Oh the drama
 

Just reading the drama in the AI forum right now... thought we might add our constructive two cents here. Honey, I'm not trying to start any inflammatory posts, but it does seem this is a hot button issue, and I am curious to see what the ADPi's think of this.

Oh, I've definitely been keeping up with the drama over there! I can't decide which is more exciting, the rush threads or the AI conumdrum.

Well, from what I can tell:

a. having the AI forum on GC seems to be opening up a can of worms for many NPC headquarters with questions, forms, bickering, etc, from both "hopeful PNAIs":rolleyes: AS WELL as their own members;

b. having the AI forum on GC seems to be informing women of something that they otherwise would never have known about, but that in itself is a moot point because it really, seldom, hardly ever, in 90% of the cases and sororities in question happens anyway, so it doesn't matter if they ever get informed about it;

c. having the AI forum on GC seems to be giving women, both the reasonable, active and intelligent ones as well as the "no way will you ever be a member of my organization" ones the hope/idea that they can be a member of a sorority;

d. having the AI forum on GC is right now giving mostly incorrect and incomplete information without regard for any of the NPC sororities AND without their being able to do anything about it other than following through with a correctly worded PM to a MAN :confused: :eek: and hoping that the Earp God ("No correction for YOU!" Seinfeld-style) will accept their offer/sacrifice/cowtowing and will post something halfway reasonable pertaining to their sorority that they DON'T want up anyway.

Hmm...I think that about covers it from what I can see/read. Other than that, could all this drama be at a worse possible time of the year for sororities?

Wow! I never realized how much was going on. I knew that there was a thread to get a new moderator. Some women wanted a female moderator who would attempt to give correct information (their arguement). I just kind of read the thread.

I see the good points and the bad points of the forum. But then again the same almost goes for the Rush forum. It's kind of the same thing, PNM's coming in thinking "OMG I'm totally going to get a bid" and then get severly disappointed with A) the process or B) that they didn't get a bid to the chapter they wanted.

The good is that now PNAM's know about AI. The bad is that some people are using it as a way becauase they got cut every single time they rushed in college. Unfortunately with GC we can't weed out the bad seeds. But I say that that should be up to the individual sororities the people are attempting to join. It's not up to us on GC (the internet) to start saying "no you will be a bad sister because you rushed 3 times in college and got cut all 3 times". Again, that is up to the chapter(s) they are looking at.

AI is just a very "touchy" subject. I think a bit more discretion is required with it. Some of the PNAM's have done a wonderful job, but some you shake your head thinking "WTF?".

Actually, I'm somewhat glad that this came up. I'm interested in knowing what everyone thinks, both when you read the AI thread/Forum and what you think would be a good answer. I also appreciate the tenor of the thread, a LOT!!

I was toying with asking someone who is involved with AI for a statement, for our Forum. Please consider that a possibility, too.

Honeychile, coming from someone who used to be part of the AI approvals process: I would not go so far as to make any statement about AI and ADPi on GC. If someone is going to be invited to AI for ADPi, we'll ask her. There's info on our web site for members. That's it. Anyone who calls our HQ wanting AI info will be told as much. It really isn't our place to advertise it on GC, but rather to meet women in our communities, ADPi moms, RMH volunteers, etc., that we could see as involved and active members of our AA's and chapters.

Let's remember that GC is just a public message board. We can't make any "official" statements. I think there is tendancy to not remember this at times-- what happens on GC is not the real world. We can't qualify anything anyone says. And for that matter, with the number of trolls that have been outed in the past, we truly shouldn't trust that the people we are speaking with are always who they say they are. Let's continue to use GC as a goodwill idea sharing/friendship forum and leave the statements to the official websites and organizations.

Regarding the drama: I wish Tom would just delete the whole thread.

Man I tried reading through that thread and it was just too exhausting and hateful!

FYI, I was thinking more of a statement on OUR Forum, not for the AI Forum, stating that an ADPi will invite someone who qualifies for AI to an Alumnae Association meeting, and not to bother EO.

But you are right, adpiucf - we really shouldn't be used for policy.

And WLFEO, you're right, too - that's an unholy mess! I really don't want to be dragged into it!

Anyone else feel that the thread should be deleted? How about the Forum?

