School Daze question.
 

On the Wikipedia page for Spike Lee's school daze, the Gamma Rays are called as a sorority. To me it fits more into the category of Sweetheart organization like Sigma Doves, Kappa Diamonds or Omega Pearls.

Opinions?

I agree with you, naraht. Then again it's wikipedia and they're not always the brightest bulbs in the chandelier.

True. But I do try to help them over there. (I'm primary editor right now for both the Alpha Phi Omega page and the Fraternities and Sororities in the Phillipines page. :)

As someone who is an avid Spike Lee fan- and viewer of School Daze on numerous occassions; I would have to say that yes they are a sweetheart organization. They made reference to the fact in the movie when they said they would have to help the brothers as they were crossing over with their initiation.

I saw them as an aux org as well.

Well a lot of organizations today are considered sororities and fraternities that historically wouldnt be viewed as such. For example, I mostly only view IFC and NPC groups as actual fraternities and sororities. Let people think as they will i suppose.

So what about people whose organizations are apart of the NPHC, MCGC or any other council thats out there.

I think that is fair because there are a lot of people in NPHC/MGLO don't view IFC and NPC groups as real sororities and fraternities.

Well see yeah it probably goes both ways. Its not that I really have made a conscious decision to disregard locals or NPHC or the other abbreviation, which I assumes meant multi-cultural something... but rather that I just haven't seen much to really place them on the same level as NPC and IFC groups. I'm sure its different everywhere, but I just haven't come in too much contact with them. I know some NPHC groups have strong tradition, which is really what is required for me to consider the group "real" i guess, but basically the closest to that where I went to school would be like a third annual stepshow or something. I imagine at schools where NPHC groups are more established, they have much stronger traditions. Regarding the multi-cultural groups, I do have an issue with these. Not to say that they couldn't fit my description of a "real" greek org, but moreso that the ones I've seen are fairly new and don't really have any legacy to speak of. They generally take anyone who walks in the door, and having a incredibly diverse group isn't what I think of when I think about greek orgs. But like I said, its different everywhere, and my opinions can only be based on what i've been exposed to.

I can agree with that, but in my dealings with fraternities & sororities in the IFC or NPC I see them doing alot of partying. They do more donations as oppose to actual community service where the members of the other 2 councils excell @.

Well, writing checks has its place as well. Now, I agree about the multicultural being very service oriented, but hadnt really seen that among the NPHC. I'm sure they do their share, but I just didn't notice them doing more than the white groups. But even if this is very true, I don't really think of them as "greek." While community service is obviously of the highest value, it is not a prereq for being a "real" greek org in my opinion. When I think greek, I think of groups where the focus is almost entirely on forming the bonds between members, in addition to helping bring those members into adulthood. I'm obviously not saying they're better that more service oriented groups, but I consider service groups to be just that, rather than greek organizations.

LMAO @ people who don't do any kind of research.

Teh Stupid.......it burns!
 

http://www.picpop.com/gallery/albums...argod_stop.jpg

You can stop reading any time you wish. I sincerely apologize if I don't give credibility to every house that claims "We're a fraternity!" But then, I haven't had Being Non-Offensive 1100 yet, so I'm still thinking for myself here. Hopefully one day I'll have the ability to simply regurgitate more inclusive opinions that are sure not to offend or hold any legitimacy, but until then, you'll just have to fight through the "stupidity" of my posts.

Stop with the ignorance.
 

What's offensive is that the fact you're willing to say this AND admit that you haven't seen any (i.e. not come in contact with) of the other orgs.

Heck if you seen them and feel that way then that's your opinion and although folks would feel (know) that you're wrong you still have the right to form an opinion. Right now you're saying that you don't "considered" them on your orgs level because you haven't seen much.

I haven't heard of yoru org until today but I wouldn't go as far as to say what you're saying.


So tell me is it true? Is ignorance really as blissful as they say?

BrownSugar, that was very much on point and very much true! So as much as I hear people complaining about what Shinerbock is saying, it is no different than what I have heard people in NPHC/MCGLO and other groups say about NIC/NPC groups.

What goes around comes around.

Those people, if they are actually serious instead of just trying to clown, are idiots.

Regardless of people's opinions of the differences between the organizations, there is no denying that the NPHC, NIC, IFC, or whatever other umbrella organization does not have a monopoly over "fraternity and sorority."

Shortfuse, I'm afraid your attempt at a rational post came out poorly. I think what you're accusing me of is being ignorant because I don't view them as true greek organizations even when I haven't had a great deal of contact with them. Here is where literacy would be to your benefit. If you reread my posts, you'll see that on several occasions I note that my opinions are just that, and that they are based solely on what I have been exposed to. AT MY SCHOOL, NPHC groups are only the same or less likely to do charitable work. We don't really have any multi cultural groups, and if we do they obviously have little influence. On a similar note, the one or two local groups we have do not have any influence, prominant alumni, or history to speak of. Thus, I do not consider them on the same level with the large historic IFC and NPC groups who have all of those aforementioned qualities. I think my interpretation of NPHC groups, or classification, would have to be something more like "black greek life," because it is so distinctive from most IFC and NPC groups I've been around. If they want to term my way of greek life "white greek life" they can, although I imagine we've been at it longer. It is all based on perspective, so my interpretation of what greek life is need not offend anyone, as it is not intended to do so.

