Laptops: Mac vs. everyone else
 

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MHO....
 

Re: Laptops: Mac vs. everyone else
 

I would not advice a Mac for law school. Many law schools are allowing students to take their exams on laptops, and some of the software is not compatible for macs. Also, some states let you take the bar exam on a laptop, and I know for certain that you could not do it with a Mac in PA. A lot of schools give you various pieces of software free, and they may not support Mac versions.

I have had 2 Dells. The first one I had some problems on, but they were quickly fixed, and I must say that their warranty service is exceptional. Picked up from me, fixed AND returned within 48 hours. The laptop that I bought in 2002 right before starting law school is still going strong.

I purchased another, smaller, Dell a few months ago, the 700m. It's about the same size as a Vaio. Got it fully loaded with all kinds of stuff for MUCH cheaper than a Vaio.

Vaio's, which cute, have a reputation for having a lot of problems, including overheating. Sony's service, even on warranty repairs, its notoriously horrid. I had a HUGE crush on the Vaio, but i'm thrilled with my Dell 700M.

It is a good thing to look into something smaller. You'll be lugging it around with you. No matter what kind you buy, get the extended warranty. With a laptop that you'll be using heavily and lugging around frequently, you want to have the coverage. I made the mistake of buying a bigger behemoth before law school, and it was a pain to carry around.

Make sure you have a CD burner.

IBMs are workhorses, but the smaller ones are pretty expensive and don't come with much- for many of the things that easily fit into my little Dell (such as CD/DVD burner), you need a docking station for with the IBM.

HPs tend to be larger and their fans are annoyingly loud in class, lol.

And as an aside, I've never heard of a law firm using Macs so I think PCs are preferred in general in the legal field.

Get a pink MAC and tell everyone that Elle Woods is your personal hero.;) :p

My dad actually just got me a GQ laptop from Frys for school, and I really love it! It's very simple, much better than Dell, and only cost like 500$. It's a ZX3310, and I love that it has a 15 inch screen, i don't need a Wifi card, and it's silver(a selling point for me, lol). There's a few things i don't really care for, like I'd like a bigger hard drive (only 40 gb) and it only has 256 memory, and it's a little heavier than I'd like, but then again the majority of the faults are pretty easy to change.

Never heard of that company, wonder how the service and warranty are. Have you had a Dell?

Definitely invest in more memory. 256 is not enough anymore and will not last you a long time before your computer greatly slows down as you get more on it. Laptop memory generally isn't all that cheap and can be very difficult to install yourself.

For law school, you want functionality and cuteness and something that is going to last. You're not going to have the funds to fork over for a new computer come 3L.

Yeah dude, make sure your law school's networks and exam programs and whatever else works with a Mac, because my school is like technologically impaired, and even people with PC laptops have problems.

A couple of my friends have Vaios, they seem to like them. 2 people in our class have those super sweet laptops that you can turn the screen all different ways, flip it back like a notebook so it's flat, and draw on the screen with a little stylus. I have no idea what company makes them, but I think those are awesome and I want one.

That all being said, I handwrite all my notes and then later I use them to type my outlines on my laptop (a Dell). I hate taking my laptop out for class. Some people love it though, the only time I've ever seen them handwrite something was their initials on the role sheet - and they borrowed my pen for that!

Another law school must have: a flash drive. The bigger, the better, just don't lose it! You definitely want to back up those outlines and papers in case your computer self destructs (which happened to me twice in undergrad).

-Most laptop memory is actually quite easy to install - newer machines generally have a direct-access panel to the DIMM slots (may not apply to Dell).

-Also, expense is variable depending on the type you require - look online for better deals, but realistically it shouldn't be brutal (although more than comparable memory for a desktop).

Past that, Dani is completely correct about memory issues.

For the one that I put memory in, I could put in one myself, but there was no direct access to the other slot. I had a friend who does this sort of thing for a living take it apart to get to the other slot to replace that stick. The laptop was able to take that much memory, I did my research, just was a huge task.

Also, check out refurbished laptops on the manufacturer's websites. That's actually where I got my first Dell. Got a great deal, not a thing wrong with it, same warranty and everything, good as new and looked new.

They're tablet pc's. My boss has one by Fujitsu and loves it. A lot of other companies make them as well. They can get pretty pricey though.

I think Toshiba makes some. I have a Toshiba Satellite laptop and love it. LOVE IT!

Sounds like an expensive toy. The tablet could be fun, but how often would you use it? It could occasionally be useful for a flow chart or something, but other than that, I'm not sure how useful it would be in lawschool. And I wonder if something like that is more delicate?

Laptops used in law school go through a lot of wear because you're constantly opening and closing them to move from class to class, to home and to the library, so you need something that will hold up to it.

