ABC News 20/20 Report: White and Black Names
 

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2470131&page=1


Report shows people with "white" names are more likely to get call backs for job interviews.

Yeah this job discrimination based on name thing was uncovered over a decade ago.

It's become a story again over the last 5 or so years, especially adding the names of East Indians and Hispanics because of the New Immigration.

I've also read a study about those with names that are hard to pronounce are very unlikely to get callbacks, because the recruiter doesn't want to sound like an asshat pronouncing the person's name wrong.

ETA: This is why my husband has a family name of Vicente that we'd like to use for a son, but if we do, he'll be Vicente John (John being my father's name), so he can use "V. John Lastname" on his resume.

Isn't this old news?

Yeah this is way behind the curve - there's reputable academic research that proved this decades ago, and has been replicated successfully since.

The "asshat corollary" doesn't really fly as causation - some of the names used were as simple as Dexter Jackson in the initial studies. The original studies selected out these problems very effectively.

Just know that as far as school and governmental records are concerned, he will always be "Vicente J. Lastname." My brother and sister both have dealt with that all of their lives (well, my sister did until she married and dropped her first name), and my son is dealing with it now.

I was talking about a separate study. I can't find the link to it now, but it wasn't specifically about race-it was about names that were difficult to pronounce. You can be white, and have a name that people don't know how to pronounce, such as a guy I went to highschool with, who's parents name him Celly. I saw it, and assumed it was "Sel-ly", but it was really "Kelly" - but since his last name started with a C, his parents decided to be cute and spell "Kelly" with a "C".:rolleyes:

Kelly with a C.....pretty idiotic.

I wouldn't want to be a guy named Kelly these days...nor would I want to be a guy named Ashley.

Why is it that so many formerly guys-only names are slowly becoming women's names?

True story from when my now husband was looking for an apt.

xo_kathy calls rental company: Hi, my boyfriend saw the ad for the 1BR.
Rental company: OK, we'll have someone call him back. Name and number please.
xo_kathy: Orlando <super Latino last name>, 555-1234
Rental company: Ok, thanks.

3 days later after no call:
xo_kathy calls rental company: Hi, I saw the ad for the 1BR.
Rental company: OK, we'll have someone call you back. Name and number please.
xo_kathy: Kathy <super WASPy last name>, 555-1234
Rental company: Ok, thanks.

30 minutes later - Ring Ring!
xo_kathy: Hello?
Apt. super: Hi! I'm calling you back about the 1BR.

And I'm pretty educated on this stuff, but I guess didn't think it happened so much until I experienced it myself. So I guess it's good that it's in the news again. Maybe some people will learn something new...:rolleyes:

The list that they have suck! Where did they get that list of "black" names for girls and boys!!!! I've met caucasian people and other minorities with those names and what is so hard to pronounce about those names....

OMG people give me a break!!!!

I have never met a white guy with these names:

DeShawn
DeAndre
Marquis
Darnell
Terrell
Malik
Trevon
Tyrone
Willie
Dominique
Demetrius
Reginald
Jamal
Maurice
Jalen
Darius
Xavier
Terrance
Andre
Darryl

Or a White Girl with these:

Imani
Ebony
Shanice
Aaliyah
Precious
Nia
Deja
Diamond
Asia
Aliyah
Jada
Tierra
Tiara
Kiara
Jazmine
Jasmin
Jazmin
Jasmine
Alexus
Raven

I recall whites with these names or names very similar. However, 95% of the time people in this society with these names are not going to be white.

Regardless of what people think of these names, the issue of discrimination is a serious one. Whether it's discrimination by race or by a proxy for race (i.e. social class and names), it's tragic because people are making assumptions of you and influencing your life chances.

See my notes above. These are just quickly off the top of my head. If you ever head out of the south you would see all of these and then some as "white kid" names. :rolleyes:

To judge a person by their name is definitely discrimination and I knew someone had the same exact qualifications and educational experience as me, I don't know what I do if I wasn't chosen because of my name.

