Graduate Student and AI
 

I think someone may have responded to you re: this in another thread but I'll reiterate. :) There are three possibilities:

1) The school could have a rule, either the administration or the panhellenic, that grad students are not eligible for recruitment.

2) The sorority iteself, either nationally or locally, may not accept grad students.

3) Not likely, but its possible the sorority was using your status as a reason to let you down easy.

In terms of what to do--if you really want to "die on this hill" I would start with the school and make sure they do not have the rule. Ask a recuitment counselor or an administrator to assist you in determining local and national rules.

In terms of AI--read the READ THIS FIRST thread at the top of the AI forum. Discretion is your friend.

Best Wishes!

You could also email the sorority headquarters yourself to ask what their official policy is if you discover it's not a school rule.

...but what if she did find out that it's not a school rule? Isn't recruitment already over? How would that change her situation?

Well here's how I see it. Recruitment is already over, right? So until the next COB period/formal recruitment, you can't join an undergraduate chapter. If you're looking for next semester, then you might have a shot at another sorority whose official policies don't preclude graduate students from joining. The VP Recruitment for that sorority would/should know the national policy about graduate students being offered bids for HER sorority...the people at the Greek Life office don't always know or have the right information about specifics of each sorority on campus. My gut feeling is that you're not going to have much luck with this particulate undergraduate chapter you're looking into.

If you want to try AI, you've made the right step -- you were contacted by a member and you've contacted the appropriate channels for information. Now it's time to play the waiting game :) Get used to long delays between emails...if the other stories on this forum are any indication, you play long, slow games of communication tag in the AI process. Don't get discouraged, but don't get frustrated by long delays between emails. Sometimes no news is good news....but sometimes no news means "No"

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

There is a thread on here on which nationals let graduate students join, but I believe then it has to be ok with the local chapter and/or college panhellenic rules. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...

Yes its in her other thread here.

I'm going to be a little blunt here. Why do grad students want to join chapters full of undergrad women 18-22 years old? I guess if a woman was a young grad student (22 or 23) I could understand some of the appeal, but older than that I just don't get it. A woman that's in her mid-late 20s and has already done the whole college thing wouldn't have very much in common with a pledge class of 18-year-olds. Chapters select women they think would fit in well with the group, and admittedly, grad students probably don't fit in.

Did she state her age?

I think we can safely assume that she's not Doogie Howser.

This is your best hope for a good fit. If it doesn't go anywhere with the Alumnae chapter I'd recommend moving on. Good luck!

Not all pledge classes are solely composed of 18 year old freshmen. One of the women on here was a chapter founder at I believe age 27 or so.

Please let's put to bed the notion that sorority pledge = 18 year old freshman. On some campuses that may be true, but on others most emphatically NOT.

At any rate, to suggest AI to the OP when what she wants is active membership in a collegiate chapter is most definitely NOT cool. It sounds like the chapter president was just trying to get the OP out of her hair and push her onto the alumnae chapter.

I don't understand what the big deal is about the word "grad student." Seniors go through recruitment all the time and nobody makes a fuss about it. There's a guy here in my entering law school class who just graduated from college in May and he is 20! A lot of grad students go straight from college, so there's a chance some of them could be 20 as well. What's wrong with a 20-year-old going through recruitment?

Thats not what it sounded like to me. It would be easier to push the OP off on another organization that may take grad students, but instead she liked her enough to want her in her own organization, even if only through AI.

Amen to that! There are also many colleges that have accelerated graduate degree programs to where you get your Bachelor and Masters degree on the same day that you graduate. Also, many colleges have programs for the gifted and talented and they get out of high school early (way earlier than 16), complete college early, and then start graduate school. I think it's unfair to assume the poster's age. Especially with so many undergrads on the 5 and 6-year plan.

I went to college with some of the youngest college students in America...that tested out of their Freshman year and STARTED their Sophomore year when they were 11 and 12 years old.

