Do you think your organization's risk management policies go overboard?
 

Are your organization's risk management policies overboard or overbroad?

No stringing for Bigs because the pledges having to go up & down & through the house unwinding yarn could be hazing. Please.:rolleyes:
(Although we can thank the DU whose Big strung out the window and through the basketball hoop for that campus policy.)

Our chapter was very sensible about it.. we've done unwinding yarn and such. The only real annoyance was the fun scavenger hunts we did (where everyone participated) they became "everyone goes and takes pictures of different things and we all meet at Ted Drewes" events instead.

ADPi considers requiring anything of the new members outside of the approved new member education plans/all-chapter requirements to be hazing. So unless the entire chapter is invited to participate or it is an all-Greek Panhellenic sponsored event like New Member 101, it could be seen as hazing according to our view.

Can you really be too careful about risk management and rules? If an incident happens that does violate a policy, its bad enough. But at least disciplinary action can be taken to save the reputation of other members and chapters. THe reality is having rules in place to protect members' and the overall organization's safety and reputation does not interfere with the ability to have a good time. Bonds between members can still be just as strong.

Overboard, big time
 

How about no pictures that even insinuate drinking on Facebook. No styrofoam cups, no Solo cups, anything. Regardless of whether or not you're in letters or over 21.

Also, we are no longer allowed to share function costs with other sororities or fraternities... i.e. no mixers. Even a "date party" with XYZ is pushing it apparently.

I know that you can't buy alcohol, but are you saying you can't even buy non-alc bevvies or food or help pay for the rent of wherever you're holding it?

I thought they were a little strict my first year, but after being on exec I was grateful for anything that helped cover our butts legally.

No.

It is my organization's responsibility to keep over 900 chapters and over 200K members in check. They are doing what they need to do to account for every contingency that they can account for beforehand.

Yes, we cannot buy alcohol, but that has been around forever. However, when we host a function, we must pay 100% of the cost. So say we have a "date party/mixer" with XYZ, we foot 100% of the bill for the location, food, etc.

I do want to say that I do not believe our Nationals is the problem. They are simply doing everything possible to cover us and themselves from a lawsuit. It is the insurance provider and our society that have made policies too strict.

Not that insurance even matters. If one girl is found to have consumed alcohol while underage, we would lose our insurance coverage.

A date party I understand (in my vernacular a date party is where sisters invite dates from several fraternities or perhaps not from a fraternity at all and therefore you are the sole hostesses), but I don't understand the rationale of making you pay all the costs for a co-sponsored mixer. It seems as though it would put you at more risk, rather than less.

We have to change our vocabulary to "date party" when we have what is really a "mixer." Mixer implies that the cost is shared. I do not understand the logic either. Also, what was formerly called a "date party/cocktail," where sisters invite dates, must now be referred to as a "hangout."

A hangout? That sounds as though you are all going to wear skimpy tops and go without bras, LOL. And of course mixer implies the cost is shared...that's the point...

No offense to SSS, but that's some of the dumbest RM stuff I've ever heard in my life. Keep making the sisters pay for everything, and eventually there won't be money to have any more social events of any kind. Oh, wait...ding ding ding...we have a winner.

Whatever the intention, that is how a lot of girls have taken it.

Yes, it goes way overboard.

My APO chapter changed our "scavenger hunts" to something similar....and even now, I believe they are on the road to evolving further. Instead of giving pledges clues and saying go find.....(random object) I think we will just make it a self guided tour of the things we'd like for them to see.

Ditto with APhiA. I am not one of those MIP-haters. (Membership Intake Process, as opposed to pledging) If a chapter is SERIOUS about both member selection and MIP, it can be a very, VERY beautiful and moving experience.

Also, Alpha has not done away with a lot of the things that make BGLOs unique that some see as a risk management issue. We still allow neophyte shows, line names, and other accoutrements of the "old" process. We gave them new meanings, though. Obviously they aren't "pledge" names but they are still names we give out based on personality and other experiences.

I just hate that some BGLOs are legislating and abolishing ALL aspects of "the old way." Some things aren't a risk issue if you change the meaning.

Like my APO chapter.....about 15 years ago, we got in trouble for lewd nicknames. They didn't make us stop nicknaming all together, they just told us to clean it up. And we did..... :)

I agree with the picture restrictions. Sure it might not be the best image to project to the community, but lets let the girls have the opportunity to make some decisions for themselves. It isn't as if a drunken picture or two is going to hurt the girls, PNMs or anyone else. The potential of the pictures having any affect on lawsuit exposure is minimal and if we did everything possible to minimize lawsuit exposure, we wouldn't have sororities to belong to because they would be isolationist, boring, convents.

Yeah, SAE at Oklahoma almost got royally screwed in '05 over some pictures.

That's SAIs policy all the way. We've had some trouble with it. You know, there used to be requirements of pledges that were not hazing, but helping the MIT to get integrated into the chapter. Like interviewing sisters-nope, no more. Technically, we don't even have a big/lil program. Each pledge is assigned a sister to help her during pledging, but technically it's not a big, oh and technically, I don't have a G-big or a GG-big either.

I think it's getting a little extreme. Like, I don't even feel like I know hardly any of the girls that came in during the spring. But, I can understand why those rules are in place--no matter how un-fun it makes their MIT period.

