Difficult question
 

I'm needing a little advice, so please share your thoughts if you don't mind.

This will be my first formal recruitment, so even in the best of circumstances I'd still have some questions. But, my sorority is struggling with how to deal with recent graduates wanting to help... excessively... during recruitment this year. There is a rather large group of women who, despite the fact that they have graduated, are having a hard time wanting to let the chapter do things differently than how things had previously always been done. They've invited themselves to our summer workshops, and want to have their fingers in the pot constantly.

Now, I realize alums can be a great source of help. But, how do you tell recent graduates that you'd prefer to let the chapter run things differently now? Has anyone been through this type of situation? We're just not sure we know how to tell them that while we'd like some assistance, we'd rather make the big decisions on our own.

Please help! All suggestions are welcome.

I had a similar problem. The issue was just like you said, recent graduates who still wanted to run the chapter like they were in it. But, to make my situation a bit more complex, I was the advisor of the chapter at the time.

It took several meetings with those involved to explain to them that while their enthusiasm is great, their input was no longer needed to that extent. These meetings involved myself and the sponsoring alumane chapter president.

My advice, don't try to handle these women on your own, or even as a chapter. Since these women have graduated, they will feel that they know more than you. Get your advisor and / or regional director involved. Let them handle it.

My suggestion is that y'all need to discuss this with your recruitment and chapter advisors.

The thing is though, with it being summer, it might be a bit difficult. But, if there are a lot of sister in town and your advisors are in town I would suggest arranging a meeting.

Your advisors are the ones who have to be the "big bad" and tell the alums, "yes, we would love your help with formal recruitment, but only in this capacity".

Then the advisors, and possibly your exec board, have to stand firm when alums show up and start demanding things or demanding to help and it's not in the capacity that they were told.

My thought as well. That's what they are there for.

Does your national bylaws say anything that can help you out with this situation? Or something about how active alum can be. I know that we have to get a formal invitation from the exec. council to attend a function or something if you are alum.

But most importantly talk with the chapter advisor and have her deal with the recent grads.

That's another problem, and , in my opinion, one that has led to the recent graduates feeling like they have so much ownership in the chapter. Our advisor is pretty much an advisor in name only. She never attends events, meetings, and rarely even returns phone calls or emails from sisters. Due to her lack of involvement, our chapter has had to learn to manage on our own. So, our recent graduates feel like they are the ones in control. I can see why. I mean, they have been the ones in control for the past couple years. So naturally, they want to keep it. I guess I should look into getting help from our regional/national people. But, I don't want to get a ball rolling that could end up hurting our chapter. And I'm afraid that's what contacting higher-ups would do.

Ugh. This really isn't fun. :(

I guess the decision to be made then is, what's more important...having help from your recent alums, or running the chapter the way you guys want it run. I think that it's time to call in regional/national help. Otherwise, you're going to end up recruiting the same kind of women that you are trying NOT to get.

Contact your regional director. If your adviser is not doing her job, then you need a new adviser.

A regional director, adviser or the alumnae association can address this issue with the recent alum who are trying to assert control.

Your chapter can also write a letter that thanks them for their support, asks for recruitment assistance (donations, volunteers) invites them to an open house before recruitment and reminds them in a tactful way that their place is with the alumnae. Something along the lines of "We're planning a number of collegiate-alumnae mixers this year so that you can get to know our new members! While we would love to see our alumnae sisters during these times, we kindly ask for your cooperation as we manage the day-to-day operations of our chapter. In doing so, we respectfully request that alumnae attend chapter functions and meetings only at the invitation of the chapter executive board. We do appreciate your support and thank you for entrusting us with your legacy."

Sometimes, you just have to spell it out. There will be some grumblings, but they'll get the hint. We had to do this a few years back when alumnae started showing up at recruitment to help out. The chapter sent an email around saying that while we appreciated all of the offers to help, we were running into some logistical issues that risked impairing our recruitment efforts due to the alumnae! The last thing the alum wanted to do was hurt recruitment. They backed off and the chapter set a rule that you had to be a dues-paying member of the local alumnae association just to volunteer and then be approved by the recruitment team. Then again, our chapter has always had a rule that alumnae may attend chapter meetings, etc., by invitiation only (exec board, not Susie Q. member).

Change the lock/keycode on the house and when they knock...stick them in the kitchen! :p

We had the in name only advisor too, but it still didn't make the alums come back and try to run rush. I don't think that is the problem. The problem is that the alums need to let go and move on, and that's something they have to find out for themselves. (Yipes, I sound like Glinda the good witch)

Are they actually coming to parties and such? If so, make Panhel the bad guy and say the other sororities are complaining about all the "extra help" you're gettting. Even if they're not coming to parties, you can try that - say the school has said it's a risk management issue because they're no longer students and not insured or something.

