Confusing question?
 

This question has been bugging my mind a bit. Do you call those Honor Societies that use greek letter greek societies? Those societies also have their own rituals and such, but I assume it doesn't fall under the general type of frats/sororities.

And what was the reason for honor societies to use greek letters as well? :confused:

I dunno. I also wonder what the reason was for band groups and service organizations to fall under Greek letter organizations. Neither fall under general fraternity or sorority types to me.

The same can be said about social fraternities and sororities as well.

Of course they aren't just "general" fraternities/sororities. Groups such as KKPsi and TBS (band) and GSS, APhiO, and OPhiA (service) serve specific purposes in addition to being fraternities and sororities. They aren't intended to be general purpose, and as far as I've seen, none of us have any desire to be. It isn't the point of our organizations.

I don't know anything about honor societies; none exists for my major so I never joined one. However, from my (limited) observations of these groups on my campus, they did not seem to be as involved as the fraternities and sororities I've mentioned above. IE, they would hold chapter meetings and perhaps host a few events per year related to whatever they were an honor society of, but nothing beyond that. Whereas other groups (KKPsi, TBS, GSS, APhiO, OPhiA, AKPsi (business), AOE (engineering sorority), etc.) have chosen to function as full-fledged fraternities and sororities for their specific areas, holding a full schedule of events relating to their purposes, placing emphasis on ritual, adding in social events, etc.

I don't know that there is a set rule as to what kinds of non-social groups tend this way and which tend the other, but it does seem that service and band groups have a propensity for the one way. Nothing wrong with that :D

On my campus, Theta Tau and Alpha Omega Epsilon are professional Greek orgs, but they socialize with the social Greeks also. They still have parties and mixers with the others, and have formals and everything else. The difference is that you have to be engineering/science majors to join.

Professional Frats/Sors. are resume builders. The only people that take them seriously are those that can't get a bid to a real greek org. or use them as a way to further their resume/student gov't bid.

That is my general feeling as well. But in many cases they are also people who want to be part of a group but do not have an interest in social fraternities, or the work involved.

There is a strange irony about all this at U. Texas since even though non-Greeks seem to loathe us, every single type of organization you can imagine makes a point of having Greek letters.

So they hate us, yet at the same time are desperate to seem as much like us as possible.

Every campus has some organizations that are legitimate nationwide fraternities of a non-social type- Alpha Phi Omega for example, philanthropy driven.

But at U. Texas just about every major has a greek-lettered professional organization or two, plus all kinds of spirits groups and there is even a church-related one that call themselves the "eternity fraternity" (I forget the name, but Omega is in there somewhere- hence the 'eternity'.) I have never seen anything like this to such a degree at any other school.

Beta Kappa is a business fraternity here (open to women as well I believe) and at one point they actually got their hands on a house in West Campus (the old Theta Xi house next to ADPi) and tried to basically function as a social fraternity (only guys could live in the house if I remember right.) When I was in West Campus last week I saw an Acacia sign out, so it appears that effort failed.

We also have groups like Tejas House- who own a nice historical home in West Campus- who do not have greek letters and advertise themselves as a place for people who don't like Greeks to join up, but in form it is just a bunch of people living together having the social side of Greek life (well- they think so), but none of the ritual or serious commitment. And yes, there are "trial periods" for admission to many of these groups (not sure about Tejas House in particular.) So they are doing just the things they seem to hate Greeks for doing, but somehow think they have a better way. They are essentially local fraternities that chose to not have greek letters.

In any event, U. Texas is full of these kinds of groups and regardless of their stated purpose they have, in some cases and to varying degrees, houses or other off-campus meeting sites, socials, winter and spring formals, and other party-oriented purposes. I can understand a philanthropy-based greek organization having parties and get-togethers, but a full blown Winter Formal at a hotel complete with T-shirts and a sit-down dinner? What better purposes could those funds have been used for? (no names, but I am referring to a specific organization here- not making up a hypothetical example.)

