Minimum Wage
 

I'm surprised that no one is talking about this.

I think that the minimum wage is ridiculous. With the minimum wage that low for almsot a decade, it seems that the buying power has become less. Look at you tuition for those of you that attend college. With tuition and textbooks prices going up, it seems that it's difficult to pay for all of that. For instance, my school's tuition is over $2600 for in-state students and almost $7900 for out of state students. And on top of that you have to have room and board, gas and food money, etc. Student Loans are being cut, forcing manys' dreams to get a college degree to end. A college degree is essential. There are some people that do well fiancially without it, but the key words are some people.

I'm disgusted at the minimum wage right now, while Congress have approve a pay raise year after year. It's is robbery. It is robbing many students and poor people.

Many people would say that we should work hard to get more money. But sometimes, hard work does not always pay off.

All I've got to say it that when I have kids, I will start a savings account for college the day after they are born, because you never know what will happen.

Minimum wage is a sham. The increase gets passed on to the consumer insuring that the gap maintains.

P.S. – I worked four years before I went to college.

Every time minimum wage gets increased, businesses die. There's no reason the gov't should be forcing it on people. If people are willing to work for $1/hour, let them. If they aren't, then you gotta pay more. If there is discrimination occurring, let the gov't step in to regulate. But, otherwise, STAY OUT OF MY MONEY.

Kevlar has it. If you can't take minimum wage, work before college. It's easier to get a higher paying full-time job than a part-time one. Personally, I think 18 year olds are too young to start college anyway. Let them work for a few years and then start school. Of course, this country is not equipped to accomodate that...sadly.

Can you explain your position on why 18 year olds are too young to start college? That just seems ridiculous to me.

Thanks for the platitudes . . . do these statements really mean anything?

Let's discuss the reality of the 'free market' - few people live at minimum wage as it is, and those who do are generally in areas with a ridiculously low cost of living. Employers will pay what they need to in order to attract employees, and "living wage" laws most likely foist the problem onto the backs of the lower middle class - it's not really the grand "top-down" or "bottom-up" ideal that people envision, and it's essentially partial socialism without any sort of reasonable utility.

The cost is NOT taken from the top of the chain - it's imparted on the rest of it, which affects the bottom rungs more than anything.

Yes, they do. Go to the grocery store, and see the ridiculous prices. The highest price for a gallon of milk is over $3. A movie ticket is expensive. It's $8here in many theaters. Many seniors can't afford prescription drugs, becasue of being paid low wages. They are given a choice between medicene and food. You can guess which they chose. In my state, thousands of people were cut from TennCare and many have to find other ways to pay. That's were the decision comes to for many poor people about medicene. That's exactly what I'm talking about the buying power becoming less.

Did we not learn from Hurricane Katrina? It seems that the Republicans have not learned from it. All the Republicans care about it the rich. I'm not saying that they don't give to the poor. It's just that they want to get greedy.

It's true that many people are paid more that the minimum wage, but the income still put them below the poverty line.

Looking back many moons later, I now realize that a teenager with no life experience charted my career path. I think this accounts for part of the quarterlife crisis many in our generation are facing.

I don't about you all, but I bet a lot of people wouldn't even be going to college if they could make a decent salary at McDonalds. I think most people go to college to try and earn a better salary for when they're older and the low pay at unskilled jobs gives that incentive. Higher skilled jobs will make more money.
Lately though it seems like the prices of everything has shot through the roof on gas, groceries to toiletries.

Thanks for the generalizations and attacks on Republicans. They do a whole lot to help the argument.

I'm with Kevlar and the others that raising minimum wage isn't going to do much, except hurt small and medium-sized business owners. Do we raise the minimum wages, help the small number who live off of these, but in return doom the small businesses that hire these people? Doesn't make sense to me.

- Worked at least part time through high school, full-time in college, and did it for minimum wage at points (which at the time was less than $7 per hour).

Why do we even care about people making minimum wage? Who really cares? Where I live, in OKC, where a 2000 sq. ft. house goes for around $150,000 (ridiculously low cost of living), I know of absolutely no one who makes minimum wage other than teenagers.

Also, why would a grown person be making minimum wage? Perhaps because they made poor career decisions, or money wasn't and isn't important to them? We all have choices to make in life, and if your choices lead you to a job where you make $5.25/hr, then either you're mentally challenged, or you're just lazy. In the former case, you may qualify for governmental assistance. In the later case, why should any of us be responsible for paying for others who are simply lazy?

