Sorority Shopping?
 

I thought I would just write it out, because to a certain extent the idea of sorority shopping is what is causing a lot of the . . conflict . . . in this forum.

Even though no one seems to want to just come out and say it.

My understanding, in a general way, is that AI in many groups is offered to people who have some direct link to the organization.

In those cases the people are generally asked by the organization to join. So they don't really need advice from greekchat. They are alredy in contact with the organization.

I am also mindful of unusual situations like blueangel's where she pledged a group, but was unable to finish. Greekchat made her aware that it was possible to still affiliate. However, she had an existing link with an organization, she just needed to know her options and make contact with the right people.

The other group of people seeking AI seems to be those that wish to just join an NPC organization.

They may have some preferences, but they are open to membership in just about any group that offers (in order of preference of course), and end up "shopping" for a sorority . . . contacting multiple groups, often simultaneously, to see who will accept them.

A lot of the current arguments seem to be based on this last group. That appears to be what motivates people to argue how information is presented, to prevent or discourage sorority shopping.

Because after all, for people with direct links to a group, people that have been asked to join, restricting the information doesn't matter, they are already in contact.

So the big question is: Do you think that using GC as a a market to shop for a sorority, or even sorority shopping in general, is a good or bad thing?

What should be done if anything about it?

Or is it something that doesn't matter at all?

If you would review the message boards, and you clearly haven't, those seeking to join a sorority through AI don't "shop" on these boards...there is an unwritten rule that you don't mention the name of the sorority that you are seeking to join until AFTER you have been initiated. This is for alot of reasons, mainly, because it's an individual choice and isn't anyone else's business.

The other purpose of the board is to let people know that the process of AI exists and you are incorrectly ASSUMING that the only people that get to join through AI are those that are already affiliated with the organization in some way, and this is simply not true all of the time.

When I was in college, I couldn't tell you the number of women that pledged sororities, then complained weekly about all of the "work" that it took and the "hassle" of attending functions, doing required volunteer work, etc. Then when they graduate, they want something to put on their resume, and they never do anything with their alumni again.

I would wager that this is the MAJORITY of college-joiners, as Sorority Alumni organizations are often begging for others in their sorority to assist with volunteer efforts for college rushes, advisement, etc.

AI isn't easy, and it isn't a picnic...if we are permitted to join a sorority through AI, we don't have the connection that many of our new sisters will have since their freshman or sophomore years of college. It's the longest "rush" possible and can take months or years to complete.

I have been looking at only two sororities for AI...these are the SAME TWO that I would have joined in college.

If I am choosen to join through AI I don't want a badge in my jewelry drawer, or a couple of cute pictures on my wall. I want to be an ACTIVE member and not a wallflower.

Things tend to be valued more for those that have to work harder to earn it, and AI is work, it's alot of waiting, alot of hoping, and it doesn't work out for all of us.

The choice is ultimately up to the local chapter....if they don't want somoene to join AI, then they are completely within their rights not to.

Who are you to say the process should be stopped?

I think you'd lose that bet. Majorly. How insulting to say that collegians only join for something to put on our resume. Habitat for Humanity would look better on a resume then Alpha Sigma Alpha, and would have taken up WAY less time, but that's not what I (and MOST NPC women) were looking for.

THIS ATTITUDE IS EXACTLY WHY THOSE OF US WHO JOINED IN COLLEGE GET PISSED AT AIs.

I am generally not against AI, except for when ya'll make statements like this. And it really sounds like sour grapes.

AND...since we're talking about NPC Groups... A-L-U-M-N-A-E
There's only ONE NPC that can claim an Alumni.

People shop for houses, jobs, and even SOs. Why would shopping for GLOs be any different? The reasons presented so far, aren't good enough to discourage some people from sorority shopping.

AlphaFrog......
 

No, I wouldn't lose the bet. I was the only non-Greek among a large circle of friends that I had at the two colleges that I attended...and not a single one of them participates with their sorority in any way, and in my 20 year working career, I have met countless individuals that joined in college, and again, didn't participate after graduation in any way....and I live in the SOUTH! I have never met ONE. Not ONE.

