Oprah "under attack" about hip hop
 

Hello Ladies,
I'm not sure if you're aware of this but certain hip hop artists (namely Ludacris, Ice Cube and 50 Cent) have recently been accusing Oprah of disliking hip hop music and therefore, being strategically unwilling to have mainstream rappers on her show for whatever reason. To date, Oprah has not directly addressed these accusations but has only gona on record as saying, "I do not have a problem with hip hop...".
Now, I am fully aware of Oprah's audience, which is not exactly young teenagers who listen to and get lost in hip hop, but I do think that with Oprah's status in America as a successful, Black mogul and worldwide as an African-American role model for many, wouldn't it be helpful for her to host a show on which she features rap artists? I mean, even though it might not reach the right audiences in America (even though I know a lot of parents who would love to know what rap artists are talking about half the time), Oprah's international appeal could address the currently-held perceptions about all Black Americans being rich, materialistic, misogynistic and careless with money (as I experienced during my recent semester in Capetown, South Africa)? Let me know what you think.

"wouldn't it be helpful for her to host a show on which she features rap artists? "



Honestly, no I don't. Oprah has worked long and hard at having HER own show. She doesn't owe anyone, including "us" anything. She can have whatever topics discussed on HER show that she chooses. I, personally, have seen various rap artists featured on her show. Specifically, what comes to mind the quickest is when she had Ludacris on her show along with, I believe it was, Don Cheadle and other entertainers discussing the word "Nigger". She has people on her show who are pertinent to her topics when she wants and I don't think it's fair to try to make her feel obligated to have who we think she should have when we think she should have them. There are many different types of black people in this country and in this world who have varying views, likes and dislikes and Oprah is doing what she likes and wants to do. Anyone else who wishes to host rap artists on their show can do so whenever they wish. I understand and appreciate your point about her being such a high-grossing celebrity with an influential audience, but at the same time, the business savvy brilliance that she has is alos directing her on how to maintain her throne at the top of talk shows and to her, it may be that having that type of show may not be the best thing for her audience or her business. Who knows? Again, that's her call to make, not ours.

We can't be too bothered by what the citizens of Cape Town or any other black populated nation or region has to say about our people here in America. Cape Town citizens have their own varying social issues that they have to face. Perhaps those people there who are critical of Black Americans need to wise up and realize that just as depictions made abroad about Africa are not truly representative of the realities there, the same can and should be said about black Americans and America. Its not their fault the good about South Africa doesn't get depicted to us here in the U.S and its not our fault the good about black Americans aren't depicted there.

Bottom line is that Oprah has opened the door for other young, talented black people to get out there, use their brains and make it as talk show hosts or any other things that they choose to do. That means that other people can get out there and do that. ANy person who wants to have rap artists featured on their show can do so, but don't force Oprah to be the one voice or outlet of that one facet of our culture. That's not fair, espcially given ALL the things she already does for our community that NO ONE can argue that she doesn't do.

;) I do recall seeing Kayne West on Oprah several months ago and it was a positive show and I believd he performed and gave a tribute to his mother:) I don't see how she could cater to the audience of her particular market with a hip-hop show. Tyra Banks has had her share of artists concerning that maybe they should check her out!:D

I agree...almost
 

I agree with the fact that since Oprah has worked so hard to come up and make her own show where she does things her way.
I also agree with the fact that she has had rappers on her show before (Ludacris, Kanye, Eve, and a couple others).

What I'm calling to attention is that when she had Ludacris, Eve and Kanye on her show, it was to talk about the movies they were in ("Crash" and "Barbershop") and to talk about up-and-coming talents (concerning Kanye). Never has Oprah has a show strictly about the contents of hip hop songs, which she stabbed at on the show with Ludacris without letting Ludacris address his lyrics (or editing out what he said). In my opinion, since she opened the can of worms (talking about what rappers are saying), shouldn't she close it properly by letting rappers speak for themselves?

