SMU student found dead at SAE House
 

Dallas news stations are reporting that an SAE member was found dead in their house at SMU. No other information so far.

Naperville student dead at SMU

December 3, 2006
DALLAS -- A 20-year-old from Naperville, Ill., was found dead in his room at a Southern Methodist University fraternity house over the weekend.


The university said in a news release posted on its Web site that the cause of Jacob Stiles' death wasn't immediately known. A ruling on the cause of death was pending Sunday with the Dallas County Medical Examiner's Office.

Stiles was a member of the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity. Fraternity members attended a prayer service for Stiles at Perkins Chapel on campus on Sunday.

Stiles was found dead about 1:30 p.m. Saturday.

Long night filled with lots of drinking and lots of blow. Thats about all you need to know.

As I posted on FS, one of my favorite combinations.

Condolences go out to the SAE family.

P.S. could this be taken out of Hazing, seeing as it was not a result of hazing?

It's in Risk Management, which is more than just hazing. Besides, they don't know how he died yet.

I believe I just stated how he died. OD of some type.....highly likely that it was coke.......have talked to quite a few people about it today....I know a ton of SAEs at SMU. Truly horrible, and I wish the best for their chapter and all that are involved.

Dammit, why was my post deleted?

Condolences to the SAE family.

Condolences to all involved.

This kind of thing is a shock to all involved -- even if the risks are known -- so my thoughts go out to not only the chapter, but to all of this young mans friends and the entire Greek Community there.

We had a similar situation at our Ohio State chapter a few years ago, but the drinking and drugs didn't happen in the house.

Subsequent information, though, caused an investigation which resulted in the closing of the chapter. It recolonized and was rechartered last year, I think.

They won't close SAE at SMU.......too powerful...........besides, it was a completely isolated incodent.

It is amazing how some people feel that their Chapter is above their National/International and how they think and feel.

Bravado may seem the thing to do unless you have worked with them one on one, then you may have no idea of what is going on.

Have many gotten out of the little world, Chapter, or area they are in and worked with Members of other Greek Organizations?

A Greek Organization with out Leadership is a Ship with out a Captain.

If what some say that that IHQ's hold a blind eye to transgressions against policy have a lot to learn.

Oh Jesus....here we go again. Tom, quit with your nonsensical, rambling preacher sessions. You have absolutely no idea what happened. I do. What the hell are you talking about with "transgressions against policy?" The chapter didn't have anything to it.

Instead of force feeding everyone your ideas on your beloved "Nationals/IHQ" and telling us to "get out in the real world"........

Ohio State was one of our larger and older chapters with some very influential alumni.

That didn't make any difference.

And it shouldn't.

It was due to its history and alumni support -- including a member of our Arch Chapter (board of directors) -- that allowed it to recolonize so quickly, though.

You're right, we don't know the whole story, but if this kind of behavior is a norm at the chapter, and it isn't closed, then SAE isn't as good of an organization as I think it is.

Or we could let people take responsibilities for their actions. Why not close SMU down as well? They obviously allow these activities to go on. If the chapter supplied the blow, maybe that would be a rational decision. Also, if a chapter has a policy against drugs and decides to kick a member out, then thats fine also. Nationals coming in and closing down shop because some people use drugs and an accident happened is stupid. Yeah yeah, insurance, liability. I just hate that fraternities are viewed as some overseeing parent responsible for its members. Sure, our bonds and activities go beyond that of a club, but thats how it should be viewed. If I die of drinking, should the college republicans be held responsible? These are grown men. Well, they would be if people would stop treating them like children who need to be coddled.

I would be more than happy to if the same respect is shown to others:) .

But, I am afraid you have no clue! Get a grip on what Greek Life is instead of your little mind set.

Yes, You are Amazing!

Maybe. But maybe not grown enough to follow the rules and obey the law.

The chapter knows what is expected of it.

IF it was aware of what was going on, it may deserve to be closed.

Sorry, but that's the way society works.

Delt, if you don't think drugs and alcohol are a part of a significant number of chapters then you need to wake up and smell the coffee. They are everywhere. I don't think it is fair to make your mind up about an organization because a chapter has guys that do drugs.

In this case......its SMU. That school is insanely wealthy.......and so are its fraternity members. Lots of partying and lots of drugs. This is known by everyone.

