Cosby Scolds Idle Churchgoers
 

What do you all think about Bill Cosby view of the black community? Personally I say don't speak about it be about it, Bill singles out so many people in our community including church folk, but what is he really doing to effect change? Talking will not change anything only your actions will.

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I definitely agree with this statement made by Dr. Cosby. If we say we love Jesus and if we say we are obedient to the Word of God and are walking by His word...why are we afraid to confront those who are acting out contrary to that which we know and believe is right...from a spiritual or nonspiritual standpoint.

We must show the love of Christ to win those who are in a lifestyle that can cause danger to themselves or others (i.e., drug dealers, prostitutes, etc.,)

This is true but is he practicing what he preaches? Mr. Cosby is not living in these neighborhoods where folks grandparents and children are getting hit with stray bullets and a drug deal is going down with or without your advise. There was a pastor that was killed in DC by trying to prevent two drug dealers from killing one another.

Thats another story...when people run their mouths and aren't doing anything about it. I didn't hear about the DC Preacher and my heart goes out to his family and members of his congregation - that is definitely a hard story to grasp! You have made a valid point in reference to just what is Dr. Cosby doing to help out the "community" that he is saying that "churchgoers" should be involved in?

As Janet Jackson would say with a twist - What has He done for the community lately?

Yes, that is what I am saying. He is doing all this bashing and no advocacy. Practice what you preach Bill. That was a tragedy with the pastor and now his family has to go on without him along with church members. This happened about 3 or so years ago in Southeast, DC. He was pumping his gas and saw the two drug dealers in an argument and tried to break it up and bring the Lord to them and they killed him and broad daylight.

Bill Cosby has done a his fair share for the black community so I think he is qualified to comment on its state. Who do you think should be commenting on it? Only people that live in a poor urban area? Or those that do not make over a certain median income?

Sorry, but I think if you are a person that is trying to better our community and society in general you can comment on it.

And seriously, at what point will we stop waiting on a person to get things started? I think the black church should be at the heart of fixing a lot of the ails of our community instead of waiting for someone else to do it. We should be the one's running after school programs (to keep kids productive and off the street), mini-health clinics in our church basements, drug/alcohol abuse support groups, etc. We need to be the ones to show the love of Christ in action everday by helping those around us.

True...problem is...some of those who are going about changing their communities (every day people) aren't getting the credit or support needed so often times they quit.

Everyone has their opinion about this conversation that is why I posted it to see what everyone thought not to bash folks. Have and have had my fair share and will continue to have my fair share in giving back to the community. I work with kids no one else would so I know about going where the need is but his discuss seems more like judgment and not strategy. I don’t see folks who are not doing anything to listen to his speech and be like oh man lets get out there and teach these kids or go up again these drug dealers. The problem is that if that is happening, its just one person and how do you move people, not by bashing them. I don’t have the answer but I don’t many people starting to get their hands dirty because Bill Cosby is now speaking out. I appreciate his efforts just not the way he is going about it.

In all honesty, they should quit if they're looking for accolades and praise. Helping isn't about "what can I get out of this". Its about doing what you can for where you are. To make it more plain, I'm sure there are chapters of GLOs that are doing things for our community that no one will ever hear about - and yet they keep going. More times than naught, you won't get any credit.

You don't have to wait until you have this big, full scale elaborate plan and money. If all your church can do is operate a substance abuse support group or run an after-school program then that's what you do. Each piece of the puzzle is important.

True I agree

I think the church, and others community institutions, ARE working to make things better on small and large scales, depending on their size/resources. The church's PRIMARY mission, IMO, is showing people the realization of Jesus Christ as Savior, and secondarily showing people how to live more vibrant and impactful lives while we await Christ's return. My church has a community center which houses a K-3 school, an elder day care, and periodically has housed a small business incubator. On top of traditional support ministries for congregants and frankly anybody who comes in the door. That doesn't make us special; as a lot of churches do similar things, which is what we should be doing.

But this constant criticism that everything is a perpetual downward spiral is tired. Poor people making poor socio-economic choices live in every American city. But so do people working to make bad situations better. BOTH these groups existed before Cosby's current world tour. Maybe Cosby's folks should devise a metric so we can chart successes and replicate successful delivery models in other communities.