I agree; that's how it sounded to me, too.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a graduate student going through recruitment (it is a little weird if you're like 35 or if you're married with kids) as long as she knows that her status is going to close some doors. The only thing I think is "bad" about a graduate student going through recruitment is I would ask myself "How much time is this woman going to really be able to devote to my organization?" If you're doing 50+ hours a week of teaching assistantships, research, classes...well, I'm going to seriously question whether or not you'll be able to devote extra hours to the sorority during your new member period.

It's not about the age, really, it's about my ideas -- true or not -- on what kind of lifestyle a graduate student leads. If a grad student finds a sorority that knows her situation and is willing to extend a bid, then I think that's amazing. But I also completely understand why certain sororities ban graduate students from joining undergraduate chapters.

the face of the college student today, at many schools, is changing. On some campuses, non-traditional aged students are arriving in droves. If we are going to survive, I think we need to at least be open to considering older students.

It really is something that needs to be considered on a case by case basis.

I agree completely. I can't even fathom having sorority responsibilities on top of grad school obligations. And that's from an active's POV. It would be even harder from a new member's POV (I would think).

Plus, and this is based on my grad school experience, the amount of time you'll spend with your grad school classmates is impossible to comprehend if you haven't been there. It's like its own sorority/fraternity; you sure don't need to go find another one!

You'll be much more successful in your studies if you develop friendships with your classmates instead of trying to cultivate relationships outside your discipline. And, profs know when their grad students are having program-related conversations outside of class. You'll leave grad school with much stronger prof recommendations and relationships if you engage regularly in those types of conversations. And not all of those conversations have to happen in an academic setting. Heck, I think some of my most productive grad school moments were had at the bar where our department gathered regularly. They were the most fun moments, too!

While I love my sisters, I didn't miss having a chapter around me while I was in grad school. If anything, I think they would've distracted me from what I was there to do. But, I'm easily distracted. :p

I have ZERO interest in developing friendships with the people in my program. There's only two people I would consider being friends with. I have nothing in common with my classmates, with the exception of those two I mentioned. Over half of them are near my mother's age. Most of the younger folks are married or have kids and work full time. I have a lot more in common with people in my chapter and friends I met at church and part-time jobs (which were made prior to grad school).

I have also found that grad students are not really into "making friends." I'm working on my second graduate degree, and in both experiences, the relationships I form in school are more like the professional relationships you would make with fellow employees. You are friendly with one another and you discuss your work (academic interests), but you don't "hang out" on the weekends or call to cry about your love life.

I joined Beta Sigma Phi during my second year of my masters degree because I was looking for a different kind of friendship, a sisterhood. Of course, I know that Beta Sigma Phi is a lot different than NPC membership, so maybe that it is why it was such a perfect fit. I was able to build strong friendships, make memories, be part of a great tradition, but my chapter didn't require the huge time commitment that an NPC chapter would.

To the original poster, if the chapter itself suggested AI, then I think I would at least follow up. It might be an interesting opportunity.

Exactly. My classmates are very friendly. An example, we all introduce ourselves before our class starts, at the beginning of each semester. That would've NEVER happened in undergrad. However, the relationships are very "surface". Conversations don't really extend beyond "How's the weather?". I find a lot of them to be hyper professional. The few us who aren't, stick out like a sore thumb (and are fun to have around these 6 hour classes). There's a lot of :eek: faces whenever they share their experiences in class. I want to open up, but I'm not sure that's a good idea, lol.

I should've prefaced my post with a disclaimer. I know all graduate programs are different. And, all universities are different, so even the same program of study would have a different atmosphere at a different school.

My grad school classmates were very friendly, without being hyper professional. We actually did our fair share of crying to each other about our love lives, frustrations with profs, anxieties about success, etc... Truly, the friendships I had in grad school were much deeper than the majority of the ones I had as an undergrad.

But like I said, every program and school is different. The OP might be studying something that doesn't lend itself to developing friendships outside of class. Or the university might not foster such an atmosphere. All I can base my opinion on is my experience. And all I'm saying is that I would've found it extremely difficult to be a new member of a sorority while I was in grad school. And not only would I have found that difficult, but I also would've missed out on a lot of other (extremely valuable) relationships.

