Bush's Sandwich maker to Harvard
 

http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=513563

"HBS spokesman James E. Aisner ’68 explained the decision to accept Gottesman, even though he is not a college graduate, by telling The Economist that “extraordinary circumstances will sometimes compel it to drop [its] rule” of only admitting students who hold bachelor's degrees. "


apparently making PB&J sandwiches and holding mints are "extraordinary circumstances"

I can't even formulate my thoughts into words, so I will just ...

Whats the big deal. I imagine that kid has acquired more knowledge doing that than most of us did in college.

Maybe that is because he spends all his time hanging around Bush's 2 dogs.

Seriously, since when is dating Jenna Bush 10 years ago criteria for Harvard's Business Program (which i'm just gonna assume is something like an MBA)

If he werent connected to W, none of yall would give a damn.

I don't even know why this is a news story. Seriously, it's a huge honor to be the President's personal assistant, no matter what president you work for. It looks like Mr. Assistant just used the prestige of his position to his advantage.... sounds like a smart guy to me :)

Exactly - and I'm not sure any of us wouldn't try the same thing in his position.

I'm guessing he's getting negative attention because of how unpopular the President is, not because he is taking advantage of the opportunity. I don't see how you can slander the guy for taking the chance to study at Harvard.

Just a reminder of how ridiculous networking can be.

Probably both.

I'm not mad at him for taking advantage of the pull that the Pres has on some decisionmakers at Harvard. Does it make it a ridiculous exception to entry criteria? Yep.

If he wasn't connected to W, chances are he wouldn't have tried and succeeded in getting to Harvard business.

<---doesn't dislike W

Right, but my point was that it doesn't matter what President he worked/works for. I held a position at the White House while Clinton was in office and it has DEFINITELY opened doors for me. People are intrigued by it. I think the guy was smart to apply to Harvard Business School. He probably had a recommendation letter from the President, which is kickass. I'd definitely use that to my advantage for the rest of my life if I were in the same boat.

Well I was really just responding to shinerbock's post.

Congratulations on having doors opened for you. The weight of your position should be based on your roles and responsibilities. If you were nothing but a glorified errand person, or didn't do anything that substantially overrode your failure to go to college, I would chuckle if you were accepted into ANY MBA program without a bachelor's degree.

I wasn't mentioning my position to be congratulated, I was making the point that people, universities included, are intrigued by job experience where the applicant has worked for a person in a position of power....particularly the President.

And again, shredding important papers for a person in power shouldn't be considered "job experience" that overrides the completion of 4 or more years of higher education.

i'd venture to say that even if the president wasn't unpopular the whole getting a master's without an undergraduate degree first would probably ruffle a few feathers.

did you have an UG degree at the time?

It's not a matter of opening doors. Or at least it shouldn't be.

It's a matter of standards.

Or a lapse of them.

Yeah, I'm sure you don't learn anything being PA to the President...give me a break.

He better have had an awesome recommendation letter from the President to get into a graduate program at Harvard WITHOUT a bachelor's degree...hell he went to college for one year!

I could careless who the President was, I don't think its right that one of his "lap dogs" (and couldn't he have had a higher position than just a sandwich maker/dog babysitter?) Got into --what i'm assuming is a prestigious business school-- without really much educational knowledge in the field.

Who knows...the man could be dumb as rocks, and still got into Harvard because of W.

<-----Doesn't like W either, and i'm from Texas. :D

Sometimes it's not about what you know...

Is there a clause in Harvard's business school entry policies that state that a bachelor's is not required if 1) said person acquires a certain type and amount of experience and 2) this certain type and amount of experience must be with a prestigous and/or reputable employer?

Is there even anything that says "business school requirements are on a case-by-case basis?"

I know about loosening requirements based on the application pool or other extenuating factors. But waving off the bachelor's degree is too much. Tell him to get a degree from SOMEWHERE and then come back and use his President-helper-thingie to get into Harvard.

No. Give me a break.

Of course you can learn a lot using on the job training, but there are still some standards that should be met.

In my personal case, I dropped out of college with 14.5 quarter hours remaining to take a TV director job.

