Underage vs DUI; Emory's dilemma
 

Using their own funds, the Student Govt. at Emory sponsored a bus to two off-campus bar areas, with the last bus returning to campus at 2:00 or 3:00 a.m. They wanted to make students safer, and reduce DUI. Emory has several near-by restautants serving alcohol, but no bars open late.

This week, the school has ordered this stopped, claiming it was allowing underage students access to alcohol.

Two good motives, in conflict.

Is this happening elsewhere?

Sounds like a bad move by Emory. Frankly, underage students have access to alcohol with or without a bus taking them to it.

Yes, that's like not offering condoms at the student health center... because then students will be having TEH SEX!!!111!!!!1

I am guessing this might be an insurance issue.

It also has the appearance of facilitating illegal behavior. Personally I think it is a great idea to do this, but I can see the other side.

Like adpiucf said, it is not that much different than offering condoms at the student health center.

The mentality is the same- "they are going to do it anyway, so let's make it as safe as possible", but the difference is that sex between college students is not illegal.

If a parent found out their kid was having sex and using college-provided condoms, not much they could do. But if they find out their kid is drinking and the student union is covering transportation- it is a much different situation.

At Emory do the buses take students to and from the bars, or do they only take people from the bars to campus? The answer to that question is critical to speculating as to why the bussing was stopped.

UI used to have a program called "Vandal Taxi" that ran on weekend nights to give students rides. It wasn't completely full of drunk people, as we have no other bus service and people would ride it home from a friend's house or the movie theatre on the other side of town. I always liked riding it because it was warm (it can get below 0 here), safe (they had a bus monitor as well as a driver), and rather reliable.

One of the policies was that you could only ride it once, so it wouldn't be used for party hopping. It ran for two years when I was a student and I really loved the program because I knew if I couldn't reach my ride, I wanted to go home early, or my friends and I lived in different parts of town we'd all get home safe. A huge issue was funding, and the UI Parents Association gave money (and my parents gave because they thought it was a great idea) to keep it running, but of course people said it promoted drinking.

Iowa State has the drunk bus, I mean Moonlight Express, weekend bus service run by the campus/city bus system. On Fridays and Saturdays between 10:30 pm and 3:00 am, you can call the bus number and have them pick you up and drop you off at specific locations around Ames. I believe some of the tuition went towards the campus bus system, and in part to this service. Here's more info: Moonlight Express.

I always thought it was a great service (and it was fun to ride--unless someone had just upchucked all the jagerbombs they did at the previous party. Then, not so fun).

I don't understand -- why do they think it will be giving underage students access to alcohol? The bus is not taking students to house parties, but areas with restaurants/bars. If the underage students are served alcohol at those establishments, that's a problem with the restaurants, not the school.

It's not fair for the people who are old enough to drink. Closing the bus system is not the best way to go about stopping underage drinking.

(PS: I agree with the condom analogy)

Is there a huge desert around Emory?

It seems they have their heads in sand somewhere!:eek:

They do not seem to realize that what was taken away can become a disastor in the long run.

As was said, kids will get alcohol but supposedly not at leagal bars. They may be just going out to eat and dance.

It is not the school decision.

I hope they don't step on there ding dongs over this!

I agree. The school's reasoning isn't quite logical. It's not like the bus serves alcohol or whatsoever. The bus is just taking them to nearby restaurant. You would think they will have more liabitity if they cancel the service. Besides, if underage students were offered alcohol, it's the restaurant's fault, not the school.

The bus is there to promote SAFETY, not underage drinking....

At GW, we have 4-RIDE which is a school run van system that runs all over the GW campus as well as the surrounding neighborhood. Runs from 7pm to 7am 7 days a week. It won't take you to bars, but it will take you to the nearest intersection.

Excellent program, and students really use it (esp. since a cab in DC is expensive as hell!!), which minimizes drunk students stumbling around campus.

I just wish the wait when you call for it didn't take FOREVER on Friday and Saturday nights. :mad:

They are faced with a similar development at Valparaiso University. I'm sure some of you remember the protests against the campus police lat year. Well this year, our student escort vans are no longer allowed to be driven by students. The drivers are hired through the campus police departmetn and the police will have the freedom to come on the bus to make sure noone has been drinking. Also any violations will be sent directly to the Campus police, no matter what it is.

The van generally works on campus and also down toward the frats where our law school and random other campus buildings are located, as well as a few restaurants. They think that this will prevent the students from drinking and using the van as a safe way to get home. I could rant a whole lot on the way valpo treats it's students. I have actually heard them make comments that if a women decides to drink and needs to walk home than it is her fault as to what happens to her, it is not their responsibility to look out for those breaking the law.....:eek:

They have these saferide vans in Norman, OK (where Oklahoma U is). It is not unheard of for the cops to pull over a saferid van and arrest the passengers for public intox.

They shouldn't be cops if they do stuff like that.

Why not?

Simply because if the van/bus driver has done nothing wrong, then they have no probable cause for stopping said vehicle!

No search warrent then have not right to check the passengers unless the passengers got rowdy and cause problems.

Kevin, you want to field this as a up and coming Laywer?

Because that's bullshit, thats why. Why do that to a bunch of kids who are being completely responsible.

Thank You and True That!:)



Oh hell, never mind, just give them a kick in the teeth anyway for being safe college kids!:(

If the Bus was taking the students to a Restaurant, and the Restaurant has the license to sell alcohol and the Restaurant is where it is purchased and consumed, then I fail to see where the school nor the SGA is responsible. The restaurant is responsible for the ID checking, etc. Not the person or entity (such as a school) that brought them there.

If you took an underage roommate to the bar, and they got served, and then the roommate left...who is going to get the citation from the ABC board? The bar, not the person that brought them there.

