Escondido, CA: Law stops renting to illegal immigrants
 

Ya think this is gonna be enforced? Ain't gonna happen
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061019/...grants_housing


City leaders have approved an ordinance prohibiting landlords from renting to illegal immigrants, the latest in one of many efforts by local governments across the country to crack down on undocumented workers.

More than 100 police officers and sheriff's deputies in riot gear were on hand for the 3-2 vote Wednesday. After the measure was approved, one person ran outside the council chamber and yelled, "The USA wins!" prompting opponents and supporters gathered on the lawn to shout at each other for 30 minutes. Police said no arrests were made.

The American Civil Liberties Union has indicated it will go to court to block implementation of the ordinance, set to take effect Nov. 18.

Councilman Sam Abed, who supported the measure, said it will improve the city's image and reputation, "and certainly our quality of life."

Mayor Lori Holt Pfeiler and Councilman Ron Newman, the two no votes, said the ordinance would create new problems for Escondido, a city 30 miles northwest of San Diego. Hispanics make up 42 percent of Escondido's 142,000 residents.

Pfeiler said everyone agrees illegal immigration is a problem, but the ordinance "is going to have neighbor against neighbor."

Under the law, landlords will be required to submit documentation of their tenants' immigration status to the city, which will then submit the information to the federal government for verification.

If tenants are found to be illegal immigrants, landlords would be given 10 days to evict them or face suspension of their business license. Repeat offenders could face misdemeanor charges and fines.

Recent national scrutiny of immigration policy has led to similar proposals around the nation.

Earlier this year in Pennsylvania, the city of Hazleton passed legislation that would punish businesses that employ illegal immigrants and landlords who rent to them. The community of Riverhead on New York's Long Island passed a similar law in September.

In San Bernardino, Calif., an attempt to present such a measure to voters was dismissed by the courts in June. And in Florida this summer, ordinances were voted down by city councils in Avon Park and Palm Bay.

What amuses me is that the ACLU is getting involved. It's so deliciously ironic, them standing up for civil liberties for illegal immigrants.
Just so you know, my personal stance on the issue is that they should all get green cards. Not citizenships, but green cards. After that they need to watch the borders closely.
Throwing them all out helps absolutely no one.

Seriously, isn't there something more productive that the town could have its police doing with their time? Checking to see if they have the right papers is insane. What's next?

GOOD!!!

This might not be that difficult to enforce. The level of identifiability for illegal immigrants is high in that area, so they can enforce this just as they would enforce penalties against employers who employ illegals.

I'm surprised this went through. I was so sure nothing would get passed that I barely listened to anything on the news about this. From the above article I'm going to hazard a guess that "landlords will be required to submit documentation of their tenants' immigration status" would apply only to tenants that admit to not being US citizens. Otherwise, every single renter would have to submit something to their landlord. Which means that the city and the federal government would have to confirm every single renter in the city. I've always been under the impression that Escondido has a high percentage of renters. It'd be a waste of resources both at the city but also the federal level.

Also, considering the city is largely Hispanic and the proximity to the border, it be a hard sale to claim this isn't targeting Hispanics. Immigration policies on a National level I'm almost always willing to believe are not targeting Hispanics, but this is just too glaring to ignore.

I've been up all night, so maybe that's why, but I'm not understanding what you mean. Can you expand on that?

Dang, where do I get a pair of THOSE rose-colored glasses??

Yes, I realize it can be naive. It's just that I realize there's lots of illegals from plenty of other ethnicities. Plus, because of where I live, I don't so much think of Hispanics as immigrants (illegal or otherwise) as I think of them as just being a part of the community. :shrug: Honestly, when I hear "immigrant" I think Hispanics last. For some reason I think of European immigrants first!

I really have no problem with this.

There are some parts of the country where the illegal immigrants aren't Hispanic.

I realize that, but in working with my husband's immigration papers lately, it's hard to NOT see the National policy that IS directed at Hispanics.

Alpha, could it possibly be that national policy against illegal immigration is targetted at hispanics principally because the vast majority of illegals are hispanic?

Personally, I think the law is a great idea.

Ditto! i feel ya about working on the husband's immigration papers :rolleyes: (except mine is from further North) :)

Did you 2 marry illegal immigrants? :confused:

I mean . . . you're obviously wearing alternately-colored glasses, considering your husband is not a legal immigrant - few of us are unbiased.

I think the reality is that a huge number of illegal immigrants are Hispanic, and thus any immigration policy will affect the Hispanic population more than others. This doesn't make the policy more or less valid - it seems like jobs and housing are two of the only realistic ways to attempt to regulate illegal immigrants form the 'supply-side', as it were, no?

I don't dispute that at all. I dispute the statement that SoCalGirl made about national policy not being directed at Hispanics.

It is directed at Hispanics, as it should be. Its not racism, its addressing the problem.

can't speak for Alpha Frog but no I didn't marry an illegal. However, we still had to do the long drawn out process for him to get a Green Card

Me neither - no problem with this at all.

Since Hispanics are our biggest miniroty, whether this is aimed at them or not, it will have a bigger overall effect on them as a group.

If enforced fairly, though, it will affect any undocumented person.

I guess the way I look at the whole situation is that "illegal" means just that and laws should be enforced. If a law is unfair (any law), get it changed. I know that's not easy, but the option is the kind of chaos that is present in our immigration system today.

People who are going through the process of attaining citizenship or getting the prescribed documents to live and/or work here are not "illegal," only the sometimes victims of what may be a difficult system.

