (i.e., does approximately half of the work). I never really thought about it, but I couldn't date someone who believes in God/is religious. Other than that, I wouldn't date someone I didn't find totally hot (that's probably the only one I really thought about before).

Maybe I've never gotten specific because I haven't met or dated some of the jacked-up people mentioned in the thread about red flags -- felons, fanny pack wearers, abusers, people with a lot of family drama or baby's mamas, etc. -- so none of these things were an issue for me. I've also never met a guy who was really into having kids. Before GC, I didn't know there even WERE guys who actively want kids. I always thought guys end up with kids because women want them, LOL. I'm not even kidding.

scandia,

i think all of us unknowingly have criteria that we use to qualify folks as suitable to date. i think that it is when we knowingly list criteria for which our dates should qualify that we run into trouble. rarely would someone fulfill all the requirements. i'm sure that even prince william or george clooney would meet all of our requirements. maybe your question is how many of my preferences could i accept in a mate, or of the criteria i have for a mate, which are the most important?

for instance, i think that i remember you saying in another thread that you would like a mate who is of equal intelligence. what if you met a man who was very smart & well spoken, but who's i.q. might be lower than yours? would that be a reason to drop him, if he met most of the other criteria on your list? now did you really mean equal intelligence, or did you mean equivalent education?

one of my relatives married a man who has a technical degree from a trade school. she is college educated. her parents were not happy with the marriage because he was not college educated. however, he is a very well spoken, interesting, caring, informed and involved person. he treats my relative like a queen and is a wonderful father to their children. he is well respected in their community. they own their own business which is very successful and they have made a lot of money. her parents have come to adore him as they have gotten to know him. he is a good man. had she listened to her parents,simply because he did not meet their criteria, my relative would have missed out on a wonderfully successful marriage.

you also said that you would like your mate to be a practicing catholic-would you be willing to compromise on that? for instance, a compromise might be that he would be willing to convert to catholicism. would that be alright? what if he preferred to stay with his religion, but agreed that if you had children, they could be raised catholic? could you live with that?

i think you might be putting the cart before the horse. before you find a husband, you have to find a date. i dated lots of different men before i met my husband. i dated a few jerks, some really nice guys, and a few that i had serious relationships with. i think dating the guys that i did helped me to realize the gem that my husband was when i met him. but as the saying goes, i did have to kiss a few frogs before i met my prince. go out to meet interesting men, not to find a husband. it you feel a spark, hooray!! if you don't, hopefully you have made a friend, and maybe the spark will show up with the next date.

how did your parents meet? was it an arranged marriage?

Well you have certain things that are obviously dealbreakers:

Southern
Hot
Rich


Then other things (Merely secondary):

Blonde hair
College degree
Disease free
Ability to read

I'm glad Im not the only one who thought this topic related to law. LOL.

FSUZeta- my parents met at their workplace. It was in the early 70s, so laws were much more relaxed back then. A guy willing to convert is fine, as well as one who stays in his denomination but respects mine- but he HAS to believe in God, and his specific beliefs should be close to mine (ie- no fundamentalists or radicals). Regarding intelligence and education- well, the technical diploma is not as extreme a case as someone who has dropped out of high school due to lack of intelligence and ambition. I would have to see exactly if we get along and share the same educational level and interests- in other words, he needs to understand my big words and not make fun of my using them.

Valkyrie- the next to last guy I dated (back in 2004) wanted to have a large family. That is the main reason why things did not work out between us. Sure sure, there were other problems- but if he states this reason to a girl as to why things did not work out between him and I, neither one of us will look bad.

Centaur- this may be due to the language barrier, but for some reason I thought that compromise carried a stronger degree that negotiation. That "negotiate" meant "oh, he has brown hair and eyes, instead of blonde hair and blue eyes which are my preference, but otherwise he meets all my needs and wants", but compromise meant more like "I'll deal with his dislike of animals because he's dealing with my being no good at cooking". And of course, settling was like "he does not have the intelligence or ambition to have a career, but at least he has a job and is not mooching off me, so oh well. Guess I should be grateful for that". And why do you not recommend Joshua Harris?

Scandia:

Is someone putting pressure on you to get married?

Do you know yourself well enough in order to be able to know what you're seeking? Do you know what's really important to you? Have you ever sat down and done any real soul searching to figure out what type of man would make you happy?

Maybe you would want to turn off what your friends and your family are telling you about what's right in a man for you... and listen to yourself. Afterall, only YOU know what's right for YOU.

Remember that your mother, your sister, and your best friend are all different people with different tastes, values, and needs and wants than you. The perfect man for your best friend or your mother may not be the perfect man for you.. so don't let them pick him for you. If you do.. you'll probably be miserable.