Fine by me, and many surely have found the right place for themselves in these groups- but the desire to be like real GLOs is unmistakable, and a testament to the fact Coramoor is right with regards to a significant portion of the membership.

So I was seraching for the origin for Greek socirties on Wikipedia and found this lengthy article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fratern...and_sororities

I was surprised to learn that the first group that used Greek letters was Phi Beta Kappa, which is a honor society for liberal arts and science students. It was founded in Dec 5, 1976.

True, but that organization was not founded in the spirit of the social GLOs that exist today.

Consider too there are both literal and working definitions here.

In my above post I made reference to "real GLOs"- and I should clarify that to mean GLOs in the sense that most people think of them. Or to put it another way, I expect the vast majority of people coming to Greek Chat are here to talk about NPC, IFC, NPHC and other national or local social fraternities (which term includes sororities.)

History will show that we were not the first to adopt Greek letters, but in the modern world, a discussion about Greeks at colleges will inevitably bring to mind the social organizations.

NPC/IFC/NPHC doesn't own greek letter titles. Anyone can call their organization a fraternity or sorority.

True- I was just trying to summarize the groups I was referring to in the shortest space possible is all. I think I actually missed one of the national umbrella groups- I can't keep track of all that.

I wasn't harping on you. I just find the topic silly. Who cares?

I think you mean "1776", not 1976. :)

Explain that reasoning to me.

hehe, thanks :p apparently 1776 is too far away from me :D

As far as I'm aware of honor societies, they barely, or I could say never, call their members, greeks. They just call them members, because they understood what the word "Greeks" is exclusively for...I think that's just on my campus though.

I know plenty of people who are both social greeks and in professional/honor/other GLO's. The vice president of service in APhiO at my school is also the vice president of her local sorority Alpha Chi Lambda. I also have a friend who is in Phi Beta Kappa (honor), APhiO (service), and Kappa Delta Pi (professional-education)

Although the focus of professional societies is definitely more closely aligned with resume building, that doesn't mean that the only people that take them seriously are ones that can't get a bid to a """"real""" greek org (what a loaded term!).

Phi Beta Kappa could be called a resume building society, but it works in a very real way. At my school, at least, there are very strict standards for membership, a very high GPA cutoff (3.75), certain class requirements (Calculus I [not Calculus for life or an 'easy' Calc class], a natural science lab, etc.) Only the top 10% of people eligible by THESE standards get invited to apply and then even applying doesn't guarantee a bid. Having Phi Beta Kappa on a resume is a huge honor and honestly gives a huge edge in many job applications. Plenty of people who couldn't care less about """real""" greek orgs (but could get in) take Phi Beta Kappa and applications to it very seriously. So do plenty of people who are already in those """real""" greek orgs and who are in other, less """real""" ones as well.

This thread is going to hell in

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Oh, wait. I'm signing on late... This thread went to hell the minute it was posted.

WHO CARES if you're a social Greek or an honors society Greek? I take back my former statement in the Rush Forum... THERE IS A SUCH THING AS A STUPID QUESTION.

Go play outside. It's a nice day.

At many schools I don't think it matters much at all. With or without greek letters, there are all kinds of student organizations out there for people that offer many things that are so diverse as to be unmeasurable against a particular "yardstick" about what any organization should be.

The reason I posted is that at U. Texas we have a very unusual phenomenon whereby significant numbers of the various honors, school major, spirit, philanthropy and cultural student groups adopt greek letters and attempt to have some sort of existence that reflects certain facets of "Greek Life" at U. Texas.

This is especially ironic since so much of the GDI population can't stand us- but yet are dying to get themselves aligned with any group that has greek letters. I like it. Imitation is, after all, the sincerest form of flattery.

In the big picture, I think you make a fair point adpiucf, but my example is there to show that there are a lot of preconceived notions out there about what a "GLO" really is. At U. Texas, it seems clear that many create GLOs that seek to imitate what most of us think of us as "Greek Life"- where, in fact- a GLO is quite simply a group of 2+ people that decides to put greek letters on the front door.