Most of the NPHC groups have been around for close to 100 yrs now. Im not sure how long your org has been around but there is a lot of tradition with NPHC groups as well.

I imagine they do have plenty of history and tradition.

Don't imagine....KNOW that they do.

No thanks, I'll just continue to imagine. The functioning and history of NPHC groups isnt of overwhelming interest to me anyhow.

The "elitism" that you attempt to show in your posts often comes through as provincial "ignorance."

:rolleyes:
It's amazing how racisim and elitism forms itself into subtle arenas. ...To change your opinion and/or increase your knowledge so that you can EXPOSE yourself to something other than you've seen, why don't you actually try doing some research....each organization in the NPHC has a NATIONAL website with their history...try taking a look. I may not be interested in joining a NPC or IFC organization, but that doesn't stop me from learning what they are about and what they do!

Ignorance is just a small word to describe your view/opinion. :(

Yes you're correct, I'm ignorant and racist. The fact that you accuse me as such simply displays to me that you are not only ignorant, but incapable of rational thought. I realize that literacy may not come naturally to you, but if you glance above you'll notice that I said I believed those organizations did have plenty of history. I'm not in them, so I wouldn't know exactly what that entails. Doing some research wouldn't really help either, seeing as my Kappa Sig friends claim they were founded in Biblical times, so I don't really accept overly much that I don't experience for myself. Also, I really don't care that much. I have other things to concern myself than extensive research of groups I'm not that concerned with. I'm sure they will continue on just fine without my interest. Sure, you can call that ideology "ignorance," but if not blanketly accepting what I'm given is "ignorance" then I'm proud to be termed as such. How exactly does this make me racist? Because when I think greek I think IFC and NPC? Well then fine, call me racist. I'm also a Republican and against Affirmative Action, so why don't you go ahead and tack on bigot to your unfounded classification of my personality. The kind of comments you've displayed remind me of the intellectual brilliance shown through comments like "George Bush hates black people." Keep up the good work.

To respond to your last statement...

For your information, I am very much a supporter of our current Commander-in-Chief, President George Bush! And no, I am not in the group of African-Americans/Blacks who have made and/or necessarily agree/disagree with the statement "George Bush hates black people".

But to the issue at hand, my point was before stating that only IFC and NPC organizations are the only TRUE greek organizations, whether it is of interest to you or not, RESEARCH will show you that NPHC organizations are very much TRUE greek organizations and do more than just party and socialize. As you have mentioned, your opinions were formed based on what you were exposed to. I'm asking you/more like presenting to you, go beyond your exposure level...branch out, research....That will help you in your irrational thought process!

You don't have to become a part of an organization to inquire about their activities, their service, their history. Of course, in all things there are some things that will not be available to the public...however, there is no doubt in my mind that they wouldn't help you see "the big picture", eliminating the clouds that stand in front of you.

For your information check out the founding dates for the NPHC organizations:
Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Cornell University, 1906
Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Howard University, 1908
Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity, Indiana University, 1911
Omega Psi Phi Fraternity, Howard University, 1911
Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Howard University, 1913
Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Howard University, 1914
Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Howard University, 1920
Sigma Gamma Rho Sorority, Butler University, 1922
Iota Phi Theta Fraternity, Morgan State University, 1963

Role models, community activists, entertainers, politicians, relationship builders, life changers, physicians, lawyers, etc....all have emerged through the influence that members of these organizations have had and will continue to have.

So my question to you...what makes the NPHC organizations any less GREEK than IFC/NPC organizations?

Why is it when someone makes a personel statement about not knowing anything about a specfic GLO grouping, the Race/Bigot card is thrown on the table.

I am always amazed by who throws it out first. Well, not really.:rolleyes:

There is a difference, ideas, and thoughts of different GLOs will vary.

Congratulations on many NPHC GLOs who have been around for @ 100 Years.

But, some of the IFC/PHC GLOs have been around longer.

Now why dont some of you tell me about those histories.

Tit for tat as it were!

You continue to not understand what my statements were regarding...I have continuously stated that these are merely my opinions of what a "true greek life" is. Just as I think most greek life in the north east isn't the same as what I consider greek life, it is also different amongst NPHC groups. I'm not saying they are "lesser" greek organizations, I'm saying I don't really view them as greek organizations. When I think of greek life, I think of classic, historic groups of men and women on major campuses who use their time in the organization to form valuable bonds and to act almost as a sort of cotillion, to bring them up into a classy and mature adult world. I am sure that many good and successful people come from NPHC groups. I'm trying to think of a comparison...alright...when we (southern people) refer to greek life at big universities, there is often confusion. People will think we are referring to any state school, such as Oswego State, Wisconsin, etc, when in actuality we have taken the phrase "big state school" to refer only to the big SEC greek schools where classic greek life thrives. Likewise, I have somewhat taken "greek" to mean what I consider to be the truest form of greek life. Now that may sound selfish or narcisistic, and it might be, but it is just my opinion. Doing so makes no statements about NPHC groups, other than they are quite different than any greek organization I would be interested in joining. I know this is probably confusing, but it is just difficult for me to refer to NPHC groups as in the same overall catagory as my GLO, as I'm sure it may be weird for NPHC members to include themselves in any catagory with me. I think a phrase like student life groups would be helpful for me...

