Your thoughts on AI: discussion goes here.
 

If you get personal or rude, you get voted off the island. :cool:

O.K. I've kept quiet long enough. Mostly it's been amusing for me to read the back and forth banter that's been going on.

Frankly, I don't care much for A.I. I know a few that are the exception and even was initiated with one. I think that there are far too many women that see AI as their opportunity to OMG! I'm a sorority girl! I get to know ritual! :rolleyes: That's just stupid and wrong. To join a GLO as an AI, there should be perfectly valid reasons as to why she wants to join. Personally, the harder the requirements for AI, the better. If a woman really wants in, then she'll have no problem with the waiting. If the process is too easy, we may as well just start handing out flyers in the street for people to come AI into our GLO's.

I am for AI if the sorority approaches the prospect, and not the other way around. I am for AI members being treated as our sisters-in-full.

I am not for AI as recruitment until my Grand Council states otherwise.

I am not for an AI subforum until AI becomes Alumnae Recruitment.

NPC AI is not recruitment and should not be "pursued."

I agree 100% I think when it comes to AI we NPCers can take some lessons from the NPHCers. Many of the things we are saying about AI and how the organization should approach you or you should have a "bond" with a certain organization to me sounds exactly like how the D9 get their members. It is not a free for all for anyone who like my sister said "OMG! I'm a sorority girl! I get to know ritual!"

What is the point of these threads? I would have expected them from other people but not you.

To try to make it seem like moderators encourage people to have opinions and don't play favorites.

You know, the whole thing with playing favorites is really getting on my nerves.

I don't play favorites. I'm 43 freakin' years old and I don't play those kinds of games. I don't need to.

I moderate a forum as I've always done (without complaint, I might add) and I'm wrong.

I try to make a venue for open, opinionated discussion and it's condemed or determined to be some 'trick' to get folks to post just so I can delete the posts.

I'll put it like this -- there is no reason for the membership selection process to be discussed in a public internet forum. The AI process is membership selection. Therefore, it should not be discussed on a public internet forum.

I do think that NPC recruitment threads are a little different, because it's such a structured, formal process -- although, as always, discretion is key.

As all of you probably know, I am an AI. Some of you might even say that I "sorority shopped." I didn't know what I was supposed to do. Neither did PH. I went through round one of formal just like undergrads. I was told by a RC that if I was interested in anything sorority related, then I should contact alumnae groups myself. I don't think this should make me a bad person.

Especially when people are discussing which orgs readily accept AIs and which ones are harder to AI. I see those questions as very similar to asking which NPC sorority has lax rules on membership during recruitment. It's just not for public discussion.

I'm not in a sorority but I've been on GC for 4 years and this is my opinion on the AI subforum and AI itself:

In my opinion, AI was created as a way for NPC sororities to initiate worthy women who were either housemothers, members of an absorbed local or had very strong ties to the organization (i.e. unaffliated mother of daughters in the sorority). Since I've been here, I've seen women become AIs to a NPC sorority who in some cases, were approached by the organization to join, others who looked around first then AI'd a sorority. Because it was newer forum, the rules were still being formed and it seemed like anyone could join. Since it's the internet and you can cover up certain aspects of your personality and present a more polished face, some women joined organizations in AI and then, after being members, people realized that these women should have been weeded out before being invited to join. Also, there were women coming to GC who had no prior connections nor were never invited to consider AI trying to join through AI with no idea of what sorority they really wanted or the protocol. The AI forum became a complete mess.

Recently, some of the NPC sororities have made AI information less readily available because all that was going on. There are still women now who are joining through AI but its not like how it was in 2003-2004.

AI is an evolving process but I think for right now, AI as we know it on GC and this forum need to be closed. As long as this forum is here, there will be women who'll stumble on GC, see this forum and think that they can join as an alumna like you'd join a sorority in college. It breeds problems of false information going around, people giving bad advice, etc until ultimately, the PNAM ends up with either a broken heart or bitter because they wasted their time on something that probably only had a 0.5% chance of working.

AI belongs to the sororities and at the sororities' discretion. There should not be an AI forum on GC. If someone will become an AI, the sorority will come to them, they won't have to come to the sorority.

Wait, is there really a hypothetical sorority that is actively recruiting AIs? I've never heard of that.

I'm against women seeking AI just because they didn't "get" to join in college.

AGREED.

Okay Barbara, since you're publicly commenting about your moderating capabilities on this matter of AI, then I will post this here, rather than a PM.

Regardless of being pro/anti AI, as Valkyrie said earlier in this thread, Membership Selection is ritual. It should not be discussed on an internet board.

