Compulsory Military Service: Yes? No? Maybe So?
 

What do you all think of the concept of implementing compulsory military service in the United States?

On one hand, people shouldn't be told they have to give up a few years of their lives to do something potentially dangerous.

On the other hand, the military exists to protect our country and its interests and by requiring people to serve it lets us all share equally in that responsibility.

I'm out of hands and I'd love to hear what everyone has to say about it...

I'm not sure that all people are cut out for military service, personally. What I support is a two year community service OR military service requirement. Individuals could choose which one works for them. Also, people with medical issues could still do some sort of community service even if they didn't qualify for the military.

Knowing what I was like at 18, I think something like boot camp would have torn me down beyond repair. At that point in my life I had no self esteem and I think a drill sergeant would have sent me into a suicidal depression. I also have a deep seated ..not sure what to call it, I guess it's a fear.. of guns. If I had to hold and shoot a gun, I think I would lose it. I really don't think you'd want someone as thin-skinned as I am serving in the military! I don't think my comrades would feel I would have their back.

However, I would have done great in something like the Peace Corps or building Habitat for Humanity homes, doing City Year, volunteering for the Red Cross, etc.

I think most 18 year olds (of course there are exceptions, myself included) who really don't know what they want to do with their lives and spend the first couple years of college meandering from major to major trying to find their niche. This would both serve our country (in a variety of ways) and give them some time to figure things out before they get to a college atmosphere.

Used to be Selective Service and all Males, not including Females had to register for it.

I think We are one of the few Countrys who do not require this anymore.

I would agree with it once again with certain restrictions.

I would support a draft. I'd also enroll in a PhD program in another country coincidentally at the same time that there was a draft.

-Rudey

There's no draft, but 18 year old young men have to register with Selective Service.

Being a person who could easily have been drafted (thank you ROTC in my case), I would rather not see it reinstated -- at least as it was, which is to say pretty unfair in terms of who was most affected.

I might be able to support mandatory government service of some king -- depending on how it would work and how it was administered.

I've always been an admirer of Israel's military system. Both men and women serve 2-3 years compulsory service to the country in some manner. At first, everyone needed to know basic military training, and I'm sure that went a long way towards their country being so strong now. There's more about it here.

I agree with AGDee that the military isn't for everyone, but there are so many other options available to provide service to your country.

It would be a pain in the ass to have to work with people who don't want to do their job.

Which, of course, is exactly what working in almost any company or job is like. There's always someone who doesn't want to be there.

Their country being strong has nothing to do with the billions of dollars worth of foriegn aid sent in by the U.S., does it?

I know the Israeli military can kick some ass, but give some credit to the American taxpayer!

I think that conscription might not work out so well. Wouldn't there be isues with desertment, fragging, etc?

No. I don't agree with making high school students do community service to graduate either, not that anyone asked.

Re: Compulsory Military Service: Yes? No? Maybe So?
 

I don't think its a good idea. Primarily because I would never do it. Those who want to serve should.

There's a bit of difference between someone not wanting to turn in a report, and someone not covering your back when you're being shot at by the enemy. I'm not sure the two situations are comparable.

My dad was drafted and served, my grandfathers both served, so on one hand, I don't see why I should be spared from serving. On the other hand, I think a committed force is much better than one that has been drafted, and may not even want to serve.

Of course it may be a moot point for me, as I'm not sure if I could serve with my heart condition.

I wouldn't dream of it. But if everyone in a country is prepared to defend it in some way (in the military, childcare, eldercare, food banks, etc), it only strengthens the nation.

This didn't address the question at all.

-RC
--Food banks?? WTF?

Her cousin is Jewish but Christian so you shutup.

-Rudey

Agreed. Also, it's easy to say that mandatory military/community/whatever service is a good idea when you're well past the age of having to do it.

I'd rather see the U.S. be more selective of where it sends troops instead of instituting some form of compulsory service.

totally agree - this is a plan i could support

- marissa

On the one hand, it's a lot easier to lead volunteers than to motivate and lead draftees. On the other, it occurs to me that the price of citizenship is to put something back into the country. A national service program sounds good, but needs and requirements must come first. All national service personnel can't be in the Peace Corps. So, within the limits of availability and balanced against the needs of whatever service is required I would go along with a national service program with the clear understanding that while your preferences should be honored if possible the ultimate decision of what you are assigned to do must be based on the needs of the nation, not the preferences of the one doing national service. A self centered agenda must be subordinate to the bigger picture if the situation demands this.
In an ideal world we would all have our first choice of assignment and those who elect the military option would not be required to serve in a combat role but would be the garrison troops holding the fort back home while the Regular (volunteer) forces did the hard jobs. A national service person could volunteer for combat duty but would not be required to do so unless we were engaged in a war of national survival like WWII. Wishful thinking and plenty of areas for discussion and disagreement but its a start point. When I did my deployment I had all volunteers to work with. When my Dad was in Viet Nam he had a mix of draftees and Regulars so his leadership tasks were a bit more challenging than mine. At least we both got all our guys back home alive and mostly intact.
My personal belief is that we all owe our country a debt of service that every citizen must address. There are surely many ways to accomplish this, my way was to serve in the Army and to actively pursue 'pro bono' work now.