How about talking to your President and Membership VP. Since it is recruitment the MVP should be allowed to make tell them that they need to step back a little. And the President should have a final say in the thing. Its really great that they want to help out but it is know YOUR chapter. They helped maintain it while they were there but it is now time for change and to start doing things they way the Active members want to do things. Kind of the way we do it at my chapter is that we take a chapter vote on an issue with Alum, then the President or some one from exec. talks to the Alum or sends them a letter.

If your Chapter Advisor is never around or doing her job, call your Nationals and tell so that you may get a better advisor that is actually willing to do the job of a Chapter Advisor.

33girl,

Since rush hasn't started, I don't know if they'll come to the parties or not. It sure seems like they're planning to. Right now, our problem is that they're planning to come to our summer workshops. We're afraid they'll be like, "Don't do THAT skit, do this one instead" and "No, Kelly should do this and Sara should do that, not the other way around." We just want a chance to make our own decisions, and if they're at our planning meetings, they'll end up taking over.

If they are planning on coming to recruitment parties, then I suggest you do what Sheila said and let them know that Panhel is "discouraging" it and that it makes the sorority look bad. Other than that, all that I can think of really is to just keep them out of the loop. When they ask about when meetings and such are just be like "oh we haven't figured it out yet" or "we're not sure yet."

Regarding the chapter's advisor (I'm sorry to be asking so many questions), I might be able to find this out in our bylaws or something but I haven't looked. Does anyone know if someone who isn't an alum can be an advisor? There's a really great prof on campus who I'm sure would do a fantastic job (and I think she'd be really excited and interested if we proposed the idea to her). But, she isn't one of our alums.

When they say "Don't do this skit, do that one", what's forcing you to listen to them??? Tell them that you appreciate their input, but the Exec Board/President/Rush Chair has already decided on the one you are doing.

Then you all need to grow a pair.

Seriously.

The decisions are up to YOU to make. These aren't Darth Vader's storm troopers coming in with stun guns. They're 22-23-24 year old women.

If you as current actives don't feel that you can stand up to them and say "we respect your input and know you want to help, but we want to try it this way," then maybe the alums' concern about how you will run rush is valid.

And it varies from group to group as to whether nonmembers can be advisors.

I'm sure this varies from group to group. We had an adviser that was a Zeta, two ASAs, and one that was unaffiliated. Our bylaws say that only the Ritual Adviser MUST be an ASA, and some other advisers are "recommended but not necessary to be ASAs" and then we have a few that it doesn't matter one bit if they are ASAs or not. But then again, one ASA chapter can easily have 5 advisers.

It would depend on your sorority. You may have to check with your national hq on that. But you can still ask the professor to be your school advisor. Don't most sororities have two advisors anyways? One for the school and one for nationals.

Dang, you'd think you're my sister or something.;) ;)

Thanks for all your suggestions, everybody. I appreciate your thoughts.

I get what you're saying, AlphaFrog, about not being forced to listen. You just have to know these girls. They're the most demanding, persistent people I've ever met. And when they all get together, they're like some kind of unstoppable train or something. I know it sounds stupid, but they're just extremely hard to say no to. It's just easier (and much more peaceful) to say, "Fine. We give in."

Maybe the suggestion of lying about when/where our summer workshops are is the best route. Or, if they find out and come, we'll just have another one after they leave when we make the final decisions. It just seems wrong to have to do it twice.

Thanks again, everyone. I'm feeling better about this situation. At least now I feel like we have options.

If this is what it takes to get things the way YOU want them, then you might just have to put in the extra time. In the end, it will probably be worth it to have things run your way.

I think you should shame them into apologizing. ;)

I hate to sound mean but I have to agree with 33girl, you guys, as a chapter, need to grow a pair.

You (and I'm saying you, as in the chapter) need to tell the alums that under no circumstances are they invited to your summer workshops. End of discussion. If they show up, kick them out. You guys need to start standing up to the alums. They are out of college, they need to realize this. Yes, you want and need alumnae support, but from the sounds of it, they are doing more than supporting you guys, they are trying to run your chapter.

I can only speak for ADPi and the alums in my area, but when it comes to formal recruitment, I can't go to summer workshops, recruitment workshops. I stay in a back room (during recruitment), tabulating. That's it. The only ones, alum wise, who are with the chapter are our Recruitment advisor, chapter advisor and TME advisor. That's it. Any non-advisor alum just can't go in and start demanding the chapter do certain things, even alums from the chapter can't do that.

