Formal vs. Informal
 

Basically, which is better?

Formal vs Informal for Fraternities
 

You asked which is better for fraternities.

Informal rush is better for fraternities for these reasons:

1. Formal rush guarantees a pledge class but makes fraternities lazy. They tend to rush who shows up rather than seeking out the top candidates on campus.

2. If there's an off-year in overall numbers or quality in formal rush, the fraternities will tend not to correct it by aggressively going into the student body and getting new members. They'll tend to stay in their houses and rationalize.

3. Many of the guys who go through formal rush are attracted by the image of fraternities that they have seen in Animal House or spring break videos. Nothing wrong with having those guys in a chapter, but there's a problem when they become the big majority.

4. Formal rush generally does not attract the already-established campus leaders who are not Greek, nor the varsity athletes who are not Greek. Those guys tend not to join fraternities unless it's a small private campus.

5. For the reasons above, a lot of men who would be good members do not join. Varsity athletes, campus leaders, serious students often choose not to go through formal rush. As a result, the chapters turn inward and hazing becomes more likely.

6. With formal rush, the chapters learn not to work hard to seek out top candidates on campus. That takes effort and organization. The payoff is tremendous for a chapter willing to recruit all year round, and to go after the top names and faces on campus.
There are exceptions: top fraternities at Ole Miss will each pull 50-70 pledges out of formal rush. Quarterbacks Archie and Eli Manning are Sigma Nus; a lot of ole miss atheltes pledge fraternities (not in formal rush). And, fraternity men run most campus organizations.
Small private universities like Wofford, Duke, Wake, SMU and others make formal rush work well. But generally - generally - the larger the campus, the less helpful formal rush is for the fraternity system.

I like your explanation on the different type of guys that join through formal and informal rushing. I have also seen that informal rush, while takes a longer amount of time and more dedication, has the ability to produce results that formal can't touch. I am not excluding the fact that there are men that go through formal who are excellent candidates, as there are plenty as well. But with an informal system, you aren't competing with other fraternities for the same guys. There may be some who are interested in a couple, but informal provides a more laid back setting where a potential pledge can get deep inside the house as opposed to seeing little at a time.

So when we look at fraternities' perspective informal rush is much better. Is it any different when we look at rushees' perspective? What are the advantages and disadvantages of both systems for people who are rushing?

I am wondering about the discussion is all about here?

There seems to be talks about which is best among Sororities and Fraternieties as I have heard.

There should be a combonation of both, Formal and Informal.
We used to have Formalo Rush which was a Cattle Call.

Everyone did it and that was all there was.

Now, there is an open recruitment in some colleges.

But, why not really try the combonation of both ways.

Do not Lock PNMers into a system.

If they are not comfortable with one, then there is also the possibility of recruitment coming in at a more relaxed pace. This does give an open door for more people to actually check out the local GLOs.

Many in the Southern Schools are going to be Legacies and have4 only one place that parental apptitude will allow them.

If they are not gong into Mom/Dads, they are not going anywhere! DA!:rolleyes:

I've never thought about it, but I suppose formal rush is best for the rushees because they see every house and every house sees them. Informal rush makes is more difficult to connect with a particular house, especially if you don't know anyone there.
As a rush chairman I prefer informal rush since that gives me and my chapter every advantage. For the top houses with the best reputations, I suppose the ideal combination would be intense summer rush with open pledging, followed by formal rush in the fall so I could have a shot at anyone I'd missed.

The University of Arkansas had that system; so did Missouri, Kansas and Kansas State. I don't know what they have today.

Firehouse - excellent posts.

I would also add spring rush to the mix. Some guys may be under the chapter's radar until the middle of the fall semester. Or they might just want to wait until spring to rush. Fraternity rush should be 24 hours, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

Yes. What TSteven said.

A good house gets most of its guys well before formal rush starts, but during formal rush you will find guys worth pledging who are not necessarily from schools or backgrounds where they know to start attending events during the summer.

