Greek Pin Website
 

Hi everyone! I don't know if this has been posted before but I wanted to let you know that there is a website www.fratpin.com which has all different GLOs' pins for sale. I tried emailing her and all I got was nasty attitude. She's also on ebay as hbrieholmes.
I wanted to let everyone know that she's not to be trusted and she's out to make a profit.

Fraternal Love
Jamie

Beta Sigma Phi and Alpha Sigma Alpha 'till I die!!!

Totaly agree with you on Heather H.

She bought the web site from Gunther and her prices are sky high.

I have seen what she has paid for many badges and at least doubles the price.

She continually bids on ebay but only low prices normaly and then puts out at exteemly high prices.

I suggest everyone lets her stew in her own juice.;)

I believe she's greek (I think I remember which one but am not going to say in case I'm wrong). I think some people on here know her though. We've had a few dealings with her.

I know which one. *blush* I tried to talk to her reasonably, but to no avail. I quote, "she who has the deepest pockets win."

I wish people would quit supporting that site.

Her website is a business and the idea of any business is to sell things for more than you paid for them, otherwise you'd be out of business.

Anyone can spend hour upon hour searching ebay and perhaps getting something at a lower price. But if you don't want to do that, you can go to her site, where all the pins are lined up and ready to go. Naturally, you will pay a premium for the convenience and for her doing a lot of the work for you.

I suppose if I went into any store and demanded they sell me merchandise for what they paid for it, I'd get an "attitude" also.

That's what I thought.......

I see your point, but how difficult is it to order your pin through your HQ? At least you know what you are getting and you are not paying a premium price.

I remember the excitement I had when I ordered my pin through my HQ. Waiting for it made it that more exciting, and when it finally arrived!!! OH!!!! I was the happiest girl in the world!!
:D

Without going into something that not anyone else's business, these pins are not hers to sell. Each time she does, she (or any other ADPi doing so) proves that their word is not to be trusted.

New members HAVE to order through our IH unless they get an exception to wear a relative's badge.

I'd agree.

Buying them to collect them is one thing. Buying them to turn around and sell them for profit is a whole different thing.

Wrong. I recently made the mistake of ordering a Lambda Chi Alpha badge from the Balfour/BurrPat/MastersofDesign/Herff-Jones monopoly for $120 and received a piece of junk that looks like plastic and tested at only 8 karats.

It's absolutely deplorable the crap they're pawning off on our new members, and that company serves (and I use that term lightly) 98 fraternities and sororities.

I'll do my shopping on ebay where you can find a nice vintage badge in 10 or 14K, often for $50 - $75. You will not find workmanship like that today.

You all should be glad that sellers on ebay are listing older pins. It's the only way you're going to get a quality badge. Stop griping and whining about it for crying out loud, and buy one to give to a new member.

Jono

Ouch!!! Well, this is your opportunity to make an important change in your fraternity. For a brief time in my sorority we had a similar problem with our badges. Who ever we contracted with were sending out these wafer thin pieces of gold that barely held the pearls. Many members complained and we changed companies - after the membership spoke up about it!!! Do the same, make some changes.
;)

No, it's the same thing because you can't have a buyer without a seller, and you can't have seller without a buyer, and if somone makes a profit that's good because fewer pins will be melted down. To say a buyer is right and a seller is wrong is illogical.

Sigmadiva,

Thanks for the advice. I will certainly look into changing manufacturers, but as far as I can tell, Herff-Jones is the only game in town - a virtual monopoly. Do you know of other makers? Who makes your badges?

Jono

We just switched to Master of Design. Since I already have my badge, I don't know how their quality is. I guess my only other suggestion would be to look into it. You (or your org) may have to do some shopping around, you all may even have to go to a lesser known jeweler that can give the quality that is desired. Herff-Jones may seem like a monopoly, but I'm certain you can find someone else. Who exactly, I don't know.

I think the point is holding the pin with dignity for your fellow GLO's. Why do you think there are so many posts, pin rescuers, and the like? There are collectors who use their pins for educational purposes. I love my Beta Sigma Phi pin collection and I use it to teach the pledges. Those pins are a source of pride. Do you want to see your pin being sold for money rather than being revered? That's the point.

If you don't like the way your pins are being made, talk to your Nationals and help fix the problem rather than ranting here! Use the energy for something worthwhile!

Dunno how I feel about this site. On one hand I'm sad to see them sold like this, but at the same time, I wonder if this site might be a way to recover one of my org's pins.

I'm pretty sure Phi Mu uses Masters of Design. I love my badge, but one semester our Phis got shitty looking badges. I can't remember if they were ordered wrong, or if it was the company. They ended up getting new badges. I think our badges cost maybe $30 or so... I don't remember them being too expensive. I'd love one of those jeweled ones, but there's no way I'm paying $300 to someone who has no right to be selling a Phi Mu badge.