:) No need to preface...we all know that we each write from a different prospective. Just wanted to give mine. Perhaps the original poster is in one of those situations that leads her to desire stronger friendships outside of her program.

What I was really trying to get at with my question about grad students joining NPC collegiate chapters is that grad students are at a different stage in their life than the typical undergrad student. Some grad students go right from undergrad to grad school (which is why I said I could understand some of the appeal if the woman in question is 22-23) but many grad students have been out of school for a couple years or more before enrolling. It is not just about age, but experience also.

We could assume questions like this come from a "Doogie Houser" (to quote someone above)-like child prodigy, or we can assume she went through college at the same age most young adults in this country do.
I realize there are exceptions to the "typical" pledge class of 18 year olds, but I do believe that in most cases *most* (not necessarily all) new member classes are freshmen and sophomores. Yes, juniors and seniors rush, too, but not in the large numbers that freshmen do.

Anyway, my point is I still don't "get" why a woman, say, 25, would want to hang out all the time - re-living the college years, if you will - with women and men that in some cases would be seven years younger than her. They won't be able to empathize with her grad school experience, and they may not be looking for someone older and wiser to give them advice.

I realize the OP may indeed be 22 or 23 years old and so this may not apply to her situation. I was throwing this question out there because I've seen it pop up a lot on the boards lately.

Why would someone that age.........
 

Okay I was in the same boat though I was 40. I did not necessarily want to join the Collegiate Chapter, though I did want to be part of the Alumnae Chapter. I talked with two of the Sororities whose purpose, goals and philathropic projects interested me. After a year, they stopped speaking to me. It's very sad that there is nothing out there for those of us who would enjoy the networking aspect of a Sorority. Honor Socities are a nice thing to belong to, but they don't have the same feel as the sisterhood of a sorority has. We are left with the choice of joining Beta Sigma Phi if we want to get involved or help mentor those who are just starting the adventure of Higher Education.
Thanks for listening
Michele Kriske
.....who is still looking for an Alumnae Chapter to join

AI is completely different than collegiate membership. The OP was asking about joining a collegiate chapter.

I understand that, and left a part of what I wrote out, the part that to be part of the Alumnae Chapter, often you have to pledge the Collegiate Chapter first, at least for UCLA and LMU. This is what I was told, and I should have included it above
Michele Kriske

Actually, that depends on the organization. That is what Alumnae Initiation is-joining an Alumnae chapter without having joined the collegiate chapter.

Hmm...I think you may be a little confused. If an organization does let graduate students join collegiate chapters, but offers AI (and not all do), it is probably handled through an alumnae chapter, not collegiate. In order to "join" an alumnae chapter you need to be initiated, whether that's through collegiate or alumnae initiation.

I don't know if that helps at all of if I've just confused you more :o Can anyone else explain it more clearly?

Actually, there are over 20 community sororities, not just Beta Sigma Phi. That's almost as many community sororities as there are NPC sororities, with as many opportunities to find the right fit. So do some research, and look at all of your options, instead of just focusing on AI or Beta as your only options.

You know, maybe I am weird , but I am 31 and LOVE the time I get to spend with the actives in the chapter I advise. Yes, I know being an advisor is 'different' but not really--I don't hang out with them (because lord knows I couldn't keep up) but I do sorority things with them, like attend meetings, go to special events, do philanthropy projects etc. I do not view my involvement as trying to relive my college days...and I suspect that older women who join collegiate chapters really aren't trying to do that either. Just some food for thought.

Thank you for the link, it did help some, though I had already visited most of the ones listed.
Thanks again
MK

So are you saying that he entire alumnae chapter came from the same collegiate chapter? I only know for sure about my own organization, but I assume all the NPCs work this way too - an alumnae chapter is for any alumnae who live in a certain geopgraphical area. It makes no difference where you went to college as long as you initiated into XYZ. Are you saying that an individual NPC sorority has a UCLA alumnae chapter just for UCLA grads and a LMU alumnae chapter just for LMU grads? Strange. Usually (OK, always, as far as I know) there is an alumnae chapter for, say, Orange County, or Beverly Hills, or something like that, not for a collegiate chapter.

