S.O. wearing badge
 

So, I have a question about the proper use of decoration for a Significant Other. The C&SC states in Code VI-18, "The Official Badge of the Fraternity shall be worn only by a fully initiated member in good standing or by his mother, sister, wife, or fiancée. This statute shall apply equally to all sizes of the Official Badge."

I also see the notation of Code VIII-4 which Lynn made reference to in another thread. However, I don't see the detail about "How to properly wear the badge" in the C&SC (perhaps I'm looking at an older C&SC edition).

In 1921, J. E. Mason wrote to B.H. McIntosh on the subject. He mentions:
- If a woman is wearing the badge, it is a sign that she's under the protection of LCA; thus, only fiancées should receive that honor.
- If a member only shows a "temporary fancy" for a woman, he can give her a Friendship Pin as a "casual compliment."
- If a woman (then fiancée; now Mom, Sis, Fiancée, Wife) does receive a badge, it doesn't matter what size it is. That was a matter of taste, not a ruling.


So, my 2 questions arise in my attempt to understand proper display.

1) Significant Others (i.e. mothers, sisters, wives, or fiancées) doesn't legally include girlfriends or "chapter sweethearts." Do you personally have experience with them wearing the Official Badge? What about letters? Contemporary LCA lavalieres and stitched twill letters are oftentimes considered of great import to chapters in regards to respect for the wearer (some chapters even inappropriately deny use of them by associated members). Any thoughts on this proper or improper usage of the fraternity letters? I'm not trying to bring up copyright infringement issues; I just want to hear thoughts on women's use of the fraternity letters.

2) There is oftentimes mention of significant others wearing a smaller version of the badge. I know there are smaller versions at IHQ, and a rare glimpse of older ones on eBay, but what about current versions? Are there any smaller badges currently in production? Does our current jeweler provide these? Do you know of any women from the current college generation that have been given the honor of wearing the Official Badge? (As a side question, is a smaller version of the badge still considered an Official Badge?)

I threw in a few tangents there, but hopefully it can spark some thoughts that will help me better understand current proper/accepted usage of our letters and badges. Thanks guys.

Yours in Z A X ,

Chris Hall

Ok, I don't have an answer for your above questions, but I do have another question to ask.

I notice that it does say fiance in the code. Well, here in good ol' liberal Massachusetts, two men can legally get married, therefore making one a fiance.

So, can a same sex couple with one of the person's being a brother, have their significant other wear the pin?

Yes
 

Yes,

Mike Raymond,

Zeta-Upsilon Zeta

Where to begin? OK-First, you need to realize that Lambda Chi Alpha doesn't have a "Badge Enforcement Division" or anything. No one is going to show up at your house and take away your birthday if do something you shouldn't have. That being said, it's up to each brother individually to decide what is appropriate. It's all about what those letters represent to you. Remember that when you give a "significant other" your letters, you're giving her my letters, too.

At my own chapter in the early 90's, Lavaliers were very popular. We had guys who were serial lavalier-ers. They'd go out with a girl for 2 weeks, and we'd see her running around the campus in letters. Then, in another two weeks, they'd be broken up and in another two weeks, it would be some other girl. Eventually, another brother (or several) might hold an intervention of sorts to remind the brother to consider more carefully in the future.

Most of us, though, took this stuff pretty seriously. If a steady girlfriend was given a lavalier, (or, if the brother was more steeped in fraternity tradition, a friendship pin,) it was a pretty big deal. It was the equivilant of a "pre-engagement." At this point, the young lady was permitted to wear the letters as well.

If a brother in our chapter had allowed a girl who did not meet the constitutional critera to wear an official badge, we would probably have driven him several miles into the state forest and dropped him off in the dead of night in his underwear. If he was very lucky. He might very well have been brought up on charges.

Now for the grain of salt. A few things you should know about me: 1.) I chose not to wear letters until I was initiated, because I didn't want to advertise something I didn't fully understand. 2.)In my life, I have only given a set of letters to one woman; my mother. 3.) I have frequently loaned my fraternity jacket to ladies on cold evenings, as I believe a gentleman should, but I always turned it inside-out first, lest anyone see the letters and get a wrong idea. So I probably take this stuff more seriously than most brothers do.

I too take my letters very seriously.

