Do We As African Americans Have A Culture?
 

Hello Sorors,
I wanted to get some of your opinions on this topic. Do you think that we as African Americans have a culture? The discussion was brought up in a social setting with my peers, and many of us had different views. My apologies if this subject has already been tackled.:)

I am going to edit your title if you don't mind.

Also, do you mean is there something specific to African Americans that defines us culturally?

I know Soror DST Chaos will chime in on this. :)

I would have to say...
 

No.

Hi Sorors and Sisterfriends. I do not post much, but enjoy the board when I have 2 secs free from my crazy job. Anywho...

No, I do not think African American's have much of a "cultural identity". Unfortunately most of what makes up our "cultural identity" is borrowed, learned, etc. from other cultures. The hodgepodge of food, speach, music, dance, dress that we have borrowed and learned has yet to be truly established as "our cultural identity", therefore just looks very "unauthentic" and "unoriginal" (ie. Swahili names, East African Cloth, West African jumping of the broom, Carribbean music etc.)

I recently attended the African American Day parade in NYC and was a bit uplifted that we do have a "cultural" identity somewhat, but most of it was very collegiate focused ie. Marching Bands, Sororities and Fraternities Strolled, Elected Officials" and didnt quite encompass all or most African American people.

Yes.

We are not defined by our common skin colors, hair textures, body types, and facial features alone.

People who don't think that Blacks/African Americans don't have a culture or cultural identity have not studied our history, American history, or observed very much of their social world. It's as clear as day. The failure to acknowledge and understand our culture is the real problem. So people who deny that we have a culture are a big part of the problem because they are contributing to the sense of anomie, confusion, and diluting that has ailed our communities for decades.

We are a mixed people. Our identity is both borrowed and original. We are not the only group of people who have taken things from our ancestors and more immediate backgrounds, made it our own and added to it.

There is no such thing as an "authentic" or "original" group of people. It all came from somewhere and it usually didn't come from the group who's most known for it.

What does this mean? Our "fun activities" aren't what constitute cultural identity. But even those "fun activities" have rich African Diasporic roots that include but are not limited to the traditions established in North America. So the foundation of what you witnessed at that parade can be found in most African American communities.

You rannnnnnnng? :)

I knew this would be right up your sociological alley. :D:cool:

I strongly disagree with this statement. In fact, I feel that it is the other way around. Other cultures tend to borrow / steal from us. Elvis Presley only became famous because he copied the moves and sounds of popular Black American R&B singers and gropus of his day.

There was a time in this country where anything associated with being a Black American was strongly banned. Our music was considered 'jungle-bunny' music, but young White kids still liked it. So, to make it 'okay' to listen to our music, Elvis was 'invented'. He was a 'safe' alternative for White kids of the 50's and 60's.

Please keep in mind that the African continent is composed of very diverse countries and ethnic gropus. When our ancestors were brought over here, any cultural identity that our ancsetors had was beaten out of us, literally and figuratively. So, over the centuries what ever cultural identity the ancestors had has been removed and diluted.

So, while its nice to have an African American Day parade, it is about as significant as having a European American Day parade. Europe is composed of many diverse cultures and languages that trying to combine them all in one neat package can become rather daunting.

Not sure if I agree
 

I would tend to disagree with you. There are definitely "original" people and original cultures in certain areas. The Native Americans are the "original" people of this hemisphere. Their cultural identity today is mixed as well because of the infusion of White America later, however they certainly have cultural aspects, religious, foods that are their own. Not borrowed. And even the cultural aspects that are borrowed in certain cultures were borrowed waaay more than 300 years ago..so it has been INFUSED as their culture..stolen or not. Many cultures have thousands of years of history.

