Kids at nice restaurants
 

Do you think it's appropriate to take a child of say, 4 or 5 to a very nice restaurant?

Last Friday, I had dinner with my parents at a very nice restaurant downtown that did not serve what most people would call "kid friendly foods." (the place only had set menus/prix fixe) THere was a family next to us with a little girl who was probably 5 at most. She was well-behaved, but didn't eat with the family and spent the entire dinner watching the DVD that her parents brought with them. Do you think she would have been better off at home with a baby-sitter?

I don't know if the DVD was appropriate for a restaurant.. but if the child was well behaved.. why not? Surely there was something on the menu she could have eaten.. plus, she could have cocktails (a Shirley Temple) with mom and dad to feel grown up.

Of course. But some people are too lazy / cheap / selfish to actually try to find a babysitter. So they use a DVD / TV Set to be the babysitter instead and if the noise from the DVD player disturbs the other dining patrons, TOUGH BEANS!

I agree on this one. At least the child was not running around the resturant while the parents ate their dinner. That happened to me once. I was at a family dinner with my parents and grandmother at a 4 star resturant and a child (maybe 5) was crawling all over the floor and under other people's tables and the parents were ignoring her. It really bothered me!

I think it entirely depends on the child and the parents. Some children are socialized enough to be able to handle a "fine dining experience" earlier than others, mostly because their parents have insisted that they behave or leave - without stage whispers of doom, yelling, or hitting.

My parents were both very active in the community, and to this day, I hear stories about how people would be disturbed at first when one or both of my parents would bring me to a function - and then were shocked to see how well I behaved, without any correction whatsoever!

In my parents' case, there just wasn't a babysitter available 98% of the time.

ETA: My worst screaming child experience was at a crowded doctor's office, when a child ran up and down the waiting room, screaming her head off. She got close to me, I put my open hands on her shoulders and said, "Go sit down." She did. Her mother shot daggers at me, but if she wasn't going to rein her in, someone had to.

If the child in question was not distracting (i.e. crawling under tables, screeching like a banshee, throwing food, etc.) then I wouldn't think too much about it.

They should have left the kid at home.

I agree that it's fine to take kids to a nice restaurant if the kid is well-behaved and will, at least to some degree, enjoy it. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. Here, they brought along an electronic baby-sitter.

Part of the purpose of a meal like this is to eat, but part of the purpose is to enjoy being with family. They've now told the kid that the eating together part doesn't matter.

But what do I know -- our idea of "date night" has become taking the family to Schlotsky's, where they have computers. The kids get to scarf down pizza while they play on the computers, and we get a few minutes to talk to each other.

If its not the Cheesecake Factory or the like, kiddies should be at home. But, then again, I am without children, so my tune may change.;)

Agreed! Whether the expereince was appropriate for the child or the quality time was lost, I personally would not care as long as they didn't disturb my dinner.

I think it's absolutely fine, as long as the kid is well-behaved and not disruptive to others. First of all, why is a kid sitting quietly at a restaurant anyone else's damn business? Second, just because you have a kid doesn't mean you're relegated to crappy chain restaurants. Third, who knows if the kid would be "better off" with a babysitter.

The kid probably would have been better off at home with a babysitter. She probably would have been happier watching that DVD on the TV at home, wearing comfortable clothes and munching on pizza and popcorn.

However, it can be very difficult to find a reliable babysitter, especially on a weekend night. Perhaps the parents couldn't find someone, or their babysitter bailed at the last minute, so they had to bring their daughter along or not go out at all. At least they gave her a quiet activity (I assume the DVD player had headphones?) to keep her entertained.

What I cannot stand, is when parents bring ill-behaved small children to nice restaurants and then let them run around shrieking like little maniacs while pretending not to notice that their "little angels" are disrupting other diners.

There is an excellent restaurant in Banff called "The Grizzly House" where they serve meat on these hot hot hot rocks and you grill them at your plate and them dip them in fondue. They do not allow children, period, because the waiters don't need to be dodging children, while they are carrying 800F rocks to your table.

I don't think that if you have kids, that you need to be "relegated to crappy chain restaurants" either, but having a noisy DVD player would be disruptive to the other diners. If you have kids, go EARLY in the night, so that others who bothered to get a babysitter can have a little romance over the candlelight.

