Sigma Alpha Epsilon Closes Case Western Reserve Chapter
 

Sigma Alpha Epsilon has pulled the charter of its chapter at Case Western Reserve U. in Cleveland. Memberss have been required to move out of the house. The university has withdrawn recognition of SAE for a period of at least six years. A party with kegs reportedly was a factor in the decisions, according to the article in the student newspaper, the Observer:

http://observer.case.edu/Archives/Vo...10/Story_1188/

SAE fined the chapter $15,000..... when (or if) the group recolonizes, will the new guys be responsible for that fine?

I'm guessing yes.

That's an awful lot of bake sales. :eek:

Not if it's the right kind of "bake" sales. Whoops was that out loud?

You, in the corner -------->
and then get in CT4's new handbasket.

From the article:

"Had the chapter been allowed to remain on campus, they would still have faced harsh sanctions. SAE national bylaws prohibit kegs at parties and levied a $15,000 fine on the Case chapter.

However, since the chapter was removed from campus by the judicial board, the fine will be left unpaid"

So I would assume that if they do recolonize, they won't have to have any bake sales ;)

It said "unpaid" not "forgiven"....which is why I asked my original question. :)

Technically speaking it's a different chapter. I'd hope they wouldn't be put into debt upon colonization. It would only put them at a disadvantage.

No, it would still be the XYZ chapter of SAE. Unless SAE works differently then 98% of GLOs.

No, I get that. Unless they do the "Deuteron" thing or some such. I'm just saying that the chapter itself is different. These guys didn't get in trouble and get a fine.

I'd just hope that they wouldn't get stuck in a position of such a large debt because it would likely mean higher dues and fewer social activies etc. It just seems counter-productive to recolonizing a chapter...

/this is all only IMHO

My guess is that Drolefille is correct, if SAE ever wants to recolonize at Case.

A $15,000 fine right off the top of recolonizing efforts, along with whatever the university requires, could be an insurmountable obstacle for a new group -- unless there are a lot of rich alums.

Just out of curiousity say like a few SAE's were having a kegger on their own time off campus. Some SAE's showed up some GDI's you know like your typical college gathering. It was never labeled an SAE party, could that hurt the chapter? Sorry if I sound stupid.

Based on my sorority's risk management rules (which may or may not be similar to SAE's) if you talk about it in chapter, send it through the email listserve or advertise it in any way as an SAE event (think Facebook), then it is and the chapter is responsible.

It doesn't sound stupid.

The rules vary from organization to organization. Some allegedly are so strict that if there are more than, say three, members present, it's considered a chapter event. That's pretty stringent.

If it was organized by members, it will often be considered a chapter event.

I can't see how it would be a big deal to have a keg, say, at your house off campus with some fraternity brothers and other people.

I didn't know that kegs were forbidden by SAE HQ at parties........I just thought it was a university wide rule for fraternities. There are tons of campuses that forbid kegs.

Depending on the Nationals bylaws, any party where several members are in attendence, it is considered a group party.

6 years is a very long time, but, the SAE National must have felt it was worth the effort to sanction them for this long. It is usually for 4 years when all of the current chapter graduates.

If Case Reserve is that important to SAE future plans, I am sure the fine would be overturned as shouldering a new colony there would be insurmountable.:(

There may have been much more than meets the eye.

I don't think Nationals would care if I had a keg at my house. Thats just stupid. I can't say I know of many people that think "hmmmm I wonder what my national bylaws say about entertaining guests at my own home?"

Tangent / semi-hijack, but it looks like a fair number of Case Western Reserve chapters have received recognition in 2006 from their inter/national organizations. Assorted awards (philanthropy, academics, improvement, top chapter or top group of chapters, and so on) are listed at:

http://studentaffairs.case.edu/greek/news/2416.aspx

End tangent / semi-hijack.

I'd say they would care.....we have a rule where 2 or more sisters attending make something a function. Even though it is on your personal property, if someone got hurt, etc, not only you, but your org can be held liable by pissed off parents, administrators, and lawyers.