My last comment (or at least I will try) many NPHC organizations do what you have mentioned above...

While I didn't fully understand your comment, I assume you meant that NPHC groups fit that description. You have knowledge of about it, so I assume you're right on some levels. However, I didn't know they put emphasis on that "cotillion" like education that I was referring to. We try and prepare our guys for lives in professional fields, as our alumni include congressmen, attorneys and corporate execs. While I have no doubt that black fraternity create attorneys and the like, the ones on my campus didn't seem to place the emphasis on that type of training like the IFC fraternities do. But again, that was just my impression. I'll keep you posted after I get in the legal world, perhaps I'll work with some black professionals who attribute it to their NPHC group.

Call me racist, but the black fraternities I have seen remind me more of a street gang then a fraternity. I know that while most people are too PC to admitt it publicly, they would agree with that statement. Are all of them that way? No. Are most of them? Yes.

And by the way, I can't believe you're actually bragging about founding dates in the 1900s.

Is there something wrong with that??? Please elaborate on this...

I don't think bowsandtoes realizes that african americans weren't free or welcome in his organization at the time that many of the NPHC groups were founded...don't worry....it's just his stupidity and ignorance showing....:confused:



but he probably thinks he's super smart and cool.

See, this is what bothers me. Someone makes an honest statement, and gives credit to the idea that it is probably not that way everywhere, and gets called racist and ignorant...

Regarding your comments about blacks not being free or allowed to join...I don't know if that is the entire reason. The organizations are not simply black replicas of their previous white counterparts, but rather have entirely different goals and activities. My fraternity still has never had a black person, not because we are white trash racists, but because we have different ideologies, and just as a black person probably wouldn't get much out of our fraternity, he probably wouldn't fit in in our organization.

It's not an honest statement, it's his opinion. And to make himself look even more ignorant, elitist, and stupid, he goes with the "if it's older, it must be better" comment by jabbing somebody else's organization just because it was founded after his. And I'm trying to make the point that it was founded after his because the founding members weren't welcome in bowsandtoes organization because of racial attitudes/exclusion policies at the time. Don't tell me if there was a black student who wanted to be a Kappa Sig in 1900 they would have been allowed/welcomed with open arms into the brotherhood.

I'm not even telling you a black guy would be met with open arms today in Kappa Sig. If you truly want to get into why black fraternities were founded after white fraternities, its not only because they werent allowed in white fraternities, but also because they weren't even in college when many IFC fraternities were founded. You're right, it is his opinion, but you didn't do anything to refute it, only began calling names. If you want to refute the somewhat thuggish image black fraternities may have in parts of the country, why not highlight the ones that create lawyers and doctors and politicians. As somebody who went to school at a major southern university, I think I understand somewhat what he's saying. There were only 3 things I ever heard out of NPHC groups...1) That they were having a big blowout party at some club for black university students 2) That they were doing/sponsoring a stepshow or 3) that they were having some sort of forum/speaker/etc regarding racial inequality. Note I didn't say thats ALL they did, thats just all they publicized. So yeah, I never felt like they were anything like the same greek community that I belonged to.

Your ignorance really shows. I think I know a little something about big southern universities--I'm an alum of UGA, class of 2001. I also know a little something about the NPHC groups. One of my friends my freshman year was a sister of Sigma Gamma Rho. They do quite a bit of service in addition to the stepshows and parties at the nightclubs you talk about. I remember a workshop in the dorms about campus safety sponsored by her sorority and the UGA police department. There was also a panel discussion in the dorms about the differences/similarities between "white greeks" and "black greeks". It was really interesting and brought up many of the points discussed in this thread. During spring semester, all of the girls on my hall attended the step show to support our friend in SGR. Despite the notion of a "thuggish/street gang" atmosphere, it was anything but. My friends and I had a great time supporting our friend and nobody got cut, mugged, or stabbed. Gee, what a surprise!:eek: Now that I'm a teacher, I work with several women who are active members of graduate chapters of Alpha Kappa Alpha and Delta Sigma Theta. They still do active service projects, such as a science camp for teenage girls. Anything thuggish about that? And my experience is by observation only--I'm a member of a "white sorority"

Right, so again I'm ignorant how? Because I simply state what I've seen? I never said they arent active in philanthropy, I simply stated how they presented their organization on my campus. The only thing I said they WERE NOT, is something similar to the greek community I have been involved in, which you did not refute. I currently attend the University of Georgia, and hopefully I won't come out as ridiculously accusatory as you have.

Say it ain't so. :(

Well...that I have to agree would explain all of the posts...