The school made a stupid call.

Even if the van was pulled over by the police, the driver doesn't get charged with a "contributing to the deliquency of a minor". The police have to prove where they got the alcohol from. If they didn't get it from the driver and the driver didn't purchase it, then they cannot charge the driver.

Think about it, if the driver was responsible, then every cabbie would stop picking up people that call for rides from bars b/c of the liability.

OK. I think the school made a real mistake here.

I think the kids were being responsible.

They weren't being completely responsible, though. They were breaking the law.

I don't even agree with the law. I'd like to see the drinking age lowered to 18.

Still, it always seems to come back to the law, though.

Well, other than having sex isn't illegal. Yet.

So its against the law to go to a bar, drink, and ride back home?

It is against the law to drink underage, yes.

Wait what? I am officially confused.. the bus isn't transporting underage people to a bar and telling them to go drink or something. The bus is for all ages to go to the city.

Also - can you go to a bar there even if you're underage and drink pop or something? The onus is on the BAR, not on the bus drivers or the college.

Stupid school.

Emory may have pulled the bus program because they felt they were enabling underage drinking and/or binge drinking. The bus gave the local police a prime opportunity to bust a bunch of underage drinkers, and I'm willing to bet the school didn't want to tarnish their reputation to prospective students or risk the liability of an overintoxicated student riding the bus to and from the bars and then coming home and suffocating in his own vomit, and the ensuing law suit from the kid's family which would surely go after Emory for money (because, after all, they provided the safe transportation allowing precious Junior to be placed in temptation's path).

I don't know if it's geographically true for most campuses, but for my school (in the city) we have buildings located at places where there are restaurants, bars etc, nearby.

Our school has a similar bus system, but they would ONLY pick up and drop you off on campus buildings. So in a sense, you can go to a restarant then being picked up by the bus nearby in front of a school building. In that case, it would "sound" like the school is not encouraging underage drinking of all sorts. Just making sure that students get from building A to B safe.

of course, afterall, that doesn't stop people from drinking. But in this way, the school will feel they are not responsible for anything that happens to the student. But I do see another dilemma as to whether the bus driver will take the student or not....:confused:

"This week, the school has ordered this stopped, claiming it was allowing underage students access to alcohol."

If they're underage, yes.

So if you drive a cab and pick up someone drunk, you're supposed to card them to make sure they're of age?

I don't think drinking underage was ever mentioned. I have taken SafeRide in Norman before, and I am 21. You can be of age and still get a PI...so yes, pulling over the vans and arresting the people in them is ridiculous and complete bullshit, especially when you are being responsible.

Its college, give me a break. Underage kids are going to drink. Why punish them for doing the right thing and not driving.

Not to mention the biggest flaw in their statement was to assume that the bus gave access to alcohol to any students in general. It's the restaurant's responsibility. It has nothing to do with the bus.

it's unfair to cancel the system, because by doing so, they are also taking away the previlage to those who really need the system for "non-drunk" reasons.

I could be wrong, but are they trying to cut the cost? because it could cost a lot for the drivers to drive night shifts, right?

The SGA was paying for it with their own funds, per the OP.

Being in college doesn't exempt you from the law. People drink underage, yes, but having a bus that travels through town to and from the bars presents a liability for the university because the police are more likely to bust the kids on the bus, and as I mentioned earlier, there's a lawsuit waiting to happen the minute Frankie the Freshman binge drinks, hops on the bus and chokes to death on his own vomit. Mom and dad aren't going to sue Benny's Backwater Bar. They're going to go after the private university with its millions of dollars.

As far as I know, SafeRide in Norman doesn't have anything to do with the University, and from what I recall, they won't take you straight to a bar.

Its the Bar's responsibility to control who drinks, not the University....so I can't see a lawsuit against ______ University holding up, at all.

To my knowledge, in the 20+ years the Moonlight Express route has been in existence at Iowa State, the cops have never pulled it over and ticketed the riders on the bus. They have enough on their hands dealing with other issues. There have been fights on the bus, yes, and those people involved are dealt with by the police (if necessary) but it never turns into a free-for-all MIP/PI ticket writing session.

Also, the Moonlight Express won't drop you off at the front door of a bar or house party, but it will get you close.

This has nothing to do with the situation at all.

The only thing that made sense from your Post was reputation.

The bus was paid not out of School funding.

The Police had no reason to stop the bus and cite passengers.

There has to be probable cause to stop the bus.

Unless there was a reason to check the passengers, they cannot to that either.


As DeltAlum said, they violated the laws they are there to enforce, not be Emorys foot patrol.

It is not Emorys call to have this done unless it is against school polocy.

Call ACLU, they get in to s**t like this for the good of the down trodden?:rolleyes:

Oh the irony of Tom Earp commenting on people's posts making sense.

Ahhhh, words of wisdom :rolleyes: *nods*

Oh, and you are an authority I take it?:confused:

It was paid out the SGA funding, which is a part of the university. SGA Funds come from a university's student services and activities fee, which each enrolled student must pay. The SGA is an approved Emory activity. Thus anything sponsored by SGA or paid for by SGA is paid for by Emory and thus associated with Emory.

I'm not really seeing where everyone is so adamant about why this is wrong. Emory pulled a free bus shuttle program. That's within their right to do. There are still cabs and designated drivers if the students want to go out drinking. Underage drinking is illegal. Yes, people are going to do it, but a majority of people breaking a law doesn't make it legal. If you get busted you're still screwed. If there's a bus sponsored by a college activity and it is going to the bars and back, it is fair game for the cops to pull people over so they can bust people for underage intoxication. They could do the same in your dorm room or your parents' home.