Greek letters on the front door don't really matter for many of these groups since there is little or no ritual or significant meaning behind the choices as is the case for the social groups (of which many are merely letters that are abbreviations of a major or just a random slogan), but clearly over the years those organizations have decided there is sufficient value in the association of their organizations with greek letters for their face value.

PS- Forgive please the exploration of minutia. Mental mastur-you-know-what is a favorite exercise of mine :)

Off Topic, but I was born and raised in Austin and I've never heard anyone call it U. Texas before.:confused:

Does a fraternity or sorority NEED to have Greek letters?

Yes and No!

Accacia and Farm House are considered Greek Social Fraternitys now.

Cannot remember any Sororitys.

And Acacia, FarmHouse along with Triangle are all members of the NIC/IFC.

Ceres International Women's Fraternity.

They use Greek letters, therefore they are Greek letter societies. Pretty simple.

Remembering that there are very few rules that can be applied across the board with regard to fraternities and sororities, as a rule of thumb:

-- a "Greek letter organization" is simply an organization that draws its name from a combination of Greek letters. Because most fraternities and sororities fit this description, "GLO" is sometimes used as shorthand for "fraternity or sorority."

-- a "general" fraternity or sorority is one that draws its members generally from the student body, without regard to major or area of study, and that exists primarily to further the social (in the broadest sense) life of members. The oldest of these evolved from groups like Phi Beta Kappa and early literary societies. Most NIC and NPC groups will fit this description.

Because they exist primarily to further the social life of members, "general" fraternities and sororities are sometimes called "social" fraternities and sororities, but it is not always accurate to use the terms interchangeably. There are social fraternities and sororities -- for example, Triangle, Theta Tau, FarmHouse, Alpha Gamma Rho, Ceres, and my own fraternity -- that cater to students in specific fields or areas of study or interests rather than to the general student population, but that exist primaily for social (again, in the broadest sense) rather than professional purposes. Often times, the oldest of these "non-general socials" have their roots in specialized institutions (for example, Ag or technical schools, conservatories) where the "general" fraternities, which centered in liberal arts institutions, were not likely to come. Likewise, groups that have a primary focus of multiculturalism, such as Theta Nu Xi, or some groups that cater to persons of a particular enthnic heritage, such as Latino or American Indian fraternities and sororities, could be "social" but not "general." So, while all "general" fraternities and sororities are "social," not all "social" fraternities and sororities are "general."

Most, but not all, general and social fraternities and sororities employ secret rituals and use exoteric and esoteric symbolism, and most, but not all, are single-sex.

-- A professional fraternity is one that draws its members from a particular discipline or field of study and that exists to further the professional development of its members and/or to further the profession itself. Many if not most will have some sort of ritual. By federal law, professional fraternities should be co-ed.

-- Likewise, a service fraternity or sorority exists primarily to develop the character of members and for public service. This description can include groups like Alpha Phi Omega, as well as the Divine 9, who, in my experience at least, describe themselves as "service" fraternities and sororities.

-- An honor society is a group that exists simply to honor students or faculty for achievement in a specific field of study, aspect of campus life or the like. Some private ritual is possible, although probably not on the scale as one would typically find in general/social fraternities and sororities.

I think people do so on here so no one thinks they're talking about University of Tennessee or University of Toronto. I doubt that same person would call it "U Texas" IRL.

I like this post. Can we put this under the FAQ or something?

I call "honor societies" exactly what they call themselves--"honor societies." I am a member of some honor societies and the members would be highly pissed if I ever referred to them as fraternities.

However I have been a member of professional fraternities who refer to themselves as such. So, it's fine to call them fraternities as long as we don't treat them like the social organizations. For instance, when I became of these professional fraternities, their rituals and consitutions were available for public consumption and our affiliations were only literally and figuratively for a "lifetime" if we decided to continue paying dues.