After over 15 years of experience directing everything from local news to national network sports, I went back and finished my degree through what was at that time called "experiential learning," which offered credit for life experience -- providing that experience was roughly equivilent to what the courses in the university program taught.

It took a year and a lot of writing to complete. One of my advisors in this program had spent a year with me as a National Association of Television Program Executives faculty intern working under me. I was teaching college level production courses at the time.

But I still had to go through the formal process.

I suspect this person is outsanding, but it is beyond my comprehension that someone with no bachelors degree could be admitted for any kind of advanced/terminal degree at an institution with the reputation of Harvard.

That is pure politics.

Getting in is one thing, making it through is something completely different.

Yes. The clause is that Harvard's Business School is a private entity, and can do its thing however it wants to....regardless of what the rest of us think. Which is why I don't really have an opinion either way. I can see both sides, but what it comes down to, is not what you or I say, but what the Harvard people say.

Yes ma'am, I thought the same thing. Who's to say this kid can even pass his classes or not drop out in a year.

You have an interesting story. :)

This is old news and was discussed ad nauseum months ago on college-related boards.

http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/ad...ncriteria.html

The link above discusses admission criteria for Harvard. Even if the applicant does not have a BA/BS, the GMAT scores must be submitted. With an average score of 707, I'm sure that this particular applicant must have a truly stellar score to outweigh his lack of undergraduate education.

Personally, I'm much more confortable with the admission of this young man to Harvard as compared to the Yale acceptance of the ex-Taliban member.

DUH.

But back to my question. ;)

This is what I was looking for. I "wonder" what his score was.

apparently academic performance wasn't as scrutinized as other students.

Yeah guys, I'm sure Harvard is just catering to him because he worked for Bush. This makes the most sense, seeing how Ivey's absolutely LOVE conservatives and all. Just let it go. This kid is likely going to graduate from HBS, at which point you guys will go "well, he probably got preferential treatment." Later on he'll make more money than you, at which point people on here will likely say "well, if it weren't for Bush and his cronies, this kid would be bagging groceries." Just get over it, holy crap. If this was a Clinton aide none of yall would be saying anything...and you know it.

no, we would because he still doesn't have a bachelor's degree. you can't even get into the university of phoenix MBA program without one.

Horsefeathers.

Tell it to the hundreds or thousands of kids who are on the borderline at Harvard and don't get in -- the next one in line because this guy got a slot.

I really don't think there are hundreds of thousands of borderline kids...but ok. I think its probably reasonable to ask that a person have a degree, but its Harvard, and I imagine they spot ability better than I. If we're gonna go with the "tell that to the ones that don't get accepted" argument, I'm sure there are some people on the short side of the affirmative action stick that have similar complaints.

i figured you'd bring that up. this is the good ol boy system at it's best. talk about preferential treatment.

I didn't know presidential aides were a recognized minority.

Amen.

At the end of the day, a private school can accept whomever they please. So who cares? I hope we've all realized at this point that you don't learn much from your 4 years at undergrad, and that a college degree does not equal intelligence. Connections and general intelligence are the things that get you through life successfully. So who cares how he came by his Harvard MBA.

And... I can hardly believe that if you were an under-represented minority that you wouldn't be using it for all its worth to get ahead in academics! How is having a political connection any different?

And any of us critcizing the Good Ol Boy network makes me LOL-- Greeks, no matter if you are NPC, NIC, NPHC, etc., are the quintessential hope and dream of realizing the Good Ol Boy network. Aren't we constantly lauding the benefits of alumni networking to get ahead in life?

If the advantage is there, take it. If you don't someone else will and you'll be left in the cold asserting your moral sense of right to an empty room.

I learned a lot more by checking 8-10 news sources a day and traveling across the country than I did in 4 years of undergrad.

I have to agree with you on that. Connections can get you almost everywhere in life. Particularly connections to a high level political figure. Fair or not, that's the way it is.

There's something we can agree on, but that doesn't have a thing to do with putting a politically connected person into one of the most respected graduate schools in the country without an undergraduate degree.

It isn't fair to other applicants and it dilutes the worth of the university and the degree.