I didn't join in college because I had to pay my own way through and wanted to minimize my loans and I cut every corner I could...if it didn't directly impact my degree, I skipped the expense. This pretty much left food, clothing and shelter as my expenses and I had very little to pay back when I graduated and was student loan debt-free after only 4 years of graduation.

Why do you ASSUME that those of us that didn't join in college know nothing about the Greek system? That we have no idea of the trials and tribulations...do you think the information is THAT secretive?

Yeah! You better believe alot of the sorority members complained all through college about the things they had to do....I lived in a dorm for 3 years and they had their meetings on Monday evenings and would get in large groups while they were getting ready...standing between an open doorway and an echoing hall and you could hear them complain all the way down the hall of how they 'couldn't stand' to make another trip to a nursing home or 'didn't have time' to 'fool' with tutoring at a local elementary school with at-risk kids.

I had a roommate that SLASHED HER WRISTS in the dorm bathroom because she was formally kicked out of her sorority because of a nasty rumor about something she supposedly did that was started by her boyfrriend's ex-fiance...the Greek system at the school was so powerful that she wanted to be dead rather than to continue classes with everyone knowing she had been kicked out. Thank God she survived.

I had another close friend that only took classes on Tuesdays and Thursdays while her mother was undergoing Chemotherapy for breast cancer and submitted a formal request to the Sorority to miss all of the weekly meetings on Mondays so she could be with her mother for her treatments (she had no father and her mother was single)...you know what they told her? "You need to re-assess your priorities!" She did...by de-activating. If they couldn't support her while her mother was undergoing life-saving procedures, in her mind, she didn't need them.

Now, DO I JUDGE ALL SORORITIES BASED ON WHAT I HAVE SEEN HAPPEN TO A COUPLE OF MY FRIENDS? Nope, I render these as isolated incidents with people I just happen to know....I don't know where you live or where you go to school, but around here, WHAT I SAID IN MY PREVIOUS POST IS 100% TRUE AND I HAVE DISCUSSED IT WITH A LOCAL SORORITY I HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH AND SHE HAS MENTIONED ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS DURING OUR CONVERSATIONS HOW THERE NEVER SEEMS TO BE ENOUGH HELP WITH THE SORORITY AFTER EVERYONE GRADUATES!

Please don't accept AI's into your organization if you cannot treat them with the same respect and dignity as your other members. If you harbor this kind of resentment, you would be doing them a favor.

I have to agree with a lot of this. I guess I can understand some of the PNAM's feeling attacked, but I have seen a lot of statements by PNAM's (and one intitiated AI member) that have been very disparaging towards collegians and alumnae members of sororities. :eek: Why on earth would you insult a group of people that you are trying to join?

Why do you want to join a sorority if you think so poorly of them, then?

..almost forgot
 

About the resume thing that you said wasn't true? That someone wouldn't join because of that?

It was a SELLING POINT during Rush at my college in addition to being able to get recruited for jobs after graduation by previous members and having access to a well-stocked test-bank for professors that used the same exam year after year.

MBurden, I'm trying to find the nicest way to say this...

To accuse James of not having reviewed the board adequately is uncalled for. It is obvious to me, by his post, that he has in fact reviewed the board, and has narrowed the question to a more manageable one. Instead of trying to address everything about AI, he has honed his question on the one aspect of it that, through his observations, is causing most of the commotion.

And, with respect to your attitude towards NPC alumnae, it seems as if you're the one harboring resentment, not the collegiate-initiated alumnae. So, as for your last comment, I feel like saying to you, "If you can't treat collegiate-initiated alumnae with the same respect and dignity as the AI members, then don't join. They certainly don't need your negativity."

I would agree. Disparaging remarks about sisters is usually cause for discipline in many sororities. It certainly isn't going to help you get in.