Right now, you're dating and seeing what works for you and what doesn't. As you go out with different men, see if you can identify which qualities are uppermost in what you're looking for. In other words, what are your "musts" and what are your "deal breakers?"


Some things to think about...

-Is he honest?

-Is he loving and caring?

-Do you two have enough in common in order to do things together far in the future? (An example might be-- you might have a passion for traveling, but he'd rather stay at home. Would this be a problem in the future? Or would you be happy traveling alone while he stays home?)

-On the other hand, do you both have your own separate interests so you can still be happy doing your own thing once in a while?

-How important is financial stabilty to you?

And here are some examples of what you may or not consider deal breakers:

-Does it bother you if he smokes? Or drinks? Or does drugs?

-Has he lied to you?

-Does he want kids and you don't?

-Is he deeply in debt? Or do you care?

Finally, I would urge you not to take dating as a "life or death" thing right now. Go out and have fun. Stop stressing over it. Once you feel confident in who you are.. when the right guy comes around, you'll know it.

Hey...I think I dated this guy once!! But his name wasn't Sean.....

No biggie...we'd just call it a compromise. The More You Know...
As for Joshua Harris. Well, let's just say he's more than unreasonable. Have you ever heard of a book called 'I Kissed Dating Goodbye'? He basically goes on and on about staying pure and true to god and making sure you're so satisfied being single (by doing service etc.) that it doesn't matter whether or not you ever find yourself a partner. It's just out there, hardcore and basically unrealistic. Try it if you want, but I wouldn't spend money on it. Or his second book about how he met his wife.

Centaur- I have read several of Joshua Harris' books, including "I kissed dating goodbye". Service is NOT a substitute for romance. It is not fair for singles to have to serve while people in relationships are having fun. While I do have a mostly satisfying life being single, let's just say that it involves cultural travel, fun outings with friends, furthering my education, and eccentric hobbies. Certainly not spending all my free time serving others- though I do try to make the world a better place in my own way, and enjoy being a public service children's librarian quite a bit.

Blueangel- no specific person is putting pressure on me, but there is always the societal pressure. And as Centaur said, there is the not so subtle yet very unrealistic expectation that singles should just be content and serve others- which I simply cannot do. In my dating and friendship experience, I have come to realize what is what I want- and how is it similar and/or different than what others want and need. I do work on keeping my life full and interesting.

You're pretty young, aren't you Scandia? Where I'm from (Oklahoma), there's pressure to marry off pretty young --people thing there's something wrong with you if you ain't hitched as soon as you finish either HS or your undergrad degree.

I get to see the stupidity in that societal pressure though. I work in a law office which does probably 75% matrimonial law. The bottom line is that you CAN and SHOULD wait. When the time is right, the time is right.

I don't understand why you'd really need to have a list looking for specific factors. It's not like you're going car shopping. Just find someone who makes you happy. Checks on a list aren't going to do that for you though.

who is feeding you this @#$%???
 

My mom was not in the best of health for a long time and one day one of my cousins (actually his wife) said "it would be nice if you would stay around here [here being my dead-end hometown] for the next 10 or so years because of your mom." The implication, of course, was that since I wasn't finding a MAN here in the big city, I should get my butt home and be a caretaker. When I told my mom that, she was so mad I think she wanted to hit my cousin's wife over the head with a pot.

Service is NOT a substitute for love and companionship of a romantic partner. If it were, there would be all-night places to go to teach illiterate adults to read instead of "adult toy stores", LOL.

If you get that kind of pressure on a regular basis, you need to find other types of people to surround yourself with.

Sometimes church/religious organizations tend to use the whole "fullfill yourself through service" as fallback advice to singles (like the "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" book). I think it's hard for religious orgs. to "promote" or advise dating, especially given that modern adult dating isn't the chastest of institutions. So the church advice is really nonadvice: they're essentially saying "Well....do some service to fulfill you until you can find someone who will fulfill you." I think that sentiment is okay for very young singles -- who will probably find someone soon anyway -- but I can imagine how frustrating that would be if that's the ONLY advice you've been given in ten or fifteen years of searching for a partner.

Unfortunately for Scandia, if this pressure is coming from her church (which I'm assuming is very important to her), it would be virtually inescapable.
Scandia's age and the fact that she's never married makes her a rare breed, especially in a religious organization. The Joshua Harrises of the world are giving this advice and service-as-partner-replacement nonsense to older teens and people in their early twenties who make up the majority of the never-married church singles population, not grown-ass women like Scandia.

