question
 

For brothers in co ed chapters is it kool if we call gamma sigs sorors even though we are girls in a APO?

YES!

Re: question
 

Hmmm...well...I wouldn't say all that.

Truthfully, some of my sorors WOULDN'T like that and would never address you as "frat". Not all, but SOME. I wouldn't. Actually I'd bristle up a little bit if you called me "soror" and you were a female. When I came in I was taught that the "bruh" and "soror" exchange was just between APO men and GSS women. Call it old age I guess, but I'd never call you "frat". No disrespect, I just think that's a term for guys.

I know a couple of APO members that are female, and we are very cool (hey Attractive!!) like that...however...we do not address each other as "frat" or "soror". I might be like "Hey Girl, what's up" or something to that effect and exchange a hug. I'm not a jerk. I'll speak to you if you speak to me, but to be real I've seen my sorors completely ignore APO female members and go STRAIGHT to the guys, and I'm not personally cool with that.

I'm not saying it's all THAT serious because it's not...but I did want to clarify. Most of the time it's on that soror on how she wants to receive you on that level.

Re: question
 

It depends.

Yeah it does depend on the relationship.

I'm not comfortable doing that. We did not have a Gamma Sig chapter on my campus. I heard about them from a friend of mine who was a Brother at Clemson, where the chapter is all-male. He mentioned that they did stuff with Gamma Sigs at times and that Gamma Sig is a service sorority, but that was the extent of my knowledge. It was only after I joined GC that I found out much about them. I'd probably feel differently if we'd had a chapter at IU and that chapter was as tight with our APO chapter as some of the GSS/APO chapters are at other places. :)

no

chime in...
 

I'm at the completely opposite end of the scale. I wouldn't call anyone in either Alpha Phi Omega or Gamma Sigma Sigma "frat" or "soror". I use Brother with other members of Alpha Phi Omega and Sister for female members of Alpha Phi Omega who specifically request it of me. (Mu Alpha at Georgetown is one of the few chapters I know of that has had female members who want to be called sister.

As for members of Gamma Sigma Sigma, I appreciate the relationship on the campuses where there is a tight relationship and love to see what you all do.

I *still* wonder what would have happened if sometime in the late 1960s or early 1970s, someone had proposed the type of relationship between APO & GSS that ZPBS has or even KKY/TBS...

Randy

I am with you Randy - if you're in APO, you're my Brother. Simple as that. :)

Re: chime in...
 

Do you mean before they both went coed?

How come I only see you in here during those "questionable" threads? ;)

:)

thanks guys. I was wondering because I have family who are brothers and Gamma Sig and we jokingly call each other frat and soror. But I never tried it with other chapters because I wasn't sure. But like many of you said it depends on different chapters. Thanks so much for your input.

:confused:

Are they in APO AND GSS together or....

no my two female cousins are GSS and me and my male cousins are APO.

Yes.. All of this depends on your relationship with the parties involved.. I've never had a problem with being greeted by brothers and sisters during my Undergraduate years... Since I hold membership in both orgs...

once again...it depends on tha sig. i've had sigs to call me frat and want me to call them soror...i had sigs who did not care to even look my way. i even had a sig to call me soror once lol i think it slipped though...like cuz i'm hella cool wit her.

n e way...i agree with my 7 of course ;) if i'm talkin to gammagirl or another sig i'm cool wit...i'll say hey lady or whats up girl or girlie...u know it depends on my relationship with them. i've met sigs who told me that they consider ALL BROTHERS OF APO AS THEIR FRAT...MEN AND WOMEN...and i respect that...but again...i wouldnt say hey soror...I also call them my sisters in service sometimes :)

...and I would agree SEVEN times!!
All about personal preference...and I actually like the term "Sisters in Service" because, hey, that's what we are. No matter if you're in APO or GSS, hey...if you're a Sister in Service that's all that's important :p

Well personally, 25/52 is 25/52. We all should understand that a Gamma Sig is a Gamma Siga and an A Phi Q (or APO) is just that. If you are a member of either one, then u are a frat/brother or soror/sister. I know this is getting ready to stir up an uproar, but I am a male and Im a member of Gamma Sigma Sigma National Service Sorority, Inc. And, I attended and HBCU where there is a viking chapter of Alpha Phi Omega. It wasnt easy at 1st, but eventually They accepted me as a brother to them and referred to me as brother, as I referred to them as frat. The same with the rest of the Gamma Sigs. So I believe we are all family one way or another and we should all get over ourselves and realize that both Alpha Phi Omega and Gamma Sigma Sigma are both non-selective organizations. It is by law that the two organizations MUST remain open for either gender because niether are social orgs, their both service oriented orgs...as well as Kappa Kappa Psi and Tau Beta Sigma.
I know that some gamma sigs up here are about to have a field day with this one, so before you comment, please know the history of our org. It was founded non-selective and in 1995, the gender part of the non-selectivity was specified for clarity.