As long as the child is well-behaved, I don't see a problem with it. If you're doing something at the restaurant that you'd rather not have children see, then maybe you shouldn't be doing it in public at all.

My parents took my siblings and I took nice restaurants when we were younger, and they got lots of compliments on how well-behaved we were. If you teach a child how to behave in public, then it shouldn't be a problem.

If I had a restaurant, no children under 12 would ever be premitted.

The only reason they're allowed into chain restaurants is b/c chain restaurants are usually desperate. And most people who eat at chains restuarants suck donkey balls at the migrant worker camp.

The next time you're at a chain restaurant, you should kill whoever is at the table beside yours. You might get arrested, but you'd be doing society a favor. And not inside the restuarant, no one wants messy tablecloths.

Definitely a candidate for Future Father of the Year.

When I said "romance" over the candlelight, I meant talking and holding hands by candlelight, not "hitting it" right there and then on top of the table.

The trouble is, jubilance1922, too many people do NOT teach their children how to behave in public. They believe that their children can "do no wrong" and they ruin it for the rest of us.

That is entirely too true! Too many parents rely on teachers or other authority figures to teach their children manners. If I hear the phrase "quality time" one more time, I may have to take the "How Likely Are You to Go Postal?" quiz again!

And I find myself agreeing with valkyrie yet again. (Twighlight Zone music!)

It's important for kids to learn good manners and good behavior. While its nice to bring kids to more "fun and child friendly" chains every now and then, children also need to learn how to fit into the parent's lives.

The only thing that I disagree with is the DVD player at dinner... it can disturb other diners and isn't appropriate at the dinner table.

I have a problem with parents who don't teach their kids how to behave, because while I'm trying my hardest teaching mine manners and how to behave in public, and she sees other kids running around like nutjobs she wants to know why she can't do that too. And making comments such as "Well, those children's parents let them behave like animals" WILL backfire, because I know my child WILL repeat that loudly at an extremely inopportune time.

I agree. When I said the child should have been left at home, it was not because children should never darken the doors of a nice restaurant, it was because if the kid needed a DVD player at the restaurant, then she didn't need to be there to begin with.

I agree completely that kids need to learn good manners and acceptable behavior in public settings. Last time I checked, it was neither good manners nor acceptable behavior to watch TV at the dinner table. This kid wasn't learning how to fit into her parent's lives, she was learning that they will adapt their lives to what she wants.

One can't have it both ways -- Either they are teaching her how to behave in public, meaning she actually carries on a conversation with them, or they are teaching her to be anti-social at the dinner table.

Taualumna's original question was not whether it was inconsiderate to other diners for the girl to be at the restaurant -- assuming she had headphones, then it wasn't inconsiderate. Her question was whether the child would have been better off at home with a sitter. I think she would have been.

And trust me, I know how hard it can be to get a sitter sometimes, and the problems that ensue when a sitter cancels at the last minute. You deal with it. You change plans as necessary, and you reschedule the nice dinner at the nice restaurant.

Exactly. If the point of the dinner was for Mom and Dad to have a nice, romantic meal, the child should have stayed at home. If the point was for the family to enjoy a meal together, they should have gone to a family restaurant.

A dvd player in a restaurant is simply inappropriate. If you're going to be out somewhere with your kids, you shouldn't ignore them. :(

There is no way a stranger can make this determination, period.

Excellent point!

ETA: You're right that the DVD didn't teach the child anything except BAD manners. However, I do think it's important for children to learn how to behave in a nice restaurant, and shouldn't always be exposed to family restaurants. If this child needed a DVD in order to behave, then yes, I agree, she should have been left home with a babysitter rather than disturbing other diners.

And this differs from half of the discussions on Greek Chat how?

I believe that's where the work "think" comes into play. Meaning, in his opinion, a child would be better at home with a sitter, then at a nice restaurant with a DVD player.

Not definitively, but we're only making a generalized assumption here.

If the child can sit quietly during their dinner, then I don't mind her/him being in the restaurant.