You clearly didn't read my post....one of the reasons the local sorority is interested in me for possible AI (and I should find out within the next couple of weeks) is because I plan to be an active participant and not go through the process, pay my dues, and no one ever hears from me again.

My post only stated my personal experience with the geographical area that I live in and studied in.

Just because something is a selling point doesn't mean that's the only attractive aspect. Sure, resume-building experience is a selling point of a sorority, but that's not the reason most women join. Heck, the fact that my car is silver was a selling point, but that doesn't mean that I didn't value the good engine, four wheels, airbags, etc. I didn't buy my car because it was silver, much like I didn't join my sorority because it would help build my resume.

Just because they don't participate now does not mean that they joined for no other reason then something for their resume, as you stated in your previous post. There is a ton to be gained from the college experience that has nothing to do with resume padding.

Good for you. You made your choice. I'm still paying off my college, but I'm an Alpha Sigma Alpha. I made my choice.

Who said you knew nothing about the Greek system?? I sure didn't. And yes, at times, all the commitments do get to be a pain, but they're still worth it.

This girl sounds like she had personal issues that are unrelated to Greek life.



I don't have a problem with AIs. I have a problem with AIs WITH YOUR ATTITUDE TOWARDS UNDERGRADS. If you harbor this kind of resentment toward undergrads, why do you want to be a part of the organization??

Also, if you have something on your resume and can't talk about or and what you learned from it, then it's useless. I have a huge amount of talking points about what being a sorority taught me, including how to manage people, handling a budget for a 65 member organization, etc.

I'm not trying to put on a "show" for someone or changing my opinion or attutude to 'get in'...I guess the difference is I am approaching AI from an ADULT perspective and not from a collegiate perspective.

I am not concerned in any way about where I am in the process...if it's a fit, then it will be a fit, if it's not a fit, then it was never meant to be.

I don't sit up awake at night worrying about it.

I never said it was the reason MOST women join.

Again, you didn't read my post....I CLEARLY SAID that I didn't judge all sororities about what happened to a couple of my friends...I guess you didn't take up reading in college.

I'm not posting anymore here. I don't care if I stay on the board or not...I already have the information I needed. I don't live on the board as I have a business that I have to work at every day.

Have fun everyone...time to get back to the REAL WORLD!

You didn't?


I guess my reading IS weak then, because that seems to be exactly what you said.:rolleyes:

Another thread gone bad because people want to put words into others mouths....

Soyanora.

OK, this is nit-picking, but the proper term is alumna for women, alumnae for a group of them.

For men, it is alumnus (singular) and alumni (plural). It is also alumni when speaking of mixed gender groups.

I know, but I didn't feel like going that far into it.

To get this thread back on topic, I thought I'd take a stab at James' question.

Since I'm not an AI, my opinion is probably different from those who are AI or who are pursuing AI. Having said that, I think (my opinion only, obviously) that GC can be a useful tool for simply learning which orgs are NPC, which are local, what the difference is between them, and basic info like that. Since there isn't a campus (that I know of, anyway) that houses all 26 NPCs, it is likely that potential AIs are unfamiliar with a good number of them. GC can serve as a place to educate people about which orgs are even out there.

But, to try to learn about a specific org's policy on GC is probably not ideal. Since there are lots of links here to specific NPC websites, then GC can serve as the springboard for more in-depth research about specific groups. But, again, to try to take it further than that on here is probably going to steer some people in the wrong direction.

So, I think GC is not a good place for sorority-shopping, so-to-speak, but I think it can be a good place to learn about what sororities are even "available" should one decide she wants to look around.

I don't want to even touch the second part of your question, James. I can see good and bad points to sorority shopping... I'm going to just sit on that fence until I hear more arguments for or against it.

Yes they do.

If you read the threads, you would see that many comment that they are pursuing multiple groups at the same time. THAT is shopping, plain and simple. It's irrelevent if they actually SAY what groups they are going to.

Those of us who see those comments, and are then approached by them for help are much less likely to put 100% effort into helping them.

That would be my question too......

