We didn't hang that flag, say fraternity/Greenville, NC
 

Yes I went to ECU and this makes me wanna holler....

http://www.reflector.com/local/conte...4_06_flag.html

We didn't hang that flag, say fraternity

By Jennifer White
The Daily Reflector

Friday, August 04, 2006

Members of Pi Kappa Phi fraternity said they were not responsible for displaying a Confederate flag Saturday during a march on East Fifth Street.

Several Greenville community groups marched from Greensprings Park to Greenville City Hall to support renaming East Fifth Street to honor Martin Luther King Jr.

As they walked by, five white men stood in the doorway of a house at 703 E. Fifth St., and one yelled, "Fifth Street rules!" A Confederate flag was displayed on the upstairs balcony.

The Rev. Ozie Lee Hall Jr. sent letters on Wednesday night to Greenville City Manager Wayne Bowers, East Carolina University Chancellor Steve Ballard and the CEO of Pi Kappa Phi fraternity asking them to investigate the incident.

The men involved had not been identified as members of Pi Kappa Phi, but pictures taken of the house during the march show a vehicle with a Pi Kappa Phi sticker in the front yard. One of the men in the photograph also was wearing a Pi Kappa Phi T-shirt.

Scott Wagoner, 24, Pi Kappa Phi vice president and an ECU senior, said that no members of Pi Kappa Phi were involved in the incident.

"The Beta Phi chapter of Pi Kappa Phi is outraged by the association implicated with the trouble-makers during Saturday's march," he said.

ECU senior Dan Apelian, 21, a Pi Kappa Phi member, lives in one of four two-bedroom apartments at the house where the incident took place. He said he was not involved in displaying the flag or yelling at marchers.

"Pi Kappa Phi has a couple black fraternity members, so it's bothering me when they're calling me up and saying, 'Did you hang a Confederate flag?'" he said. "What it stands for to me is racism. They're (the black fraternity members) my best friends. I would never do that."

Apelian said he was at home Saturday when neighbors knocked at his door to tell him about the march. They said they were going to hang a Confederate flag from the house's upstairs balcony, he recalled.

Apelian declined to get involved, he said. He explained Thursday that he's lived in the apartment for two months and does not know his neighbors well. He added they are not affiliated with the fraternity.

"I don't want my windows getting broken and my house getting trashed, so I just went inside," Apelian said. "I wanted nothing to do with it."

Hall said he is considering filing a formal complaint about the incident with the U.S. Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division or the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

"The Confederate battle flag, coupled with the derision and epithets, was alarming to many of the marchers," Hall said in a letter. "It is well-known that the flag is used as a symbol by some white supremacist hate groups."

To investigate? Like this is a criminal act? Ridiculous.

I would understand if it had been a Nazi flag- and that's what I honestly thought upon first reading it.

But a Confederate flag? It stands for the heritage of the South. It is not automatically stating "down with (insert group here)".

Derision and epithets are a sign of hatred. A Confederate flag is not.

Humor me....
 

So the whole intent/purpose of doing this (hanging the flag/yelling like an idiot) was for what?? Obviously whomever hung the flag during this event has a differing opinion from you two as to what it means. Afterall, I don't recall the flag meaning "we support Dr. King".....but then again, I am from Mississippi so maybe we missed that version.

Anyway, I do think that an "investigation" should not be done. It's not illegal to be an idiot or to lack common courtesy.

What exactly is the crime here?

Free speech?

No big news, free speech has been relatively destroyed.

In my opinion, and experience, confederate flags are often used as a sort of protest. It isnt white power or anything, but rather a response to something they feel is unjust. For example, similar things happened regarding Atlanta renaming Hartsfield to Hartsfield jackson. I'm sure sometimes it is from racism, but sometimes I think it is simply rebellion.

hartsfield jackson :rolleyes: Dont even get me started. ridiculous.

If anything, it was tasteless and incencitive and that is all.