Interesting - I've never seen that, but I'm by no means a pro. That would definitely suck - perhaps something to check out when purchasing, if you plan to upgrade . . .

It's a good electronics store on the West Coast. Their warranties and service should be as good as, if not better than, Best Buy.

Unless you're going to go to school for design, don't get a Mac--and this comes from someone who loves loves loves Macs.

Read my post and discount everyone else in this thread because they don't know what they are talking about.

The MacBook runs on Intel architecture just like most Windows laptops. In terms of bang for the buck, you get a bigger bang for the buck with a MacBook than you do with other laptops. The chips used in the macbook are dual core and pretty high end for the laptop market. Intel actually made a deal with Apple to provide them with the better chips before any other manufacturer like Dell.

The only thing that the MacBook does not have is a dedicated graphics unit because it integrates it. That will not affect you and won't affect most people. To have that you need to spend more to buy the MacBook pro and then you don't get the same bang for the buck.

As for taking it to class and home, the MacBooks have bluetooth so you can buy a bluetooth keyboard and mouse and leave them at home. They wirelessly link to your laptop.

Apple OS X is the operating system for Macs. Software like Microsoft Office was created specifically to run on this operating system. It's considered much more advanced than Windows and much safer. But given that the new Macs all use Intel chips, you can run Microsoft Windows on them. That means they run ALL (not some) of the Windows software out there.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/

And even before Macs had Intel chips, they used powerpc architecture. There were programs that created virtual environments that allowed for Windows to run on them, albeit in a slower fashion, but unless you were doing multimedia or hardcore data mining work, that speed wasn't an issue.

So in other words, kddani does not know what she is talking about and should apologize to you for leading you astray :)

-Rudey

I have, and travel with, a Dell Latitude C610. It's about middle-of-the-line, but it does what I want it to do, and I'm typing on it now. :)

My tech friend got it for me as surplus from his place of employment (thank you, Boeing!), so I'm not going to look a virtually free laptop in the screen.

I'm satisfied with it, though I wish it were a little faster...

Seriously bubblz, get a freakin Mac. I'm getting one in a few months, and I'm going to walk around telling people that not only am I cooler, richer and better looking than them, but that my computer can kick their computers ass.

Macbook Bubblz. Remember that.

As much as I love my snowy white pristine iBook with the wide screen and the iPod dock that matches...

Many of the programs required to take the tests in Law School don't seem to be available for Macs. Though, you can either dual install Windows or run an emulator.

I reccomend to check with the law school you are planning on attending first.

OSX Tiger is awesome btw.

I have Virtual PC on my Mac, and I can run PC software.

That statement is like saying that if you buy a PC from 1995 it won't run many of today's windows programs. You have an older computer. A mac will run every windows program without an emulator.

-Rudey

(I have the last iBook model to come out, so my computer isn't that old. It was right before they introducted the MacBook. Plus, if it was that old it wouldn't run Tiger.)

I don't know if this is exactly true, but now that I think of it, I haven't had any problems running any program I wanted on my Mac.

The macbook is the new version of the ibook but with a different name. The ibook that you had, had a G4 processor that hadn't been updated in years and was the cause for Apple switching to Intel.

-Rudey

Rudey pretty much explained to you why you're wrong - the new architecture does, in fact, account for ANY translation issues.

This means ANY law school software than can be run in Windows can be run on the MacBook, because the MacBooks actually RUN WindowsXP (it's not 'virtualWindows' anymore).

Since when is there law school software? WTF? Can't you people read books and use Westlaw or Lexis on the internet like normal people? What else is there?

We use ExamSoft to take exams. It basically shuts you out of every other program on your computer except for ExamSoft, and you type your exam. It's kinda of like a word processing program I guess, I handwrote my exams. When the exam is over, you save your exam and close the program, then you upload it to the registrar through the internet. There's other details, don't worry, no one can write stuff and save it in there before the exam, because once you save a document, you can't open it again. There's no way to cheat around the software.

The Tablet PC is a waste of money unless you are into graphic designing and want to actually draw on it and import the graphics. The ones I'm most familiar with are made by Motion Computing. If you don't purchase a keyboard for it, you have to use the stylus to type or write like you do on a PDA to "type". With the Motion Computing one, EVERYTHING is a plug in accessory. CD drive, Floppy drive, etc. There isn't anything built in except the ports for things to plug into. So, you get this really cool tiny tablet thing and you have to have at least 3 accessories to really use it (mouse, keyboard and CD/DVD Rom). The keyboards for them also act as a stand and as a cover for the Tablet. They feel really flimsy and typing on them, I worry I'm typing too hard.