I respect and love Bill Cosby for his accomplishments and his example of Black success in America. His words are not without some merit. But it's time for this blanket castigation of all things Black lower socio-economic class to stop.

True 100%

Thank you for so eloquently articulating exactly how I feel. I agree with some of what Bill says, but I am not sure what he is accomplishing or that how he is going about it will have any impact. More often than not I think he is "preaching to the choir." I think many of the situations he describes are ones that have spiraled out of control and even those in them are not clear how to make a difference. Is he really proposing good working solutions? A bunch of Christian brothers throwing on suits and running up on drug dealers in Baltimore is just going to add to the body count. That is not a safe or realistic solution. Can we talk about what works and what can work and how we can really make a difference?

I totally agree. And I agree with whomever said that bashing people will not motivate them. I think that most of the people that he is targeting will discount his opinion by saying "he is rich, famous and so far removed from our daily struggle...who is he to speak on what we are/are not doing?"

Bill Cosby served in the military, played sports, got a PhD (I didn't know that one until recently), and then became one of the best known and respected people in entertainment. "Cosby is now a leading educational philanthropist" indicating he gives back to the community. He also created a show about middle class African Americans doing well which is a pretty rare show to ever see on tv. How can he not be a great role model?

Also most of what he says has been said by others like Jesse Jackson, Cornel West, and Spike Lee.

So why the backlash? Probably because of the media's selective coverage of what he says - only showing the bad things. They make it seems as if he put all the blame on blacks when he didn't. They also took out the praise he gave to many black organizations and churches. Regarding Christians stopping drug dealers, it was in the context of saying that Black Muslims have done a good job of doing that on street corners and also that blacks have to do it because cops (society) aren't helping them in their neighborhoods. If anyone got bashed in that speech it was the cops.

You can find the text to all his speeches online without any media twists on them. :)

-Rudey

Again Rudy, I do not knock what his goal is I just think his strategy is weak and will have no effect on the black community. Phalanthropy is great when you give money and speeches and have earned your way, however, I have never seen Bill in a protest or march on in the hood speaking directly to drug dealers or doing what he says black churches need to be doing and the women of families out to be doing. I just think you will have a better result in our community if you don't judge first. Until he has walked a mile in some of these people shoes (meaning sympathize or empathize with folks who weren't given honorary degrees, there is no way he can begin to make grave change.) Folks like Jesse and Al have been to the hood and walked in protest with folks who are directly affected by poverty and the audience that Bill is speaking about.

I've heard he doesn't have just honorary degrees but a real PhD (Edited to add: I found out that he got his phd at a teaching school so even though it wasn't honorary, it's not exactly something he busted his butt to get). He grew up in Philly and I don't know if that's the hood or not but he also dropped out of high school and had to get a GED and then scholarships to go to college. I'm not gonna lie, I don't know enough about his life and what protests he's done but I did find this:

* During the 1970s, Cosby was on the "enemies list" of President Richard Nixon.

* He was the first bigtime entertainer to cancel an appearance in Cincinnati after a boycott was called in response to the 2001 Cincinnati Riots. His support of this cause encouraged other stars to follow.

-Rudey
--I guess I'm just saying that his words have been twisted in the media and people might feel differently if they actually read his speeches instead.

Honeykiss, most churches only help *members*.
SC

Well, last time I checked, Mr. Cosby and his wife had given millions to Spelman and other HBCUs. I don't know whether he also goes up and down the streets of Philly, which is where I think he lives, but I think that millions qualifies as a hint of advocacy.

Besides, it's easy to say, well if that person isn't doing x, then that person shouldn't speak about x. That is a copout for many. The point is that YOU (not speaking to you personally) should do x. How is the fact that YOU should do x any less true just b/c someone else may say it and not do it (although I believe that he does). That "does he do x" discussion results in sidestepping the issue at hand and nothing and nobody benefits.

IMO, you have to take Mr. Cosby's speeches for what they are worth. Some will be turned off b/c he didn't tiptoe through the tulips and gently hold our hands while admonishing us to watch our kids and some will see the frankness as a last ditch effort after tiptoeing has been tried and may appear to not have worked. At the end of the day, he issues a challenge to each of us. What will we each do?