By the way, is it not interesting that when she had the cast of "Barbershop" on the show, she failed to invite Ice Cube (according to Cube himself: http://www.vibe.com/news/news_headli.../?source=IDIF), the main character and producer of the movie? What was that about? I know she's not scared to have controversial people on her show. She had Chris Rock on. What's the matter with Ice Cube?

Maybe it was a scheduling conflict...how do we know that Oprah's people didn't attempt to contact Ice Cube regarding Barbershop, we don't know, we just know what they are "" saying...we can't believe everything we hear because frankly we aren't them (Oprah, or any other person challenging her). I don't blame Oprah for not having "hip-hop artists" on her show because as a whole, it does not reflect the audience that she serves and/or seeks to serve. However, she does has a place on her website for show ideas, that must mean that she is open to any new ideas and that just may be something that she may do.

Been there, done that...
 

Her website gets thousands of suggestions a day...yes, mine was one of them but don't think I didn't write to Tyra also...:)

Not getting the big deal....
 

It's Oprah's show and see no reason why she should be chastized for not liking hip hop, or not inviting hip hop artists, or talking bad about hip hop or whatever.

It's her show! Oprah could spend all day every day using her show to "vent" for the daily hour of "what Oprah hates" and would still owe not one of "the hated" an obligation to allow that particulare "hated" to come on her show and talk to her about why she shouldn't hate them.

I've seen this topic on other boards/email lists and I'm like <<eye rolling>> ..who cares? Does Oprah look like she likes hip-hop? I mean, this is the woman who was not even cool enough to get the Beyonce booty hop down good-- that was like a major event in her life. Somehow I think hip hop has a bit too much flava for her....like it does for my mom.

Oprah no more "ought" to have random hip hop artists on her show than Phil Donahue ought to have had Ozzie Osbourne on his.

Okay, I get it now...
 

Social responsibility has gone out the window. Having the good, bad and the ugly should be a concern of hers in my mind. EXPLAINING the bad and the ugly (and giving them the chance to explain themselves) is what is necessary because no matter how many shows she does with Denzel Washington, Chris Rock, Shamar Moore, Nelson Mandela, Maya Angelou and other "seemingly safe" African-Americans, people around the world will still primarily think about 50 Cent when it comes to Black Americans (I did a study while I was there about Perceptions of Black Americans among Black South Africans. Results were startling.) Don't let me get my own show...

Well maybe you should get your own show. That is what you, AS an African American, and largely because of Oprah, can do if you want. Get your own show and feature nothing bu hip hop artists and let them elaborate on their way of thinking. Problem solved :)

I dont understand why are 'Cube and Luda itching to get on the Oprah show. :confused:

They need to get one of their own in house talents, support them getting a show, be a guest on the show once a week.

I really want those rappers to find something else to do with their time. Read a book, go to the zoo, visit the sick and shut in, just do something useful, just my opinion.

Were you reading my mind????? :o My sentiments exactly . . .

The issue
 

I think the issue is that both Ludacris and Ice Cube are actors for various films. When Oprah invited the cast of Crash, it would have been polite to invite Ludacris. Not to perform but as a member of the film cast. Does Oprah have to have them on the show? No... But if she invites the entire cast of the film, except one or even the perception of that action is where the trouble begins. No one wants to be overlooked. Regardless, I'm not an Oprah fan so whether they were on or not, I would have never known :confused:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Ludacris was mad at Oprah because when he was on the show with the rest of the cast from 'Crash', she took that time as an opportunity to talk about how much she didn't like his music because of the derogatory statements, cursing, etc. that is found within the lyrics. He felt as though he were there as Chris Bridges, not as Ludacris, and they were all supposed to be discussing the film and not his music.

Now, I agree with all of you who said that this is Oprah's show and she can do whatever she wants to do on it. Ludacris and everyone else are essentially being invited to HER house, and when you're in Oprah's house you've gotta follow her rules. If she wants you to take your shoes off and leave them at the front door, pray that you don't have any holes in your socks or funkdafied toe jam, respect her place and just do it! I'm sure all her guests are privy to the rules and regulations that come with being on not just Oprah's show, but any television show.

