Are recs obsolete?
 

I am a firm believer in using sponsor forms - alums (not collegians) sending them and chapters paying attention to them. Personally, I think sponsoring is even more critical now that new member periods are short.
it.
But with Facebook pages available on the one hand, and schools demanding more privacy on the other, is sponsoring new members obsolete?
What do you think?:confused:

oh, i don't think so. the significance may change, but i feel they are still inportant. just as a great letter of recommendation from a hs teacher might help get your application a closer look at a prestigious college,so a great recruitment recommendation may get you a closer look from a sorority.

last night, a friend who is a member of another sorority and i were discussing how important a recommendation can be, based on the release figure protocol that came out three years ago from npc. her sorority emphasized that with the release figures that some chapters must use, a well written recommendation may just get the pnm the invitation back so that she can dazzle them with her personality and accomplishments, thereby getting another invitation.

[QUOTE=FSUZeta]oh, i don't think so. the significance may change, but i feel they are still inportant. just as a great letter of recommendation from a hs teacher might help get your application a closer look at a prestigious college,so a great recruitment recommendation may get you a closer look from a sorority.[QUOTE]

I totally agree with this, but at the same level do we miss great women because the system (when recs are vital to getting 2nd round invites) requires a bit of knowledge? I like/support the idea of recs as enhancement, not be-all-end-all.

I don't think you can trust facebook for information on PNMs because people lie. Though I hear from many collegians that facebook helps them decide who to cut...

I have mixed feelings about recs. They can be very valuable, especially for out of state girls whom nobody knows. And in these days of early and massive cuts due to release figures, they can be a help. On the other hand, a chapter never knows whether to believe the glowing information that many recs contain. I think a lot of chapters just say,"WTH", throw up their hands, and keep the girls they knew beforehand.

There are so many schools that function perfectly fine without recs being a big deal. Even larger recruitments- for example, Penn State. To my knowledge, I don't think recs are really required there. In my 3 years of being an active collegian at Pitt, we received ONE rec that entire time. I wonder how many recs even get read at some schools, or if they just get it and check off a box next to the girls name that they have one? It seems like a waste of a lot of energy and time. IMO, recs fall into the category of "this is the way it's always been done so we're going to keep on doing it". I can sympathize with having to make a lot of cuts early on, but you can easily cut for grades. And then you'd really have to trust the instincts of sisters who met the PNM during first round for the rest of the cuts.

No offense, but it seems like a great number of PNMs are getting them for the sake of having them and not getting dropped from recruitment, not because they personally want to be recommended and highly touted to a particular sorority. That girls have to seek recs from alumnae panhellenics is sort of weird to me...like asking a professor you've never talked to to write you a law school rec. If the use of recs was reduced, I think that their impact would increase. If they weren't necessary (i know Panhel sites say "recommended" to have, but reading between the lines of certain rush threads, they may well have said "required").....getting one particularly well written, detailed and personal recomendation from an alum close to the PNM would be more, I dunno, powerful?

"recs" at Otterbein are usually only used when we have a girl who is a legacy/indirect legacy, just to let us know who she is, but if an alum wrote us specifically about a girl (example: a former student), we'd definitely be inclined to ask more about her.

Here's something that's been digging at me...on your recruitment materials, is there any sort of personal statement?

I would NEVER put facebook or anything like that in the same category as a rec written by an alumna. If I really wanted to, I could probably figure out how to be a "fake" student when I obviously am not. If the sororities are using facebook for anything other than remembering names/faces, and thinking it's a "shortcut," they're going to end up in a real jam sooner or later.

To me recs are like fancy parties - some places have embraced the NPC "no frills" resolution, some basically thumb their noses at it and still spend tens of thousands of $$$ on rush, because those are the large chapters that bring in big bucks. It's the same with recs. Even if NPC passed a resolution tomorrow that they were obsolete and no one should pay attention to them any more, there would still be chapters and schools in the country where you can't get past rush orientation without a rec.

You don't know which sorority you want before you go through rush. Recs are "insurance."

I would imagine that, prior to the printed rec sheet, Mrs. Smith would call XYZ chapter of her sorority, and tell them that Pammy & Patsy PNM would be coming to school that year, and would the chapter please give them extra consideration. I've also heard of alumnae in the past (like 1940's-50's) show up at a chapter with cakes or other gifts with the PNM's name on them. Since that was happening, I can see that getting a rec in the mail is a thousand times better than hundreds of phone calls. Even though schools such as Pitt didn't get as many as other schools, we did get about 20-25 a year, and local ADPi moms would bring their daughters to visit the Suite about a year prior to their freshman year.