Spring is important too. Again- lots of quality candidates who maybe wanted to wait a semester before pledging, or came to college not knowing much about the Greek system.

A fraternity is only as good as its last pledge class. Until you have your chapter's ideal number of pledges, and good ones, lined up- you better take advantage of every recruiting opportunity you have.

And ideally you will have a strong informal rush program as well as a plan to be aggressive during whatever formal rush plan your school enforces for fraternities.

Then doesn't informal rush mean a big number of bidless rushees?

I'm not being flip, but I've never heard any guy say, "Gosh I really wanted to join a fraternity but no one would have me." Problems are created when a rushee decides that it's one house or nothing. There's always a fraternity who will take a man who wants in.
It's not at all like the sorority rush where there are a limited number of slots available. Men react very badly to anyone trying to limit their size or make them conform to sorority notions like "quota" or "limitation." Fraternities can take as many or as few as they like.

It varies by chapter, but for us informal rush was during the summer before freshman year and by invitation only. Since Texas is a state school, most of your potential pledges will come from Houston, Dallas, Austin or San Antonio- and typically there is a rush captain for each city who organizes events in that city and invites people recommended/recruited by brothers from that city.

But, at least for us, it was never a cattle call. Summer informal rush is when you lock in the guys who the chapter knows about and wants to bid. It is expensive and time-consuming since you are not just hosting stuff in the chapter house, so efforts are focused on top candidates who are often rushing other houses at the same time.

Again, you get some solid guys in formal rush- but the real competition for pledges is in the summer.

My son is a senior and will be going through rush next year. I honestly have no idea how fraternity rush works. I was in a sorority that had deferred rush, my husband was in a frat that had fall rush, but it was a long time ago, so we are clueless. My son knows some guys that are in fraternities at the school he will be attending and they all say he should join their frat. It sounds like it is mostly like EE BO is saying, and he will be invited to parties at those houses this spring and summer, but will he ever get a chance to see or be seen by other fraternities? My older son went to UF and is involved in a sport so chose not to do the frat thing, but the summer before, they sent questionaires for him to fill out (he didn't because he didn't want to rush), is this general practice? At my sr son's high school, it seems like all the guys tend to join certain fraternities at this college, so are these the only parties he will go to? I don't necessarily have a problem with this because the guys we know are great, but I would like him to have options. Any info would be appreciated.

A lot of southern chapters (big and not so big) have rush parties in the summers. Most are ways to meet potential members, get to know them, and let them know about the chapter. Some campuses allow the chapters to offer bids during summer. My own chapter would hold a couple of summer rush parties, but could not give out bids until official rush and bid day.

Guys from the same hs will tend to join the same fraternities at colleges. It's easy to judge someone when a member can say: "I know this guy and can vouch for him." or "This guy is my cousin's best friend. He's good." I think it happens a lot.

By all means, if your son wants, he does not have to sign or accept a bid before school and rush begins. He can wait and go to the parties and get to meet and know as many of the chapters as he can. Personally, I think it's a good idea.

As we all know, "The Fall Rush" is the most important in many minds.

New PMM's.

But as has been pointed out in the "Old South States", recruitment is done during the summer and for legacies.

The cattle call of the fall gets over whelming for new kids coming to school and look at the Chapter Buildings, not the people on the inside.:(

While a Formal Recruitment is good, how many really sign up for it as they are scared of what they may not know or feel they cannot afford it? They want to find out a little more before thay make a comitment.

Formal recruitment can be good, but it doesn't stop there does it.

I am amazed how few schools and Greeks do not worry about Spring recruitment?:o I have preached for years about Spring Recruitment.

A new Frosh can get an idea and meet people on a one to one basis, visit and see if they fit in. See if they can afford sometning they are not sure about joining.

Kids today are Dumber and yet smarter with less money because of the economy.

It has to be proven to them that they will get out of the Union for the moneies worth.:)

Someone once said on a thread, We don't tell them the costs. How stupid. Cost is an important part of to days Greek Life.

We as GLOs have to compete with many parts of College life including the cost of living in a House if there is one.