It is my understanding that a girlfriend may wear a friendship pin, but not a badge. I never permitted my wife, then girlfriend, to wear my badge and that was a point of contention for while.

I also waited a year to lavalier her. Her entire sorority knew how serious I am about the fraternity, and she hid the lavalier during the entire summer until bid day at her sorority for her candlelighting. No one thought I would give her my letters, but when she blew out the candle everyone screamed and was really excited for her, more so than when she had her engagement candlelighting, because they all knew we would get married, but they never thought I would give her my letters. To me lavaliering a girl is a statement that she means as much to you as the fraternity.

I don't know about the availabilty of smaller badges, but if anyone does, I would order one for my wife.

GRITS, glad to see you post.

I go with what it says - Mother, Sister, Fiancée or Wife (and I'd guess partner now).

The only one of the above that has worn mine was my sister - she thought it'd look good next to her Gamma Phi badge and presidents "dangle" thing... or as she called it her "bling"...

She has worn it on a few of her road trips down south, and to her conference - was only challenged on it by an AM... who promptly lost his pin somehow and didn't get it back until he offered many liquid 'apologies' :D

Good thoughts guys...any more ideas, stories, etc from posters?
Any leads on where to get a smaller version of the badge, or stories of seeing one?

Good to be here still, Matt. I may not post often, but when I do, it's usually long enough to make up for months with no GC. Haha. Plus, thinking on the subject, I've decided this topic will by my "fun fact" for next week's chapter meeting. We've been over the whistle, lesser known famous LCA's, origin of LCA colors, a bunch of ZAX techinical sessions, Ep-Om Zeta local history, ThKN's Rx vs AMC, and International Fraternity Identity. I think next chapter meeting I'll present proper badge/letters use to the guys.

Yours in Z A X ,

Chris Hall

That explains it
 

I always thought of women and the Fraternity identity in the context of badges, not letters. But the above exchange just shed some light on a recent discovery that I made - the tombstone of a woman that had the Greek letters LXA inscribed thereon.

More to be revealed later.

WOW Brother john!!! A new reveliation?;)



As many said so well, adorning a Female with Our Badge or Letters is a very serious thing for sure.

It or they are or should not be given lightly!

We have strived, worked, and sweated to wear Our Badge and Letters as many before us have.

I know that Herff Jones sells the miniature versions of our badge that you asked about in the original post. They were selling them during this summers General Assembly. They're not that much smaller though and I easily mistook them for the actual full-size badge while I was there.

I've seen them on the jewlery order form things they give when they send the paedagogus's and constitutions for AM's. Just a bit noticeably smaller than the regular badge. I too "dropped" my girlfriend of 4 years, same as lavaliering. I asked the entire chapter for permision too, never have I gotten so much shit for something in my life. Very serious thing for my chapter. She too had her candlelight ceremony, made her other sorority sister mad because she hadn't been dropped and she was engaged to our president. My mom has a letter shirt that says mother over the letters. I don't really mind if girls wears letters or jackets, but I think giving a lavalier or badge would be pretty serious. Hard to think about giving another male a badge or lavalier though.:confused:

Non-Brothers wearing badges
 

I agree. The idea of giving a badge or letters to a man who is not a brother rubs me the wrong way. If a man wants to wear our letters, why can't he join the Fraternity and get them the same way we did? Giving a badge to a woman puts her "under the protection of the Fraternity." Presumably, a man should be able to protect himself.

After all, the original provisions are for giving badges exclusively to women. Mothers, but not fathers. Sisters but not brothers. See where I'm going?

Mark

I don't want to intrude into the realm of Fraternity law but it would seem to me that the word 'fiance' is the problem. How is the word defined? I don't think that Webster's defines it as ONLY the female half of the relationship.

In a jurisdiction that permits gay marriage then arguably there are two guys, each of who is the fiance of the other.

Under our present statute it would seem that giving a badge or lavalier to the non-member guy in the relationship would be permitted as he would qualify as a fiance. We all know what the INTENT was but the present day result of this old language could give an unintended result.

I know that there are Brothers who are gay. I know that many are in long term relationships. I have been to Fraternity functions where partners have been in attendance and welcomed openly. The world has changed.

But I can clearly see the ambiguity if a guy, who isn't a Brother, shows up wearing a badge or letters.