FWIW, I have been in favor of the system of military/community service since I was a sophmore in high school - when I first heard of it.

dekeguy - you make excellent points.

Even as an active member of APO, I've always found the required 50 or so hours of community service for HS students, dumb as hell...if not somewhat counterproductive.

Well, so do it. Quit your job and do community service for two years (unless you already have done it).

Exactly. I doubt very much that students who are forced into community service develop a love of it. Plus, I'm guessing that there are some students who play the system and get away with doing things like putting down cheerleading as community service.

Just how do You know that Students who are forced into Community Servise do not learn something?

Yes, maybe they will find out being primadonas will and learn other things.

If they dont then where do they end up?

Damn sure not in College will they?:rolleyes:

Oh Hell, Being a Cheer Leader is Community Servitued?

Maybe You have no idea what these People do!

It isnt a bed of Roses! Ask any Cheer Leader Here how damn hard it is!

The consequences may be different, but to the leader -- manager or officer -- and the others in a unit, the dynamics are the same, I think. The person who doesn't want to be there makes it difficult for that leader, and everyone else. It's something we all have to deal with, one way or the other, for life.

DeltAlum, I am trying to read Your answer and form a response.

Yes, there is a Structure for Any Business and this also includes the Military.

So, While I do not actually want to conscript any one for Military Service, then, if they are going to Recruit Men/Women for That service then be truthful and pay them as such with the Major benefits.

But, the problem is We Leave many times them out but with lip service!

what is this mandatory community service to graduate high school? I have never heard of it

I think that you should either have to serve in the military or get some type of college education

Some school systems throughout the country have instituted that requirement for high school students to graduate. This can be fulfilled either by tutoring younger students, for example.

As for universal military service, unless we get in a situation where the safety and stability of our nation is directly threatened (i.e. outright invasion or a nuke attack), it's just not going to fly. I can see it being done in Israel, where they're almost completely surrounded by their enemies.

In the words of an Irish pub tune, NO, NAY, NEVER, NO MORE!

I just think it is counter productive to the spirit of service to FORCE someone to do community work. And I don't think it would help chairities at all, because people aren't doing the work because they *want* to, theyre just there taking up space because they don't feel like shooting/being shot at.

Honestly, if there's ever a draft or forced conscription, that's the last straw for me. Eff it. I'd up and move back here to the UK/ Eire. I'd rather denounce my citizenship than FORCE people into life courses they don't want to do. That's part of that whole "persuit of happiness" thing. Personally, my persuit of happiness is in university, not shooting people, and not being FORCED to serve my community. I serve my community because I WANT to, not because the government is giving me a choice between Meals on Wheels and a machine gun.

Service, true community service, should be a DESIRE, something you WANT to do because you have compassion and care for your neighbor, anything else I think is antithetical to that.

And what about young people with children? Ship them off to some godforsaken piece of land? Or make them do voluntary service and not have a job, making them rely on the gov't for more handouts, not to mention taking them away from their children?

Umm, the service would be your job for two years. You would get paid, just as you do in the military. Therefore, it would decrease government handouts. Some of the people could even do their service at day care centers for the kids. It would give them real life work experiences. I think, in general, our society has moved from Kennedy's famous "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" back to always asking what our country can do for us. My hope would be that it would reverse that trend.

But it wouldn't be asking what you can do, it would be telling you what you can do. And what if you could make a better wage doing something else? Would you have to settle for the 7 or 8 dollars an hour at the childcare centre because you'd be serving your country? Or could you take that 12 or 15 dollar an hour job doing whatever and support your family? Why not just let people go out and get a job?

What happens to our universities if we keep putting kids into the military or into forced service? Ok, some might go on to university, but there's a 2 year gap in classroom learning/application. How many will go back into academia for that? And I don't think the Greek system would survive, from a totally shallow point of view.

Basically, I don't want ANYONE telling me what to do, nor do I want anyone to take my brother, boyfriend and friends away against their will. Patriotic speaches are just that, speaches. The guys who make them will rarely have their kids on the firing line.

"Don't wave your rights with your flags."