I think that particular thread is a large mess. I'm not sure about the forum itself. I think it has some benefit to some people and some organizations, but is a detriment to other people/ organizations. In ADPi's case, obviously no one who "found out about AI on the internet" will get very far.
I do like what is listed by ADPi at the begining of that particular thread though. ADPi- AI by invitation only.
If you wanted to put a sticky thread here in our ADPi GC forum it could be something along that line of thought. Something like this??
"While Greek Chat is not an official source of ADPi policy, we do want to let women who are considering the Alumna Initiation process know that while ADPi does have a program, it is by invitation only. Please do not contact our International Headquarters, nor any ADPi Greek Chat members about our process. Thank you."
What do you all think?

ADPi Violet- I think what you wrote is perfect. Short, sweet, and gets the point across nicely, without any of the drama that AI seems to stir up around here (here being GC, not our forum).

I do think that thread should be deleted. I guess the forum in general is ok, but I think there need to be some more rules or guidelines for it. I used to go over there all the time, but now I avoid it like the plague.

I feel that AI is not an open membership drive like collegiate recruitment-- it's not like we need new member classes of alumnae initiate members to sustain the organization. That isn't the intent of the AI programs, and that does seem to be an NPC-wide way to approach AI.

The sub forum, however encouraging or discouraging, is really encouraging a lot more women to seek out AI on their own, and while I can't speak for other sororities-- we aren't actively persuing new alumnae members. Our programming is focused on retention from bidding to initiation to graduation to alumnae membership. Right now-- that isn't to say things might change. Nor am I slamming the program or any AI's in ADPi or any other sorority.

HOWEVER-- Those who are invited to AI are valued members and sisters, and I know in some cases some of these AI's are chosen because of their time and proximity to a collegiate chapter who lacks any onsite alumnae support (IE: Upsilon's chapter adviser, for example, is AMAZING and an AI). That is by and large not true for many of the AI's on GC, but there are enough who have flitted through to make you wonder about who's on the internet these days and why they didn't get that sorority bid the first time around.

I don't know what's so bad about moving those AI threads back into the Alum Involvement forum-- the forum is largely silent while the subforum is very active. I will go out and say that I don't think Tom is the right moderator for that particular forum at this time, and that he may need additional support for the forum.

And I know GC attracts its fair share of nutjobs here and there, but it seems the AI subforum has turned into a butterfly net for women who "find" AI for all the wrong reasons: still nursing a grudge that they got dropped from sorority recruitment 3-20 years ago and are hell bent to join.

I wholeheartedly agree. And delete the thread, by all means.

I'll say one thing about the AI thread...
Reading that thread would CERTAINLY turn me off to the thought of AI, since 95% of the NPC women posting are rude B*TCHES!


On another note, I don't care what they post about ADPi and AI. I disagree with AI, I wish ADPi did not allow it. However, people can say what they want about our sorority. Only we know what *really* goes on.

BTW
Best. Post. Ever.

adpiucf
Right, you'll actually get a lot more opportunities for service and social interaction than you will in a sorority alumnae assocation. Thank you, Blueangel, for clarifying that. We are truly indebted for your amazing wisdom and knowledge in all areas of life, especially Greek Life.
__________________
"Speak out in class. There is nothing at stake except your self-esteem."

I'm curious as to why you don't think we should allow AI? Like, I really want to know your opinion. I see the positive in it and I wanna hear from someone who doesn't see the positive in it.

Question: the thread y'all are talking about, is it the one that Tom Earp (I think it was him) that started reposting all the NPC information. It's like 24 pages long. After reading like a page and a half I got tired of reading it and stopped.

I think the problem with the AI forum is that because GC is so public that sometimes it gives off the wrong information. Women come on and see these PNAM's posting and pretty much all the women who have posted their story have had success, so they just "assume" that the same will happen to them.

I think AI is wonderful. I got to witness two AI's initiated at convention last year, it was incredibly touching. I have a friend who I think would make a wonderful sister, but her being in a different state makes it somewhat difficult to broach the subject. But that is also my opinion. Just because I think she's wonderful doesn't mean everyone else will ;).

But on the other hand I want women to be informed. Just because there are "successes" on GC, doesn't mean there are successes for everyone. (Does that make sense). Plus, I don't like that some PNAM's think the process is quick. It isn't. Some PNAM's have been doing the process for 2+ years before they get initiated (or decide not to pursue membership anymore).

I feel kind of conflicted with AI, as I'm sure I've somehow gotten across. LOL.

Yes, that's the one we're talking about.