A woman should be joining a group that she feels (or has) a connection with. If she's shopping around then she obviously doesn't have one that she feels a connection with.

Very true.

But, to play devil's advocate, a woman might have a connection with women in ABC, but may strongly support (through time, $, whatever) XYZ's philanthropy. So, her choice might depend on what she values more at the time - already established friendships with a less-than-appealing philanthropy or potential friendships built over a common dedication to an extremely appealing philanthropy.

Like I said earlier, I can see both sides. I think some women just want to join any sorority however they can. This type of "shopping" irritates me (although, I understand the argument that that's what undergrad PNMs are doing during rush; I also understand the rebuttal that all the groups are aware that they're being compared by PNMs). But, I think women can have connections to more than one group, in which case "shopping" isn't as offensive.

-I dunno... I'm still on the fence :confused:

She's going to pick a philanthropy over already established FRIENDS??????? I really hope someone wouldn't actually do that.

I support Zeta's philanthropy every year (in fact my entire alumnae chapter does). That doesn't mean that I want (or need) to be a Zeta. I support many philanthropic endeavors outside of Gamma Phi Beta, I don't depend on Gamma Phi to give me all of my community service opportunities.

My alumnae chapter's last AI has the following story (for an example). She went to a college without a greek system, and had moved around quite a bit mostly due to being in the military. She was approaching the time when she wanted to leave the military and settle down with her young family. She wanted to get involved with a women's group that could also give her opportunities to help out college aged women. She stumbled onto GC, saw that I live in her general area and approached me about it. I met with her, introduced her to some of the other alumnae in her area (a bit away from me actually) and got her coming to our events. She found some of them that she has quite a bit in common with and she lives near one of our collegiate chapters. After a number of months, she was inivited to join and the rest is history.....:D

If the NPC organizations wanted to make AI a highly publicized activity, they would do so by aggressively promoting it within their memberships and holding open house events for PNAMs.

I've said this on another thread. NPC and its member organizations werefounded for the benefit of undergraduate membership. Alumnae membership is a completely separate bag and more of a way to keep members connected through friendship, community service and keeping the collegiate arm running through long-term strategic planning and programming.

Many alumnae are uninvolved because, quite frankly, there's no compelling reason for them to stay involved. Their membership won't be revoked if they never contribute another service hour in the name of sisterhood or pay a penny to the Foundation.

Sorority shopping would be a great thing is AI was structured as a recruitment-oriented activity. It's not. AI is an honor given to a few whom the sorority believes will add prestige, honor and/or service to the sorority. Once initated, AI's are sisters. Sure their experiences are a bit different from someone who had 4 years as a college member. That doesn't mean they won't make great advisers or alumnae officers once they get up to speed on sorority policies and activities-- heck, many of the alumnae advisers and officers I have worked with over the years have had to completely re-learn their sorority ABC's because they were not actively involved in undergrad or its been years since they have been involved and things have changed.

For those telling us that collegiate members are ungrateful, lazy and complain about all of the work: here's a cookie. Tell me what college students are happy about all of the work involved in classes that they have voluntarily registered for? If someone is going to transfer to another school or break up with her boyfriend due to peer pressure, that isn't due to the organization: it is that individual's personal sense of self that should be blamed. And just because you don't know any sorority alumnae who stayed active post college doesn't mean they don't exist.

Sorority as a resume builder? You must be joking. I am loathe to put my lengthy alumnae involvement on a resume: I'm not interested in being a martyr for the "Why don't you stand up and show people your involvement?" cause. Post-college, professionals and academics view Greek life differently. The "alumnae network" is something that you seek out by making calls, emails and sending letters-- not an established party line that finds you a job with an alumna. This doesn't make me less proud of my membership-- but there is a time and a place. I wouldn't list my faith-based activities on a resume, either. Discrimination exists, and I'd rather not be passed over for a job or a program because of someone else's personal biases or in trying to make a statement for all of Greekdom.