Perhaps a change is needed to the C&SC to address this. I don't think it could be gender based unless we want to risk a lawsuit in the future. We may see the use of the friendship pin in place of the badge or letters - that would be the simple solution.

I just checked Webster's online and they define fiance as "a man engaged to be married," so it would seem to be defined as only the male half of the relationship. I see both sides of the argument. Balancing the possible confusion against those whom our brothers care about is difficult at best.

I think if the husband of a brother really wants to wear our badge he should commit himself to helping the chapter in order to be an honorary initiate.

No
 

Interesting question.

It's all in the spelling and how many "e"s are in the word. My dictionary defines fiance as "a man engaged to be married", and fiancee as "a woman engaged to be married".

Our fraternity is already gender based in that we don't initiate women. And as Grits and Ottor pointed out, the Code is also gender based in allowing only female non-members to wear the badge (mothers, not fathers; sisters, not brothers). Therefore, limiting the wearing of our badge to female fiancees (and not male fiances) would be consistent with, and no more discriminatory than, the policies we've had all along.

The reasons should be obvious. A man wearing our badge is assumed to be an initiated member while a woman is not.

Furthermore, how would it look if the significant other of a gay brother was already a member of another fraternity? Would he wear his Lambda Chi badge a little lower than, say, his TKE badge? Oh, the horrors! :)

So in my opinion the answer is no.

As for legalities, I've never heard of any lawsuits brought by fathers or biological brothers just because they weren't allowed to wear our badge while their wives or sisters were.

Notice that all these statements refer to wearing the badge as opposed to simply having one. Many badges are in the possession of male non-members (such as sons and grandsons of deceased Lambda Chis, antiques dealers, and collectors), although they don't wear them.

As Ottor pointed out, there's no "Badge Enforcement Division", so no one is going to break down your door for giving a badge to a loved one as a token of affection. In my opinion it should be acceptable for a father, brother, or fiance to be presented with a badge, but improper for any of them to actually wear it. They could, however, wear a friendship pin, which would be a good alternative when attending events.

Does this make any sense?

ZAX,
Jono

So...

Can a person in a homosexual relationship with a brother of LXA wear a pin or marker according to LXA guidelines?

Jono, what you posted makes perfect sense.

gammazeta, I am not so sure, but this seemed to be covered above.

But as mentioned if two Brothers in a relationship they can then wear their Badges.:)

It has nothing to do with being gay.

All our rulings point to one intent: We don't want uninitiated guys wearing the Lambda Chi Alpha badge, period.

Making an exception for gay men would, in effect, result in discrimination against straight men.

So my feeling is, if you want to marry a guy, go right ahead. It's very nice. But he should not wear our badge.

I just find this very interesting.

Although it may not be accepted by all, would the RULES of LXA allow for a homosexual brothers "husband" or S.O. to wear a pin?

What would be acceptable in a homosexual relationship to allow a S.O, etc., to show the world that he is in a relationship with a LXA?

Obviously it is ok for a wife or girlfriend to display their association, what could a homosexual partner of a brother do?

Nothing, it is not in the rules of LXA as I understand them.

If I am wrong then someone please explain them to me.

Did you not just read everthing that has been posted above? I believe that all of your questions have been answered quite clearly. Stop trying to stir up something. I sure there are more important things people in relationships straight or gay have to deal with, I doubt wearing a badge is one of them.

Well Honky, I find it amazing that you doubt "wearing a badge" is important.

To me, it is. And I will ask any question I want on any topic I want if I want further clarification.

Same gender couples
 

I believe that same gender couples were not contemplated when our governing documents were written in 1909. They've been amended since but more in form than substance.

Although we would know immediately that a woman wearing a badge was not an initiate, a same gender partner of a Brother would give rise to some ambiguity. Years ago presenting a spouse / mother with a badge was a stylish thing to do. I like the idea, but I've not seen it out here on the west coast - still a practice or a quaint out of practice custom?

I don't profess to know the answer, but I can see questions. I have been to LXA functions where a Brother brought his partner and I was confused at first because I thought that the guest was one of us!

The Committee on Emblems and Ritual may want to visit this topic at General Assembly in 2007. The badge police aren't gonna catch anybody in the mean time but this may be an appropriate topic for exploration for future deliberations.