And how bad does it *REALLY* hurt us to have inaccurate info posted on a public message board. It doesn't. I can tell people till I'm blue in the face that ADPi only AI's 300+ pound women. That doesn't make it true, and doesn't mean that anyone will believe it. Half of the crap you read on GC isn't true. EVERY year PNMs come on greek chat and get this false sense of panhellenic love. That's not true, we don't all love each other, nor every NPC sorority, but you don't see a 24 page thread about that.

I think AI is a sensitive topic because despite what a moderator posted on another thread, AI is not the wave of the future. Remember the Panhellenic Creed?

We, as Undergraduate Members of women's fraternities, stand for....

There's a key word in that statement. Undergraduate

Alumnae life offers rich opportunities for service and friendship. If you choose to partake. You could happily live out the rest of your days in service and friendship to other organizations, your sorority life a happy memory of days gone by. And it would not impact your membership status. How many college alumni are actively involved in the Golden Key Honor Society? Few. What about their university alumni association? A handful-- most in name only and a few dollars in annual dues. Will your diploma be revoked if you don't give to the university fund? Of course not. Nor will your sorority membership risk a change in status if you never again attend a chapter meeting, offer your time to a collegiate chapter or participate in the area AA's annual fundraiser.

AI is an honorary opportunity for key women in our community to become affiliated with us for our and their mutual benefit. We earn accolades for their good name and they receive the benefits of friendship and traditions of our organization. Some become vital alumnae members. Others, like many of our collegiate members-turned-alumnae, fade into the woodwork and become members in name only.

AI is not the wave of the future because sorority membership in the NPC is based on a culture that most strongly supports collegiate membership as the lifeblood in our organization. If we were to seriously re-evaluate the structure of our membership, making the alumnae phase of membership more similar to collegiate membership (obviously with fewer requirements to accomodate women's professional and family lives post-college), we might see a greater focus on AI recruitment. Until then, I see and believe that AI for our organization and for others will continue to exist as an honorary conferred upon a few women each year. We will welcome these women as our sisters and continue to promote AI within the organization and support the recruitment of those whom we could see as our sisters.

What do I see as "the wave of the future"-- recruitment and retention from Bid Day to Initiation, and from active collegiate membership to beyond graduation. I think that we, as women's collegiate organizations, are plagued across the board with challenges in maintaining long-term membership retention. Most members are likely to drop after their first year. We lose scores of seniors who could be great and involved alumnae members-- members who could make difference as alumnae-- to the uncertainty of post-college life. Seniors get apathetic. Leaders graduate, burned out. Once these concerns are stabilized (and ADPi has begun a very good job of addressing this through the Well-Balanced Person programming), then we can look toward more aggressive alumnae life opportunities and active recruitment of AI members. But that's an issue to tackle on another day. I believe-- we all believe-- in our Grand Council's ability to lead us with an ever-evolving long-term strategic plan to meet the needs and changes facing the sorority system today.

Another thought about AI is that I believe it originally started because of a need the SORORITIES had, not a need individual women have (for whatever reason:rolleyes:) . AI became necessary as NPC sororities desired to expand to campuses where their alumnae were either few, weak, or nonexistent. By initiating responsible, highly reputable women in the community, sometimes including college faculty, the sorority could ensure a stable beginning for their founding chapter. I feel this is primarily the way AI should remain-an invitation should be initiated by an NPC headquarters, a sister, or an alumnae group because of a need, or in appreciation, such as housemothers, mothers of sisters who have been extremely beneficial in assisting a chapter, etc. If the Greek system were dying, then perhaps a radical change would be necessary, but that doesn't seems to be the case. Also, most of us are
not having to deal with the problems developing because of the "approaching the sorority" method that seems to be developing. I imagine, overall, it is beginning to snowball into quite a headache through the ranks of all the NPC organizations, and Greekchat simply is helping.

(My use of the alumnae spelling is probably incorrect, but I'm too lazy to look it up.)

I think that a lot (if not all) of what many of you all are saying is true. The Seventies was a very lean time for sororities and fraternities (supposedly, whenever there's a Democratic President, greek life is not as desirable as when there's a Republican President, but I don't have the reference with me), so initiating respectable women to act as Advisors, etc makes perfect sense. It's the women who were inititated in the Seventies and Nineties who seem to be the vanguard of the Advisory Boards.

Can we PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, not start this argument... This isn't true.