Delt, no its not. Thats not how society works at all. Usually, you do drugs, you get hurt, its your fault. You get arrested, you're liable for the consequences. Theres no need for some pseudo watchdog group overseeing your actions. If nationals wants to kick the kid out, fine, do it. Don't punish the chapter because some people use drugs. How are fraternities supposed to help guys grow into men when HQ's hover over them? If you don't wanna do drugs, don't. If you do, do, and see what happens. If you wanna be hazed, go for it. If you don't, hit the road. Our entire male greek system is gonna be filled with whiny bitches if this keeps up.

I saw this over the weekend, while surfing, and hoped that it would not get picked up.

Speaking for myself, and perhaps Brother Mac', thank you for your kind thought and words.

My thoughts are also with the Chapter and his family and friends.
http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dw....52ac3362.html

I have a thought for a new thread that I will start when I have a few free monuments. Will be some sort of good news/good deed thread of some sort. Keep an eye open for it.

Gentlemen,

If you run a liquor store and keep selling to minors -- you lose your license. If you run a bar and sell to minors, you lose your license. If you allow illegal drugs to be used in your home, you could go to jail.

In this case, an underaged young man allegedly used drugs and drank alcohol in the chapter house.

Those are both not only against the rules, they're against the law as well.

Saying that it's done all the time doesn't change either of those facts.

If someone breaks the law and you aid in that, you can be held responsible as well.

If you are responsible (personally or as a chapter), you can either be charged for breaking the law or be sued or lose your charter as a chapter.

Sorry. That is the way society works.

Here's an article about him from the Naperville Sun (local paper). Very sad.

Delt, no one said anything about him doing either of those in the chapter house. Thanks. SAE had an off campus Christmas party Friday night.....so he may have been there for a while......although several of my friends said they saw him elsewhere at bars.

Delt, yeah, you kick the kid out. You don't shut down the house. Come in and do some sort of drug awareness pc bullcrap or something. I understand HQ's have to mitigate their liability on stuff like this, thats obviously part of the problem as well. My biggest problem with stuff like this, is that isolated incidents create change for everyone else. Granted, I'm not blaming this chapter or this kid at all, this is about a broader issue. Its the same thing with hazing. Plenty of chapters do it for decades without incident, but one chapter screwing up can ruin it for everyone else. Millions of college kids binge drink, but one who doesn't know his limits creates a ridiculous environment for everyone else. I guess I would have preferred greek life before HQ's became so involved, and to be fair to them, before litigation became a core principle of being an American.

DeltAlum, how can you be so ignorant when it comes to Greek Life as proposed by so few others?:eek:

Don't you know anybetter than to argue with those in the know who know more than others?

For shame.;)

Oh well, with age comes some maturity.:)

What I see here is one very tragic situation where a kid died. No matter what type of risk management policies you have, you can't watch every member all of the time. You can pretend that none of your members do drugs, but really, you're just fooling yourself. The stuff is out there, it happens, so be it. Just pray no one gets hurt.

My condolences to the SAE family. I don't think any kind of sanctimonious "follow your RM policy!' thing I could say could possibly help the situation. These kids have probably learned a very sobering lesson here.

It's definitely still out there. During a Homecoming visit to a school a couple of months ago, I stopped by various chapters that I've produced newsletters & alumni communications materials for.

In two instances, I was welcomed by the familiar purple haze that was prevalent during my time in school 30 years ago. Brother Spicoli, howyadoin?

Having worked with various SAE chapters, I'd also like to offer my condolences to the men of SMU and to the family of the brother who's passed away. His home's not far from my cousin's house in Naperville, IL.

Interfraternally,
Bill F.

Nothing truly new in the news on this-seems that medical report will not be out for awhile.
Just this from several media sites:
http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/n...ENT_S1.article

http://www.smudailycampus.com/media/...ailycampus.com

http://www.smudailycampus.com/media/...ailycampus.com

I completely agree. There may be some risk management lessons to learn here -- I certainly can't know because I only know a little of the story -- but right now is a time for grief and sympathy, not lectures, especially from those of us who are only semi-informed observers.

My condolences to Jon and Mac, to their SAE brothers, and to Stiles' family and friends.

With respect, I (at least partially) disagree.

The name of this forum is Risk Management and it is set up to discuss "topics such as: Hazing, Alcohol Abuse/Awareness, Date Rape Awareness, Eating Disorcer Prevention, Liability, etc."

Condolences are absolutely appropriate, but not the stated mission of the forum. It is to discuss and, hopefully, learn from the problems facing other people and organizations so that others might not find themselves in the same situation(s).