The "dropping a good word" isn't going to stop, IMHO, so I see the rec sheet as the better option.

Recs and recruitment help give alumnae means to stay connected to the sorority.

In applying to law school, some schools require a Dean's Certificate. This is really just a form that states you have never been placed on any sort of disciplinary probation by the college. However, when the DC first began, it was in the days where the dean knew you by name and could personally vouch for your character. Today, it's more of a hold over-- how many deans actually know their students on that level?

I think recs are the same-- part of the sorority culture. They were probably more personal and more closely scrutinized in the past than today. Alumnae life is so limited as it is; I see recs/legacies as being more vital to the alumnae retaining their interest in the sorority world than anything else. And if the culture is such that PNMs need them on certain college campuses to be on an equal field with the other PNM's, then so be it-- the alumnae will feverishly write the recs all summer long. They are happy to help.

ETA: I live in TX right now. I am amazed at the activity of the APs and individual AA's in supporting rising college freshmen's persuit of sorority membership. Not only do the area AP's put on huge informational sessions for parents and students, they also have an extensive network of recommendation writers, a brochure and a website. Our AA is so meticulous that we are developing a database of area legacies so we can track where they're going to school and send congratulatory notes to their mothers when these women receive college acceptance letters, pledge a sorority, etc. I realize sorority life is very different in the northeast, midwest, west coast and the south-- but in some places, this isn't just a "college culture"-- there are alumnae women who LIVE this.

I think you are absolutely right. It used to be that one needed a letter of introduction to open doors of society when visiting or relocating. It makes perfect sense that today's reference has evolved from that.

We visited a LOT of schools in the past 2 years for the daughter's college search and if there was a chapter of my organization on campus, we definitely visited. We were treated extremely well by all the chapters.

We didn't get a lot of drop-ins at my school either but always welcomed the ones who did. I think it's a great way to show how extensive a national GLO can be, simply by seeing all the different chapters at different schools, or while you are an active, having an older woman come by your chapter with her legacy saying I was at such and such school and was a member there.

I agree, for some schools recs are pretty useless. I know that at one of the chapters up here they don't know what to do with recs. However, I'm writing a rec for a local girl going to Kansas State next year. I think recs will definitely help her doing recruitment simply because when you have to cut 300 girls after the first round and you've only talked to them for 10 minutes, it'll be pretty easy to cut a girl from out of state rather than a girl who is from the hometown of a lot of girls in your sorority.

I think recs can be helpful at a lot of SEC schools for the same reason - it ensures that the girl will get another look by the chapter.

But see, there are schools where it's so selective to get in--plus their recruitment is competitive--and there are no grade cuts. It's so hard to get into UGa now that there's no way there are any freshman grade cuts! That leaves the sororities with hundreds of girls they must cut in a short period of time and no easy way to choose who to drop. Georgia Tech has no freshman grade cuts either.

So then why should something ridiculously arbitrary, like the lack of a piece of paper, be a reason to cut a girl? Why not go on first round impressions, resume, etc.?

Especially when everyone says "oh recs aren't REQUIRED, it is the sorority's responsibility to get them". Panhel pages and sorority HQ pages say recs are the sorority's responsibility to procure. It's talking out of both sides of your mouth, which is what I really hate about recs. You're giving misinformation to girls, then punishing them when they follow what they were told.

Because when you have 3000 girls going through, there's NWIH you can remember them all.

I'm sure groups do look at certain things on resumes, but to get too into that on here is a little dicey.

also some school do not ask for a resume for recruitment purposes, and have te-ninecy blanks in which the pnm is supposed to fill in her interests, activities, honors, etc. even if the panhellenic says that you can include a resume, there is no guarantee that panhellenic is going to make multiple copies of it and give one to each chapter.

however, when i write a rec. for someone, i ask that they send me a copy of their resume(and ask them to make sure it is up to date) and a photo-i fill out our membership information form, attach the girls resume and photo, and write a personal letter to the chapter. i feel that it gives the chapter insight into the pnm that they can not get from the recruitment application, and may not get in the quick, 20 minute conversaton of first parties.