But, never forget, We have to sell ourselves not just a Building.

Agree, agree, agree. Some of the best pledge classes/ guys we got were in Spring recruitment. We were able to identify them and get to know them during fall semester. They were able to get to know us and see what we were really about. We also tended to get guys who were "dead-set" against going Greek when they hit campus. They would get to know us and end up being strong members. This could also be an arguement for deferred rush for freshmen.

LaneSig, this is where We disagree. Defered rush is and can be a death bell ringing.

If many get the chance to do to many things, then what do they need Greeks for?:)

They need to at least get a taste of what We as Greeks are about.

Thanks for agreeing with Me on Spring Rush!

It just proves that when it is not done, it is because of laziness on the GLOs part!

No problem, Tom. We can disagree without name calling (unlike some other people on here:D) . But, I think that SMU and Vanderbilt would disagree that it is the death knell. Some schools that do deferred for freshmen have an informal rush in fall.

Now, back to formal vs. informal.

Hm, interesting concept!

That may actually be the wave of the Future?:D

Do it Ass Backwards to what We are used to!:)

The Key is, no matter which Semester is the most important, it is just not the only one!:)

While I understand the reasons behind it, I'm not keen on deferred rush for freshmen. Incoming freshmen that know they want to go Greek, either from summer rush events or through formal rush in the autumn, should be able to rush/join in the autumn. And those freshmen who might need that first semester to adjust to campus life and or figure out if Greek life is for them, they have the opportunity to rush and join in the spring.

Welcome to the forum srmom.

It sounds like your son is in pretty good shape on the rush front. Anytime someone is getting recruited during high school by college friends and contacts, that is a good sign. So your son will surely have lots of choices.

Depends on the school and chapter, but very often you will see particular chapters recruit heavily out of particular cities and even certain high schools. So a fraternity can often be a continuation in some senses of high school. This can be good or bad depending on what your son wants.

It varies greatly- but typically if a rushee is a solid candidate with a particular chapter, he can expect to receive a bid after 2-3 events. 3 seems to be the usual standard.

It can sometimes happen at the 1st event- but frankly I find that suspicious. It looks desperate and your son should be wary about a fraternity that offers a bid the first time he attends a rush event. Even for guys who have strong connections to get into a house, it does not often happen at the first party. A chapter that bids a guy at the first party is a chapter whose judgment I would question because no matter a chapter's "rank" socially, they should be looking carefully at potential members and how they would benefit the brotherhood.

If nothing is forthcoming after 4 events, then it is time to reconsider whether things are working out. And it never hurts to ask a member privately at this point how things are going. Guys are going to be honest about this stuff and it could be nothing to worry about at all.

Once a person gets a bid during informal rush, it is okay to wait for a while to accept- but that can be a dangerous game. Sometimes pledge classes fill up, and sometimes a chapter can interpret a long delay in accepting a bid to mean a lack of interest. This is not usually the case, but my advice is that once your son finds a chapter he really likes, he should take the bid when it comes. There is not one particular house that will be the magical right place for your son, or anyone for that matter, to pledge- so no need to wait around for that to happen when you have a bid in hand from a house you really like.

On a final note, we all know the drinking age is 21. And I will not suggest anyone under 21 ever drink.

But summer rush events are parties. If your son must drink, the best advice I can give him is to NEVER get drunk or lose control of his senses.

Taking one sip is against the law, and that is a chance we all took at that age.

But even if you are rushing the hardest core party house on campus, the ONE thing that can get an otherwise solid rushee blacklisted in a hurry is being that rushee (and every year there are some) who thinks it is cool to get plastered and do stupid things. This is ESPECIALLY bad if ladies from sororities are present.

Rush for guys is a fairly laid back process. But not being able to handle your booze is one thing that can kill your chances during rush. Save that stuff for later.

It is better to not drink at all than drink too much. Even the party houses will be interested in a solid guy who does not drink. But drinking too much at rush events can only bring trouble.