There is more than one CFS Flag, but the Stars and Bars is the one that is brought up and that was not actually the True CFS flag, but as some may call it a battle flag only.

Because of the PCness of todays dogma, it is not possible to Honor the Soldiers who fought and died from the Southern States.:(

NO, it is not the Nazi Flag but stood for beleifs of peoples of this country, not the beleifs of a demented person against all races who were not Aryan in the words of Adolph.

Do judge a Fraternity because there was a car setting there with a PKA window sticker in the window of a car and blaming them is uncalled for.

If it is a boarding house where many people stay, get the facts first and last.

Not judge first!:mad:

what a stupid investigation.

these kids should stop back-peddling and stick to their guns. if that's how the feel, that's how they feel.

And this is why I fly Bonnie Blue.

The light blue Confederate flag? I didn't know it had a name.

Haha, we fly bonnie blue too. Much less controversy, and those who care about the south, know what it is.

Wow - God bless this country!

Only in America can the losers of a war, especially a war of rebellion and secession still fly their "battle" flag and it be proclaimed as "heritage". My take on the Battle flag has always been the same - if it wasn't about prejudice, bigotry and hate, why didn't you start flying it until the Civil rights movement got started - if it was really about heritage, you would have flown it for the last 141 years instead of just the last 46. That's why I have no problem with people dressing in Confederate uniforms and celebrating their heritage that way, but, in my humble opinion, waving the Battle flag is an act by people who know they are trying to start a confrontation.

Free speech only goes so far. Does this pass the line - i don't think so, but it's obvious that the people that did it knew what they were doing and why they were doing it.

*sigh* insensitive, stupid, and generally rude. What reaction did they think they were going to get from the community? The fraternity (or whever did this) shouldn't be surprised at the uproar.

I was always shocked to see people in SCOTLAND wearing confederate flag belt buckles...turns out they just wore them because of country music, which is getting really big in the UK. I asked one guy about it in a pub one night, and he said (in a mixed Derry/fake Texas accent), "Aye! Isn't that the side that won?"...umm...not really.

Or perhaps they started flying it out of rebellion, as I said before. People get sick of having black pride shoved down their throats. Every town in the United States doesnt need an MLK blvd. I get a little angry when somebody, as mentioned above, like Maynard Jackson gets his name put on the worlds busiest airport. The flags of the confederacy have become both a rallying point for southern pride and a flag to use in protest. I heard somebody mention a while back about how the NCAA is considering expanding a ban on championship sports in SC, because the flag makes black people uncomfortable. To be honest, walking through underground Atlanta and having black power stuff everywhere doesnt make me comfortable, but I have to live with it. Having to drive through an urban public housing district known for violence doenst make me feel very welcome either, but I'm not trying to get the government to burn them down. Those flags are part of our history. They arent put up for black people, they're put up for us. Much of black culture isnt for whites either.

Also, to the PKP person, absolutely God bless this country. I hope God also continues to bless the south and the southern way of life. Thankfully this is part of the country that still encourages kindness, responsibility, family, and faith in God.

For many African-Americans, the Confederate flag is just as offensive as a Nazi flag would be to the Jews. I am sure that there are still some Germans who feel that the Nazi flag also represents part of their heritage, so using your argument, they (current Nazi-Germans) can also feel justified in displaying it.

While I do agree that the Confederate flag does / can represent the heritage of the South, part of that heritage was based on slave labor. Slave labor of my ancestors. So no, you won't see me running around flying the Confederate flag. I also view the Confederate flag as a sign of hatred because it is usually carried by the KKK.

And, this being the US, I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it, because one day, I may want to say something too.....;)

^Good call.

On a side note, another flag usually carried by the KKK looks like this

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/klan1960.jpg

Most Southern states did start flying the battle flag or adding it to their state flag out of rebellion in the late 1950s and early 1960s to oppose desegregation - all the reason to stop trying to use the excuse of heritage!

I agree that every town in the US doesn't need a MLK boulevard - so, which ones do? Who decides? Is it just where he's lived, or where he marched? IS Dr. King only supposed to be a hero to black people or Americans of every color, creed and religion?

