Is church decreed punishment of God???
 

Recently a member of my church got a divorce. He was removed from all his leadership positions, stripped of his title, and ministering privilages after he refused to publically apologize for getting a divorce. Now the question I raise is, "what right do we have as men to punish sin?" I know if I tried to throw stones my arm would break everytime. Is it biblically sound to punish someone for self-sin? (being his divorce was a personal and private affair).

Honestly, I have a serious problem when churches do things like this. I have a family member who was asked to step down from his Sunday School teaching because they got a divorce from their spouse. Granted, I understand what the Bible says about divorce and their are grounds that are bible-based reasons for getting a divorce. I mean, at my father's church the deacon that was praying over the Lord's Supper was bangin' a fellow classmate of mine (we were High School Juniors and he was in his late 30's) and that was a kept secret. My point is that my family member's divorce was made public and they were punished for that--what do each one of us do at home or in the closet that has not been made public, i.e. alcohol and drug abuse.

Kappativating, I hear what you are saying. But I can see how the church does that. The church already has image issues and they dont want to appear to condone wrongdoing especially if they know of specific issues before hand. I happen to believe that what church leaders do in private does matter because they are looked up to as role models. Unless the reason for the divorce falls under the situations stated in the bible, I would agree that they should step down from any leadership position.

I agree, I think the issue was one of submission -it appears that he was unwilling to publicly acknowledge his divorce before the congregation and submit to church leadership. Therefore they made their decision to strip him of his leadership roles.

Ok I agree. But where does it stop??? He is not being submissive. But when I asked him why, I could agree. I would not apologize to ppl who I had not offended to save face for a few. To say "I'm sorry I got a divorce", when you are not sorry is a lie.

He was my high school mentor and from what I hear he had the right to get a divorce. But what I think of is simply how many ppl will not be able to hear God's word through him @ my church (he was great). Does the church have the right to be so harsh? Instead of washing their hands of him like they are doing they should be trying to help him. It was PUBLICALLY humiliating for them to come up and announce that he was "No longer_____, will not be ministering amongst our body, and is not welcome in our fellowship." That is not love.

Is that all it's about??? IMAGE!!!:confused: :mad: . We should care less about what ppl think and more about what we know to be true.

True, but we cannot forget that leaders are ppl to. That's what we forget. Just cause you mess up once doesn't make you a bad leader. To me it makes you better. A divorce would not have changed the way I and many others viewed him.

From what I heard it does, but they removed him because he refused to apologize for it and for "unforgiveness". What the hell is that? Lawd knows what happened in those walls. I wouldn't ask someone to forgive someone they want to divorce. Who knows what reason they have.

:( Sadly some churches are caught up in legalism not the Agape Love as shown by Jesus Christ-" he who is without sin let him cast the first stone! Go and sin no more"!

Oh wow, that is horrible. Make sure you pray for him and do what you can to keep him encouraged. He could really use some support. :(

I hear what you are saying but this is the church. It is not all about image. But Perception is extremely important. Churches are supposed to be in the business of saving souls. People who are lost and trying to find their way wont be led to God if they perceive that the church leadership is not living by the guidelines set forth in the bible. For example, would you go to the church pastored by Bishop Don Juan(or whatever the name of the dude who hangs with Snoop). I know I wouldnt. I perceive that he would have a strong prosperity message but his views on the role a woman is supposed to play may be skewed.

I agree. But there are consequences for certain behaviors regardless of forgiveness.

But I know of churches who expel members for getting their ears pierced? where does it stop???

You really cant look at church as a single entity. When I talk about church, Im talking about Baptist. Different churches have different 'rules'.

^^ Yes, but when I talk about churches I'm talking about any "church" that claims the Bible and Jesus are the center of their teachings.

After my husband and I separated last year, I went to one of my church mothers and told her that I felt like I should step down from helping them with communion. She said she didn't see a problem with it, but she would talk with another church mother. Apparently, they (nor the pastor) had problems with it because I am still called on to help.

I honestly don't see why the brother had to apologize for the divorce to the congregation, especially if it wasn't his "fault". I also don't think it was necessary for the church to embarrass everyone by taking out an ad in the local paper (I know that the church didn't; I'm being facetious) saying that Minister So-and-So will no longer be preaching. Things weren't done, IMO, decently and in order. Those who needed to be involved should have been able to handle things without everyone knowing what the Minister had for breakfast that morning and with whom.