Rollergirl, I'm not sure that it's true that "all Republicans only care about the rich." In fact, that's BS and you know it. Republicans, however, tend to be conservative. Generally, conservatives do not think that as a society we ought to reward those who do not endeavor to make themselves useful to society. It's not that most of us hate the poor, it's that we believe that the poor have the power if they so choose to take advantage of the multitude of social and religious programs in order to make themselves worth more to society than $5.25/hr.

This is a valid point, but I don't think that working for a few years after high school and then going to college is going to make it better. I'm not sure what would.

I know you don't understand, but most of this paragraph actually supports what KSig RC is saying. If you raise min. wage, that $3 gallon of milk is suddenly going to be $5, and that $8 movie is going to be $12. Now, not only are the people who were making $5.15 struggling, but the people who are making $7 are now stuggling too.

...or that throwing money at a situation will make it better.

Honestly I think minimum wage jobs are for people in high school or college and shouldn't be looked at as a "career."

[QUOTE=AlphaFrog]
Not to mention, but if you can barely afford food, then why are you going for the most expensive gallon of milk? And why are you going to the movie theater when you can rent the movie for way cheaper when it comes out on video?

I'm making $8 at one job, and $10 at the other. I work a total of maybe 3 days a week. I could survive on my own if I didn't have a car, insurance, paid for BC and a pretty expensive phone bill every month. I could probably have a decent apartment with a roomate, maybe nothing special to it, but a roof over my head and a job that I can work my way up on or just get experience for another job. If you're making minimum wage, or around what I'm making (which amounts to horsecrap) maybe you should skip out on that $8 movie and buy yourself a $1something gallon of milk. It's all about budgeting wisely.

Aldi's = broke person's best friend.

Unless that movie is Snakes on a Plane, in which case it's totally okay.

WOOOOO SoaP!

AlphaFrog has already explained why you're totally wrong here, but I'll go into more detail.

Prices are set by the provider. The provider is a company. The first priority for any company has to be to make a profit, whether it be for shareholders, employee-owners or simply to pay salaries etc.

Raising wages significantly increases cost, which reduces profits, which leads to higher prices. Because the first dollar you earn is SIGNIFICANTLY more important than the last dollar you earn, these additional dollars in turn hurt people who make less money. You're taxing the semi-poor to pay the possibly poor (or the young, or the governmentally-assisted, or etc.).

Many seniors are also past retirement age, and already qualify for governmental assistance. Also, if you can show me a study where raising the minimum wage any reasonable amount (say, to $7/hr) would alleviate all drug-related ills among the elderly, I'll run with this argument - however, this problem is NOT a minimum-wage issue.

Also, this would be subject to market correction if seniors would a.) keep working the jobs they retired from, b.) utilized their collective power in organizations such as the AARP (seniors are NOT getting screwed in this country; they're the most overrepresented group on Earth) or c.) actually used the programs available, and didn't cheat them.

I get why this is your clarion call, but it's a touchy-feely argument that essentially amounts to BS under scrutiny.

In your state, why were these people cut from TennCare? Did they . . . no longer meet the requirements? Meaning . . . they earned too much?

Again, this is a feel-good argument that doesn't address the actual point: raising minimum wage may not help their 'buying power', and will significantly hurt those in the next tier(s) above them.

I did learn from Hurricane Katrina - I learned that it was a catastrophe, and using it as a bizarre strawman in an unrelated argument is pretty distasteful. You're distorting the issue for emotional effect - grow up.

Maybe, instead of 'protecting the rich', they're simply not favoring a very small part of society at the expense of an equally large segment (if not larger)?

Also, insinuating that this is purely a Republican problem is pretty short-sighted - both sides have attempted to tack increases onto non-related bills to kill them, it's a bipartisan effort, my friend.

This is only true in situations where one person is providing for multiple people - the poverty line for an individual is under $10,000, and 40 hours of $5.25/hr for 50 weeks is just over 10k. If you add a child, sure, it jumps to just over $13,000 - however, I don't think you want to really argue that scenario, lest ktsnake get all "down with social welfare programs" on your ass.

I'm a Republican. I'm far from rich. I believe that I have a right to earn what I keep. I don't understand why the money I make to support myself has to go to support other people so they can buy food, clothes, Nikes, Ipods and designer handbags. Why is it my job to earn money for them? I don't think anyone is entitled to health care just because they're a walking, breathing person. I honestly don't think anyone is entitled to anything just because they're a walking, breathing person. If you want services or products, go earn money and pay for them.

/Black sheep from a liberal family
/I take it back. I'm not espousing Republican views. I'm just really cheap.

What is a "higher skilled job"? Is it a Marketing Manager or a CEO or is it a Plumber or Electrician?