I agree that Mayor Jackson's name doesn't need to be on the airport when he wasn't even the best black mayor in the history of Atlanta.

The NCAA told SC that they might not come to the state for Championship events due to the battle flag because of the fact that the only reason it flew and had flown since the 1960s is to call for a return to segregation.

But, "black pride" isn't shoved down anyones throat any more that "white pride" has and had been shoved down the throats of this country for the last 200 years while the work and the work product of other groups has been ignored.

So the fact that white pride was wrongfully shoved down people's throat is a good reason for us to do it now with black culture?

Also, simply because state's didnt bring back the flag until the 50s and 60s doesnt mean it wasnt flown. Lets be honest, if you had lost a war, gone through the difficult and terrible times of reconstruction, it would probably be a while before anyone wanted those flags flown again. The civil rights movement started, and the flags went up again. I think that instance was like the civil war...was some of it racist? Absolutely. Was some of it also a protest for states rights? Yes.

that's why i left the Klan out of this - they are not just Southern - seeing that the biggest Klan base for most of the 20th Century was in Indiana - and they are just idiots, they hate everyone unless you are pure white protestant and can prove "no mongrel blood"

shiner, regardless of what anyone says, you're OK - a little crazy sometime, but you when you put your thoughts in clear concise points you tend to make sense.

What do you mean when you say "black pride shoved down your throat" everywhere? Serious question. I mean, the last time I check MLK was not just a "black" leader but a leader of human rights for everyone that was oppressed as well. And saying that because lots of cities with a street names after MLK is an example of this is like saying white power is shoved down the throats of blacks because every city has streets named after US presidents that owned slaves. Ri-di-cu-lous on all points.

Southern pride is not mutually exclusive to just whites and it bugs me to know when people try to pass it off like that (or maybe just in the mind of those that long for days of the pre-civil rights era which gives southerns a bad name). Kindness, responsibility, family, and faith in God isn't inherent in a "white" south, but the south period.

I appreciate that. While I truly hate forced diversity and a lot of popular black culture, I also hate white trash. I have some pretty serious issues with much of what the black community's leadership does, and nothing ruins my often very legitimate arguments like some uneducated redneck spouting hateful drivel.

you're absolutely right that the battle flag was probably flown by individuals for the last 200 years - how the losers get to keep flying their flag is beyond me.
As for the states rights issue, the rights they were upset about violated the Constitution - what are we, are we Americans or are we illinoisians or Virginiains or Carolinians - the rights of the Union should be held first when it comes to the rights of man.

i really don't think that forced diversity is always the way to go - but i will say that we probably could learn a lot from each other if we got past the hate.

I'm sorry, but every town I've ever been in had an MLK street. Not every one had a Washington or a Jefferson street or high school. That being said, MLK wasnt really what I was saying regarding shoving black culture down our throats. Living in Atlanta, I'll go back to the Maynard Jackson thing. A LOT of people were extremely pissed off about that. I have no problem with an MLK blvd (although most i've been on were kinda scary). Another issue I remember people getting upset about was Rosa Parks lying in state. There are plenty of things, black history month, celebrations of "diversity," etc...that just get annoying for white people. Like blacks, we get really tired of having everything made into a racial issue.

PK, the Constitution never said anything about integrating your restaurant, ala, lester maddox.

Which is why, although I would never live in Mississippi again, I proudly claim it as my home.

What is your point? I'm not denying black Americans had a significant role in southern history, but obviously white southern culture did as well. The confederacy is a part of that.

You know what shinerbock-- sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Sometimes people are not attacking you. In fact, I often make it a point NOT to respond to you because I realize that it would be an exercise of futility on my part. You believe what you believe, and I believe what I do. I have no desire to bicker on a message board.

That being said, I was JUST agreeing with the point that Honeykiss made. I claim Mississippi as my home, although I now live in D.C., because I am proud of the Southern values that I received there... like generousity and kindness.