I can't believe people (especially recruiters or whomever) can't just ASK the person how to pronounce their name opposed to not giving them a call back. I know I see plenty of resumes come across my desk and if it is a name (first or last) that I'm not sure how to pronounce - I ASK the PERSON!

okay...my thoughts and opinion only...

The whole pronunciation thing is just one reason why they discriminate. It's often just used as an excuse to single out people for other reasons.

Macallan-

You know 20/20 is not the most "scientific" in studies with either ethnic group names...

And yes, upon first glance, you see names one in your ethnic purview would never name their child.

And I have to admit, there are names, I would barely consider from any of the lists.

As far as folks being discriminated against, ABC needs to take a look at itself and see who they have hired as writers and researchers. What is this, competition for CBS? When did purporting segregationist thoughts and activities become cool or popular?

Well, all I gotta say it is the "calm before the storm"...

Thanks, i've been to France and the rest of Europe quite a few times....i'm well aware there are white people there. I have also been to just about every part of this country and those names will never come across to me as "white people" names......I don't care where I am. You can roll your eyes all you want.

Its sad that this stuff still happens.

Your story reminds me of a commercial of a man that kept calling about an apartmnet, and he would sound like a different ethnicity over the phone. At one time he was hispanic, then african-american, then jewish, arab, etc...until finally he sounded "white" on the phone and he actually got an answer.

At first glance, i don't look like your typical Mexican. I'm a lot lighter skinned than the rest of my family...and I get treated differently. I don't even have a mexican last name. But once someone finds out i'm truly Mexican, their perception and their attitude changes.

But I don't understand the name thing...its just a name!! Dang man.

You can understand the lightskinned Mexican without a Mexican last name thing but you can't understand the name thing? Same isht, different toilet.

No...I understand the name thing. I just meant I don't understand how people can base things off of a name. To me, a name is just a name. It doesn't define who you are. And to think that someone could have a job withheld from them because their name was hard to pronounce or their name sounded "too black" or "too hispanic" is crazy.

Did I make more sense now :o

Consider it from a business standpoint...Which sounds better, "hey this is our new Director of ______, David Smith" or "hey, this is Sen'Derrick..." Just do your kids a favor and give them a reasonable name...or don't, but they may pay for your decision.

I could honestly care less about the person's name....its the work ethic and what they put into the job. David Smith could be a crappy worker, and Sen'Derrick could be a phenomenal asset to anyone's team. You don't know based on their name.

I think I have a reasonable name. Very easy to pronounce. Only 4 lettered name. And some folks still trip over themselves trying to pronounce it. I sure as hell do not want to be named "amanda" or "elizabeth" when every other person has that name, you know. No offense to women with those names --just pointing out that common around these parts.

I think there is something to be said for having a non-standard name, but naming your son Jamison or Payton is different from naming him Sen'Derrick or Latron. I'm not judging a person by their name, what I was saying is that businesses have to have their interests in mind when hiring...which will often lead to them hiring a person with a more traditional and professional name. Makes sense to me.

I legally went from Cindy to Cynthia a few years ago because I thought that Cindy was too cutesy and I wouldn't be taken as seriously had I kept my original name.

My parents claimed that they called me Cindy because it was easier for my non-English speaking relatives to pronounce.

There's a little-known book called Freakonomics that came out last year with an entire chapter devoted to this topic! Apparently, women more likely to saddle kids with certain names tend to be young, unmarried, non-college degree holders, poor, and they usually have a name like that themselves! Imagine that! :eek:

I probably wouldn't name my child any of those names, but I probably wouldn't name my kid any of those redneck stripper names that some Southerners hold so dear either.

Well, your skin color is just a skin color. Your last name is just a last name. ;)

If people can judge you based on those factors and change their tune when they realize that you are Mexican, you can understand why a "name isn't just a name." ;)

Based on white America's standards of tradition and professional. That's why this topic is salient. The decision makers in this country tend to be whites and particularly white males. There are smaller instances where racial and ethnic minorities are in hiring positions. Some of these people choose to discriminate by name, but this happens much less often and for very different types of jobs.