I think its an unfortunate predicament of people who's identity has been stolen because of slavery, oppression etc.-therefore everything that makes up their identity is borrowed somewhat from SOOO many different cultures that the mix is often NOT embraced by the masses. And as I said earlier, this happened so recently (in a sociological sense) that it is not suprising to me that we do not have a firm "cultural" identity. I am sure in 500 years there will be one, that is formed of the borrowed culture, language, food, ideas, colors etc. but has become our own. right now, i dont think we are there yet.

This is exactly what I mean. I think because we have lost our identity through the diaspora, we as African Americans (today's black American in America) lack a "cultural" identity. I think it will take hundreds of years to pick, and choose, and participate, and borrow, and influence to finally have an "identity" of our own. I think music is the start...jazz, r&b, hip hop...but we have a ways to go to have an established "cultural identity" because we were robbed of it.

Basic definitions of culture used by any sociologist or anthropologist, though not 100% agreed upon, would never include a requirement of ancientness or "originality" (remember, ALL human life started in one part of the world and expanded outward). Saying that ours doesn't "count" as a culture yet because it is not established enough is to infer standards that are totally arbitrary. Talking about culture is only useful when understood as something people can attest to experiencing, and I can attest to experiencing Black culture, HBCU culture, hip-hop culture, American culture, New York City culture, etc. No scholar worth his or her salt is going to tell me I cannot.

Okay I see your point but I think you should define what *you* mean by cultural identity. Do you think Black Americans lack a cultural identity because we do not talk of a common motherland, as many Italian Americans would? Is it becase we don't speak a common language like many Hispanics? Is it because we are not known for a particular food dish from our country of origin like the French? Or have a particular type of script like the Japanese?

Why do you think what Black Americans have as an identity today does not constitute a cultural identity? Yes, we were robbed of our original cultural ties, but during the procsess of our ancestors being in this country we have created new ones. What's wrong with that? Jazz has been recognized as an original music form created in the US, by Black Americans.

Let me ask you this, when growing up, did you play with White dolls or Black ones? Who do you identify with more?

Like DSTChaos and laylo said, folks really need to KNOW their history before emphatically saying that those of Afrikan descent stuck in the wilderness of Amerikkklan have no such thing as a culture or Asili or a cultural identity with epistemology of utamawazo...

If anything, by genetic evidence alone, all other cultures borrowed ours...

I think that we do have a culture. Now if the question was do we have strong ties to our culture the answer would be no. Not everyone embraces their culture by attending cultural events on the matter, reading books, researching for yourself, or just sitting down with older members of your family. I think many people are too busy trying to blend into what America wants us to believe and we are loosing the closeness that was once our proudest attribute to boast. We used to be there for one another. We aren't anymore; unless it's to bring eachother down.

You say this because you don't know where the Native Americans derived some aspects of their culture from.

Both Native Americans and black Americans developed cultural tools through adaptation.

Black Americans had borrowed some aspects of our culture 200 years ago. Ever read about the activities of the slaves and free blacks during the Slave Era? These things have become infused as our culture...stolen or not. We would have thousands of years of history if we had not been sold from our native lands.


Well, in a sociological sense it wasn't that recent and we do have a firm cultural identity. What we are looking at is the remnants of slavery and oppression, in addition to present-day social constructs. However our identity as black people is not that of an oppressed people. We have so much history and tradition outside of being enslaved and oppressed that we sell ourselves short by denying it. What happened/s to us makes us stronger and adds to our identity--it doesn't take it away or is the sole definer of us.

No need to wait 500 years. It's here now so people need to stop denying us what other groups have been afforded.

You make a good point but I really get tired of people only thinking of music when they think of black people. We have rich intellectual, spiritual, and artistic roots that go along with all that musical creativity.

DSTChaos,

I have a question for you:

What is the sociological standpoint about referring to "black" people from the African diaspora in the United States?

I ask, because last I remember, there is no Republic of "Black" country/region...

And because people were enslaved from various countries/regions solely based on a "phenotypic variation", then that is why "African Americans" are referred to that way.

Just asking 'cuz I really don't know...