Final advice- tell your son to talk to a few ladies who are either in sororities where he is going to college, or to fellow high school classmates who can get him in touch with sorority women.

Sorority members are the best resource he has to find out more about the various fraternities and what they are really like before he begins the rush process. Summer rush events often overlap, and so he might have to make choices about attending one party versus another. Having advice from sorority women will help him make better choices.

Best of luck to your son. This forum is here if you have any more questions or experiences to share.

Here's the link to an article in the UofArizona student newspaper about Fraternity rush which is this week.

http://media.wildcat.arizona.edu/med...epublisher.com

EE-Bo and others, thanks for your advice. Over the weekend, my son ran into somebody who is in a frat at the college he will be attending. They exchanged cell numbers and the guy wants him to come to their winter formal and also to come and visit. Wow, I guess we better gear up for him attending some events (as a worried mom, this will be a stretch, but I'll let him go :o ) I also ran into a mom of a frat member there and she told me that my son would be invited to parties on campus and also to some out of town events :eek: . I will definitely pass on all of the information ya'll have given. I know that the frat that my husband and his brother were in at this particular campus is no longer there (woops, I'd love to know why that is!) so legacy will not be used. I guess you don't need recs like sorority recruitment. It looks like we are about to get a real education.

My campus had deferred rush - I liked it because it gave you a chance to see all the sororities and find out what they were like (not just reputations). There wasn't supposed to be any recruitment before rush, but you would meet girls in class and at parties, so it was nice to see familiar faces at the rush events. The sororities also got a chance to see you too, so it was imperative to keep your nose clean!!!!

Formal or informal, I found this on the University of West Georgia IFC website. I think it's a great list.


The Ten Commandments of Recruitment

These are ten commandments of Recruitment; ten tips that should make you very successful during this year's Recruitment. Learn them. Live them. And follow them!

1. Recruitment More than One Chapter
The best strategy for Recruitment is to explore all of your options. By doing that, you'll ensure that you make the best choice for yourself. Visit all the chapters early in the week, narrow down your choices to the three or four that you like best, then concentrate on them during the rest of Recruitment. Likewise, one of the easiest ways not to get a bid is to Recruitment only one chapter. Even if you know the chapter plans on giving you a bid, you may not be joining the best chapter for you. You may not know that until after it is too late. Any good fraternity should want you to check out other chapters. If their chapter is so strong, other chapters can only make them look better. And you'll have more peace of mind that you joined the right fraternity.

2. Don't stereotype the chapters
Don't be mislead by the size of a house, or where it is on campus. Chapters big and small, on campus or off, have a lot to offer you. It all depends what you are looking for. Larger fraternities may offer you more opportunities as a group, but a smaller chapter may give you more opportunity as an individual. You'll have more opportunity to be an officer in a smaller chapter, and your influence may be much greater there than in a larger or more established chapter. West Georgia has an excellent variety of small and large chapters. Choose one that fits your style. The chapter you join may not be #1 on campus, but with your leadership and influence, it can get there.

3. Ask Intelligent Questions
More importantly, look for intelligent answers. Questions are one of the best ways to show your interest in the chapter, and getting the answers ahead of time will save you any surprises down the road. Can I move into the house? How much are dues? What would be expected of me as a new member? What are your parties like? How long is the pledge program? Can I play intramurals? What is your chapter's view in hazing? The only bad questions are the ones you don't ask. Thinking about your questions ahead of time will keep the conversation rolling and show your interest. How can you be sure you're getting straight answers? Ask the same questions to different people in the house and compare what they say.

4. BE CONFIDENT
One of the most important tips during Recruitment is to act confident. No one is truly one hundred percent confident, but the more self-assured you can appear to be, the better.

5. Don't Try To Be Something You Are Not
Pick the chapter that fits your personality. Don't worry, there is a chapter out there for you.

6. Beware of Subtle Clues
Remember that Recruitment is a two-way street. You're looking for a chapter that fits your style, and they're looking for members that will fit theirs. If your not getting a warm reception, than don't waste what little time you have there.