I'm sorry, but the only one that I can kinda feel for is Ice Cube. He has 14 years of acting, producing, and directing experience under his belt. Imma need Luda and 50 Cent to be cast in a lot more movies before they can beef @ Oprah.

As everyone has said, she has no obligations when it comes to inviting folks on her show.

I agree!

Just by looking at the title of the thread, Oprah could "buy" hip-hop! LOL


Suggestion: How about Sean Carter, Chris Bridges, or O'shea Jackson come up with a talk show of their own? :confused:

If you've been very derogatory towards females in your rap, why should a woman embrace you with open arms? Ummmmmmm, maybe it's because your stage names are just characters and you are really nothing like your character at all. Maybe, you should be who you IS! :D :p :rolleyes:

Quote[ I don't blame Oprah for not having "hip-hop artists" on her show because as a whole, it does not reflect the audience that she serves and/or seeks to serve.

Trust me...all of those "beautiful white people" in her audience have children who listen to hip-hop. Those people in her audience are the parents of the kids that are shooting up our schools and murdering their friends. She might want to try to reach them too.

I have been to the Oprah show on many occasions...being from Chicago...what you see on TV is very different from the way she acts to the audience when the camaras aren't rolling (speaking from a personal experience that I had).

Anticipatience, what perceptions are going to be cleared up by Oprah having foul-mouthed, women-denigrating rappers on her show? I understand freedom of speech and all that (I'm an atty.) but really, Oprah's show seems to me to be more about upliftment so what can really be gained by featuring Ludacris and 50 Cent? What is the mainstream (or other AAs for that matter) going to suddenly understand about the lyrics of rappers such as Ludacris and 50 Cent that is going to show them in a positive light?

SC

Right! Plus, Luda wasn't even that big of a character. I mean he was important, but there were other important characters (I believe Thandie Newton and Loretta Devine) that were not on the show that day. Luda is just feeling more important than he really is, and is mad that no one else feels the same way.

As for her having rappers on...its her show...she can do whatever she wants with it. Oprah has been working on and developing her show for 20 years. She goes through phases and has different themes/goals that she wants to get across each year. If understanding hip hop, social responsibility, rap and its impact on the AA community is not one of those themes, then there is no reason that she should be ridiculed for that. Maybe shes just plain thinking about the outcome of a show like that. I realize that lots of young white kids are listening to rap, but are there parents really going to understand hip hop culture any better or think any better of Blacks by watching a bunch of rappers explain why using bitch, nigger, half-naked women, etc is alright?

brief response
 

I was asked, "Anticipatience, what perceptions are going to be cleared up by Oprah having foul-mouthed, women-denigrating rappers on her show?"

If Oprah can have a white racist man from the deep south screaming the "n-word" all over her show and then have him back to say why he no longer uses it, she can stand to have a couple of rappers on. By the way, I highly doubt that they would disrespect her show with profanity. They might defend their use of it (and maybe illuminate their reasons for degrading women the way they do as well) but I doubt they would use it. Also, despite how they sound in songs and during some interviews, most mainstream rappers are highly articulate and can express themselves very well (50 Cent and Jay-Z, especially). I wouldn't put them all in the same category...

sorry, another response
 

I don't think white parents need to understand that these things are "alright" but ENTERTAINMENT and that's it...

^The same could have been said about minstrel shows. Or Birth of a Nation. The words and images put out there over and over and over again are never just entertainment. And I don't see how defending their use would change the image of Black people. On the show we're talking about, Ludacris did not say "I talk about women that way just for entertainment", he said "I talk about women that way because that's how they act." All that did was reinforce the minsconception.

well....
 

Luda defenitely said more than that and most of it was edited out. This further fuels my argument that Oprah should have him back on the show to elaborate on what he said because if given this opportunity (although I know I can't accurately assume what he would say), he might take back that statement and replace it with one about "SOME women acting like that" just as other rappers who've been asked to justify their usage of misogynistic words have done. All I'm saying is...why not give them (rappers) the chance/benefit of the doubt? I mean, she doesn't have to cuz it is her show and all but why call someone out and then not give them a chance to respond? "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48 I expect (and God requires that) Oprah to be more responsible with her show and let others speak for themselves.