We use Burr-Patterson, part of the Herff Jones empire. I know there was a problem a few years ago with complaints about the quality of badges, but I think that was resolved, with replacements being provided.

So this is all the same company? Who bought who? Why don't they just go under one name and be done with it?

So far as I know, Balfour and Masters of Design are still separate companies. Herff Jones bought Burr Patterson & Auld and maintains that mark for its Greek Division.

Masters of Design bought someone else but I can't remember who it was. But it was the company who used to do our badges (did my 1988 one) which is how we now have MoD. Burr is separate but I thought there were only two companies who did them.

But I am far from an expert.

MoD bought Pollack........(my brain hasn't completely failed):D

All have been bought up over the years, and the quality has gone down!:(

Balfor has of course been bought out, Burr-Patterson and Ault has also been purchased and now, it is down to I beleive Herf-Jones in Providence, R I.

I cannot remember all of the Pin Companys, but the quality has gone down and the price has gone up!:(

Of course The GLOs make a % but I am not sure how much, maybe you can help me out with this?

The way I understand it MoD bought the remnants of Balfour (hence the "Legacy" division) and you say they bought Pollack too. Herff-Jones bought BurrPatt and MoD. So now it's all one. Check out their website. It's Herff-Jones - Legacy - Burr Patterson.

http://www.hjgreek.com/index.cfm?FromSite=ld

Jono

LOL, got the catalog of Herrf-Jones in the mail today.

Still had Burr-Pat on the catalog listing but Herff-Jones on the envelope! Providence, R I!

Dang, need to go to store in morning and keep that!:)

When I got my badge in 1988 too! it was from Pollack. I still have the original case it came in from the company, somewhere......

Sigma uses MoD and when I got my badge in 97 the quality was pretty good. I have never lost any pearls. I am not sure how the quality is these days, but I have not heard any complaints.

I'm a little confused. I'm finding separate websites for Balfour and Masters of Design. Balfour seems to mainly be rings now. But neither websites give any indication of a connection with Herff Jones. The Masters of Design website says it is "A Cookson Company" (here is Cookson's website).

ETA: About Herff Jones clarifies it somewhat.

With the acquisition of Burr Patterson & Auld in May 2004 and the addition of the former Legacy Division of Masters of Design, Herff Jones has proudly enhanced its 85-year commitment to quality collegiate recognition products and emblematic jewelry excellence.

Since its founding in 1920 by Harry J. Herff and Randall H. Jones in Indianapolis, Indiana, ironically then both employees of Burr Patterson, Herff Jones has considered the fraternal jewelry market as a desirable addition to its growth plans in the venerable and deeply traditional collegiate market. The deep-seeded historical connections of the three companies were further intertwined when Lloyd G. Balfour, a former salesman with Burr Patterson, founded the L.G. Balfour Company in 1913, and whose ultimate successor became Legacy when it acquired Balfour’s former Fraternal Division in 1994.

Now part of a rapidly growing and well supported Herff Jones College Division, Legacy and Burr Patterson have combined their respectively rich histories, loyal customers, intricate trade skills, and highly experienced management teams to create a newly formed and largely autonomous Greek Division of Herff Jones. Our Greek Division is wholly dedicated to meeting our customers’ highest expectations for fine craftsmanship, reliable order fulfillment, and uniquely personal, proactive service.

So apparently Master of Design still exists, but it sold the Greek related part of its business, which had earlier absorbed Balfour's Fraternal Division. Some Googling makes me think J.O. Pollack Co. hasn't been bought, though.

I don't know about other GLO, but I know that if you want to buy an older badge from Gamma Phi you can contact IHQ and get a "refurbished" one. That's what I did after my original was stolen at Convention in Palm Springs (by a maid or something I'm sure - certainly not a sister!)

Powerful accusation. Was any of your other jewelry missing?

I'd agree... not only that, but there is a possibility that maybe it was lost while she was there or misplaced it on her own.

I'm just saying because not too long ago, I misplaced a very important necklace of mine and I couldn't find it by "retracing my steps"... I went through every possibility (or what I thought was every possibility) .. maybe I left it at my old place? maybe it was on the table and i accidently threw it out... maybe someone took it? And it turned out I just packed it in a place I didn't remember.

It may take forever but there's a reason for getting such things through NHQ.

It's not like those flimsy pins you can get at random 'nalia vendors.