Sorry but I really think its people like yourself that makes things into a racial issue. So far in this thread, you have been the only one to bring up personal experiences of what you deem to be "racial issues" of how whites have it so bad. I'm sorry but MLK and other celebrations just don't wash with me and to really use them as examples is sad case of grasping at straws.

I mean, goodness sake, I currently live in Kansas where there is NOTHING remotely close to the word "diverse" here but common sense tells me that it isn't "the white man" shoving his culture down my throat. I could sit here and whine about how Ocktoberfest and Columbus Day parades and claim that they are annoying examples of "white pride" (using your logic) but common sense tells me that isn't the case.

Your real problem seems to be where you live. Hey, if you're looking for something that is more suitable for your taste, come to Kansas.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall reading somewhere that some black families in the South do fly the confederate flag as a tribute (for lack of a better word) to the South's history.

Jessi, that wasn't against you, it was about the original quote. I don't know how to get a partial quote into the little box.

I don't know any and have never met any, but that doesn't mean that there may not be a small minority who do.

Once again, its not MLK as much as other things. Maynard Jackson, in my opinion, was a racist. Against white people. I fully support the black community when they are fighting against real prejudice and when they are also trying to help themselves. For example, that march where black men walk their children to school, great idea. Regarding Kansas, I dunno, I just need to get out of Atlanta.

About the black people flying confederate flags, I think its pretty rare. I've seen it in a few cases, but its the old school small farm black folks who are truly southern and have been in the area for years and years.

Quote the original poster, and then delete the unwanted portions. Just make sure the Quote/End Quote remains.

We can debate the value of the Confederate flag until we all turn purple. If I'm not mistaken there is a fraternity there that actually flies the flag in their front yard. As an ECU alum I think what bothers me more is the street that they are choosing to rename!!! E. 5th St. is a main road through campus. Does anyone know what portion they are looking to rename? E. 5th runs right in front of campus and covers several sorority house and well-known bars. I can't see changing the name of a street with so much history on it.

Shinerbock,
can you offer anything, specifically, that Maynard Jackson did to be labeled a racist in your opinion? ...specifically.

Maynard Jackson was an esteemed and well-loved fraternity brother of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc., whose work on this earth did much to advance Atlanta as a city and the south as a region.

to those who did not know of Bro. Jackson's accomplishments and care for an unbiased view, read on:

Maynard Holbrook Jackson, Jr. (March 23, 1938 – June 23, 2003) was an American politician, a member of the Democratic Party, and the first African-American mayor of Atlanta, Georgia, USA. He served three terms, two consecutive terms from 1974 until 1982 and a third term from 1990 to 1994.

Jackson graduated from Morehouse College in 1956 when he was only eighteen. After attending Boston University law school for a short time, he held several jobs, including selling encyclopedias, before attending the North Carolina Central University law school, graduating in 1964.

He helped rebuild Hartsfield International Airport to modern standards, which was renamed Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport in his honor shortly after his death. He was also mayor when MARTA began rapid transit service in Atlanta, and when Atlanta won as host of the 1996 Centennial Summer Olympics in September 1990. His term as mayor also coincided with the Atlanta Child Murders case, in which he played a prominent role.

He died of cardiac arrest at an Arlington, Virginia hospital after suffering a heart attack at Reagan National Airport in June 2003. He is buried on commons ground at Oakland Cemetery, on a plot dedicated by the City of Atlanta.

Jackson was a member of Alpha Phi Alpha, the first intercollegiate Greek-letter fraternity established for African Americans.

many times without the hood.

True. But, these people are also Americans, and that flag, the American flag, represents their right to protest and free speech. My ancestors and past and current family members have fought and died to protect their, meaning the KKK's, right to demonstrate as they want. A little thing called freedom.

The Confederate flag did no such thing. Part of the heritage that the Confederate flag represents is one of oppression and hate where freedom for a certain ethnic group was not allowed.

You're brilliant.