The things you can do as a collegian are COMPLETELY different than the things you do as an alum. They are trying to have their cake and eat it to.

As for your advisor situation, do you only have one advisor? If you don't, go to any advisor. Go to your recruitment, standards, whichever advisor you have that is actually doing their job. If you don't have an advisor doing their job, go to your province director (if you have them), go to someone higher up.

If you guys as a chapter, do not nip this in the bud, it is only going to get worse as time goes on. The alums are going to get more and more demanding.

You don't sound mean, ASUADPi. I came here for advice. That's what you're giving. And, if it makes you feel any better, I completely agree. We DO need to learn how to stand up to them.

This is all connected to posts I made earlier in the academic year. Our problem has (IMO) always stemmed from this group of very... um, strong?... women. I had the patience to just wait it out earlier in the year, 'cause I knew they were graduating. I thought that would be the end. Clearly, it isn't.

I hope I can manage to get the rest of the chapter to agree to keep our summer workshops quiet (with respect to sharing details with the alum). If not, then I'll have to learn how to tell these women that they're not welcome. I'm not an officer, though, so I don't know how much impact I can have with that. But you're right... the chapter needs to spine-up and take control of OUR future.

Regarding the advisor, yes, we have only one. I'm going to look into contacting someone regionally or nationally regarding our current advisor-related situation. If we had any others, believe me, I'd definitely go to them first.

Can any of you remember if/how your chapter ever dealt with a relatively young member taking so much initiative? I don't want to step on toes, but at the same time, this is my sorority (and life!) too. I feel like I can make it better, but I don't want girls to think I'm too young to know what should be done.

(GC needs to start a counseling service. I feel like I ask too many questions!)

The chapters I have worked with have supported younger members taking on leadership roles. We are all sisters.

What is your official role within the sorority? Exec Board? Recruitment Chair? If this issue is as prevalent as you say, this would be a good time to call a summer Exec. Board meeting to discuss the problem and collectively brainstorm how to eliminate it once and for all.

You may just need to send out a nicely worded cease and desist letter to these women.

You may want to amend your bylaws to indicate that alumnae are invited to attend chapter meetings and functions by invitation of the executive board only. Alumnae may visit the chapter house during visiting hours only or as specified by invitation of the executive board in extenuating circumstances (such as support during recruitment, summer house repairs, evening meetings, alumnae functions held at the chapter house, etc.). Alumnae can be alerted of this amendment.

You do not need to resort to subterfuge or secret workshops. These are events for collegiate members only. Alumnae support is certainly appreciated, but on a by-request basis only. If alumnae support is needed, the collegiate chapter will submit a request. If there is an alumnae-collegiate mixer, alumnae will be invited. End of story.

If the alumnae press the issue, confront the issue head-on. What is wrong with reminding them that you pay dues and thereby these decisions are yours to make with the blessing of your adviser and the sorority's bylaws?

OK, I went back over your old posts and reacquainted myself with your situation.

I'm guessing that the alums are afraid you (chapter you) want to turn the chapter into a group of vapid Barbie dolls. They're worried they will be unwelcome when returning to their own house, and rightly so.

Assure them that just because you're going to be putting a little more emphasis on the rushees' appearance, you're not going to let stupid, personality free beauties in just to make your sorority look better.

One thing you also may need to check up on is that other sorority sister's are not extending them invites. My sorority also had an experience with manipulative and controlling girls. This was only while they were seniors and not as alumnae but I Know the frustration when someone who is your sister and who you are supposed to respect is acting like adolpf hilter with boobs.

I would perhaps talk to your exec board about the issue and if she agress have her send out an email to the entire chapter letting them know that workshops and other such meetings are stictly for current members and no alumnae. Tell them any invitations to events for alumae will be decided upon by the whole chapter later. This will prevent other sisters who are either intimidated or a fan of the alumnae from backing down or secretly inviting them. Once the sorority is together as a whole on the issue you can present a united front to the alumni and let them know that it is not int he chapter's best interest to have them at workshops or other events as it hinders younger members growing in leadership positions or something else like that.

Even if you looovveee the alumnae, it's best to get approval in advance for "visitors" to your workshop. The Chapter Advisor or Recruitment Advisor can be the "bad guy".

They have to remember that normally workdays are pretty well structured since you only have a few days to get a lot done.

The same thing goes for actual Recruitment, they can help in the kitchen, etc. but don't let them tell you how you should vote!

Thank you for this MUCH needed laugh!! :D

If you and other members of the chapter are indeed so concerned about this, now is the time to do something. (Inter)national is there to support your chapter, and perhaps through a phone call they could give you some advice that could be helpful as well.