Shame on anyone speaking poorly of our collegiate members. These girls are incredibly overprogrammed, balancing school, sorority and life (which for many includes working at a real job), and the angst that comes with being 17-24. They're learning how to be an adult, be out on their own and how to make responsible choices. I applaud them for their service, programming and activities. Like it or not, collegians come first. We were founded for the benefit of undergraduate students, and that will continue to be our focus until NPC changes their creed from "We as undergraduate members..." And we're not there yet.

Alexandra Robbins? Is that you?! I see you're working on the sequel to 'Pledged'! Can't wait! I'm shaking with anticipation!

I totally agree with and applaud this post!!! :)

LOL!!! that's great! :)

why thank you :)

Further, many groups realize that it is a saavy business move to get their alumnae involved and connected, because that is where the money is in terms of funding programming for collegiate members.

That said, there is a move in several NPC groups, just from my observation and information I have read, to focus more on alumnae membership because you will spend most of your "lifetime of sisterhood" as an alumna member. I went to a Panhellenic luncheon for a group that has more than 350 alumnae chapters versus 125 collegiate chapters--there is obviously a great focus on services for alumnae in an organization like that, and it requires an immense amount of support and infrastructure to keep it going.

So I don't wonder if, as others have suggested, that AI is becoming less rare and potentially more of a business opportunity. I know that ruffles feathers--and it ruffles mine as well because I think there have to be good, solid reasons for why you would choose a sorority over another kind of social organization--but I think is naive to think that some groups may not have considered AI as a way to improve their bottom line.

ok, when i saw the title, I thought it was about shopping for sorority related items......lol.

I think it makes sense to shop in terms of comparing different groups and seeing which fits better before you commit, ie wouldn't you do the same thing when you're looking for new shoes? You try a few on before you buy a pair.

Of course--I personally see huge business potential and revenues (and leadership/involvement!) in making huge changes in alumnae membership, including recruitment of members post-college. There are greater gains and opportunities to be made. However, the focus would need to drastically shift from collegiate and undergraduate programming to lifetime membership-- making us similiar to organizations like the Junior League. (Some leagues allow you to join at age 18. Others at age 21-- you have a few years of required active membership before moving into voluntary "sustainer" level where you have limited membership obligations-- but these are still obligations nontheless! You don't just coast on your lifetime membership.)

However, it seems that a good deal of research has gone into identifying membership trends, and we've observed that most collegiate members are likely to drop after their first year. I think right now there is much focus on improving collegiate programming to address why women aren't actively involved for all 4 years of college as they used to be (I think that has a lot to do with changes in the ways students learn, women's lib, what is considered a "traditional" student and general social change). Until the programming goes away from a primarily collegiate focus and more big-picture lifetime membership outside of "lifetime member in name only," I don't think this will be an across-the-board shift. Change is slow-- it takes a long time to implement policy changes that have such wide-scale impact (even if it is for the better), changing the members' perceptions of membership, changing the way we do recruitment, etc. The possibilities are endless.

In terms of AI, it isn't about buying or choosing. It is about being invited. NPHC membership intake can be considered similiar to this-- you research the NPHC groups and then profess your interest in ONE. You then rush that one organization. The organization then may or may not invite you to become a member.

ETA: I admire the level of alumnae activity among the NPHC groups and the way they have structured their membership. If their membership intake process is a part of this pride and involvement, there is a lot to be said for rushing one organization.

Yes, and even though I am not in an NPHC group, what I've gleaned on these boards from the posts of NPHC members, is that you'd better be bringing a lot to the table in terms of service/volunteering, good academic grades, etc.

True--- we expect that for undergraduate and graduate prospectives.

And it is also true that we expect our prospectives to be interested in joining our individual organizations, and not just one of the NPHC organizations. Again, however, this is on both levels. I could see however how a PNAM (of the NPC groups) might not think that there would be a problem "forum shopping" if they understood how rush worked on an undergrauate level.

Would you have less problems with "forum shopping" if the PNAM told the groups she was pursuing that she was interested in other groups as well???