On the D9 boards, everytime someone asks about joining, they are immediately told not to ask & it pretty much ends there. THAT is good moderation.

How come this cannot be done on the AI board?

If someone posts that they are interested in AI, then there are plenty of ACTUAL AIs who can contact them PRIVATELY, if they wish. No connections should be set up publicly on this board. And CERTAINLY, men or even non-NPC members (no matter how much they have read), should not offer advice. This, IMHO, is part of the problem.

PNAI: "Hi. I am interested in AI. What should I do?"
MODbot: "AI = membership selection = ritual. It cannot be discussed on this board. I suggest you contact someone locally who can better advise you. Check out www.npcwomen.org or the individial sororities' websites for more information."

GCers who feel they HAVE to add to the thread: (see MODbot response.) Just like we all know how to respond to "what's the best sorority?" we should know how to respond to "how can I AI?"

GC who AI'd, in a PM: "I was an AI and I am willing to answer your questions.."


NOTHING should be posted publicly about membership selection.

This is exactly what I was trying to say in my previous post. Thank you guys for making it clear.

I an anti an AI sub forum, for all of the reasons KDOnline stated above.

That's exactly it. SOME people try to make all of us to be "anti AI" when in reality I don't know anyone who's totally against AI, but I think all of us are against the AI FORUM.

There's a distinction between being anti-forum and anti-AI.

As are most, if not all, NPC groups.

Agreed 100%

Excellent idea.

I agree. This forum has become a circus & should no longer exist.

If you are going to follow the D9 forum rules, then you shouold also get rid of the Recruitment forum too. Even there, undergrad membership questions are not welcomed either.

NPC Undergraduate recruitment IS sorority shopping and is acceptable as such in its current form. Our organizations' primary mission is collegiate programming.

Our reason for recommending the closing of an AI forum is that AI membership intake is more similiar in its quiet promotion as the D9 membership intake. There are a lot of NPC members who don't approve of AI at all, and the vast majority of sorority women don't even know what AI is. This isn't saying AI is a bad thing-- it is that our organizations have not promoted it heavily b/c they want to keep the membership intake of alumnae initiates low for quality control purposes. AI's don't have a new member period of testing the waters like an undergraduate. An AI, once initiated, isn't bound by regular obligations ensuring that we'll get our "money's worth" from investing in them as a member. They can easily fade away into the woodwork once initiated with no further obligations, unlike a collegian who must maintain membership requirements to retain her status.

AI isn't the same as undergraduate recruitment, just as alumnae membership is worlds away from collegiate membership.

ETA: To the current AI's on GC, I don't care if you sorority shopped or not. You're our sisters now and that's all that matters. I do have a problem with promoting the notion of sorority shopping or promoting the idea that sororities are holding open enrollment options for alumnae members. We simply don't do that and alumnae membership is not at the point where its programming would support such an influx of members. The internet makes it a lot harder for PNAI's b/c if you ARE sorority shopping, it's very easy to let that slip on the internet and make your experience IRL a lot harder.

I think the reason the undergrad rush questions are OK is because all the sororities are together, rushing, during formal rush. i.e. We see what each other is doing IRL, so it's not so bad on here.

Whereas you would never see the 4 NPHC groups all getting together in a room and having a round robin sort of thing. (At least I didn't think so)

Also, collegiate recruitment rules are pretty structured and black and white, and the 26 NPC sororities agree on them.

AI policies vary from sorority to sorority and even then it's reviewed on a case by case basis.

You're right. I cannot think of any school where this has happend, and frankly, never will. The closest that I can think of as a 'round robin' is during a general 'meet the greeks' session where each org will present to those who are interested. After that, each org has its own recruitment meetings / schedule separate and apart from the other groups.

Recruitment - all sororities are aware that PNMs are going to meet with every sorority on campus. It's accepted and expected a PNM will meet with more than one (even in some COB circumstances...)

AI - sororities involved are NOT aware PNAM may be meeting with other sororities.

EXCELLENT post. I completely agree.

I agree 100%. Thank you.

Aren't some aspects of AI public?
 

This whole AI debate kind of blows my mind. I haven't been reading GC long enought to get why it's such a big deal.

But I do want to point out something that strikes me as a faulty premise: the argument that the AI forum shouldn't exist because information about AI is membership selection, and therefore, ritual.

Recruitment isn't membership selections. Information about what PNM can do to seek information isn't membership selection. Only the whys and hows of members actually being chosen gets to the ritual level, as I see it.

If I can tell an 18 year old how to sign up for rush or COR, why couldn't I tell a 35 year old about AI?