7. Don't be Tied to Your Friends
Without a doubt, this is one of the most tragic mistakes you can make as a Recruitmentee. Joining a fraternity involves the development of total brotherhood, involvement with dozens of other men who share your common interests. Don't let the future be influenced by one individual. If he's such a close friend, he'll still be there if you decide to join another chapter. Every Greek has friends in other chapters. It will build your friendship base even stronger, giving you new friends and acquaintances.

8. Meet as Many Guys as You Can
Most chapters extend bids based on a vote of approval. In many chapters, at least 50-75% of the members need to give you the thumbs up in order for you to get a bid. Meet as many guys as you can, and don't hesitate to ask them to introduce you around. Be assertive and act confidently. Ask to meet the Recruitment chairmen and the officers. If they like you, they can have a lot of influence.

9. Be Available During Recruitment
Many chapters will send out flyers, invitations, and bids to you throughout Recruitment week. Be sure that the chapters you like have your phone number and room numbers, and they will be able to reach you. If you need to turn down an invitation to a chapter you really like, be sure to call their Recruitment chairman, thank him, and maybe make plans for a different event. Don't miss out on an event, or even a bid, because you could not be reached.

10. Use Careful Consideration in Accepting a Bid.
Remember that Recruitment is a limited time period. Your fraternity affiliation will last a lifetime. Keeping that in mind, don't make any rash decisions on accepting a bid. You don't need to feel pressured to accept a bid the moment it is offered. It won't be revoked while you check out other chapters. Don't always accept the first bid you receive. You'll probably get others, and they are all valid until the end of Recruitment, often times longer. Take your time and make the right choice!

A "Recruitmentee"?!? Now I've heard everything! :eek:

Yeah, I thought that one was kind of odd, too. lol

Good list and nice to see in writing.

All of this is common sense and as such, I would hope that most of it is already (should be) know by the rushees. However, a few "commandments" (with text highlighted for emphasis) are often overlooked or simply not thought about during rush.

This should go without saying, yet not everyone gets it.

Not letting the rush chair - and the member who invited you - know that you are unable to attend an event where you have been personally invited (especially a party or event that is "invite only") shows disrespect to the chapter and to the member. Nothing can get a rushee dropped quicker than disrespect. Regardless if it is real or perceived.

Deadlines may not be the same on other campuses. Or even the same for chapters on the same campus. So be sure to *know* the date when you must accept a particular chapter's invitation (bid).

I agree 100%

Deferred rush was designed to keep the frats getting smaller and smaller and smaller until one day gone. Most chapters are better off as sub-rosa orgs anyway. The administration is stupid.

Sorry, but I have to disagree and think that SMU and Vanderbilt would also disagree. I don't see their chapters getting smaller and smaller until disappearing.

I go back and forth on deferred rush. For some guys, it's good for them to get used to college and the new demands of college classes and being on their own. We've all seen great pledges who didn't get intiated because they didn't make grades because they weren't ready for the demands of college life.

This thread doesn't make alot of sense seeing as the at least decent chapters already have their pledge classes figured out before high school is done with...

However, spring rush is usually the worst people we end up taking because these guys didn't know they wanted to go through fall. If you're not fraternity bound at the get-go, you're probably worthless.

elephantwalk,
if fraternities have their pledge classes determined before school starts, what happens when an awesome rushee walks into the house during formal recruitment who is not from the area, and therefore has not been able to attend the summer rush parties?

Elephant Walk -

That was a very thought provoking statement. Thank you for taking the time to share it with us.

How do the rest of you feel about formal vs. informal?

Both formal and informal have their merits. Formal recruitment is great for bringing out the guys who are guaranteed to join and are actively looking for a chapter (the NIC likes to say that this is between 10 and 20 percent of the campus population). It does not, however, do much to attract the men who haven't considered greek life. These guys are a far larger pool of the population. This is where informal recruitment comes into play.

I knew nothing about greek life when I first came to my campus and I completely missed formal recruitment. Off of a chance meeting with an expansion consultant nearly a month after the end of formal rush I attended an informational session and became a colonizing member and founding father of the organization which has changed my life.