I hear people rave about Vaios and I don't get it. Granted, mine was one of the earlier models, but it overheated a lot. I also had several keys just stop working.. the 6, the - and the delete key. It made things interesting, especially since my phone number has several 6's in it and my username on Yahoo has an _ in it (the shift of -). When I called Tech Support, they insisted it was an Operating System problem and had me re-install the OS over and over. It needed a new keyboard is what it needed. I do this for a living and KNEW what the problem was. They wouldn't fix it. I wouldn't touch another one.

The laptop I would like to have is the Dell Latitude D410. It's lightweight, very portable and comes with a docking station that has all your extras (CD/DVD and additional ports). Even WITH the docking station, it's slimmer than most others. One of our PhDs just got one and I was really drooling over it. It's much easier to get parts for Dells if you want to fix them yourself. They are pretty easy to disassemble too and have all their service manuals online, with step by step directions for replacing/upgrading parts. Their tech support is top notch and I would ALWAYS get the 3 year next day service level of support.

I've also had Canons, IBM Think Pads, and an Acer and I've worked with Toshibas. If I was going to get anything other than Dell, it would be Toshiba. We've never had an issue with any of our Toshiba laptops.

I am typing from my MacBook Pro as we speak, and I LOVE IT! It's lightening fast-- has 2.0 GHz with an Intel core.

I have had two other Macs.. they never break, and they never get viruses. I STILL have my old Performa 600Cd from 1994, (with a whopping 8 megs of Ram-- LOL!) and it still works! I use it for word processing since I have a fabulous Apple Laser Printer (which also never breaks) that is incompatable with my newer Macs.

I have a Dell at work, and it's forever crashing and getting worms and viruses. Consumer Reports rated Apple above all the other computers for service. But then.. who needs service? They don't break!

I love my Mac.

It's worth the extra $'s!

TAKE THIS ADVICE.

I know at my school a couple people have Macs. They can't take the exams on them, but we can take the exams in the computer lab if you don't have a computer or have a Mac. I do this too because my Toshiba crashed in the middle of our contracts exam and I haven't really forgiven it. You should find out if your school has an option like that available.

Oh, also, get some sort of case to carry whatever you get in. I have a little CaseLogic one I got off eBags that I keep in my regular bag - but unfortunately I didn't get it until I had already scratched my laptop up (not a big deal) and jacked up the power port (big deal).

I have a macbook pro and I am seriously considering marrying it.

Ok now that I have your attention... I never used a mac before this and I thought it would be hard to learn. I got it as a bday present it March and it is the best computer ever and now I am completely sold on Macs. It is not the cheapest computer out there, but, it doesn't crash, I don't worry about viruses, it is soooo amazingly fast, and it so incredibly easy to use. It comes packed with software and I mainly use it now for school-I am in a doc program, so it is my research tool. It has a buitl in camera, it's own programs for instant messaging, calendar tools, this program called garage band (so you can make your own movies). It is compatible with word and excel and comes with a trial version that you can buy but if your school has a software deal like mine does then you can get it from your school for free. If you are into blogging and making websites-it has programs for that too-I haven't tried those on mine yet.

The only draw back for me is that I can't find as many games as I could for my old PC. (that sounded really geeky) But it really is an amazing machine.

You can install Windows on it and run every single game out there.

-Rudey

Personally, I'd get a PC. For the most part, univeristy networks are PC or Unix based, and mac support is few and far between because they are in SUCH a minority and the training for them is limited by the realitities of budgeting.

If you end up with a wifi networking issue or something, you'll likely end up having to talk to some Mac geek who's not really IT support staff, just a guy that works in the advertising or graphic design department... because that's the only place on most campuses you'll find Macs.


If you're looking for the best price, here's a couple things for you:

www.tigerdirect.com

www.pricewatch.com

Or... watch the best buy newspaper inserts for those great deals they have. 24 months free financing on the Best Buy card? GREAT stuff there. You can pay like $1000 and get a $400 rebate, then finance the rest over time.

I have a high-end HP wide-screen from Best Buy, probably close to two years old. I do graphic design work on it, plus all the standard "office" functions. Great machine, never a problem.

One other thing to note about Mac vs. PC... If you have or are used to "borrowing" software from friends, for the most part on a Mac you will have to buy everything. (Not that I'm advocating anything here, but something to keep in mind)

Suggestions:

1] Make sure you get virus software that updates online automatically.

2] Make sure that virus software includes Adware stuff too.

3] Never put your real email address in the settings inside Internet Explorer. Websites grab it and you'll get spammed all to heck and back.

Is WindowsXP their OS or can they also just run it? The reason I'm asking is ExamSoft and Secure Exam both shut down EVERY OTHER PROGRAM that you might be running so I could still see there being a problem.