Also, first parties at some schools are only 20-30 minutes and you go to 16-18 of those parties in 2 days. It's really hard for most girls to remember the sororities and most sororities to remember all the girls.

I hate it that many recruitment booklets tell the girls not to get recs, that the sororities will get them, because at most schools I've worked with--they won't! Not unless you're super super special! It's like the hidden secret is "but they really won't get them and if you're in the know, you know that."

What does the green book say about recs?

What do you mean, they have no grade cuts? As in, there is no minimum GPA set by Panhellenic to go through recruitment, or each individual chapter doesn't have a minimum grade that they will cut for? Because that seems very odd if individual chapters don't have minimums, even if they don't publicize them.

This might be how it's done, but perhaps that needs to be changed. The process needs to at least be manageable for all women, not just the ones who are a triple legacy. I would be livid if I saw a chapter doing this. The least we can do for the young women wanting membership is be as straight forward as we can, where we can.

(first off, I'm not trying to assume or insinuate anything about any GLO's membership selection policies)

It may be that some sororities have in their national bylaws that all pledges must have a rec from an alumna or she cannot be pledged. If the girls all had to get them on their own at your school or mine, we would probably have zero pledges as so many of the people aren't steeped in the Greek system and don't decide at age 5 to rush. :) But if it's in the national bylaw, it has to be done, and so chapters at schools like this do get the recs for the girls. So they can't turn around at another chapter and say that the rushees HAVE to do it. Do you get what I'm saying?

The chapters and university do have minimum GPA requirements. The issue is that the girls (PNMs) have GPAs that are equal to or above the chapter's GPA minimum requirement. Thus the chapter is not able to base cuts on grades since every PNM is at or above it.

While I understand the idea behind recs, I do want to point out that they can put girls hailing from certain geographical locations at a supreme disadvantage.

Where I live, sororities and fraternities are just not a big deal. I literally had never met a single Greek until I moved south and arrived on campus at UF. Nobody in my family had ever belonged to a GLO, nor had any of my friends or their families.

I've since moved back to the north-east, and nobody here I know is Greek (other than those I've met in my alumnae chapter).

No grade cuts means that, in order for the girl to get accepted to the university in the first place (traditionally, let's think of Duke, Northwestern, etc), the student has a high SAT/ACT and a high GPA (over 3.0).

Many state schools (like UGA and UF) now have these higher standards for accepting freshmen. So if a freshman PNM is rushing, she HAS the academic requirements...and you can't cut her for "academic" like you can for a soph or junior who has a university GPA already.

Well, you can look at that this way.

I've lived my whole life in Pennsylvania. I get accepted at Louisiana State and decide to go there.

Well obviously...I'm going to need a different wardrobe (especially for the winter), I'm going to probably be eating different things etc...so I'm going to investigate and look into all that. The same should apply to sorority rush, or any other campus activities for that matter. If you're quite aware that you're going to be a fish out of water, research your situation before you get there.

I'm surprised that since the bar is so high just for entrance, that some sororities (and I'm sure there are at least a few that do) don't make their GPA Req. even higher. Example: Prestigious U has an entrance requirement of 3.5 so XYZ sets their GPA Req. at 3.75, which seems ridiculously high for someone like me from an IL state school, but might not even cut enough girls for their first round of cuts.

Grades are only one part of being in a social GLO. Thus if a girl (PNM) already demonstrates that she can "make the grade" (pun intended), then it seems that it would behoove the chapter to look at her extracurricular life and how she might fit with the chapter. Then again, an even higher GPA might be the norm (and a fit) for the chapter. But then it seems like the chapter would be moving more toward being an academic organization than being a social organization.

I do agree, but I feel bad for girls like me, who never intended to rush going into college. I only did because my mother wanted me do, and it turned out to be the best decision I ever made. But I hadn't done any legwork, had no recs and just happened to be a legacy to one chapter on campus.

LUCKY ME, that I didn't need recs at a private Midwestern University, but I didn't know what they were til I went through recruitment on the other end.

I'm not talking about private membership selection.

I'm saying that if PNMs DO need a rec because of how the chapter treats recs, then the chapter has a duty to say the PNMs that they NEED a rec before recruitment. Not, as Carnation suggested, say that PNMs do NOT need a rec, when in reality they DO (and those w/out the rec would be cut). All I advocate is a clearly articulated process that we expect PNMs to follow. I'm not against the rec, I'm against saying one thing but having a hidden meaning that only people closely associated with the school and its traditions would know.