Geesh. You're buying into the pigeonholing and brainwashing.

Black folks were doing their own thing before they started dancing a jig. We sang slave "spirituals" and later focused on music for a reason. That reason wasn't because we didn't have anything else to fall back on.

I urge people to actually read up on this subject matter if you think that we're still struggling to find ourselves and that music is the place where "we's black folkses" need to begin.

I hope I'm answering the correct question:

Opinions differ on such matters but I find that sociologists who deal in race and ethnic relations tend not to use "African diaspora" because it mixes different groups of people whereas "African American/black" is a more distinct grouping. When sociologists say "AA/black" we understand we are talking about a people with a distinct history in this nation and with a distinct culture/cultural identity. The strength and traits of the cultural identity is the question, not whether or not there is one.

But when taking a more international perspective and talking about the common struggles of black and brown people all over, "African diaspora" is a common term. It is to say that we all deal with similar struggles--the slave ships just dropped us off at different continents (or didn't pick some folks up at all, they migrated generations ago).

Essentially, it is insulting to many sociologists in the racial and ethnic inequality area to assert that blacks/AA do not have a culture or cultural identity. We should focus on understanding it and strengthening it.

I'm glad black people came up with various music, regardless of whether its collaboration from other sources...granted, I hate the music put out by the black community today (most of it), but undoubtedly black culture has influenced music. If we didn't have the southern (mostly irish) and african roots of music, I wouldnt have very much to listen to.

Soror can you list some titles that would be helpful in this area for us to read? I would be interested in reading more. I took some sociology courses in undergrad but none that dealt specifically with US.

I am just an observer in this thread, although I wholeheartedly believe that African Americans/Blacks have a strong cultural identity in several facets.

From your entire post where I garnered this one statement, first, somebody has told you a pack of lies. I am not even beginning to joke...

You have "bought into" the concept that African Americans come from a "DEFICIENT" culture.

• Highest criminality rates
• Worst health outcomes
• Lowest academic acheivers
• etc.

What you are "witnessing" is what "they" want you to believe and what "they" want you to buy into... And you have "bought into it" "lock, stock and barrel". You have been "bamboozled", "jacked" and "punk'd".

You need to ANOINT yourself of YOUR history and REVEAL in it: The Good, The Bad and The Fugly... Then, you must not be ashamed of it.

Moreover, you ain't the representative for the "race"--nor as I... Why defend pathetic negroes? And especially, you, without thorough education--spell that Utamaaroho...

Most African Americans do not have a firm "cultural identity" because there has be a blatant extermination of the African (spell that Black, if you need a reference) family structure. The young people have no role models and barely know THEIR history. Moreover, young people have no self-esteem or self-confidence and the support systems absent.

Some of my Pan-Afrikanists friends would say, you need to be "Re-Afrikan Centered".

Thank you. I was looking for those answers. I do not know how sociologists define a distinct culture/cultural identity.

Research molecular genetic scientists define race based on Genus and species. There is only one race, Homo sapiens sapiens. Variations in the genetic code based on land masses/regions/pestilences are what make "people" look different from one another.

4MYPEOPLE I guess I have a seperate question? Do African Americans only have to have 1 culture? I believe we as a diaspora have many different cultures that are borrowed from other cultures, doesn't that in itself make a culture? How much time needs to past before a firm culture is established?

;)

This is not an exhaustive list b/c this is just from the "top of my head" so I encourage people to add to it:

1. Eduardo Bonilla-Silva (2001) White Supremacy and Racism
2. Cultural deficiency theory which believes that the "lower social status" of blacks and Hispanics signifies the cultural inferiority of these groups (who are disproportionately involved in criminality and poverty). This would mean that these groups actually HAVE a culture or practices that are common enough to be called a (deficient) "culture."
You can read more about this in Bonilla-Silva Racism Without Racists (2003) and Reed (1990) "The Underclass as Myth and Symbol." Radical America. 24: 21-40.
3. Any of John Hope Franklin's work, including "Ethnicity in American Life: The Historical Perspective." in John Hope Franklin, ed., Race and History: Selected Essays, 1938-1988.
4. Milton Gordon "Assimilation in America: Theory and Reality" Daedalus.
5. W.E.B. DuBois (1973) The Education of Black People: Ten Critiques, 1906-1960 Edited by Herbert Aptheker.
6. David Levering Lewis (1993). W.E.B. DuBois: Biography of a Race 1868-1919.