Best wishes to you and your chapter - please do keep us posted.

Well, the update isn't very good. Recruitment just ended not too long ago. We got 1/5 of quota. We're the only chapter who didn't make quota, and all the others even got quota plus.

It's pretty sad around here. Chapter morale is extremely low.

Some of the alums have called for a "closed meeting". I don't know what that is, but it doesn't sound good. Rumor has it that they're talking about closing the chapter. Can they do that? Whose decision is it to close us (if that's what happens)? I wouldn't think alums have any say in that matter. But, I dunno.

So, now you're up to speed. Thanks to all who offered advice... It was all probably moot, tho. :(

As far as I know, a group of alumnae cannot decide to close a chapter of a national sorority. They can take away your house if they run a housing corporation, but as far as closing the chapter itself, only the national HQ can do that.

I can't imagine a group of alums that would be so vicious as to recommend their own chapter be closed just because they didn't get their way. If that's the case, you REALLY need to get with your national people and tell them what's happening and that you guys want to achieve - it's the alums that are holding you back.

Your alumnae need to get a life. This is no longer their chapter and they have no say in the goings-on until the chapter and/or your appointed regional officers invite them in for a sit-sit. Talk to your advisers and regional team and figure out a way to tell these nosey alumnae that this is not their concern. Your chapter alumnae cannot close your chapter. They have absolutely no power and no say in how you conduct your chapter. They would be much better off getting involved in an alumnae association and focusing on building up alumnae life and alumnae activities.

I'm so sorry to hear about quota--I do have to say that this happened once to my college chapter, and we definitely bounced back--we made quota three years in a row after it. I understand your concern--these concerns are valid. Keep your head up; you ladies will definitely get through this!!!

sockpuppet3, is your chapter a national panhellenic sorority , a national pan-hellenic sorority or a local?

Okay, not knowing how the chapter has done the last couple of recruitments, I'm just telling what I "know".

My chapter of initiation just closed last May (05). But this was after a special advisor was assigned to the chapter, 2 school years prior (like the 03-04 school year). This was after multiple recruitments where they didn't make quota. It wasn't just something that was decided overnight, after one poor formal recruitment, or because a bunch of alums got together and had a "closed" meeting.

Closing a chapter is a big deal. There are a lot of logistical things that have to be thought about. If you have a house, will you sell the house, will you rent it out? Will you try to come back on campus? What happens to the girls? Those are just a few questions, there's millions more though.

Honestly, I would just take a deep breath and not fret too much. Unless you guys have been repeatedly talked to by your HQ about your numbers or were put on a "recruitment improvement plan", be concerned, numbers are what keeps us all around, but again not knowing all the details, I don't think they (HQ) will jump the gun and close the chapter.

As for your alums, I have to go with what my sister said, they need to get a life. They don't get to decide if a chapter stays open or not. Heck if alums got to decide I'm guessing that my chapter would have never closed. :)

We are NPC.

To answer other questions, we have struggled with formal recruitment for a while. This is the first one I was ever involved with (on this end), and it was a mess. Having gone through formal recruitment last year, and getting to see what other groups on my campus can do, I'm not surprised we did so poorly - the other groups seem to be so much more "with it" than us. I love my sisters, and we worked our butts off, but it just doesn't seem to be enough. We've had such a poor reputation on campus for so long now that I don't know how we'll be able to pull out of this slump.

I really thought it would get better once some of our alumnae moved on, but their involvement is still so strong. And when your chapter is already weak, it's hard to turn away people who are willing to help. I think we're just being helped by the wrong people. HQ always seems interested in helping us, and the chapter consultants who visit usually make comments like, "Obviously, you have a great sisterhood, you just need to get your numbers up." We're like, "Obviously. We get that. How can you help us do that?"

So what is a closed meeting anyway? Has anyone ever participated (in any form) in one? It isn't scheduled for a while, so I have some time to get my thoughts together. Of course I'm assuming I have a chance to express my thoughts. If it's just a gripe session run by alumnae, then I don't want to go (nor do I see why we would be required to attend). If it's a chance for us to try to figure out a new game plan, then I'm all for it. I just hope it isn't too late.

We don't have a house, so ASUADPi, that isn't really an issue we're having to worry about. We have all talked about the other questions you've mentioned (what happens to sisters? will we try to come back - again?) Our chapter was closed around 20 years ago and reopened around 5 years later. From what I gather, it's been 15 years of uphill battles for us. I'd hate for someone else to be going through this 15 years down the line.