I do not see why Oprah should have any hip hop artist on her show. There are plenty of genre's of music, "white" and "black" that she has never had on her show. Frankly, I think any show that she had on hip hop would make all these crtics even more mad. The only show on hip hop that would be at all interesting to me would be one about how it has gone so very wrong. How it was once a thoughtful and articulate expression about the struggle of a people and has disintergrated into nothing more than a battle about how many naked chicks I can get in my video, how many I can lie about sleeping with, how much weight I can allege to have slang and how many people I can allege to have killed or how many creative ways I can describe killing you. Any show she does will have them feeling attacked and on the defensive way more than Luda ever felt during the Crash interview. I have no desire to see any fool dare to DEFEN some of the things said about women in their songs. To me, their is no defense so that would be a waste of breath. All they will do is gurantee those white parents go out of their way to stop thier kids form buying thier music. Wait....that may not be such a bad idea.

Oprah is very aware of her audience. As a 50 year old woman, I do not expect her to do shows on certain topics. This is one of them. She had Kanye on and for her that really is plenty. They are all just looking for some media attention so now they have it.

Please tell me you do not think that back peddling to say "I call women bitches and whores for profit and for the world to see because some women act like that" is an acceptable justification? That's like saying it is okay to call Black people niggers cause some Black people act that way. Ridiculous.

um...
 

I don't know if it's a justification so much as a sad reality: whites and blacks call people niggers because of the faults of some people. That's been going on for centuries.

WOW :eek: :eek: :eek:

No.

Black/African American isn't synonymous with hip hop and no black person is required to think highly of hip hop or hip hop artists.

As I always say, I'm an ol skool hip hop head. I don't consider this new, mostly mysogynistic, crap to be hip hop. However, I can see why people have a poor perception of hip hop based on the rap music and images that the world has begun to identify with hip hop.

These people are artists who use their words. They have nothing but the "chance" to speak. If they want to get on TV and talk about what they think, they have endless opportunities to do that. That verse applies to them also.

Great point. And the debate really should end here because you're right, they have an opportunity to "speak". Not going on Oprah won't hinder that at all.

I think it's all a media stunt and it's quite shameful really. :(

We Still Wear the Mask
 

I got this from another message board. It's a long read, but it is so on point.


We Still Wear the Mask
by W. Jelani Cobb


We could have known that it would come to this way back in 1896. That
was the year that Paul Lawrence Dunbar dropped a jewel for the ages,
telling the world that "we wear the mask that grins and lies." The
poet's point was that beneath the camouflage of subservient smiles,
black folks of the Jim Crow era were hiding a powder keg of other
emotions, waiting patiently for the chance to detonate. The thing is,
Dunbar never got the chance to spit bars with 50 Cent or throw in a
guest collabo on a Mobb Deep album. If he had, then he would've known
that grins and lies were only half the story.

These days, camouflage is the new black. Glance at hip hop for less
than a second and it becomes clear that the music operates on a single
hope: that if the world mistakes kindness for weakness it can also be
led to confuse meanness with strength. That principle explains why
there is a permanent reverence for the thug within the music, it is
why there is a murderer's grit and a jailhouse tat peering back at you
from the cover of damn near any CD you picked up in the last five
years. But what hip hop can't tell you, the secret that it would just
as soon take to its deathbed is that it this urban bravado is a guise,
a mask, a head-fake to shake the reality of fear and powerlessness in
America. Hip hop will never admit that our assorted thugs and gangstas
are not the unbowed symbol of resistance to marginalization, but the
most complacent and passive products of it.

We wear the mask that scowls and lies.

You could see which way the wind was blowing way in the early 90s when
Dr. Dre was being ripped off by white Ruthless Records CEO Jerry
Heller, and nonetheless got his street cred up by punching and kicking
Dee Barnes, a black woman journalist, down a flight of stairs. In this
light, hip hop's obsessive misogyny makes a whole lot more sense. It
is literally the logic of domestic violence. A man is abused by a
larger society, but there are consequences to striking back at the
source of his problems. So he transfers his anger to an acceptable
outlet – the women and children in his own household, and by
extension, all the black people who constitute his own community.