The good thing about fancy restaurants is that the servers and management will usually go the extra mile to make sure their customers are comfortable and have a pleasant dining experience. I was at a high-end restaurant a few months back. A couple at the table next to us brought their little "angel". He had to be about 3 or 4 years old. He was continuously banging his fork against the water glass and he kept making these awful screeching noises. It was so irritating so we asked the server if we could move to a table FAR from the child. The restaurant was packed so the manager went over to the table and told the parents that their "angel" needed to stop disturbing the other patrons. The parents looked mortified. Classic. The parents did get their kid under control after that.

I would have to guess that if a child can't be at a restaurant without having a dvd player to occupy him/her, then (s)he would be better off at home with a sitter where (s)he could watch movies or do whatever (s)he wants.

LOL true. It's just funny to me how people are so quick to say "the child would've been better off at home with a sitter!" What if the kid has Asperger's or agoraphobia and the parents are slowly trying to help her get more comfortable in new situations? What if the sitter is a child molester? I mean, WHO KNOWS. The real question here has nothing to do with whether the kid is "better off" with a sitter because there is no way any of us can know that. The people who are saying she would be are, I think, expressing either discomfort with seeing a small child at a certain type of restaurant OR their judgment of how the parents are raising their kid.

I agree on both points AND the general rule I learned is if the establishment does NOT have a child menu, then no young kids. Period.

I'd say it was time to find a new sitter in that case.

Well, as the father of a kid who has ADHD and is being tested in a month or so for Aspergers, I can see your point -- No one knows what is really going on except for the parents (I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and hope they know what is going on. ;) ), and we're getting into dangerous territory by second guessing them. Given my situation described above, I know all too well about judgments from other adults who don't know the whole story.

That said, if it were my kid, he wouldn't be coming to the nice restaurant until he was ready to behave in the manner expected in that restaurant, which presumably would not include watching a movie. (Which may be why my son hasn't been to a really nice restaurant yet.)

We have a very nice restaurant in town that is similar in quality & atmosphere to Ruth's Chris Steakhouse. It is a restaurant that I simply love, as do my parents (and there is not one in their town). So when they come to visit us, they want to eat at least one dinner at this place. Well, they also want to see their grandson. So, the first time we went together, Eli had just turned 3. Eli is a good kid, well behaved (most of the time), but he is a kid - and sometimes, there is just no telling what you'll get from him. I debated & debated about going with him, and finally mom & dad said - let's go, and if he misbehaves, we will take him outside. So we went - and the looks walking in the door scared me to death thinking this was a big mistake. Our waiter was very cordial & pleasant, and attended to Eli as if he were another adult at the table. Eli was on perfect behavior for the whole night. As we were leaving, the waiter commented to me that normally he can't stand to wait a table with a small child, but that our son was welcome any time due to his good behavior. I was very pleased that he mentioned it to me - it certainly made me feel at ease about having brought him in the first place.

As I have said before -- like most people, I was a great mom before I had kids. I get so discouraged when I hear so many young people talk about bratty kids, and how if they had a kid, he wouldn't act like that. There are going to be times that you cannot account for a child's behavior. Sometimes, even the best of circumstances turn ugly & a full fledged fit will occur before you know what is happening. These are the times where you, as a mom, want to crawl into a hole & never be seen again. I am NOT talking about the mom's (and dad's) that sit there & tolerate such behavior -- the ones that say "please don't yell" repeatedly, and keep bribing their kids to be good... I am talking about the ones (like myself) that try to correct the behavior, and if not, we leave. I believe that one of the best ways to teach a child to be polite & show good manners is at a dining establishment that doesn't have a play area! Now while we would much rather frequent Moe's once a week, it doesn't mean that once in awhile, I want to go someplace special & show my son how to behave appropriately in a nicer setting.

I disagree 100% with the DVD player -- even with headphones. You can teach your child the appreciation of dinner conversation versus allowing him or her to watch yet more TV. I was mortified to see a child that couldn't have been more than 15 months at a Cracker Barrel watching his DVD player. Yes, we eat dinner in front of the TV more than I'd like to admit, but I'm not taking it with me to a restaurant!