Good idea John. Traditionally a pin has been used for females, what would everyone think of the idea of using something different, like a symbol instead of letters so that A. another male could wear something that represents his involvement with a LXA and B. it is not confused with a brother wearing letters.

John,
I'd note that in 1909 our fraternity would have banned jewish and african american men from joining too.
Also I didn't notice the difference between fiance and fiancee, but Jono you're right.
I think at this point this thread has been answered and probably should be closed before it gets out of control.

Maybe we should start a new thread addressing homosexuality within our fraternity and how we, as brothers, can better embrace it.

Like Em1843 said, at one time our fraternity did not allow african american or jewish men.

I think an open and frank dialogue will be helpful in starting to embrace and accept different lifestyles of brothers.

Whoops - you're absolutely right. I'm ashamed for forgetting about that - I know it was an issue, and a major one at that, when those changes were made, but they absolutely slipped my mind.

That's what I get for making entries just before going to bed or while sipping coffee at Starbucks.

I would agree!!

Well, I was around during that time Honky. The sorority sister in question who got all mad broke up with our brother about a week before their wedding, so in the end her getting upset over the drop was a distant memory.

The guys bugged you about the whole drop thing because your then-girlfriend was an easy target for the guys. Remember that she was always having to put up with the guys even before you two hooked up. Had it not been you and she then I doubt the guys would have made such a stink about it all.

Hmmm... did ANY of the couples from college stay together? All of those "serious" relationships sure ended in some ugly ways.

Amazingly our chapter has had success in producing long term relationships.

One brother just recently got married to his sorority sweetheart that he met while associating with LXA.

There are also numerous other marriages and possible marriages that came out of our chapter.

I guess it's just luck I guess.

Yes, Indeed!
 

Brother Cube,

Yes, Indeed! I meet my wife at a Lambda Chi party, she eventually became our Crescent Queen, we got married, and we will celebrate our 40th anniversary next August!

So, it can work out....

Yours in ZAX,

Mike Raymond,
Z-U Zeta

Mielke's nasty broken engagement ended working out better for him, he found a nicer girl that wasn't in a sorority and now he has twins. As for me, I'm better off without her, and she's whore now anyways, you have probably heard the stories about her.

LOL, reminds me of My Ex who was in a Sorority, Not to be named, and moved in with a Fraternity Brother from my chapter. We were both Alums and when I found out he was worried.

Well, she moved out on him as he was crazier than me!

He was worried I was upset.

Da!

Told him hey B, one gets married and maybe gets divorced, but We are Fraternity Brothers for life.

He and I are still good friends, have no clue where ex is!:D

Every now and then Tom comes out with a good story, and this was one hell of a good one!

ROTFLMAO :) (<--- look I even used an emoticon)

Tom has a lot more patience or understanding than me.

If that was me in his situation, it would turn out a bit differently.

Actually Mielke's wife, Patricia, had triplets but one sadly didn't survive the birth. His ex-fiancee moved to Washington DC and is destined to probably be the next scandal for the White House in 2010 or so.

By the way, it was good to see you on Saturday. I think I gained 20 pounds eating all those burgers. Yes, I have heard the stories about your ex... mostly from YOU, heheheheh.

I went out with a few Chi Omegas, but never anything serious. It's good that so many guys from other chapters went on to marry their sorority member sweethearts... unfortunately our chapter didn't have that kind of success. I honestly can't name a single one of the guys from our chapter who is still with his old college flame. It seems like they all had some UGLY breakups.

Ok so I was sitting in my apartment with a brother, and we were talking about this particular topic, and he brought up the fact that if we have daughters, it is not stated anywhere that they are allowed to wear our badge or letters. So my question is, is this true or not. If it is true, what is the reasoning behind it?

It may not have every been brought up. Question would be this: Is it daddy's badge, or boyfriend's badge?

Ohhhh I never thought of it being looked at like Dad's or Boyfriend's. Does anyone else have any information, or know if it has ever been brought up. It seems like every other woman in our life can be put under the 'protection' of Lambda Chi Alpha by wearing our Badge/Letters, I would think it would also apply to our daughters as well. Hopefully somone will know an answer to this question. :cool:

Oh and for the record I dont have any children......yet.....but oneday I hope too, and was just curious.......as always. :D