As someone else said, keep him in your prayers. If his services are no longer needed where he is, God will lead him to a place where he can help others. I truly believe that sometimes when we go through things (such as a separation or divorce) that we go through for others. I have been talking with some friends that are contemplating separation and just letting them know that it's hard, but they'll make it through. God didn't strip this young man's ministry away just because he's divorced, but I pray that through all of this, he stays humble so he can still be used mightily of God.

^^ I hope you don't mind, but I email him this remark. I wanted him to know he wasn't alone. Blessings!

No problem - I hope it helps in some way! :)

I like what my Soror BTB87 said... God didn't strip his ministry away from him because of his choice of a divorce versus staying in a failed relationship... Maybe God never led this brother to marry this woman to begin with and the marriage was doomed from the beginning... It was the "Church" who stripped this poor human being from his ministry, who we are all asked in prayer and supplication if we call ourselves Christians...

The said part is how does your "Church" gain forgiveness? Through bloodletting?

I think there is great piety and piousness being practiced here rather than the worship of the definition of God...

I am curious as to what denomination that your friend belonged to? my guess that it would be a fundamentalist, legalistic church, or a church that is more concerned about doctrine than forgiveness. Not all churches operate this way -there are some good churches out there that are not bound by man made doctrines!

Actually today, I had the strangest thought. It reminded me of something we discussed in Sunday school a few weeks ago. If you think about it, the bible is filled with ordinary, everyday people who were less than "stellar", but Jesus made them the products of healings, parables, and even disciples. Instead of healing the most popular, the most rich, the most attractive, Jesus used the lepper, the woman with an issue of blood that was a social outcast, the woman accused of being an adultress, and just plain old Lazrus. The point is, that the "church" should realize that God can still use those whom we deem "unacceptable". Just because you get a divorce doesn't mean that you cannot lead someone in the right path. The closest people to Jesus were social misfits.

*le sigh* I hate hearing about situations like this. People in glass houses...

Well we are non-denominational christians. But we have a lot of dated OT practices. I just don't understand why someone I don't know has to get on a mic and tell me she slept with so and so and she's sorry. That's none of my business or anyones elses. She should be on that altar saying it to God. All that's gonna do is cause myself and others to see her as the "girl who slept with brother "blinky". These dated and Salem style religious practices are very hurtful to both the person and the body.

ESPECIALLY if everybody doesn't know about it. And like I said before, everybody doesn't need to know about it! The only thing that does is cause embarassment and humiliation to the person(s) involved. And yes, we do have a tendency to look at people differently when we find out something about them that may not be so attractive.

I'm so glad that God forgives us and that His grace is sufficient. Even if the people in that church are leading people to the Lord and to the church, what are they doing to keep them there? People go where they feel love. The church is supposed to be like a hospital, but if you're not being healed when you go to the hospital, what's the point of going?

Might be time to find another hospital, one with more qualified doctors/specialists, that is board-certified.

^^^ ***shouting and dancing around my desk***

You're absolutely correct. Don't forget about Paul. We all know how he started off.

When I was growing up, my church had a policy where anyone who got pregnant out of wedlock would have to go before the church and ask for forgiveness. Now I had two problems with this. 1. You never saw any men go up and ask for forgiveness. It does take two to tango. 2. Tons of people in the church were knocking skins outside of marriage it's just that if you get pregnant you get caught so to speak. Our minister at the time also made an announcement that he would no longer christen babies born out of wedlock. It's practices like this that keep people from church. Church's should really be concerned with winning souls. Most of the time this comes down to a bunch of nosey folks who like to turn their noses down at other people to make them look good.

Who probably used to be "buck wild" themselves...:D

Preach it! :D :p

Sad part is these folks would probably think the same way about Mary, mother of Jesus Christ, given what they "thought" they "knew" about her situation... Most 'specially if Joseph hadn't married her...

It took 8 years for my parents' Catholic church to baptize my godson. At eight they said he was an 'adult', but would not baptize a child "born of an affair".

I belong to a non-denominatinal church but we do practice the Love of Jesus Christ. We don't believe in a lot of dos and or don'ts, only the submitted lifestyle of Jesus as your Lord. I am sorry about what happened to your friend and those children who were not recognized by the church. Jesus never condemned the person -only the sin-and showed unconditional love for all! In anwser to your question: I don't believe your particular church kept to the teachings of Jesus-for he says -All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

:D U better preach it!