Nothing better illustrates that point than the recent Oprah Debacle.
Prior to last month, if you'd heard that a group of rappers had teamed
up to attack a billionaire media mogul you would think that hip hop
had finally produced a moment of black pride on par with 1968
Olympics. But nay, just more blackface.

In the past two months, artists as diverse as Ludacris, 50 Cent and
Ice Cube have attacked Oprah Winfrey for her alleged disdain for hip
hop. It's is a sad but entirely predictable irony that the one
instance in which hip hop's reigning alpha males summon the testicular
fortitude to challenge someone more powerful and wealthy than they
are, they choose to go after a black woman.

The whole set up was an echo of some bad history. Two centuries ago,
professional boxing got its start in America with white slaveholders
who pitted their largest slaves against those from competing
plantations. Tom Molineaux. First black heavyweight champion came up
through the ranks breaking the bones of other slaves and making white
men rich. After he'd broken enough of them, he was given his freedom.
The underlying ethic was clear: an attack on the system that has made
a slave of you will cost you your life, but an attack on another black
person might just be the road to emancipation.

The basis for this latest bout of black-on-black pugilism was Oprah's
purported stiff-arming of Ludacris during an appearance on her show
with the cast of the film Crash. Ludacris later complained that the
host had made an issue of lyrics she saw as misogynistic. Cube jumped
into the act whining that Oprah has had all manner of racist flotsam
on her show but has never invited him to appear – proof, in his mind,
that she has an irrational contempt for hip hop. Then 50 threw in his
two cents with a claim that Oprah's criticism of hip hop was an
attempt to win points with her largely white, middle class audience.
All told, she was charged her with that most heinous of hip hop's
felonies: hateration.

But before we press charges, isn't 50 the same character who openly
expressed his love for GW Bush as a fellow "gangsta" and demanded that
the black community stop criticizing how he handled Hurricane Katrina?
Compare that to multiple millions that Oprah has disseminated to our
communities (including building homes for the Katrina families,
financing HIV prevention in South Africa and that $5 million she
dropped on Morehouse College alone) and the point becomes even more
obvious.

In spite of – or, actually, as a result of -- his impeccable gangsta
credentials, 50 basically curtsied before a President who stayed on
vacation for three days while black bodies floated down the New
Orleans streets. No wonder it took a middle-class preppie with an
African name and no criminal record to man up and tell the whole world
that "George Bush don't care about black folks." No wonder David
Banner – a rapper who is just a few credits short of a Master's Degree
in social work -- spearheaded hip hop's Katrina relief concerts, not
any of his thug counterparts who are eternally shouting out the hoods
they allegedly love.

The 50 Cent, whose music is a panoramic vision on black-on-black
homicide, and who went after Ja Rule with the vengeance of a dictator
killing off a hated ethnic minority did everything but tap dance when
Reebok told him to dismantle his porn production company or lose his
lucrative sneaker endorsement deal.

But why single out 50? Hip hop at-large was conspicuously silent when
Bush press secretary Tony Snow (a rapper's alias if ever there was
one) assaulted hip hop in terms way more inflammatory than Oprah's
mild request:
Take a look at the idiotic culture of hip-hop and whaddya have? You
have people glorifying failure. You have a bunch of gold-toothed hot
dogs become millionaires by running around and telling everybody else
that they oughtta be miserable failures and if they're really lucky
maybe they can get gunned down in a diner sometime, like Eminem's old
running mate.

(We're still awaiting an outraged response from the thug community for
that one.) Rush Limbaugh has blamed hip hop for everything short of
the Avian flu but I can't recall a single hip hop artist who has gone
after him lyrically, publicly or physically. Are we seeing a theme
yet?

