Vermont Judge Dismisses Hazing Charges (FIJI - "Brokeback" Case)
 

As reported in the Boston Globe:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ver..._uvm_students/

This was the first case under Vermont's new anti-hazing law. An appeal is possible.

I hope they get kicked in the face with fines on appeal, then lose their charter. Not only is that degrading and clearly hazing, it's homophobic.

It's Vermont, it's not like they weren't already homosexual to begin with.

Somehow I don't think that biology is skewed by geography the way culture is. Now, if you were saying they were more likely to be out in Vermont, I'd agree. But that's neither here nor there.

If there turns out to be enough evidence to fine them, they should absolutely lose their charter - activity like tha hurts the entire greek community.

If you think thats hazing then I suggest you never visit any of your southern chapters. From what I gathered from the article they made them dress up like cowboys and called them fags. Sounds really traumatizing. That is not hazing. Maybe you are gay and you take offense to that, I dont know. But I dont care if gays take offense to it because I dont like gay people.

Lose their charter because they made them dress like cowboys and called them some names? Good Lord.....that is ridiculous.

How so? It paints us all as hate-mongering homophobes. Is that the image you want attached to fraternity life?

I could personally give a shit what a bunch of GDIs think of fraternity life. I know how it is......as does anyone that is worth a damn.

"From what I gathered from the article they made them dress up like cowboys and called them fags. Sounds really traumatizing. That is not hazing."

How is that not hazing? Have you read the definition or the law recently....making new members dress up in anything and/or calling them names is clearly noted in the anti-hazing laws.

"I could personally give a shit what a bunch of GDIs think of fraternity life. I know how it is......as does anyone that is worth a damn."

yeah....and i think more than just the 'GDIs' think this is a problem. just ask your national office. I'd like to see if they share you opinion. although, you probably don't 'give a shit' what they think either.....

No...actually I really don't care what Nationals thinks.......I really don't think I know of a chapter in the South that likes/appreciates/wants to have anything to do with their Nationals. Nationals is doing nothing but destroying their strong chapters by instilling their PC crap and effectively ruining 150+ years of history and tradition.

......so, using your hazing laws logic.....if we made our pledges dress in khakis with a tucked in Polo or button down with boots or loafers (basically made them look like gentlemen everyday)........should we get into trouble as well?

Yes. Unless your brothers are expected to the exact same thing.

hahahahahah....thats great. We should get in trouble for teaching pledges to act like gentlemen and how to present themselves well. Great logic. You are obviously very far away from any respectable Southern greek system. I bet you have memorized your active manual. Congrats on that.

.......on a side note, all of my brothers know how to dress and look respectable, we don't have to "expect" it out of one another. When you are a pledge, its part of the deal. I haven't yet had a pledge class where anyone was opposed to looking nice.

Mac, not everyone here thinks the southern way is the best way. People here dance around that, but I'm tired of it not being said. It works for y'all, but those of us in the west, north and mid-west often have very different ways of doing things, and we like it that way. If we wanted to do things the way the southern chapters do it, we would.

I know, thanks.

from the Midwest
 

I'm a Sigma Pi from the Midwest and from what Mac is saying my chapter looks at pledgeing the same way he and his brothers do, you must earn your way in and some comical brokeback hazing sounds funny to me. Hell they weren't touched or hurt for that matter. If they didn't want to be there they could have up and left but they took it like good pledges should. If you think I'm being insensative, we currently have a gay brother in the Fraternity and he's just like one of us and jokes about other pledges being gay which, so don't even try and come at me with a homophobe comment either.

Unlike 80% of the chapters out there now we make our brothers earn there letter instead of giving them 3 weeks of edu. and handing them letters.

I love it when a bunch of fraternity bros start passing judgement on a school they've never been to. Makes me all tingly inside.

So, you are saying 52.4 of the 66 fraternities in the NIC only have 3 week pledge programs? Wow, I didn't realize it was that many.

Too bad I own a small ranch out in Vermont because the winters are nice out there and as a result have made acquaintances with a few UVM kids. I'm not saying I got a full vibe of the school because I'd never want to.

What the hell part of VT did you go to where the winters are nice?

That was my thought. Summers maybe, but winters?

Perhaps "nice" in his estimation means "lots of snow to ski on."

The above is correct.

Contrary to popular belief, it doesn't snow much in Arkansas.

WTF over. They made them drees up. They called them names. The horror!

What a joke! At least the court has their heads screwed on straight. Pun intended.

The greater issue is image - was it emotionally scarring? I have no idea, but if I had to guess I'd say no. I wouldn't stand for us doing it to our pledges, but that's me. But I can't fathom anyone wanting to be seen as homophobic.

Oh okay. You should probably know, it gets so cold at UVM that walking across campus requires a stop in a building every 5 minutes to un-numb your legs.

Update Dec. 8, 2006

A Vermont newspaper reports that the university has suspended the chapter.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/a...7015/-1/NEWS05

Station WCAX has a little more on the story on its site:

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=5788964&nav=4QcS

Here is a quote from the original article from the judge who dismissed the charges- and who I would assume is at least somewhat familiar with the law...

"Second, you have to prove that the activity was directed at a specific student or students and was done so with intent of causing mental or physical harm. The university didn't have a single declaration that any person was harmed."

Some of you people need to actually READ the various hazing laws before you make idiotic statements like the one I have quoted above from a previous poster.

Personally I found the incident a little stupid, but based on what we the public know (which is all I know- I have no other knowledge of this incident), there is no way to know if this was even ordered or if some guys were just fooling around to get a laugh.

I have been doing some in-depth research on modern hazing incidents and deaths and so far I am finding they are just as common up north as down south. We all have our own ways of doing things- but news reports like this should make us all aware that even in the privacy of our own homes just kidding around someone is interested in making a story out of us.

Maybe if a few more Greeks would appreciate this and band together instead of trying to feast on each other- we all might be better off.

Because your chapter may be next no matter how Angelic and perfect you think you and your brothers may be.

I have already found in my research some interesting situations where zero-hazing, substance-free house chapters have had serious risk management incidents. And there are also a great many old southern chapters out there who some might think push the line who have never been in trouble and have no deaths or serious injuries to their names.

I don't know anyone with a 3 week pledge program.

I actually know someone in the greek system at UVM (my best friend up there actually) so I can ask her rather than relying on newspapers, if there's any interest.

The Vermont Attorney General's office is appealing the judge's decision. The appral will be heard in district court, according to this article:

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/a...1012/-1/NEWS05

the procecuters get to appeal? Live Free or Die...or just take it