Oh, it was stolen. It was in my luggage in my room. Perhaps if I had been at home it would have been easy to misplace, but at convention I was either wearing it or it was in its case. When I reported it I was told to go check out the pawn shops because apparently it was a fairly common occurence. Since I didn't live in Palm Desert, or Springs, that was that. This was in 1988 - before the internet and e-bay! I have it registered with our Crescent Catchers, so I'm hoping someday it shows up again. I'd hate to think it was melted down.!

My recycled post:
I guess my thoughts are, no, I don't really like it to see GLO pins for sale....that being said, if a Collector is buying a pin because they think it's beautiful and to be admired...well, then I can take some consolation in that, that they are valuing the pin and appreciating its beauty.

However...if someone is buying a pin with the intention of WEARING IT and misrepresenting themselves as an initiated member of that organization, then that is wrong.
:)

I don't know about the policies of anyone else's organization, but it is completely in violation of Alpha Gamma Delta's badge disposition policy for these badges to appear on eBay.

Badges are property of Alpha Gamma Delta, and we as members purchase a lifetime lease on the badge - not the badge itself. Upon death of a sister, there are two options - badge can be buried with the deceased, or badge should be returned to IHQ. Anyone who sells an Alpha Gamma Delta badge is selling something that is quite simply not theirs to sell. (No one other than IHQ has the right/legal ability to sell an Alpha Gamma Delta badge, because only the sorority truly owns the badge.)

I'm sure the problem arises primarily when a sister passes away and the family is not aware of her wishes (to either be buried w/her badge or in the alternative have the badge revert back to IHQ). Which is, of course, why any member should be aware of their own GLO's badge disposition policy and make sure that family members are aware of what to do upon your passing.

(Our official policy is here, on the public portion of our website: http://www.alphagammadelta.org/content/about/badge.htm )

Ebay will take down auctions that are objectionable. I wonder if pointing out that those badges are essentially "stolen" property would get them removed from ebay?

Hmmn...that's a good point. Regardless of whether the seller got the pin through what they thought was a legitimate business deal, they really didn't. It does make you wonder what eBay would do in that situation. :confused:

(If I were leasing a car or a house and tried to "sell" it to you, we'd both certainly end up in hot water. Of course, there's more of a paper trail on that sort of thing with registered titles and such. ;) )

I wonder if any other GLO's have a similar policy to our life lease vs. ownership?

While some may not, some go get them through legitiment purchases.

What ever any GLO professes, they can become available, and they can come on eBay.

Threats to a person is not a good way to promote Greek love!

I have had some and will not put up with it!:mad:

I normaly try to buy My Fraternity Badges as I have those for History sake for My Chapter.

I have also found homes for some of the others that I purchased and put them on ebay at a decent price to be returned to those members. At least what I paid for them which is and few between.

Some may complain, but, it is not going to do much good!

Either buy them or do not complain.

Sorry.

It's a nice idea, unfortunately Alpha Gamma Delta's policies don't apply to the rest of the Free World. Your policies are only valid within your own organization.

Even assuming you could ban the sale of badges on ebay, each seller's main recourse would be to melt the them down as scrap gold.

Maybe that doesn't bother some people, but it bothers the hell out of me, and it should bother anyone who has lost a badge and hopes to one day recover it.

Jono

You may have overlooked the part where I mentioned that we lease (not own) our badges. Not sure if any other GLO has a similar policy, but I specifically signed a document when I took possession of my badge about it being a lease (not a purchase).

Using a non-Greek/non-badge analogy: You own a rental company. I rent some power tools from you to do some projects around the house. I (or my family) sell the tools to a neighbor down the street. The neighbor in turn lists and sells the tools on eBay. The person who purchased the tools on eBay assumes that he made a legitimate purchase. But that doesn't mean that the purchase actually was legitimate, since you are the rightful owner of the property. Does the purchaser of the tools on eBay have a right to claim that the lease agreement between myself and your rental company is irrelevant to them and "doesn't apply to the rest of the free world?"

Now, I realize that it wouldn't be practical or feasible (in terms of manpower and cost involved) to take action against the sellers of all these badges. And I'd imagine this is why GLOs haven't done this already. But just because a group recognizes that they can't recoup all of the improperly obtained badges out there does not mean that the people who are engaging in the transactions are conducting legitimate business. You can't sell something that isn't rightfully yours - in another analogy, you could purchase a home and reasonably assume that the title is now legitimately yours. Then, lo and behold, it turns out that the title wasn't actually clear and someone from 4 transactions ago still has a legal claim to what you thought was your home. (Which is, of course, why people purchase title insurance for protection.) Just because items are being sold and purchased doesn't mean that the people involved in the transactions are the rightful owners...and while it may not be feasible to follow up on the improperly obtained badges, it doesn't make it right.