Interesting tidbit, our chapter and one of the campuses fraternities are having a social....both groups are bound by FIPG policies. The fraternity president hadn't even heard of FIPG before, let alone what was required or not allowed under their guidelines. Is this common for fraternities not to be knowledgable about these policies? It concerns me that their advisors (they do have them) wouldn't make them aware to keep them out of trouble.

haha, I have to really disagree with you. This statement is almost comical. So you are going to tell me that if I was entertaining guests of legal age at my off campus house and someone got hurt.......my fraternity would be held liable? Last time I checked it was perfectly legal to posess liquor and a keg so long as you were operating in accordance with the law.

Sure, you can disagree....I don't mind.

In my experience and from what I've been taught over the years (and I've been at this about ten)...if you follow the written guidelines to the letter (which a lawyer itching for a lawsuit would do), then yes, technically you can be help liable and so can your org. Now, is it realistic? I can only hope not, but I don't doubt that our orgs have been screwed for much less.

If someone has another interpretation, please share.
-Trish

However, lets say that sort of thing does happen. X number of sisters throw a party and someone ends up hurt/sick/dead. As I understand it, if you follow the risk management procedures of your GLO (such as contacting the appropriate people at HQ) you and your chapter will be covered by their insurance. In a way, this could actually protect you individually.

If you and I are thinking of the same thing re contacting the appropriate people at HQ then my understanding is that it's covered by privilege. Whether or not it's covered by the insurance is up to the insurance company and their understanding of the policy contract.

Yeah I was just wondering if it is not like an fraternity/sorority sponsored event and there are just members there and members happen to be holding it if the entire chapter would suffer if something bad were to happen. Like say even if it wasn't beign advertised as a Greek event. I think it's a little extreme to say that just because some people have letters that it's associated with the chapter you know.

lol I don't know if we're thinking of the same procedures :) I was just always told that if we followed the risk management procedures we'd be covered. Now it wouldn't surprise me if the insurance company could argue otherwise, but I don't know how broad GLO inurance policies are either.

Ask someone in your fraternity who knows the procedures. An Advisor for example, or shoot an email to a national officer. They'd probably be able to give you specifics that even other SAE's on here can probably only speculate at.

Could it? Yup. Should it? Depends. How badly? Up to the jury.

It's like I used to tell people at my old job. Someone can sue you (the chapter) for whatever they like. How far they can get with the suit is up to the judge and the attorneys.

I always felt unsatisfied with that explanation. It's more like if you don't follow R/M procedures you're screwed way more than you can imagine. If you do follow R/M procedures then maybe the charter won't get pulled.

Of course, theoretically if you were following RM procedures the entire time most problems wouldn't happen. But in a hypothetical case where the chapter truly did nothing wrong (such as a party that wasn't advertised by the chapter but something happened) you should be covered. I see what you mean though, and lucky me I'm not in college anymore so I don't have to worry about it :p

Come on guys....do yall really go out and party thinking about your national's Risk Management procedures? I dunno, maybe yall do.....which I would find rather silly/ridiculous.

Sorry, I just don't go to friends houses to party or go to the bar thinking about whether or not i'm following RM Procedure. I generally save those concerns for actual SAE events.

I still disagree though with the house thing. How is that any different than going to a bar where there is a group of people in your same fraternity? If some one gets too drunk at a bar and does something stupid.....do you really think an attorney is going to go after the GLO? I can't see that happening in any case whatsoever.

And lucky me I'm not an advisor any more so I don't have to worry either!

Brother,
There is no short way to answer that question. As someone else already posted, if you really want the best answer, contact RM Director at National.

From both my own experiences and from reading the news, if any member (s) of any social/sport/GLO/living group have a "situation/problem" off of campus, the name of the group will end up in the press.

FYI: Among those experiences were a riot and a murder.

I agree.

And what about family members who are in the same GLO. When they get together - say for someone's birthday or a holiday - would that be considered a GLO event?

I hope someone can clear this up soon. With the holidays coming up, I would like to know if we need to contact IHQ about how much bourbon we are allowed to put in the eggnog.

hahaha, good point. My dad is an SAE, as is my Grandfather....and I know that some of my dad's pledge brothers that live in my hometown are going to be over at the house. Should we contact nationals and let them know? Man, I hope they don't tell us that we'll have to split up our Thanksgiving dinner due to our house's wine cellar.

HAHAHA, that's funny, It's awesome that both your grandfather and your dad are SAE's or in a fraternity for that matter. I was the first to go to college in my family, and I hope my son does the same. I hope that the Greek system isn't totally destroyed by then though.