SC

Tony, does your church help people who are not members?
SC

My church does. We have outreach houses and minister to gangs in the community. And give scholarships to non-members.

Well, I've seen evidence that my church does quite a bit of work in the community in which it is located, and I feel confident that a good number of the church members do not live in this community. Between conducting toy and clothing drives, handing out food baskets, supporting the local elementary school, encouraging the development and growth of new businesses in the community, fighting for mixed-income housing and baptizing new Christians, I think they are doing pretty well by the non-members. I'm not saying that this or any other church is perfect or doesn't have its members best interests at heart, but I also don't think that these efforts are unique or isolated to this church.

I agree, there are many churches that give to non-members and encourage members to give to non members. I think until we have assessed all churches in the US we can not honestly make a blanket statement either way however, there are churches that roll up their sleeves and provide for the community.

Most if not the majority of churches do have outreaches for non-members. I just believe in doing what you can where you at. The needs of a community are different and I think there is enough "need" out there for churches to find something to get involved in.

As stated earlier, it doesn't have to be on a grand scale - if you notice the kids in your neighborhood or church are lacking in shows and clothes, even something as small as a clothing drive can make a difference. Small steps do eventually add up.


and good points Rudey. :)

very much so, SC. I'm fairly certain that most all the programs I mentioned earlier have a good representation of non members.

And Jackson, West, Lee and others have all taken criticism from segments of the Black community so why shouldn't Cosby? Particularly when he's taken overly broad swipes, in the opinion of many, at whole segments of people he purports to help.

My comment isn't drawn from the "media's selective coverage." It's drawn from seeing on-the-ground efforts by orgs in the communities trying to effect change -- Urban League, NAACP (in some places), churches, frats/sororities, et. al. As I said earlier, Cosby has a right to comment, but the magnitude of the problem has long been known in the minority community, and was sufficiently well-articulated long before Cos's latest "tour." So what has really been added except media coverage and additional bombast?

That being the case, let's get to the next level. If that's another donation from Cosby, fine. If not, he's already kicked in $20 million so he should feel free to relax, chase Camille around the crib and just chill. But a lot of people find his present conversation -- backed up, in so far as I've been able to determine by not much in the way of a substantive measurable alternative -- a bit tiresome.

It seems to me that if he is discussing the achievements of Black muslims in stopping drug dealers, that he is presenting an alternative. And I suppose you'd measure the success of that by the number of drug crimes in that neighborhood. But then again I have no idea if Black muslims really do confront drug dealers or not. Oh well.

-Rudey

Hello Tony,
That's a relief. Most of the churches that I have attended (admittedly, mostly the mega churches in different areas) typically say that to take part in various programs, you have to be member. I never thought that was right. I'm glad to hear that my experience is in the minority.

SC

Bill Cosby also came from the 'lower socioeconomic classes'. The Fat Albert show (junkyard, North Philly) was REAL. He grew up not too far from my mom and her siblings. Brother Cosby (and others like Dr Ben Carson) HAVE achieved success in spite of their humble beginnings.

The fact that he is the consumate role model, gives MILLIONS to charities and colleges every year and has 'earned his gray hairs' should implore folks to stop, listen and understand what he is trying to say. Instead of getting defensive about his observations of TRUTH, folks need to get to working on the issues.

Very well said soror! I could not agree with you more.

I think as an elder in our village, Bill Cosby has not only earned the right to shout the wake up call into the ears of our people from the most affluent to the least advantage. Its 2006 and most people can identify more brand taglines from commercials than naming 5 recent presidents. I am honored that there is still some one out there willing to go on the front lines and not only take the heat for saying what most of us utter behind closed doors but also place the mirrors in front of our faces to show us all how we need to do more work and less complaining.

Just sharing my $19.13 on the matter :- l


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#22

I think some folks in the hood are rather tired of the "Christianity charity" given to them... It is love with strings attached and folks, poor or otherwise, feel put off by that. They want something for nothing... That is our society today...

We think that we can have children anytime, anywhere, without consequences...

We can pleasure ourselves indiscriminantly with substances or abusive practices detrimental to our well-being...

And the list goes on and on...

And we have a widening gap between the haves and the have-nots...