It really does make me sad that a lot of illegal immigrants move here to better their life, and they really try. It's easy to say 'send them all back!' when you don't know what they'd be going back to.
The illegals that piss me off are the ones who don't work, who take advantage of the system and basically churn out babies while draining the government.
I'm legal and it's still really hard to get my citizenship. I'm aiming to get it before 2008 so I can help vote this administration out.

This administration will be out in January 2009 regardless of the 2008 election.

My parents got lucky when they got theirs because it was a major election year so they expedited everyone's oaperwork so that they could all become citizens and register to vote.

I misworded my post. What I meant was, so that I vote in someone who had NOTHING in common with this administration. Different policies etc.

This is true, but "SEND THEM BACK THEY TOOK ERR JUBS DERB" isn't really the issue - it's really more that enforcement of immigration laws is incredibly difficult, and so 'alternate' methods like housing regulations, etc are about the only way to make any changes short of blowing up the entire system (which I would be in favor of, but slow change is probably the better motif here).

"Councilman Sam Abed, who supported the measure, said it will improve the city's image and reputation, "and certainly our quality of life.""

This statement really bothered me. I thought they were taking a firm stance against Illegal immigrants because they are here illegally.

Too bad. Their problems are not my problems. Well.. they're not my problems until these people move here seeking a better life, a welfare check, free medical care, clogging our criminal justice system, etc.

An illegal alien is an illegal alien. If they're so much as driving on my state's roads without paying the appropriate taxes, they are creating more problems than they're solving. Cheap labor is not that huge of a benefit considering what it costs society in the long run.

I wonder if the Native Americans felt this way when the illegal "aliens" came, robbed them of their land, cleansed them out, and forced the rest into reservation [camps]. hmmmm.

I digress.

Can anybody provide a compelling reason why landlords should have a role in enforcing U.S. immigration laws? RC kind of touched on this, but I'm not convinced. Isn't this a case of the government being too lazy/incompetent to do its job and enforce its laws -- or, in the alternative, a futile attempt to do the impossible?

Well, we had more guns. We won that war, they signed away their lands, etc. Stronger, better armed civilizations have had a history of pushing the weaker guys around... so what? By such an "illegal" standard, all of us non-N.A.'s are invaders and we should just pack our bags and head back to whatever part of the world we came from.

That's all ridiculous of course, this couldn't happen. The United States is the rightful soveriegn over this land. If the Mexicans want to try and cleanse us out, they are free to try. If that's their aim we're not doing much to stop them.

Anything to slow down or stop this influx of illegals would be welcome and helpful. I really don't care about the Native Americans 100 years ago. I care about my own country right now.

Maybe it arises out of a duty not to assist someone in committing an illegal act?

I just made that up, but it sounds good to me.

Right. I can feel the pain of people who are seeking a better life but a relaxed immigration policy isn't the answer. Many of these nations that these illegals come from have very strict immigration and visitation policies that preclude people being able to do in their country what has been done in ours.

Moreover, contrary to conventional wisdom, the browning of our society through immigration and illegal immigration doesn't lead to increased diversity and tolerance. Instead, it leads to increased racial tensions as the connection between economics and race is highlighted even more.

I can't say that I wouldn't try to be an illegal in America if I was desperate. But it stopped being a small, "oh, these people are seeking a better life and we should feel sorry for and cater to them...just think of little Elian Gonzalez" over a decade ago and over a million people ago.

:) Sure, the Native Americans weren't accustomed to having non-Native Americans around on a more constant basis. But, the Native Americans were also benefitting from the settlers' presence at one point (the new diseases not included).

If the settlers had settled peacefully and contributed positively without oppressing the Native Americans, there would be a different ending to the story. So when people use the "how do you think Native Americans felt" response, I wonder if they have really thought-out that retort. The Native Americans initially felt similarly to how Americans initially felt when the immigration rate was relatively low decades ago--"okay, new people that we're not used to...are they clean and will they harm us? Well...capitalism is benefitting so maybe we can milk this for all its worth...let's hope this doesn't get out of control though."

There are many laws that the gov't can't enforce without citizens' assistance.

I also wonder how far they are taking the liability on this. If they're asking for ID cards, etc as proof of legal status, many illegals have pretty dang convincing fakes.

Meh, I think you're misstating your terms here . . . we could just as easily parse this as "Can anyone provide a compelling reason why teachers should have a role in enforcing child abuse laws?" due to their mandatory reporter status - or we could flip the phrasing, and say that landlords are now charged with ensuring their dollars are coming from a legitimate, legal source, upholding the law of the land w/re: their own income.

It's a fine line, and ultimately the semantic argument doesn't hold much water - the reality of the situation is that modern immigration reform, which essentially requires 'band-aids' over existing gaps, probably means removing easy supply-side enabling of aliens. Landlords who rent to illegals are certainly enablers, although not on the same level as, say, employers.

I just wanted to note this - this is simultaneously the biggest reason for and against what I've discussed above. Faking documentation always has happened and always will - that's another area to attack, but it definitely means that checking more stringently in other areas for things like doubled SSN/etc. can only serve to actively attempt to seek out aliens.

Public school teachers are government employees...so I have no issue with requiring them to help enforce laws.

RC touched on this, but I don't think this is really the feeling at all. It's just another idea in trying to stem off illegal immigration. The government feels like enlisting citizens in this way will help the effort.

Good luck in getting your citizenship - I think it's great that you're going through the process and going about things the right (and legal) way. I helped a friend of mine study for the citizenship exam in college, so that gave me a glimpse into the work people do to become citizens.

Those same laws apply to private school teachers. So the fact that they're government employees is not a controlling factor here.