I don't know what it's like in the US, but here in Canada, everyone and their mother goes to University, to get that degree that will give them "higher skills", but those degrees are a dime a dozen. I know so many people that have done a B.Comm thinking they were going into the world of high financing and would be starting at a 6 figure salary. Instead, they work as a bank teller making $25,000 a year.
However, we are really desperate for skilled trades people like Plumbers and Electricians and Masons. Jobs many people think are for the lower classes, where workers don't make any money. In fact, these are the people that are making the money.

I can attest to this. Licenced plumbers make probably as much as most people with a BS or BA (or in a lot of cases, more). The trade off is working hard labor for the rest of your life.

Eek I didn't mean that a person has to go to college to be skilled. I believe that plumbers and welders and the like are skilled. They must go to trade schools or learn on the job training. I believe that "unskilled" would be places like fast food joints and the like.
On the other hand my bf is working as a trained phlebotomist (to pay for med school) and he works with blood and hazardous materials everyday and he only makes $7/ hour.

You obviously don't know many people or are an elitist that doesn't properly socialize. OK has one of the highest rates of people working for minimum wage. Almost all of those people fall below the poverty line.

And if you think that people who work for minimum wage don't contribute to society, you are sorely mistaken. Every restaurant would close, since many of those people work for less than minimum wage. The orderlies at the hospital would be gone, and I don't think that doctors would be willing to sully their hands with taking out the trash... Most jobs that are neccessary for society to keep going are minimum wage jobs. Hell, half the teachers I know have to take a less than minimum wage job just to live over the poverty line.

Minimum wage should be raised. Most small and medium businesses I've worked at pay far over minimum wage, while it's the big business box stores that pay the bare minimum. Walmart is reporting record profits, while their employees are barely making over 5.25 and are losing benefits.

Waitresses make make less then min BASE PAY, but I've waitressed before. Unless you're a crappy waitress, you make a pretty good hourly when you add in the tips. Kitchen staff also make more then min. wage.

I doubt there are ANY hospitals that pay ANY of their employees min. wage.

Name a few, besides the ones I've already told you aren't true.

There is no such thing as a "less then min. wage job" for anyone with a legal SSN.

I worked at Walmart in Highschool five years ago and I made $6.50 an hour. Fulltime employees make more then that, plus the benefits aren't as crappy as people like to make you think they are.

Most hospitals here in OK do pay min. wage for the janitorial/kitchen staff. Wait staff makes less than min. wage and shouldn't have to rely on tips as the rednecks here in OK don't usually know how to tip, the restaurant should pay minimum wage not pass the cost to the customers. Unless you've been to a cooking school, most kitchen staff makes min. wage. And as I already pointed out, waitresses make less than min. wage. Walmart might pay more in your area, however people I know, stockers and cashiers, make 5.25 full time and hardly have benefits.

It's going to get passed to the customer seither way.

FOR CHRIST'S SAKE...NO ONE WITH A LEGAL SSN MAKES LESS THEN MIN. WAGE!!

Restaruants are hardly going to change their compensation policies at this point in the game, and even if they did, they'll just pass the cost on, your $8 burger would now cost $10...so what's the freaking difference?? My husband has never been to cooking school, but cooks in a restaurant and makes decent money.

Walmart's benefits are universal. They couldn't offer more benefits to one store's employees then another stores. And their rate of pay matches the cost of living vs. skill level for that part of the country.

Why the personal attacks? Doesn't properly socialize? What do you mean? It's true that I don't really socialize with people who aren't of a similar background as myself. I think that's true of most people. Do you want me to go make some poor 'friends' so that I can claim that I properly socialize?

Your second sentence is as ridiculous as your first. I don't care how many people here receive minimum wage. According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, Oklahoma has about 4% of its population working at or below minimum wage. This of course can be largely attributed to the fact that in Oklahoma, waiters and waitresses almost without exception work for $2.35/hr. The rest of their salary is tips. In other words, if these are the stats you're relying on, they're extremely misleading.

Maybe we have too many unskilled workers? How would raising the minimum wage help our economy and help those people? I get it -- we just throw money at the problem, pay our lowest-skilled workers another couple of bucks per hour, and the problem goes away, right?

Your contentions are simply false insofar as I know. I don't know anyone at a hospital who receives minmum wage. I've already explained how your information regarding restaurant staffs was misleading. The businesses have the right to offer as much or as little as is needed to keep the positions filled and the quality of employees at a tolerable level. People who earn minimum wage have a world of options open to them. Framing houses, roof work, pouring concrete, janitorial services -- these jobs are all readily available, and they all pay well above minimum wage.