Please don't offer computer advice if you don't know about it. At the very least, read what others wrote.

This is getting ridiculous.

You will rarely have that trouble on OS X because it's well integrated and a strong nix based OS. All campuses have IT staff that runs nix boxes, windows boxes, and os x boxes and I'd be willing to bet most of their servers are nix/bsd boxes. Plus you won't have a "wifi issue". You simply take your mouse to the top, click, and select the network you want to join. It couldn't get easier than that.

And, once again, you can run every single PC program once you install Windows. You can pirate the majority of mac programs just like you can with Windows. You can use limewire, poisoned, acquisition, or torrents to grab them or simply use someone else's CD if you feel like stealing.

And geeky, you can install Windows XP as an OS. You can install most operating systems on a mac. Examsoft won't shut it down. You can tell your IT department that you have a PC with Windows installed on it even if you have a Mac.

-Rudey

Then she should probably be okay but if her law school's IT department sucks as mine, maybe not. She should just call and ask if she can take exams in a lab. I do that because my computer and Secure Exam don't get along.

-GP
--Is sitting here plugged into an ethernet cable because they broke the wireless printing

As much as I'm a massive PC homer, this problem in particular may actually be 'better' on a Mac, due to architecture issues and the way Windows interacts with the CPU.

Well...

Being the computer geek that I am and have been since 1981, and having had recent experience with a friend with a brand new Mac laptop (OS X) that had noting but issues getting networked at Marquette for the better part of a semester...

I may be slightly biased since all I had to do was email the help desk for a network key for my PC laptop. As I stated, I'm a comp geek and can work network settings, etc. pretty well. dealing with configuration settings, etc. is pretty much second nature after all this time. My Mac experience is pretty extensive as well as my PC experience.

I have friends with a G5, and every file they send me, every email, every little graphic, seems to have issues on both my PC at work and my PC at home. This is using the native Mac stuff that came right with they OSX system. Meanwhile, if they send it to my Marquette address, which I read on a Mac, I have zero issues. VERY PROPRIETARY EVEN THROUGH ALL THE COMPATABILITY HYPE.

Not sure how web apps, etc. will treat a Mac. The OS X boxes in my department at Marquette don't like web based MS Outlook and have significant issues with FTP transfers in both fetch and browser windows. There are definite font and compatability issues in Word, Excel and all the populate MS software when moving between Mac and PC. (Macs and PCs have completely different architecture as to how they handle fonts.) My Mac lab at Marquette won't print anything to the network printers unless the file has been converted to a PDF first.

Macs have been, and probably always will be, the best machines out there for graphic design, video, audio, etc.
Apple is trying to take over some of the home market with some success, as a home setup can be limited to just macs and just mac networking stuff.

Interacting with the University is another matter completely.

I have zero experience with Macs running XP as native. However, I do know it's pretty new, and in general my experiences with anything new from MSRedmond is that it takes a while to get patched up to stable.

Truthfully, and waaay back to the original question, talk to your University, and in particular the Law School. What they recommend as optimal is probably best for what you will run into in their program.

Marquette's IT department SUCKS. This is what the problem was. Have you ever used an on-campus comptuer there? They suck too.

I could see that. I teach design at MU, so I use the Macs all the time...

Never used a PC there other than my laptop.

I can't say for sure. One of my employees can WiFi fine here at work, but my mother-in-law's boyfriend has issues with my WiFi at home. Even with the network key he can't get in WiFi, but does OK when plugged in directly to the router.

(Both on Macs, by the way)

I'm getting really frustrated with the geek advice that's supposedly being given.

Donna, buy a macbook. It's cheaper than most other laptops out there for that performance level. Then install Windows XP on it. You now have a PC. Your husband can't say anything.

And I have never had an issue logging into networks around the world with my powerbook. I have done wifi off of a/b/g networks everywhere. Go to any starbucks and you'll see mac users on the web. I can log onto MS Outlook servers using just OS X and if I was worried about it, I could log in using Outlook since, once again, Macs run Windows. You do not need separate and special routers.

And to the guy from Marquette, your IT department makes no sense if they don't know what's going on. I even googled it and found support for Panther up on their site: http://www.marquette.edu/pages/home/its/help/cm/datemac and I bet they are running macs in quite a few of their labs and I would almost bet that they are not running most of their servers off of Windows. If they are, then they are stupid morons. I don't know what files you and your friends send to each other, but I can open everything from Adobe files to music files to Word files to Quicken files without a single problem just like anyone else I know when going between macs and pcs. Also, running Windows on macs is not unstable or new or scary. Windows uses BIOS still and bootcamp essentially allows Window to run without that. Other than that, you have an Intel chip and the hardware is not different from any other PC.

-Rudey