Pretty much the same as is defined in larger society. Distinct markers that are used to set a group apart from other groups. While there's no such thing as talking, acting, or dressing black we know what things are often attributed to black people. Both the negative and the positive. There's a thin line between stereotypes and valid generalizations.

That's very interesting. :) Laypersons are too far gone to have this raw conceptualization of humanity. The categorical distinctions that we've (created and) perpetuated for centuries have taken on lives of their own.

I know you did not direct this question to me, but I'll answer too. Yes, I do know that DSTCHAOS has already provided a great answer.


While there is no Republic of "Black", as I understand it, when the Spainards (?sp) saw Africans, they called us negro, which translates to 'black' in English.

btw, we (AA/Blacks) have been referred to by many colors. In my grandmother's day, they were 'colored'. When I was born, my parents and I were listed on my birth certificate as 'Negro'. I think referring to myself as African American is just a pc term. I don't disagree with it. I just think calling myself African American is about as specific as someone of known French heritage calling themselves European American. How will that French person differentiate himself from someone who has known German heritage. They are both Europeans, but they each have very different cultures and languages.

I would much rather know the specifc place of origin my ancestors came from in Africa and refer to myself as that. Africa has so many diverse and distinct cultures that to lump them all as one category I feel is kinda useless.

Essentially, white liberals and misinformed black people think it adds to "the struggle" to portray blacks as victims of oppression and a stolen identity. Then we are depicted as a lost and confused people who don't know which end to wipe. This makes "white supremacists" happy because they have long argued that we are a deficient people who are easily bamboozled because we lack a sense of identity and brain power. The equivalent of mules who can sing and dance but that's it. They also argued that we don't have a real identity so we will take on whatever identity is given to us without any protest. We need to know that these assertions are not true. If they were true, there wouldn't have been a movement to keep blacks from learning how to read and vote. Why would they care if musically talented mules can read and vote?

The truth of the matter is that we are an empowered people that needs to realize our qualities and power. We realize this on a small scale but fail to realize it on a larger scale. This doesn't mean that racism and discrimination will not exist or that blacks will completely overpower the status quo. It means that we will stop selling ourselves short and also stop allowing white liberals to sell us short.

Just want to make sure folks who don't know, will now pursue the reason why they must know...

That was my Presidential campaign speech. DSTChaos in 2066. I'll be 89 by then so I won't care about assassination attempts (if there hasn't been a nonwhite and nonmale President by then already).

This is a very informative thread. Being non-American, it's very interesting to hear the varying points of view on this topic. I don't have anything to contribute to the conversation as I don't believe that I'm equipped to speak on it. Carry on the dialogue, enlighten me.

I agree with both comments.

I think by using the term AA, it just satisfies a broad, generalized category. There is no distinction for each individual African nation where we could be from.

How many Hispanics do you know go around calling themselves Hispanic American. None. The term Hispanic generally refers to those people of Latin American descent from Central and South American countries and a few Carribean Islands. Hispanic is a government form 'catch-all' term for those people. If you don't believe me, the next time you meet a Puerto Rican, call him a Mexican and see what kind of response you get. Afterall, they are all Hispanic, right? (being sarcastic) I'm sure you will get a quick lecture on the differences between the two cultures and countries.

So yes, we (AA/Blacks) should be about the business of seeking out our ancestry so that we really know where we came from in Africa, and not just settle for the white liberal's self guilt-easing term of using AA.