Wal-Mart doesn't even pay minimum wage. Here in Oklahoma, in a place where the cost of living about the lowest you'll find, even Wal-Mart pays at least $6.50 if not $7.00/hr to its employees. Even so, the minimum wage earners in those kinds of jobs are easily interchangable, they have no real value to the company, so why should the company be forced to pay more for the employee than the employee is worth?

Shouldn't the burden be on the employee to improve their worth??

I'd like proof that "most hospitals in OK" employ people below minimum wage - citations would be nice.

Also, I've explained already why singles who work at $5.25 are above the poverty line if they work full-time - it's only when you account for children or live-in spouses who are not employed that the issue starts. Also this is ALL taken BEFORE public aid, for purposes of definition. So . . . it appears that minimum wage is no death sentence (and yes, I'm walking you into this one).

You've written a lot, but you're not really proving anything - I'd like some support for your assertions.

They can't unless they're exempt from labor laws (and they're not).

[QUOTE=PM_Mama00]I'm afraid that you misinterpret what I said. I'm not saying to go for the expensive milk. What I meant is that things are getting expensive, thanks to inflation and the weaseling of the Bush administration. I don't remember a gallon of the most expensive milk being that high. BTW, the cheapest gallon of milk in my area is just over $2.25. Even if a person were to budget wisely, he (she) might come up on the short end of the stick when it comes to getting essentials. When a person has to get gas, the station with the cheapest gas price may be a 5 or even 10 minute drive as opposed to another station that is a 2 minute drive.

Thanks to inflation. What do you think raising min wage will do??

INFLATION

That's a pretty broad statement and I don't think you can prove it.

In fact, I know you can't.

My four year old grandchild has a legal SSN and she doesn't make anything. She costs a lot, though.

I also don't think you would have to dig too deeply to find teenagers or migrant laborers who have valid SSN's and are being paid less than minimum wage. It may not be legal, but do you really think everyone obeys the law.

I'm sorry I got started here...

Even at $8.00/hr, that's under $17,000 per year before taxes. Consider how easy it would be for, let's say a single mother with a young child to live on that.

You can talk all you want about politics and higher economics, but it doesn't help that low end wage earner. Even the fairly small inflations numbers are significant -- not to mention $3.00 per gallon gas prices. How long has it been since the minimum wage went up? How much inflation has there been over those years? During that same amount of time, how much has the profit of those small businesses everyone is so worried about climbed?

I know there are no hard answers, that every case is different, but I'd be very surprized if the percentages didn't end up favoring the businesses over the minimum wage earners.

I'm not making this a political debate or blaming Bush -- this problem pre-dates him and the Republican Congress.

People (including one of my daughters) are struggling. I really have a problem that over the course of X number of years, Congress has given itself X number of substantial raises, and I have to help my daughter with her car insurance payment -- which happened about 35 minutes ago -- because she barely makes enough to feed herself and her daughter. She works her butt off and takes no amount of public assistance.

Sorry. I think the whole debate is shameful.

As far as minimum wage goes, aren't some small businesses exempt from having to pay minimum wage, depending on how much they make or size or something? One of my summer jobs back in high school was at the hometown grocery store (employed 5 people) and they didn't pay me federal minimum wage.

And as far as cost of items goes, I'm no expert, but my guess would be that some of the reason that items might be going up in the stores could be in part, due to gas prices. A majority of your goods arrive via semi, and diesel has gone up in price over the past couple of years which has causes shipping prices to go up. Maybe I'm completely off target, but I'm going to bet that the cost for that is getting passed on to the consumer.

That's also true, but some people like that kind of work. I know Mr. Pi Phi does.

LOL!

Where do you think the restaurant gets the money to pay the minimum wage.

I'm trying to understand the minimum wage argument but it sounds to me like people are complaining about quality of life. In this country, you'd be HARD PRESSED to go without a roof over your head, food in your belly and clothes on your back. Health care is also accessible to the truly needy. What I'm hearing from people is that they want to live larger so they need more money.

It's this mentality that is causing Americans to accrue such enormous debt that they can't pay it off before their own death! It's a very sad state of affairs. Budget your money, GO WITHOUT (sacrifice seems to be a foreign concept to some folks), and you can make it.

I don't think this is true. There is a large homeless population in Denver -- I would have a very hard time believing that they're hard pressed to be sleeping in parking lots or lined up around the shelters every night.

I don't know the answers, but raising the minimum wage once in a while makes perfect sense to me -- as does a pay cut for politicians, but I suppose that's not likely.