Despite Elelphant Walk's claim, many valuable members have no intention of joining a fraternity when they come to college. It's not that they are anti-greek but rather that they simply know nothing. I was one of those individuals yet I'd like to believe that I am a great brother and an asset to my chapter. Greek life wasn't even on my radar when I came here and now I'm on IFC's eboard and am my chapter's philanthropy chair. Much of the same can be said for my brothers.

Informal recruitment has largely made my chapter what it is today. Formal recruitment has certainly been an asset. We get about half of our brothers through traditional rush. In the year-and-a-half since chartering, however, we have become not only the largest chapter on campus but also the chapter most recognized by campus. We got there by having a very heavy emphasis on informal recruitment. Formal rush lasts a few weeks at max. Recruitment should take place every day.

Meet him. Make him your friend. Introduce him to your friends. Make him friends with your friends. You and your friends introduce him to your fraternity. 95% chance, he'll join your fraternity.

As someone who's gone through both formal and informal rush as a rushee, I'd like to offer my insights from my own personal perspective.

Formal Rush

Positive Aspects

1. It's a lot more exciting. The rush of parties, house tours, etc create a thrilling atmosphere in its compressed state.

2. When you're rushing with the same group of people, you can see where they're leaning towards and get their thoughts on things. This is useful in that it a) gives you other information and pairs of eyes to consider perspectives of and b) if they're looking like a strong mutual match for one fraternity or the other, you can take into consideration if you'd like to be a fellow pledge brother with them in that fraternity.

Negative Aspects

1. You've got to be fast. Fast in evaluating your choices and faster still to make a good impression. This is really where the limited time factor comes into play and paying attention to signs. We've all discussed on here how some great PNMs slip through the cracks. That's something that can happen in formal rush.

2. Related to #1, even if you don't slip through the cracks, you can still end up pledging a house that you thought was the right fit for you, but after getting to know them more during pledge period, you realize that your initial impressions were wrong. This leads to either your de-pledging or initiating into a chapter you don't feel at ease around. In the first case, your chances of finding somewhere else have taken a huge hit. In the second, you get less than what you hoped for out of the fraternity experience.

Informal Rush

Positives

1. You have time to get to know the fraternities and they have the time to get to know you. This ensures the highest possible chance of mutual fit, which is the ultimate end goal in any fraternity or rushee's mind. (or it should be)

Negatives

1. It's frankly nowhere near as exciting as formal rush to me. Now some people will probably disagree with this, but it's my opinion.

So they both have their positives and negatives from a rushee's perspective. :)

LOL, I wonder how much of a blur there is to young people who are running from house to house?

During Formal, everyone puts on the Ritz to impress the new possibles and they do not really have time to put a hook on them unless they have a deep desire of joining a certain GLO.

If that is the case, they are going to join anyway and a lot of money is spent for a party.

Informal gives members a little more chance to meet the members and make a decission to see if there is a fit between both.

Informal Rush owns... Our big end of summer bash was "WaterSport Weekend". Hit up to the lake for a weekend of drinks, partying, boats and jet ski's. We'd ge the bulk of our Fall Class signed here. Also would have little bbq parties and big parties in some of the larger surrounding cities.

Then the blah-boring Formal Rush starts at the beginning of the school year. Coats and Ties, all stuffy and stuff.... Grab a handfull of new candidates here.

I hated formal rush.

With todays College costs, media reporting, anti Greek Social Organizations are a cost that many feel that they cannot afford or the parents are against joining.

While formal rush can be fun, it can also be a hardship and a blur for not only the possibles, but the chapters.

As a new local back when, we went through a Formal rush (Fall Semester) and got no one!:( While we were upset, we did not let that deter us. We then went to informal and got 12 new pledges ("USED" at that time) for us.

It was fun to see how some of the Sororities used to dress for formal rush and the costums that they wore. It was beautiful.:D

The thing is, the people need to meet each other and mesh!

Right Pinto!