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ad.php?t=81957

That thread shows how an event that is not a chapter sponsored event can result in your fraternity being sued. It's happening to that chapter, right or wrong. Whether the fraternity ends up being held liable is yet to be seen, but in the meantime, they are going to have pay big bucks in legal fees and participate in a law suit that is dragging their name through the mud and harming their reputation. Doesn't sound like a situation I'd want my fraternity or sorority to be in (or myself for that matter).

The practical reality is that often when an undergraduate is involved in any kind of accident resulting from what the general public associates with "fraternity behavior"- the fraternity will be named in news articles because it will attract more interest.

Is it right or fair? Of course not. But it is what it is.

Macallan25- your example is a good one for the point I am about to make, though clearly you are not having an official SAE event over Thanksgiving dinner.

What really drives these kinds of incidents is whether the press has access, or even knows to investigate, whether you are in a fraternity when they are reporting on the accident.

As fellow Texas students and graduates appreciate, the Daily Texan paper is always on the watch for fraternity stories they can publish because they have some kind of immature hatred of Greeks.

They sneak into closed parties (thereby breaking the risk management regulations of the University and GLOs- but I guess they figure they are entitled), they wait around at the jailhouse on weekend nights to see who gets arrested- and they investigate to see if names of anyone in an incident of some kind can be linked to a fraternity.

And then they will publish that information with the story.

And it is not just the Daily Texan that does this. In fact, if you read carefully the books "Wrongs of Passage" you will see a great many, if not the majority, of the incidents referenced in that book cannot be reasonably traced to any kind of hazing or other systematic weaknesses in a given Greek chapter. The author takes some care to make note of this in the index of incidents, but the text of the book (all most people will read anyway) does not make these distinctions.

It is good for business when the media can do a negative report on a fraternity member instead of just a regular college student- just like it is good for business to report on the mysterious disappearance of attractive young white women (Peterson, Smart, Holloway etc.) and yet ignore the vastly larger victimization rates of minority women. The isolated incident often arising from a domestic dispute is more important than a serious social issue because it gets more ratings and sells more advertising slots.

The frustration comes from the fact that IHQs, in response largely to demands by insurance companies, have to therefore institute policies like "3 members in a room represent the group no matter the circumstances" to protect the organization as a whole from those few rare instances where something happens to a handful of members and it becomes a major media event.

I don't like it. But I don't see a viable alternative either. Even with the greatest of care by a chapter, eventually someone with some connection (or someone present at an event with no connection) is going to do something dumb. And sometimes those incidents will make the papers.

When I was at Texas there was a very rare sorority pledge death that got no press coverage at all despite some very interesting circumstances. And yet there was weeks of coverage over a time when a Daily Texan reporter illegally snuck into a closed party and reported on the choice of a couple of members to wear black-face.

So make no mistake- this is all a crapshoot and often has little to do with the media seeking to serve the best interests of the public. Major incidents go under the radar at times. And at other times matters that are not even illegal and happen behind closed doors become major events.

What can be done about it? Your guess is as good as mine. This problem goes beyond fraternities- any group is subject to the same risk. And some people in life get really hosed for no good reason.

I'm not harping on you, but what do you do then? This whole discussion is complete horse shit. Should we all just stay as far away from our friends and fraternity brothers as possible? I mean, what do you do?? Kick guys out of your home when there are too many SAE's there? Leave a bar because more than 3 or 4 of your brothers are in the same room? That is ridiculous.

Frankly, I think the family of the kid that died should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. As I said before, I think it is absolute bullshit that they would sue a fraternity when it is quite clear that he was doing something that had absolutely nothing to do with the chapter. It's almost like they chose to ignore the plain facts of the case when it was quite clear what happened. For them to honor their son's death by suing the organization, for money, that he probobly loved...is a joke.....and I would have no problem telling them that to their faces.

Brother,
Good joke! And it is good to see a SAE tradition in your family.
IMHO/POV, this thread is talking about or dealing with undergrads in college and what happens either on campus or near by in off campus housing or locations.

To the best of my knowledge and experience, media would be likly include any group membership in a DUI case of a 20 year old on a campus but not in a report on a DUI of a 40 year old.