That is the whole point. You as as a sorority woman can approach someone you know IRL about AI. We just don't want internet solicitiation of AI into our sororities.

Is it up to you?
 

If your group restricts information about AI to only those sorority members approach, then no one from your group should give info online.

But I think that some groups make AI info public. Why should those of you who don't want to give AI info. online get to restrict the communication of those who don't mind giving info. online?

Sometimes a person might want to get non-secret information online because they want to know what's available before they talk to someone in real life.

Let's say I had always wanted to be a member of the Order of the Eastern Star. I can see finding out online if there was even a remote possibility of being a member before I approached a local lodge or tried to develop my relationship with a local sponsor.

It's probably more comfortable for everyone involved. That doesn't mean I think you should recommend people you don't really know or sponsor people online. Only that it's okay to have an IA information forum.

1) Recruitment IS COMPLETELY about membership selection. Do you talk about what goes on in your rounds? Do you talk about WHY you did or did NOT choose someone?

2) If the 35 year-old wants to learn about AI because she never made it into a group in college and is now yearning for days of her youth, then AI should not be for her.
If the 35 year-old is a spectacular woman who would actually be an ASSET to a group, then you should be able to tell her about AI. But, see you would actually personally know enough about this woman for her character to suggest discussion of AI.
On the internet, you don't have enough information to REALLY make a good decision about someone's true personality and background. Would you really want to PERSONALLY VOUCH YOURSELF for someone you met online? That's my point.

I won't profess to know any of the answers to this issue, but I do remember that, before the AI forum was first created, all these posts were simply in the Alum Involvement forum, intermingled with the other Alumnae issues. I remember being glad when they created the sub-forum because then I didn't have to sift through all the AI stuff to read the other alum oriented threads. I do read the AI forum, but it's usually my last resort forum, after I've read everything else. My fear is that those posts will just end up in the Alum Involvement thread again.

I'm all for AI, if it happens according to my Fraternity's policies. We had a recent International President who had been an AI. To some degree, I figure that the women on GC who pursue AI in an inappropriate way will just end up self destructing their AI process in the long run. Since it is a rare thing and many International officers/volunteers peruse this board, it's likely they will be recognized and their process will be shut down quickly. Sort of like Darwinism...

ETA: Just as we sometimes warn a PNM in a Recruitment thread to use discretion, I think it's fine for us to warn that of PNAMs who are going too far too, but sometimes it is the tone in which it's said rather than what is said that starts the arguments.

AGDee, maybe your points about National policy and unfit applicants self destructing are why I don't see why having an AI forum as a problem. Telling people how to go about the process doesn't mean they'll get through the process.

Tippiechick, recruitment/ rush includes very public parties as well as private membership selection. I would happily tell people about the skits my group did or tell them about our house tour. I would happily tell them where to sign up for rush and what the general structure was. I would even tell them about how many girls get placed through formal recruitment and make all the data about choices and participation available. I would tell them all about my experience going through rush. None of that is membership selection; all of it is recruitment information. Ritual membership selection is a very important part of recruitment, and that I wouldn't share, but it's a limited part of recruitment and actually of very little practical use to anyone who didn't participate in it.

Information exists about AI that isn't membership selection. There's nothing wrong with that info being on the forum.

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...0&postcount=44

Many I/HQ websites have taken AI info off their websites because they feel that that kind of information is for members only. Why should this info be readily available on GC for PNAMs if our own I/HQs don't want that on their official websites?

OTW,

Are you sure that's WHY they took it off? I can see that having it on the National page could create problems with the flow of the process, rather than wanting to shut the public information down. If it's suppose to be a chapter driven process, but the info. is at the national level, PNAM are probably going to screw up and make the contacts at the National level.

Okay, though, for the groups who don't want public info out there, let them give the "AI for us is a secret process" answer and let the the other groups have the AI forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga (Post 1330623) Tippiechick, recruitment/ rush includes very public parties as well as private membership selection. None of that is membership selection; all of it is recruitment information. Ritual membership selection is a very important part of recruitment, and that I wouldn't share, but it's a limited part of recruitment and actually of very little practical use to anyone who didn't participate in it. Information exists about AI that isn't membership selection. There's nothing wrong with that info being on the forum.

Exactly. And, all of that membership information is available outside of GC. What people are coming on here to find out is how easy it is to get into groups and other information that should only be available to members, IMO.

But, as far as the membership selection, that should be left to the groups and their members. It should not be shared. IMO, when you begin to talk in depth about the process of selection and AI, you are sharing ritual info. (As all membership SELECTION info is considered ritual and is not to be discussed with non-members.)

And, what groups would you put into the category of not wanting the info to be out there?