Seems to me that kids should always be welcome at family style restaurants and always be welcome at any restaurant so long as they behave themselves. When I was a kid I was expected to conduct myself well in any place where it was appropriate. My Mom and Dad let us blow off steam at home or in places where kids naturally cut up. However, we were taught from our very earliest years that bad manners would not be tolerated. Going to good restaurants was seen by us as a privelege where we got to try interesting new dishes and be included with adults. It was a really big deal to us to go to grown up places and eat grown up food. We were allowed to go when we were about five and we were "on best behavior". By the time all three were going it was Mom and Dad, and then three of us aged 5,7, and 9.
We spent a lot of time in New Orleans and a trip to Antoine's, Arnaud's, or Gallatoire's was a real incentive to be polite. We got to know good restaurants in St Louis, Chicago, New York, Boston, and Philadelphia, not to mention when Dad was assigned overseas in Europe. Everything was so good we looked forward to dressing and acting the part. Years later Dad told us that it was a simple way of helping us to learn how to conduct ourselves by offering the reward of being included if we played the game and being left with a sitter if we screwed up. Dad told us that these restaurants were expensive but really excellent and that all who dined there were entitled to relax and enjoy their meals without disruptive action on our parts. We thought it was cool that we got in on the good stuff and learned that good food, good conversation, and good ambiance were hard to beat.
When I have a kids of my own I plan to apply much the same approach.

In the case you describe, yes, she would have been better off at home with a sitter. However, it could be that the sitter canceled on the family OR they were visiting from out of town, you just don't know.

We've taken our 3.5 year old son to some fairly nice restaurants, but only if he is well rested and we bring some quiet activities for him to enjoy (paper & crayons, a book, etc.). He does not eat typical kid food - turns his nose up at chicken nuggets & fries, so working around an 'adult' menu is not an issue. In fact, the other night he devoured an entire artichoke on his own and has been known to out-eat my husband when it comes to salmon roe sushi.

If and when I would go to a Very Posh Resturant, I would not expect Little kids screaming, hollaring, beating silver ware on plates or glasses.

Leave them at home as most parents do not do anything to kids except scream NO!:mad:

Infringement works both ways.

Dont screw with My Space Munchins!:p

when my children were young, if my husband and i wanted to have a nice dinner out, we hired a babysitter. it would really burn me up when we would plan a nice evening out,book a reservation, hire the babysitter, go to a swanky restaurant and be seated at a table next to a young child. i have gone to the expense of hiring a babysitter, why couldn't they? it still chaps my hide when i think of it.

i would usually discreetly request to be seated in another part of the restaurant. children can be taught good manners and how to eat a fancy meal at home. i really resent it when it is done on my time and ruins my special evening.

The last part of Your Post is so true.

If they are not taught manners at home, do not take them out to disturb others who wish to have a nice quiet evening.:)

The difference between your comments and behaviors of many parents I see with children out in resturants is that you said the magic words if he does not behave "we leave". My parents raised both my brother and I by taking us first to family resturants then to nicer ones as our behavior was able to handle it, if one of us had a trantrum then one of my parents left the behaving child with the other parent and the misbahaving one was in the car with mom or dad for the evening. I think that made a lot of sense. We had a consequence when we distrubed other diners. My mother has since told me that she felt like it was not her right to bother other peoples dinner. Sadly, I have a friend who is on the whole a good mother, but when it comes to resturants she will let her child act like a moron. She screams, cries, runs around, etc. Before she had children we were out at a resturant and we saw a child acting like this. I expressed my digust and she replied "well that's how kids learn by watching others, eventually the child will get it." Apparently she has used this on her own kids and they are monsters in resturants. She feels like she is paying to go there and she has "the right" to let her children act any way they want. That is the attitude that bothers me. Maybe it's because I don't have kids I say that, but my mom who raised two children seems to feel the same way, I know because we have discussed it.

I say as long as the child is not disturbing others and behaving fine, but even with headphones having a dvd player in a resturant is distracting and just plain rude. Sitting and coloring quietly fine, but a dvd player crosses the line to me. Frankly if I was in the resturant and paying what I am assuming are high prices for both the meal and the decor of a nice resturant and there was a dvd player next to me, I would ask the management to move my party and then let them know that I was dissatified with my dining experience and let them know why.