I just don't know. I feel like we need some serious HQ intervention. But, that might just be asking for trouble. I just want to contact HQ and say, "Please, please please help us - but don't close us."

Heres what I don't get...

If your chapter has been closed and then recolonized once already you think your HQ would have a bit more invested interest in it. It boggles my mind that you (the chapter) has only one advisor, who as you said is more "in name only".

I don't even know which sorority you are part of or where you are, but it makes me want to go and help your chapter out. I mean recruitment is recruitment is recruitment no matter what sorority you are part of.

But I'm also one of those people who thinks along the lines of "no matter what the letter we're all greek together".

sweetie I'm going to pm you.

SockPuppet, are you an exec board officer? If you aren't, then don't worry about what is or isn't coming. As a new sister on the other side of recruitment for the first time, this fall will be a learning experience for you as you go through your first full year as an initiated sister. Recruitment may have seemed confusing and disorganized-- but some would view the recruitments of even the strongest chapters as chaotic and loud. That doesn't mean you guys are doing it wrong or the stronger chapters on campus did it right-- campus reputations precede you and from your past posts even you and your own real life sister don't think much of your group.

Meantime: Express your concerns to your chapter president and offer to take on a leadership role to assist in recruiting, boosting morale, boosting campus image, etc. The best you can do right now is to be a good student, a good sister and to present your sorority in a positive light by being a chapter asset and a good person. If things aren't improving and the exec isn't taking you up on your offer to step up and move into a leadership role, then step back and re-evaluate if you want to remain a member of the chapter.

The alumnae of your chapter have no business telling your chapter how to operate. You are not obligated to take their advice or attend their meetings. Your exec board, along with advisers, and your regional directors work together to keep the chapter operating. Much goes on behind the scenes that most chapter members are not aware of. This year as a first-timer behind the scenes you've learned a lot and there is still much to know about how a chapter operates. But you have also had up until now to observe how the chapter operates and you know that change can be slow... or that people can be resistent to change. It is all in how you present your case and express yourself to determine if others will follow your lead. Change can't come overnight. And sometimes people need to feel like they came up with an idea themselves if they are to accept it.

We can give you tips on recruitment and chapter morale until we are blue in the face, but unless you're a chapter officer and putting said ideas into place or you know your chapters plans for the year, it's a moot point. I'm sorry you had a lousy recruitment. Clearly, there's a lot your chapter needs to do to gain a competitive foothold on campus and gain quality members to get to chapter total. Your alumnae aren't needed for this recruitment or chapter operations (but they can be handy to aid with chapter morale, sisterhood events, and traditions... but they should not be inviting themselves into chapter operations without a formal invitation from the chapter exec)-- you need chapter members like you who are interested in helping the chapter grow. Talk to your president and step up. Follow the chapter chain of command. If your HQ needs to be involved, your exec and advisory board will make that call. These are the chapter officers you elected to make decisions for the chapter, after all. And soon it will be time to bring in a new board of officers. Be a part of that next wave.

If your advisers aren't being responsive, your exec needs to take that up with the advisers and the regional officers who support your chapter on national level.

I don't think it's her advisors that are the problem, more that the chapter consultants aren't giving them concrete information as to HOW to get numbers up. Advisors are not panaceas and in some cases, their involvement can actually be bad for the chapter. Not to mention at some schools, the pickings are slim. The chapter needs an advisory board full of capable advisors that are alumnae that can be hands on. That's easier said than done in some areas of the country.

But anyway - tell the consultants that you need something more than "get your numbers up." They are being paid to help you. If they can't do that, THEY NEED TO FIND SOMEONE WHO CAN. If they aren't doing that, they aren't doing their job.

If this young lady isn't on the Exec Board/Council, she may not know just what help has been offered directly to the officers by the consultants either. I've also seen situations where consultants offer all kinds of ideas, but the officers (President/VPR) are resistive to new ideas/change/new ways of doing things (like COR). It's hard to know, as outsiders.

SockPuppet3, have you discussed any of this with the officers in the chapter? What are their reactions? Do they know the appropriate volunteers to contact to ask for help?

Having been an advisor or on our regional volunteer team for 18 years now, I can honestly say that a plea for help from a chapter is responded to positively, with as many resources as possible being poured into that chapter. The last thing we ever want to do is close a chapter, and when we do end up going that route, it's only after huge attempts from everybody to turn things around. But sometimes, if collegians aren't filing reports regularly, we don't even know there is a problem (since we aren't psychic!). I can also say that if the other collegians are having all the same concerns and fears that you are, then PNMs can sense that during recruitment and the chapter won't give much of a sense of sisterhood, so those things NEED to be addressed.