Phi Sigma Pi is a whole different animal in itself. We have hazing policies, but there are also things for us to finish during pledging that is outlined in our national constitution as part of the process. Our biggest thing is that, as a brother we are not allowed to drink, smell, hold alcohol in our hands--anything--if an initiate is around. Even if they are drinking, we can't.

WOW, I am actually sure They Got Screwed as they showed pictures of being stupid and in a R M position that they should not have been in!

SAE is not pure as the driven snow! To many reports that come in about screw ups in RM!

Realize the problem and try to deal with it.

Grow up, SAE is not a Snow White Fraternity!

So you know what happened? You know the situation? You know the illegalities that took place on the part of the person that turned them in? Also, I don't go to Oklahoma dumbass. Thanks though.

You are nothing short of an idiot, drunken buffoon. Spare me your self-righteous garbage.

The ones I've read all treat college students as children.

My philosophy. Treat them as adults. Expect them to act as adults. Set out the consequences for NOT acting as adults, and follow through.

Risk Management
 

The initiatives and work that our brotherhood has attained in regards to Risk Management are superb. However, when chapter specific traditions begin fading away because the fraternity starts getting too paranoid it doesn't rub off on the older alums that good. I'm on board with legal issues, anti-hazing, etc but for crying out loud when the chapter begins eating granola bars and going to bed early you lose some of the experience. J/K on the granola and sleeping early but you get my point.

Regards,

Boodleboy322

Well I know of the risk reduction our policy holds and it is a pretty scrutinizing piece of material. I mean they say that we cannot have people ride on the float during homecoming. That is just being nit-picky. But the ideas dealing with alcohol I totally approve of, because they are there to limit us from getting tickets, getting hurt, or hurting other people. So I mean, we pay a chunk of change for insurance but our risk reduction policy won't even let us get to that stage and doesn't that just defeat the purpose of having insurance? I mean not completely but it does affect it a lot!

International, no. Chapter, yes. But that is partially my fault, so I can't talk.

i think anyone who gets mad and thinks they are being hazed and its a risk managment issue for having a scavenger hunt, that doesnt involve illegal actions, shouldnt be a part of the greek world in the first place. I just joined my sorority and my entire pledge class wanted to do a scavenger hunt but we couldnt because people have complained in the past about it. They pretty much ruined it for the rest of us.

I'm surprised I haven't said this in this thread yet, because I think it every time I read it...

The vast majority of these rules, especially things like the scavenger hunts, are set by our insurance companies. We have to have liability insurance and they dictate these things. The inter/national organizations don't have a lot of choices with these rules.

This.

Personally I think its kind of funny that two of the service fraternities on my campus are able to do more than we are with our new members ie: sister visits, scavanger hunts...etc.

At 6 years old my parents started having scavanger hunts at our birthday parties. twelve years later and I'm a legal adult and its not safe for me to do a scavanger hunt either as a new member or an initiated sister??? hmmm...:rolleyes:

All activities must be optional for new members, but as an initiated sister the same optional activities are mandatory for me??? hmmm....:rolleyes:

pretty please if I sign a waiver that I won't sue or press charges can I go on a scavanger hunt. LOL!

Yes. One of my organizations forbids families, encourages to say "mentor and mentee" instead of "big and little", and disallows us to buy paddles to the point where if any of us are caught with them our charter would be revoked.

i was the rik management chair for my chapter this past semester and we had two sisters get hit by a car after leaving our semi-formal. after going through that, i will never again say that any risk management rule goes too far. i cannot begin to tell you how many policies covered our butts. remember, all of the risk management policies are there for a reason, mostly because they could hurt someone or already has hurt someone. they aren't just stupid rules that came out of nowhere. the chance of someone getting hurt might be absolutly microscopic but it is there and the policy will help you recover if something does happen.

risk management is there to keep you safe

Personally I think that risk management is one of the most important things our execs do for us. Unfortunately we had a very serious accident last year at a Greek party, and thanks to our risk management education (which is required) the situation was able to be responsibly and properly dealt with. The fact that we are a group who are educated in crisis management can be helpful in many situations, not just in terms of policies protecting our organizations legally, but also in situations where accidents can occur.

I think risk management is one of the most important parts of the chapter. My school had a strong greek life in the 1970's and 80's, but due to excess partying, noise, and alcohol abuse the school went on to become a "dry" campus in the 1990's. They also started to blame the old greek system for many of the problems that arose from all this. Chapters were constantly under suspension and review and an incident in the early 1990's which caused the death of a pledge caused the entire Greek system to finally crumble and be banished from campus. When my chapter settled on campus in 2001, it was a very difficult process because of what had happened in the past. Law suits and liability has made risk management a very important part of the chapter structure. No one wants to get sued or arrested, then be labeled all over again.

Yes, national fraternities stink. They want nothing social and pledgeship to be about hugs and kisses.

Risk management is one of the most important aspects of Fraternity Life. It is a vital part of keeping an organization alive. It teaches our future CEOs and business owners the value of determining the risk behind every action

Hazing legislation, on the other hand, is stupid

The wording is too vague, and it unfairly applies to some groups of people and not others.

It is the definition of poorly written legislation.

Poorly written or poorly implemented or both?

Yes.

No, I don't believe so. I believe the rules are there for a reason.