I believe that one tactful way to deal with this is to add a blurb in Panhellenic recruitment promo materials. Something along the lines of:

Each sorority has its own policy regarding new member selection. Those sororities requiring new members to have alumnae recommendations will secure these recommendations on behalf of its new members. Prospective new members are not required to submit recommendations prior to recruitment, but they are accepted. Individual sororities will take these recommendations into consideration in assessing the prospective new member prior to recruitment. Recommendations do not guarantee a bid to membership.

It is recommended that the prospective new member take necessary steps to showcase her recruitment application with the best means at her disposal. This includes but is not limited to: GPA, extracurricular activities and community service, alumnae letters of recommendation and maintaining a ladylike profile in real life and on the internet. Please carefully consider how you portray yourself on websites such as My Space, Facebook, Live Journal, etc.

That's nice and all if it were the truth, but people in this very thread have admitted that that statement is NOT true- that if a PNM does not have a rec, she's going to get cut, and that the sorority will not procure a rec for her.

But not all chapters in a school's Panhellenic might have the same things in their national bylaws. And Panhel can't very well put on their site "if you want to pledge AST you need a rec, but if you want to pledge ASA you don't" etc etc.

Why not, if that's the policy? What good does it do anyone to confuse PNM's and to give out misinformation?

Because it might unfairly influence the girls and make it seem like some sororities are "better" or "worse" than others because they do or don't require all pledged members to have recs.

I totally concur. We have to remember that these girls are 17-18 for the most part. They are YOUNG, we have to give PNMs clear cut expectations for what they can/must/should do to maximize their consideration for membership. The double-speak needs to be eliminated.

Exactly. As Sheila pointed out 17-18 year old girls are likely to get the impression that some sororities are better or worse simply because they require recs without even meeting any of the members. The point of recruitment is for PNM's to keep an open mind and to look at all sororities fairly. It's hard for them to do that when before they even go to school they have a preconceived notion about the sororities there.

Who are these poor girls, exactly? For most campuses, recs are not *required*, and if a compelling PNM doesn't have any, the chapter can and will obtain one for her. This is true of even fairly competitive, big campus recruitments like Arizona or the California USC or Ohio State.

For the campuses where a girl without a rec doesn't have a prayer, a girl who doesn't know anyone doesn't have much of a prayer at most of the houses anyway. The top chapters pull girls they know whether through hometown connections or family connections- and they can't take all of them. A PNM who is from that area knows she needs recs because SOMEONE she knows is familiar with that system. If Sally Stranger PNM comes from nowhere and decides to go through recruitment on a lark, her chances are going to be the same whether she gets a rec from someone who barely knows her or doesn't.

But I think the number of clueless Sally Strangers is pretty small. The number of super clueless Sally Strangers who would be great fits for a big Southern Greek system even though they knew nothing about it until one second ago is even smaller. (My own guess is that the Sally Stranger who is as smart and accomplished and well-rounded as the best of the best PNMs but hasn't had the importance of going Greek bred into her from birth, would take one look at some doorchants and run.)

So it's okay to blatantly lie to girls, because, hey, it's not like they were going to even have a shot anyway? Unconnected PNMs may not have a shot, but that doesn't make it okay to lie to them.

I don't see how being misleading or straight up lying to someone is a good thing, and certainly doesn't fit into the ideals of any of our groups.

What's wrong with saying something like "Some groups require recs. Some do not. It is strongly suggested that PNM's try to obtain recs for all groups."

Now i'm not saying this as a national thing, but for schools where recs really are required by many/most groups, why can't Panhel say something like this?

I'm guessing they won't because technically, recs ARE the responsibility of the sororities (I believe that's the panhel policy, i'm not certain as I don't have a greenbook, but that's what everyone always says), but some sororities/chapters don't follow that rule. So as long as they don't admit to it, it's okay?

I understand different campuses have different cultures and ways of doing thing. My issue is with lying to PNM's about it.

Ok - If a campus is not heavy into recs, can't the book say - Recs are not required, if they are needed the SORORITY will obtain them for you.

On a campus that is reliant on recs can't the book say - Recs are required.

We need to be clear on our expectations to our PNMs, just like we are clear to our pledges and members.