I'm not for naming children after cars or bottles of liquor. However many names that are known as "black" in North America have roots in Russian and other cultures. Not all of them are from the African continent or made-up. My names are Swahili and they also have translations in East Indian and other African languages. I love my names and names like mine. I'm not in a career field where discrimination by name is common (with the increase in women and various races and ethnicities in my field over the past 10-20 yrs, there are fewer older white males making all of the decisions).

However, I have had people wonder why my parents gave their children Swahili names (it was the 70's for goodness sake). Blacks have a harder time pronouncing my name than whites do but I have had whites who have tried to assign me nicknames. Some blacks have tried to assign me a nickname but I find that blacks generally understand how offensive it is to me to shorten my name into an "Americanized" version of it. Blacks' nicknames for me tend to still be very "ethnic" but just a shorter version of my name. Either way, I don't do assigned nicknames. Learn to pronounce my name or don't call on me at all.

For the record, people do this to themselves, too. It's not just parents.

I worked with two CNAs from Africa. Their African names were unpronouncable to most Americans, so they changed their names. One changed her name to "TutuGirl". The other changed his name to "Blamo". Not joking.

Never met anyone named Sen'Derrick. :rolleyes: A person given such a name might go by "Derrick," anyway.

For an increasingly diverse industrialized nation in this global economy, it is funny that "David Smith" still sounds better and creates images of competency and professionalism. When I call Microsoft's helpline I get connected to a support group overseas, I don't hear any David Smiths or talk to anyone who remotely SOUNDS LIKE a David Smith. I guess that's fine as long as the big time decisionmakers in the boardrooms are still David Smiths.

Idiots aside, this topic is not just about people being given funky names.

It's about the outcome, which is what discrimination is based on. Outcome and not intent (since we can't prove people's intents).

But you said you'd never "met" someone with those names. If you were in other areas long enough, you would probably meet people with those names. That might make you start to think of them as just names, not "black people" names.

Because Billy Joe is better?! My husband is the Head of HR for his company and his name is Orlando. He makes more money and has a better job than any of the people in my family named Bob, Bill, or Tom. It's never held him back. Maybe it's a NYC thing that people are just used to different sounding names...

Billy Joe, yeah, thats a common white name...

You only think it sounds better because its what you're accustomed to. I was guilty of the same thinking at a time.

When Secretary Rice first came to national prominence I though to myslelf, "what is Condoleeza- where the heck did her parents get that from?" However, now, I know its from the Italian meaning "with sweetness" and I don't even question it. To me, its now common to hear of a woman named "Condoleeza," and never would I say that it would sound better to say Secretary Connie Rice vice Secretary Condoleeza Rice.

Just like I don't think it "sounds better" to say Justice Thomas Marshall than it does to say Justice Thurgood Marshall or Stanley Robinson than Spotswood Robinson.

Now, I still won't advise anyone to name their child a made up name of the Shakalamarshandria sort, simply because as shinerbock is proof- some people can't get past it.

I worked with a white guy named Billy Joe. It was at Walmart, when I was in highschool....although he was a Walmart lifer.

Why is it perfectly acceptable for a person of east Asian descent to have a name like Jennifer (almost every Jen in my grad class in high school was Chinese) or Michael, while people of other ethnicities have to have a name that "reflects their culture" and that it's "wrong" not to do that?

I thought about this a lot when I was younger, too, but in the end I decided to keep my "nicknames." Both my first name and my middle name are a derivative of longer names. My dad dropped his middle name, and my mom has a longer first name that she never goes by (hence my pre-shortened names).

Good point-- I have seen a lot of ethnic minorities with Westernized nicknames at school, but their legal names are very different! But there's a difference when Ahn Ng is going by Ann, and Julie Chan is really just Julie!

I'm really surprised some of you can figure out how to turn on a computer.

"people like you"--Are you kidding? I simply said businesses will likely hire people with safe names becase customers and partners are more comfortable with them. Simply because someone decides to name their child Letravious doesn't mean the rest of the world needs to rush to accept it as normal.