My husband has a problem with using the term African American.

For me, the fact that we can be called something that ties us to a land long lost from our ancestors.

Really we can be called something else much more derogatory and an epithet.

I do not have a problem with being called Black. However, because reference to it can be lowercased and it only refers to a polymorphism in our genes and has no biological significance.

Being tied to a land actually does have a biological significance, at least I can think of relevancy of how individuals use to live and may be currently living, i.e. nomadic vs. stationary lifestyle. Arid regions vs. tropical. Etc.

Also, I do not think it is caucasian liberal guilt were all the reasons for the African American designation. Many civil rights leaders fought a lot the governmental system to get the AA designation.

Now, I have been seeing over last few years some resentment and I am wondering where in the world these illogical concepts are coming from?

I agree with you, but the land itself so diverse. I think to refer to the whole continent to indicate our heritage is not wrong, or bad, it is just too broad. I think it would be better / nice to know exactly where my ancestors came from. I'd much rather be known as a Nigerian American, Ghanan American, etc. as opposed to an African American. I would like my designation to be more specific so I could really embrace my cultural background.

How true. And we have......

Well, maybe we should be called the hypermelanist people. :p ;)


Right, it does. Again, that has been my whole point of knowing our exact origin in Africa as opposed to just knowing we came from that continent.

If I remember my Genetics 101 correctly, the reason some Blacks have sickle cell anemia (an alteration in the hemoglobin protein), or is a carrier for the trait is because the parasite that causes malaria resides in the blood cell. When the red blood cell 'sickles', this prevents the Plasmodium that causes malaria from being able to survive in the blood. The Plasmodium is prevalent in equatorial Africa, where some of our ancestors came from, but many Africans brought to this country were not from equatorial Africa. So, those Africans not from equatorial Africa may not have the sickle cell trait. You're right that coming from a land, or a region of a land does have biological significance.

I don't know. I personally don't resent it as much as I think it is used as a broad term to classify people of African heritage.

:) The Black vs. African American debate isn't important to me.

The important thing is understanding what being Black/African American entails, which is what this thread is about.

DSTChaos, you have studied these issues for much longer than me, so please feel free to disagree with any of my suggestions, but these are some books I've found to be good that are related to this topic (they're all from a more historical/cultural studies perspective):

The "Racial" Economy of Science. Editor: Sandra Harding. (AKA_Monet & others of you in science & tech fields, if you haven't read this, you might really like it.)
Critical Race Theory: The Cutting Edge. Editors: Richard Delgado & Jean Stefancic.
Critical White Studies. Editors: Richard Delgado & Jean Stefancic. (This one is pretty interesting; it's a collection of articles & essays looking at what "whiteness" means in the context of race theory.)
Racial Formations in the United States: From the 1960s to the 1990s. Authors: Michael Omi and Michael Winant.
White over Black: American Attitudes Toward the Negro, 1550-1812. Author: Winthrop D. Jordan. (The "classic" text.)
Race and Manifest Destiny: The Origins of American Racial Anglo-Saxonism. Author: Reginald Horsman.

Thanks Sorors for the titles! I might not read them all but I think it is valuable to have some titles that explore OUR culture.:)

There's really no right or wrong when giving readings lists on topics such as this. ;) These are excellent suggestions!!

Some of the citations that you and I listed speak directly to the cultural identity of blacks. Other citations are more historical and theoretical so people will have to be able to see the general point and apply it to the specific point (blacks' cultural identity).

It's also important to note that some of these articles and books can found on-line, in book reviews published in refereed journals, and/or in readers. This allows people to read up on this subject matter without devoting their career to reading all of these titles. :)

One reader that I suggest is Adalberto Aguirre, Jr. and David V. Baker. 1998. "Sources: Notable Selections in Race and Ethnicity." 2nd Edition. This reader is where excerpts from John Hope Franklin and Milton Gordon can be found.