So correct me if I'm wrong, Scandia, but I think you can safely ignore the pressure to fulfill yourself through service, as it isn't exactly directed at someone in your relatively rare circumstance. If you're actually having people directly tell you to get out there and to give to others through service in lieu of finding a man then :eek:

33girl- well, the pressure is not as direct anymore. Possibly because I am not really in a certain cultural area of the nation, or possibly because the church I attend now is more enlightened. But in certain places, it was almost like serving others was the penalty singles paid for being unattached. I am glad your mother disagreed with your cousin's wife- how rude and entitled of her to think that singles have nothing to do other than serve people.

AChiOhSnap- well, I did not think that being unmarried at 29 was that super rare. But I have found activities and endeavors that fulfill me quite well. Too bad they are selfish ones like traveling to historical places and getting an advanced degree. I did resent being told to serve even as a teen and college student- so it may be my personality. Conversely, a happily married friend of mine volunteers at a soup kitchen and says she receives more from it than what she gives. I have told her how much I admire her for that.

Kevin- well, my adolescence may be nearly over, but I look much younger than my age. A person that makes me happy will fulfill certain requirements- but it is not like I want a professional athlete or someone with a sports car or a GQ model.

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!

As much as I love being a children's librarian, I can NOT use my work with kids to fulfill my emotional needs that long for romantic love.

I would caution readers about the fact that he was only 21 when he wrote the book. But in defense of Mr. Harris, I really don't think his point was "Read to orphans as a substitute for a relationship". He was saying that too many Christians are so marriage-hungry that they lose focus on their own spiritual lives which, like it or not, are supposed to heavily involve serving others (and service does NOT just mean volunteering). If you aren't in the right place spiritually, you shouldn't be making the most important, intimate, and permanent spiritual union of your life. I check for that.

The problem is that most Christians are so marriage-hungry, period. I think that evangelicals are worse about it than the more mainline denominations, but it's absurd to me to think that I have friends that aren't even 25 who are worried they are going to spend their lives alone because nice girls get married by the time they finish college. :rolleyes:

So true....so so true. A group of christian teenagers are the most sexually frustrated people on the planet. And they're not supposed to have premarital sex so they try to marry off as early as possible. So many christian couples get engaged in their late teens to early 20s and then start cranking out kids in their early twenties.
Going to a christian college is like the hunt for a husband not for a degree.
As for Joshua Harris...read his follow-up, Boy Meets Girl. Ugh...ugh ugh ugh. Even when I was a christian I found it way too extreme. Now that I've ditched it completely I find it even more out there, and basically a little insulting that there's no way to grow together emotionally etc. if you're physically involved. Sorry but that's so not true, unless you're truly controlled by your pants.

The same is true for Orthodox Jews. An Orthodox friend of mine who is about a year younger than I am got married and moved to Israel two years ago. She wasn't even legally old enough to drink at her own wedding. I saw her over the summer at her younger sister's wedding. She already has one child with another on the way. She just kinda looked at me like "and what have you been doing with your life?" Having fun.

Scandia,

You need to know how to be married if you want to get married.

"I kissed dating goodbye" is okay, but not as helpful to getting married. It is pretty much you ought not have a list and accept the "one" God lead's you to...

Now, if you get an a$$hole, then you probably pushed it and ran up under a guy who does not LOVE you.

A man who loves you will do unbelievable things. I am not talking about psychopathic stalking domestic violence abusers. I am talking about when a man loves a woman or whatever your persuasion... When he does and marriage is what you want, then those are things you don't have to ask for, it will just happen... Almost like magic...

The best you can do is to be in spiritual sync and breathe... Prepare for your mate...

And it is more about collaboration than compromise. You make it all compromise--give & take, the seeds of resentment set in... Make it a collaborative effort, and see how far you both go...

And as for settling... I settled down. I used to partay like a freak, 8 days a week, 25 hours a day... But being with my husband, has calmed my Sith Lord capabilities... :rolleyes: And I can become the Jedi I always wanted to be... ;)

Whatever you do, know and do you...

Visit Oklahoma sometime.

I can't believe you'd be so judgmental. Psychopathic stalking domestic violence abusing is how some of us show our love.

I honestly think the reason why some (not all) Christians in their 20s are so marriage hungry is because we want to satisfy our sexual drives and longings in a legitimate way. Some of us don't even need the church mores and commandments (or the statistics, or consequences and scares that happen to friends) in order to avoid premarital sex- we just feel too uncomfortable with it by nature.

I don't want kids. I don't want a picket fence- or even a single family home to be honest. I don't want to become a soccer mom. I seek my own status as an individual and do not want to simply become "Mrs. Such and Such". I just want someone to love in a romantic way- with all that it entails- and that our relationship is blessed and approved by God.