It's worth noting that Ludacris did not devote as much energy to Bill
O'Reilly -- who attacked his music on his show regularly and caused
him to lose a multi-million dollar Pepsi endorsement – as he did to
criticizing Oprah who simply stated that she was tired of hip hop's
misogyny. Luda was content to diss O'Reilly on his next record and go
about his business. Anyone who heard the interview that Oprah gave on
Power 105.1 in New York knew she was speaking for a whole generation
of hip hop heads when she said that she loved the music, but she
wanted the artists to exercise some responsibility. But this response
is not really about Oprah, or ultimately about hip hop, either. It is
about black men once again choosing a black woman as the safest target
for their aggression even one will a billion dollars is still fair
game.

Of all their claims, the charge that Oprah sold out to win points with
her white audience is the most tragically laughable. The truth is that
her audience's white middle-class kids exert waaay more influence over
50 and Cube than their parents do over Oprah. I long ago tired of
Cube, a thirty-something successful director, entrepreneur and married
father of three children records about his aged recollections of a
thug's life. The gangsta theme went cliché eons ago, but Cube, 50 and
a whole array of their musical peers lack either the freedom or the
vision to talk about any broader element of our lives. The reality is
that the major labels and their majority white fan base will not
accept anything else from them.

And there we have it again: more masks, more lies.

It is not coincidental that hip hop has made n**** the most common
noun in popular music but you have almost never heard any certified
thug utter the word cracker, ofay, honky, peckerwood, wop, dago,
guinea, kike or any other white-oriented epithet. The reason for that
is simple: Massa ain't havin' it. The word fag, once a commonplace
derisive in the music has all but disappeared from hip hop's
vocabulary. (Yes, these thugs fear the backlash from white gays too.)
And female canine is still allowed with the common understanding that the term
is referring to black women. The point is this: debasement of black
communities is entirely acceptable – required even – by hip hop's
predominantly white consumer base.

We have lived enough history to know better by now – to know that
gangsta is Sonny Liston, the thug icon of his era, threatening to kill
Cassius Clay but completely impotent when it came to demanding that
his white handlers stop ripping him off. Gangsta is the black men at
the Parchman Farm prison in Mississippi who beat the civil rights
workers Fannie Lou Hamer and Annelle Ponder into bloody
unconsciousness because their white wardens told them to. Gangsta is
Michael Ervin, NFL bad boy remaining conspicuously mute on Monday
Night Football while Limbaugh dissed Donovan McNabb as an Affirmative
Action athlete. Gangsta is Bigger Thomas, scared, confused and
mystified by the ways of the white world.

Surely our ancestors' struggles were about more than creating
millionaires who could care less about us and tolerating their violent
disrespect out of a hunger for black success stories. Surely we are
not so desperate for heroes that we uphold cardboard icons because
they throw good glare. There's more required than that. The weight of
history demands more than simply this. Surely we understand that this
clash is not about hip hop or even self-promotion; it is about acting
out an age-old script. Taking the Tom Molineaux route. Spitting in the
wind and breaking black bones. Hoping to become free.

Or, at least a well-paid slave.

Here is the author's website with other essays
http://jelanicobb.com/portfolio.html

It is on point!

Precise. I'd love to be a student in one of his history classes...

audiences are intelligent. we don't need to know the where why how who and what of what these rappers are rappping about (sex, money and drugs). I don't blame oprah for not having them on.

That was a good read.

There are many interesting points. However, I guess that I wouldn't downplay Ludacris' response to Bill O'Reilley as much as the author did. I thought that it was significant, don't know if it was on par with his response to Oprah's comments.

However, I think that the author is right on about the use of AA *women* as scapegoats. I would extend this *beyond* hip-hop. Take the Clarence Thomas, Anita Hill debacle. Why was everyone so mad at her? B/c the culture is to blame women, especially if she speaks out about the ills of the man. But this happens with rape victims too, regardless of color, so maybe it's more about male-female relations than male-female relations w/in any given race. Not sure, just rambling at this point. LOL.

SC

I agree with you. I think women are scapegoats no matter what the race, and it's unfortunate.

Thanks for posting that Neosoulchild. That was on point, for real!

Good essay!

I completely agree with that summary.

*smh*