I believe 99.9999% of NPC alumnae organizations work this way, but I am aware of an alumnae chapter for alumnae of a specific collegiate chapter only. I want to say it was a KD chapter....? I can't recall. But yes, they do exist.

Phi Mu and Delta Zeta have "chapter organizations" which are only composed of alums of a specific collegiate chapter. If I'm not mistaken, you can be in one of these and a geographically based alum chapter at the same time.

And in a densely populated area like LA - I wouldn't be a bit surprised if there were multiple alumnae chapters that even though they are geographically based on paper, have membership mainly or solely from one collegiate chapter. If a lot of your collegiate sisters are in the same alum chapter, you'll probably end up in it too, even if it's across town. It really isn't supposed to happen that way, but until the HQs start saying "if your zip code is 90210 you must be in so and so alum chapter" it's going to happen.

I don't know if this is true or not, I have been trying to find a Sorority for about 10 years now. When I was working on my Bachelor's the Sororities were mainly for minoritygroups, when I worked on my first master's I was told I was too old to join, and in the past two years, while working on my second Master's I have had no luck making contact with groups. I actually went to an event with one Alumnae Group and worked on their Philathropic Project for the year, but have not heard anything about membership. A second group was in contact with me and then stopped answering my letters, and a third is much the same. When I have visited the various groups and looked at their alumnae pages, they refer back to my involvement in a collegiate chapter. I assumed for a long time that I had to have been a collegiate member in order to join and just found out 4 monthes ago that I didn't. To answer your question, I have always been referred to groups through their home schools, but I'm still looking. I'm sure I don't understand everything involved so please be patient with me. I cannot be the only 40 year old out there who wants to join and Alumnae Chapter. Can I?

You don't join an alumnae chapter. You join a national/international organization and are sponsored by an alumna or an alumnae chapter to do it. Then once you are initiated you of course are likely to be active in an alumnae chapter.

Wow...
 

WOW, I'm shocked how many responses this has gotten already. Thanks for your imput and the positive PMs :) I wanted to reply to a lot of your comments, but I just picked a couple. Again, this is going to be a long post:o.

Also, I emailed the alumna that the president of ABC mentioned, but I haven't heard back from her, yet. Hopefully I will here back soon, but I am definately aware of the waiting period. I will update if or when I hear back...


I wrote a joint email to the two employees at the OSFA that gave me conflicting answers and the Panhellenic VP of Recruitment hoping to get a decision that they all agree on....just less blunt.



Well, it wouldn't for this semester. Recruitment at my school only happens in the spring (only a couple have events in the fall). What I'm hoping happens is that the Office of Fraternity and Sorority Affairs and/or the Panhellenic Council come to an official decision...which is hopefully that graduate students can participate in formal rush, even if there is only a possibility of joining a couple.

Hahahaha!! No, but close. I still get carded at rated R movies sometimes:mad:! I just graduated from college...I'm 23. I know I'm old, but I'm not old, yet.


That's a really good and very valid point. Joining a sorority is a huge commitment that takes up a lot of time...and the rest of your life :) For me, personally, I have two comments for that. The first is that I know what I'd be getting into- I'm very much aware of the time and energy commitment. I am awesome at time management and, while I know it would be very difficult, REALLY, REALLY want to do this.

Amen to that! :D

I'm glad I make your age cut off! I understand where you are comming from, though. An interesting story...there was a local co-ed social frat at my college. One year a professor was given a bid to pledge...and his son was the pledgemaster. I can't imagine the hell he went through!

This is the impression that I got from everyone. I think that if they were allowed to extend me an invitation to joing they would have. I could be wrong, but that is my gut feeling. Why would they even bother contacting me at all if they didn't like me?