So with someone with low mentality or regard for life in general thinks, I've gotta get mines, so I'ma take yours... Whatta yah gonna do...

Like we stated in topics long ago about Cosby's comments, I know for a fact, Cosby gave that money to Spelman for hush money 'cuz his daughter did some questionable thangs--like sniffed drugs, etc. Cosby has ghosts in his closet, so he ought not be one to speak on the ills of the AfAm community in the way he does no matter how qualified unless he plans on a major re-building effort costing trillions... Like a UN mini-government... Cosby ain't got that kinna cashflow...

I agree with Honeykisses first statement and many of the other posted responses.

I personally have no problem with Cosby. I think he is to be applauded. I wish he would buy time on the three major networks and break it down.

I was born some years after the deaths of Martin and Malcom. Although we remember them today as being these perfect brilliant men, trust meit was not like that when they were living. I said that to say this, Cosby is doing the same thing that they did during their time. He is splashing a cold glass of water in our faces so we can wake up.

We can be angry with him because he sweep us up in a generalization that doesnt apply. We can be angry because he is reading our mail. Either way, we need to be angry. That anger will propel us into action, because lets face it, we have become apathetic.

Martin and Malcolm
 

I would like to see the outcomes of his speeches and how it directly impacted us as a race and if it starts a movement because Malcolm and Martin did speak the truth but they also got in there and marched and walked and advocated. I still think these speeches are more insults to the black community and less can dos or we dos. It's more telling us what wrong instead of lets change this together. I really do not see a movement coming out of these speeches. His intensions are great but what will the outcome be? Us knowing what the media and society as already beat over our heads, ok then what. What now? We already knew what the problems are, how should we go about fixing them? Telling women on welfare to put more into their kids because the father's are not going to is motivation? Malcolm and Martin motivated and did not tear down.

^^I get where you are coming from. And I couldnt agree more. I just happen to thing that the ends will justify the means.

Hopefully it will.

Re: Martin and Malcolm
 

Soror Gods Ivy,

I agree with you wholeheartedly and I think that in the current environment of "thangs" that OUR government does with the "wiretapping" and "terrorists threat warnings", that the kinds of "lengths" that MLK and Malcolm did back in "their day and time" would be dangerous if done today...

The question is, how much are we willing to risk? If losing my house, my job, my livelihood for something I think MIGHT happen or equally and moreso that it might likely NOT happen, then why would I be willing to risk it all for one day marching? That is the way some folks think nowadays...

Po' folks ain't into in to those kinna thangs lak dat dere... They will be there for the day, but for the rest of the time, they are tryin' to make a dolla outta 15 cents... So the kinds of changes that actually need to be done requires something short of martyrdom... "Negroes" ain't into that no mo'... Unfortunately... :(

Ironically, they willin' to die for some chit in a bag that makes you high for ~10-15 minutes, if that... Go figure?

But, I think we will see changes made when our troops come back from Iraq. That happened during the last Gulf War in 1991... And it seems like history will repeat itself with our current administration... Then again, maybe not...

I just wanted to let you all know something...

La Primera Lives!

-Rudey

Re: Martin and Malcolm
 

I concur. ;)

I agree 1000% :D

Don't get mad. Do better.

enigma_AKA

Re: Martin and Malcolm
 

One thing to keep in mind, as well, is that the reality then was not the reality now. We don't really "get" what the media and society is telling us, because, if we were, we wouldn't be perpetuating this vicious cycle--of stupidity. It's like my parents used to say when I got in trouble: "Don't get mad. Don't do it".

Cosby, literally, puts his MONEY where his mouth is. I don't think he's as much as 'tattling' as he is serving as a reminder. Malcolm and Martin, yes, beyond the speeches, were dealing with a different type of struggle. Their struggle was against everyone else-the government, society and its constructs. Now? We're fighting against our ownselves. The biggest threat to our survivial is deliberate ignorance--to choose to ignore the damaging effects of our current situation.

I could only wish more people could have the means like Cosby to truly give back. I also wish more people could understand that the reasons why he is so harsh on Blacks is because, as Mccoyred pointed out earlier, he's been there and he knows what we are capable of. Simply put, he's saying, as a teacher would "Black people, you aren't working up to your potential. Get on the case--NOW!"

enigma_AKA