I just wanted to add onto this that AI is also employed in some cases, where women have been doing a lot of work for the sorority already (as AOIIAlum called it, "sisters without badges") and those are women that you probably would find desirable as initiated members.

I am sure your AI sisters appreciate your saying that.

Just as you do, she has the right to express her opinions.

ETA: There are plenty of women across the sorority system who don't like the idea of AI. There are others who do. It's a matter of preference. Seeing as one person doesn't make the decisions, who likes/doesn't like is pretty irrelevant.

Thanks goodness we have that right! Where would GC be without it?

I skimmed the AI thread and find that it is afflicted with the same hatefulness that has pervaded many of the GC threads. I'm disappointed that the forum, which could be a place for AI's to post their experiences (like many threads in the Rush forum), has become a place to ruthlessly attack a fellow Greek who volunteered to do a thankless job. While Tom was probably a bad choice from go, he was well intentioned. (I'm very glad that I didn't see any of our letters below any of the disparaging remarks!)

I think the AI forum should be for posting experiences of PNAM's *only* and definitely not for GLO's to provide information on AI.

I definitely agree with adpiucf. AI is not something I think should be discussed on GC. GC is a public message board and AI is something that, from my understanding, is very rare in our sorority and should be treated just as collegiate membership selection is.

After reading all the other posts, I pretty much agree with everything else she said.

In my own opinion, it seems like GC creates a sort of marketplace for AI and that is not what the AI program was intended for. AI was intended to honor exceptional members of the community, volunteers, etc. Just my .02

Do I hear a lion roaring? This would make for an interesting thread elsewhere...

Obviously this is my perception, but at convention I attended a training and from the sounds of it they were trying to get more information across about AI. Like, to make more alums aware that yes AI happens and kind of what happens. Now, my perception of it was that ADPi wanted more alums to be aware so that it could be an avenue for women to consider (albeit via an ADPi inviting someone, not a PNAM contacting ADPi).

Now, I may be completely wrong, but that was just my perception.

I think, like I said earlier, GC has given women alot of false hope of joining a sorority. AI is nothing like formal recruitment. Like I said, PNAM's come on to this board, seeing a lot of women getting into their "houses" and they kind of expect it. Does that make sense?

No one should "expect" to be in a sorority? Again, not sure if I am making sense or not, my brain is kind of in "la la" land.

Sorry, I never even saw this. The reason I diagree with AI is because I know two ADPi AIs and they haven't done a SINGLE thing for or with the sorority or the alumnae association since they were initiated.

AI is rare. I'd hate to think that there could be this many "bad apples" in such a small group. Imagine if the group were larger.

Why don't we set a time & date (Wed? Thurs?) to discuss this elsewhere? We are never going to fully agree on what we should or shouldn't do - and as adpiucf says, it's not for us to make policy - but we should know what WE as an active Forum feel should be posted or not.

Anyone else up for it?

If so, please suggest some times/dates, preferably this week.

I'm around tonight - anytime after 7EDT. Tomorrow I am around after like 8PM EDT.

I think our debating about our own AI process or alumna initiates themselves is something that should not be done here. It's not a matter of not respecting anyone's opinion, it's a matter of promoting a positive public image of ADPi.:)

:D it's all good. I'm sure I would feel the same way about it if I too knew some AI's who aren't active. I'd probably be thinking "why did you go through this long, tedious process to not be active?"

I think it's fine...


But... I've seen us "debate" and I have to say, this thread has been highly nice (I can't think of the word I'm looking for. I just got up). No one is attacking, we're just listening.


I definately think a sticky should go on our forum and should say something like adpi*violets recommended.


I mean right now at 5:40am AZ time, I'm thinking the thread is okay here, but by the end of the day I could be thinking "hmm maybe this thread isn't okay and we should discuss this elsewhere". Does that make sense?

If we discuss this tonight, I think the site Brianna set up is the better place to do so.

I don't have access to the site you're talking about. But I will say again that we have no business posting any official sorority policies as a sticky on Greek Chat. An exception would be the sorority policy regarding content on the Internet.

We have the responsibility to enforce our policies, yes, but posting as a general FYI, no. That is why we have an official sorority web site with the most up-to-date information for our members. Thanks for letting me express this opinion.

adpiucf- pm me your email address and I can invite you to the group, you'll then get and email and a link.

Virtual Violets has a yahoo chat. So you could definately use that.