Having been a division officer at a chapter where there was a suicide and having to talk to grieving parents, brothers and other students (Greek and non) at a memorial service on the campus; and having been recommended to be an investigator for issues such as this (I declined), I feel pretty strongly that there are lessons to be learned and that the way that happens is through an ongoing dialog.

Many of us expressed out condolences early in the thread, but I believe that it is important to discuss (and learn from) these situations as soon as possible.

It's a TEACHABLE MOMENT!!!










(and for anyone who doesn't know me well, I completely agree w/ Kevin and MysticCat that the lectures aren't needed at present time, especially over and over)

Well, I'll have to disagree, at least partially and also with respect.

Yes, this is a Risk Management - Hazing & etc. forum. (Maybe later someone can explain to me why a forum for people with college educations has "& Etc." in the title.) And yes, there are always lessons to be learned through ongoing dialog, regardless of the tragedy that gives rise to the dialogue.

But all parties have to be ready for the dialogue, which is often not the case immediately after an event such as this. And all parties have to understand what the dialogue is about -- is it about risk management or is it about personal responsibility when it comes to drugs and alcohol, or is it about both?

The purpose of this forum notwithstanding, I can understand completly why some close to the situation take offense when others with minimal knowledge of the facts offer what can come across as gratuitous, even patronizing, advice on risk management. (I'm not saying any advice or comments were intended to be patronizing, but I can see how they were received that way.) Meaningful dialogue requires that those participating in the dialogue all be adequately informed. Unlike the situation you describe of the suicide in the chapter in your division, no one here, except for Mac, is anywhere near "on the ground" with this situation.

That is why I think, with all respect, that the time for the time for risk management discussions must wait until everyone has all the facts. When all the facts are in hand, it just might turn out that Mac knows what he's been talking about and, despite the OP's placement of the thread in this forum, this tragic death is not really a risk management issue at all.

Delt Alum, "respectfully" I strongly disagree with you. This thread shouldn't even be in this forum. For the 220394857 time......you don't know what happened....at all. You have continually posted in this thread like you do. There is absolutely no reason for you to keep making posts concerning Risk Management without any adequate information concerning what happened. You are trying to lecture people on a situation that you don't even know exists. I can make a 30 second phone call and find out far more than you have from a lengthy article. (I have, more than once, because I am good friends with many of those guys.)

For you to take this man's death, turn it around, and try to lecture us on RM policy, what is and isn't legal, what should happen to the chapter, and whether or not you think SAE is a good organization is extremely disrespectful and uncalled for. It is pretty much a slap in the face.

"Teachable Moment"?? Are you serious?

Exactly. A person has died. However, the moderators continue to give that person as much respect as a story. Are you serious? Lecture=person? A possible drug overdose has nothing to do with hazing or chapter problems or anything. How about next time a fraternity/sorority member goes missing we put that in here, because obviously it has something to do with the chapter.

I was the one who started the thread. In hindsight, I should have put it in the Greek Life thread. If my putting it in Risk Management offends anyone at the SAE HQ or the members of the SMU chapter, I sincerely apologize. And just to be clear, there is no sarcasm at all in that statement.

Now, defending DeltAlum. His first post had a condolence message in it. He then went on to talk about a similar incident that he was aware of in his own fraternity and the consequences it involved. You seem to take issue with his phrase "in the house". If he was mistaken in this, why didn't you just point it out? Your own first post did not offer condolences to the chapter, but said: "Long night filled with lots of drinking and lots of blow. That's all you need to know." Please, calmly explain how saying that shows the respect for the dead young man, his family, and his chapter that you feel DA is not showing.

Instead, you came back with a statement that basically says that no matter what the SAE chapter at SMU does, your HQ would not close it. DA didn't argue with your statement at SAE. He just stated the facts in the Ohio State/Delta Tau Delta case and then agreed that he doesn't know the whole story about the what happened at SMU this weekend. After this is when you finally make the statement that the party was off campus. (And, hate to tell you, if it was a fraternity sponsered event and the under age member was there drinking, yes, the chapter can still be held responsible.)

Nowhere in his posts have I read him 'lecturing' anyone. He offered condolences, shared a similar situation that he was involved in and the consequences, made a couple of posts about responsibility, and basically been attacked. He deserves none of it.

If you have a problem with what someone posts and if it is 'appropriate' or not in this forum or thread, let Kevin know. He will take measures. If you don't feel like Kevin did the right thing, let John know. He is the ultimate ruler of GC.

And, I am truly sorry to have to add more of this bs to a thread that was genuinely started to inform people of a sad event at SAE SMU chapter.

I think he was referring more to Tom, not Delt.