Nothing says I love you like a restraining order!

You don't have to be married nor have a partner to satisfy your...uh..."sexual drives".
"If you want a job done right, do it yourself".

I would pay GOOD MONEY to see this. And participate. ;)

And LOL @ CP2000. That's just not as much fun, ever.

Fair enough.... :D

But people needn't think that they are without options here....

If a man wants you...
 

FYI. Just passing this along...


If a man wants you, nothing can keep him away. If he doesn't want you, nothing can make him stay.

Stop making excuses for a man and his behavior. Allow your intuition (or spirit) to save you from heartache.

Stop trying to change yourselves for a relationship that's not meant to be. Slower is better. Never live your life for a man before you find what makes you truly happy.

If a relationship ends because the man was not treating you as you deserve to be treated then heck no, you can't "be friends." A friend wouldn't mistreat a friend.

Don't settle.

If you feel like he is stringing you along, then he probably is. Don't stay because you think "it will get better." You'll be mad at yourself a year later for staying when things are not better.

The only person you can control in a relationship is you.

Avoid men who've got a bunch of children by a bunch of different women. He didn't marry them when he got them pregnant. Why would he treat you any differently?

Always have your own set of friends separate from his.

Maintain boundaries in how a guy treats you. If something bothers you, speak up. Never let a man know everything. He will use it against you later.

You cannot change a man's behavior. Change comes from within.

Don't EVER make him feel he is more important than you are... even if he has more education or in a better job. Do not make him into a quasi-god. He is a man! Nothing more nothing less. Never let a man define who you are.

Never borrow someone else's man. If he cheated with you, he'll cheat on you.

A man will only treat you the way you ALLOW him to treat you. All men are NOT dogs. You should not be the one doing all the bending...compromise is a two way street.

You need time to heal between relationships...there is nothing cute about baggage... deal with your issues before pursuing a new relationship.

You should never look for someone to complete you ... A relationship consists of two whole individuals...look for someone complementary...not supplementary.

Dating is fun...even if he doesn't turn out to be Mr. Right.

Make him miss you sometimes...when a man always knows where you are, and you're always readily available to him, he takes you for granted.

Never move into his mother's house. Never co-sign for a man.

Don't fully commit to a man who doesn't give you everything that you need. Keep him in your radar, but get to know others.

Share this with other ladies.....

You'll make someone smile, another rethink her choices, and another woman prepare. They say it takes a minute to find a special person, an hour to appreciate them, a day to love them and an entire lifetime to forget them.

Pass this on to at least 10 women and 5 men.

By the way, this was written by a man, so take a hint!

Just hope you keep up... Try out-drinking Ouzo with a Cajun... That's a hard feat... Boy, did my stomach have it's revenge on me the next day, not to mention my head...

And let's not talk about "thangs" I did in high school--some um, 28957980 years ago... I must have given one of my best "Christian Values" speeches after my Senior Prom... I'll just say I experimented with some "stuh"... I was a stoopid kid. :rolleyes: ;)

You know, AKA Monet, that was probably one of the most helpful chain-forward type things I've ever read. Too much time wasted with men who will never love me or treat me the way I deserve to be treated...

In a way, I think a general "list" is good to have. Not specifics like "must be 6ft 2 with brown hair", but knowing what is a total dealbreaker for you is important. I've had issues in the past with letting surface things like physical attraction or the ability to have a good time and laugh with a person affect my emotional attachment too much... and you can save yourself a lot of heartache by not falling in love with someone who you knew wasn't right for you from Day One.

You know.. there's more truth in that statement than you know :)

If you ever get a chance, go sit in on a VPO docket sometime. (that's restraining order docket, or whatever you call it where you're at)

Some of the best stories judges will ever tell you come out of their experiences with those VPO dockets.

Here's a great one (and I have no idea if I can tell it as well as the judge in question did..)

Two individuals represented by counsel appeared one morning on the VPO docket -- a man and a woman, boyfriend and girlfriend. The man was obviously a bodybuilder. He was huge. The woman was as well.. they were both gym rats. The man in this case was the Plaintiff.

The court asks, "Sir, do you have a legitimate reason to be afraid of this woman?"

Man replies, "Yes, she stabbed me during a fight."

The court: [to woman] "Is this true?"

Woman: "Yes your honor."

Woman's attorney: "Your honor, I have something to add. The plaintiff here has shown since the altercation that he does not actually fear my client. Since the stabbing incident, they have had intercourse."

The court [to man]: "Is this true? If so, how long ago was it that this occurred?"

Man: [Looks at his watch]...silence...

__________

They're not always that good, but think... Jerry Springer show and you're pretty close.