I think it comes down to be WAY too big of a culture change to be feasible. Also, where would the money come from?

A comment on your last one first. Your government tells you what to do all the time. Pay your taxes, wear your seatbelts, get a drivers license, obey traffic signals. It's called the law. There is ample precedent for forced service, too -- just look at the draft. The mechanism for that is still in place, by the way. I hope it is never reinstated because I saw personally how badly it was handled in the past. As I said somewhere before, thank goodness for ROTC in my case.

Your first point quoted above brings back the thoughts of one of my favorite professors (A fairly young, newly minted PhD in English Lit). His feeling was that it would be much better to send people off for a couple of years of military or community service before college. His reasoning was that people coming out of high school, for the most part, have no real skills at living on their own, don't understand time management, and in many cases have no idea what they want to do in the future. He felt that the added skills and maturity forced by two years of service before college would not only make for better students, but also serve as a way to weed out in advance those who may not really belong in higher education. The flunk out and drop out rates were fairly high. Most "big" schools had "flunk out" courses in the freshman year that they used to clear out the not ready for college students.

Clearly, his thoughts were not shared by a lot of us who were faced with the draft in the middle of the Vietnam war, but in looking back after not only years of volunteering in Delt chapters but also serving as an adjunct faculty member -- I can see his point in many cases. I'd love to get Carnation's perspective on this as a college professor.

The large number of WWII and Vietnam veterans who went directly to college (generally on the GI Bill) immediately upon their discharge would seem to allay your fears about a huge impact on schools and even the Greek System. There was a pretty fair number of post military fraternity men when I was in school. In many cases, it was their maturity and leadership that helped build strong chapters.

Finally, regarding mandatory community service in high school, it was the case in our school system. I think I'm for it. Mrs. DA used to run a very poor not-for-profit organization which relied heavily on volunteer help. The high school students who did their service with her were great kids, and did learn something -- if nothing else, some people skills. The few hours they put in were certainly life-savers for a very small and highly stretched professional staff. So, to me, it's a win-win -- providing the student has any kind of motivation at all.

Rambling thoughts for a Thursday morning.

IT could also be argued that the military may not teach them time management...as a general member, you follow a schedule laid out by a superior, would you not? Its not like every private gets to sit there with a planner and say ,"right, 0630, breakfast, 0700 PT, 0800 range practice, well, no, ok, i could do range practice at 1100." When they leave the military, how will they respond to a university without the structure provided in their military training? Is that any easier than jumping from HS to university?

I agree with that. It always struck me as well that the military claimed to teach leadership skills. I don't see those leadership skills translating very well to the real world though. Consider in the real world, you have to lead people with free will. In the military, if you're a 'leader,' people do what you say, or they go to prison.

Translating military skills to real-world skills I think is pretty darned difficult.

I would argue that, in many cases, the military runs much like any other "job." There are managers (officers), Mid-level supervisors (non-commissioned officers) and workers (grunts).

Everyone is given a job, and a time frame for completing it. In some cases, that may be to be ready to follow the NCO from point A to point B starting at a given time. In some cases, it's working in an office -- or fixing a truck. A relatively small percentage go out and shoot at people.

Actually, I think you've made one of my points by talking about the unstructured schedule in the university setting. I believe that once you've learned those time management skills, you keep them as necessary. Someone who is used to the structure of business or the military is more likely to be able to plan classes, study and free time.

just popping in to totally agree with the above - besides a great weight managment program (hah hah) i definetely feel that time management was an invaluable skill set that i gained from my time in the army. and yes, this has transfered to my civilian life effortlessly.

- marissa

This reminds me of discussions of alcohol use and abuse by college students, which often focused on the fact that many college freshman don't have it together when they go away to school and, as a result, get there and act a fool with alcohol, sometimes with terrible consequences.

Just like I don't think it's the responsibility of universities or student organizations or anyone else to teach people how to be responsible with alcohol, I also don't think it's the responsibility of the military or any other form of mandatory service to teach these kids how to be adults or develop the skills needed to live on their own. That's the job of parents.

Good luck on some of todays Parents.

While they may want to, it is now Law that a Parent cannot correct a child by laying a hand on them.

If they do, The Child can call 911 and report them for Child abuse and they are taken to jail, no questions asked.

The same thing goes for Teachers who try to correct unruly Children. They can lose their jobs PDQ!

So, today there is a bunch of ignorant unlearning want to be gang bangers!:confused:

If they want to fight, put them in the Military, and learn dicsapline (SIC) and time magagement, some thing has to rub off!

I'm not saying it is the military or other service organizations responsibility to teach time management. I'm saying that I think being away from a sheltered environment like home or school naturally imparts those skills -- at least to some.