It doesn't deserve to be in the Risk/Hazing section

I offered my condolences in my very next post after my first....but that is besides the point. I have talked to many of the guys in the chapter......actually talked to a couple of them about an hour after he was found dead. They were devastated....I felt it would mean more to here it from me personally.....rather than announce it over a message board......but I still wrote something. Please, don't ask me to explain what I have and haven't done. Pretty sure I have expressed my feelings to the right people. Sorry if my first post was brutally honest......but that is pretty much what happened. Also, I made no mention of them not closing SAE at SMU until Delt responded with his Ohio State story.

Again, I don't know if he was at the SAE party or not. I talked to a bunch of Phi Delts that saw him out elsewhere....so I don't know. However, I am pretty sure the third party vender would be held responsible for serving him alcohol.....not the chapter. If they took the correct Risk Management procedures (which I know they do because I have been to several of their parties) then they shouldn't be held liable at all. They always have wrist bands to get in, wrist bands to get alcohol, and ways to designate who is underage.......this is all done by hired Security.

Oh, my best guess is that he might have been talking about me.

That's OK. We don't agree on a number of things.

But here's the deal. Shortly after this forum was opened, I was the moderator (of this as well as Greek Life, Chit Chat and Delta Tau Delta) and John (the administrator) pretty much said to run it as I saw fit. I did that for quite a while.

Kevin is now the moderator, and I assume that John told him to run it as he sees fit as well.

Kevin is a good moderator and if he feels that something is in the wrong forum, he will move it where he thinks it belongs. I also think that if he feels I (or anyone else) am out of line, he will tell me/us -- or simply delete my/our posts.

This thread could have gone in either Greek Life or Risk Management -- but since it ended up in this one, I don't think it's out of line to explore the potential Risk Management issues involved.

Finally, when I say respectfully, I mean exactly that -- with respect. There's no reason I can think of to quote that word parenthetically.

Thanks LaneSig for the kind support.

Update Wed. Dec. 20, 2006:

Several news sources in Texas are reporting that the medical examiner has determined the cause of Mr. Stiles' death was an overdose -- "a lethal combination of cocaine, ethynol and fentanyl," as one news piece put it:

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages/...Y&pageId=3.2.1

The fentanyl is what killed him. I'm sure he took it when he got home to go to sleep. Pain Killers and blow don't mix.

A few more reports with some more details on drug:
http://www.kvue.com/news/state/stori....2baf341b.html
By JASON TRAHAN / The Dallas Morning News


http://www.kvue.com/sharedcontent/dw...06/1220smu.jpg John Schreiber/The Daily Campus
The drug can be lethal if taken outside a prescription.

A rare but expensive drug sometimes absorbed through lollipops contributed to the death of a 20-year-old Southern Methodist University student in early December.
The Dallas County medical examiner has determined that Jacob Stiles overdosed on a toxic mixture of cocaine, alcohol and the synthetic opiate fentanyl.
The drug is used as a painkiller, but in any form fentanyl can be lethal if taken outside a prescription.
“People have died with needles in their arms,” said Kurt Kleinschmidt, an associate professor of emergency medicine at UT Southwestern Medical Center and toxicologist with the North Texas Poison Center.
“What’s really nasty about fentanyl (is) it’s a more potent narcotic than heroin or morphine - up to 100 times," Dr. Kleinschmidt said. "People can have overdoses and not know what they’ve gotten themselves into."
One expert said that nationally, more abusers prefer fentanyl patches over the lollipops. Some people apply more than one patch, while more hardcore users get a syringe and extract the drug right out of the patch.
Local, state and federal officials say that abuse of fentanyl is on the rise, but the facts it is expensive and hard to get have kept it from spreading more quickly.
Abuse is relatively rare, mostly because of the high cost. But about a month ago, a health insurance company alerted Dallas police to some suspiciously large prescription orders billed to their company for Actiq, which is fentanyl in a berry-flavored lozenge attached to a stick.
This form of the powerful synthetic opiate is designed to help manage pain of cancer patients who have trouble swallowing. But to abusers, the products are known as “perc-o-pops” or “lollipops,” and because of their potency they can plunge users into a stupor. Mix it with other drugs and the combination can be lethal, experts say.
Dallas police in the past few weeks arrested two workers at a doctor’s office for forging prescriptions for $40,000 of the lollipop form of fentanyl, known under the brand name Actiq.

http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedconten....2b395050.html

No matter just what happened, how it happened, or why it happened, Brother Stiles death is way too early in his life.