^^^ Welcome to Greek Chat. :)

Well I'm not about to have a "field day" with this, and I'm well-read on our history, but I don't agree with some of your statement. The fact that Gamma Sig is not only non-selective, but also co-ed, is something we don't make a secret out of. However, because we DO have the word "sorority" in our name, probably is what deters men from joining IMO. Being in a sorority would denote "female". But yes we're open to everybody, and if I ever met you I wouldn't treat you differently.

Now the thing with ME (and not speaking for any other Gamma Sig) is that I'd probably wouldn't call you "soror" as that is a term that I believe is reserved for women. But that wasn't the biggest thing that I disagreed with. What I disagreed with was your very first sentence, which would show me that you aren't as educated as you could be about 25/52 (and a lot of GSS/APO aren't). If you knew what the concept of 25/52 was, you would know that it's reserved for MEN of Alpha Phi Omega and WOMEN of Gamma Sigma Sigma. That's it. Over the years it's gotten diluted, because others who don't fit into the category try to identify themselves with 25/52, trying to make something that wasn't even designed to be universal, universal. It was designed for two specific types of people. But that's a whole other conversation. However, it's that is how it's done at your school and everybody is comfortable, then so be it. I already know what school you're talking about.

I'm not trying to make this extra serious, because it's not. I think people need to realize that this is simply a subculture within our organizations, that people identify with and can show pride in their respective organization. So I think your reference to how the sorority is co-ed and we included gender-neutral wording in 1995 isn't even important; it's more like you're trying to already defend yourself because you're a man and a Gamma Sig. You already know you're in the minority in GSS because it's a SMALL percentage of men in the sorority. Either way, you're still a member and it's all good. So welcome to GC and chat it up :)

As I understand it, the 1979 National Convention approved revision of the National Bylaws to subsubstitute the term "member" for sister and replace all terms with specific gender to neutral references.

Can I ask what might be a stupid question?

What is 25/52? I have never met a Gamma Sig, nor do I *know* any A Phi Q brothers (other than those I've *met* here on GC) so these differences are fascinating to me!

Just trying to learn as much as I can about ALL brothers/sisters/members/etc of all service organizations/fraternities/sororities/etc as possible! :)

25/52 is a reference to the joining of APO Brothers with Gamma Sigma Sigma Sisters. 25 refers to 1925, the founding date of APO, and 52 is 1952, the founding date of GSS.

I'll let others more knowledgable expound on 25/52.

Some other points.

AFAIK, APO is the only service fraternity. Yes, there are many fraternities in which service is important, but all that I've seen really fall into the category of 'general' or 'social' fraternities.

AFAIK, there are only 2 Service Sororities. Interestingly enought, both have ties to APO. There is Gamma Sigma Sigma, and Omega Phi Alpha. GSS I have heard stands for either "Girls Service Sorority" or "Girl Scout Service". OPA was actually established with the assistance of certain APO chapters. Because OPA is smaller then GSS, most are either unaware of it, or overlook it. While there are ties between APO and GSS & OPA, all three groups are independent of the others.

Again, members of GSS and OPA can expound on their groups.

No question is a dumb question :)

Basically what 25/52 is, by just looking at it, are the combined founding years for APO (1925) and GSS (1952). As I said in my first post, this was created for the men of APO and the women of GSS, as a brother/sister relationship. You will normally find this relationship to be most prevalent amongst "Viking" members of APO, but there are APO men who pledged at co-ed chapters who also embrace it as well. That is not to say, however, that 25/52 exists on EVERY campus in which there is a chapter of APO and GSS. There are schools in which both chapters operate completely independent from each other, and there are still other schools in which both chapters are extremely close; they not only socialize, but serve together often as well.

This relationship was created due to the historical ties that GSS has to APO. We share two founding principles (Service & Friendship), many GSS chapters received assistance from APO at the times of their founding, and one of the sorority's founders married an APO brother from Drexel. Also, during the early years of the sorority, it was customary for a representative from the Fraternity to attend our Conventions as an honored guest. For clarification as well, GSS stands for "Girls' Service Sorority".

I don't think the whole brother/sister concept between our organizations is new; I know of Gamma Sigs from the 60's, 70's and 80's calling members of APO "our brothers" but placing a title on it is. And it's still fairly new, with the term "25/52" being used beginning around the 90's I think (older APQ's would know for sure). Also, I find it safe to say also that people shouldn't assume that this is just something you find at HBCU's either. For example, one of the chapters in my district, Epsilon Beta at Clemson University, has a close relationship with the Gamma Lambda chapter of APO and they call them brothers as well.

Most Gamma Sigs will consider MALE members of APO to be their brothers (most but not all) and not the women, or even go as far as to just acknowledge APO members that are Vikes and not acknowledge those from co-ed chapters. Basically, it's whatever that person's preference is. I've seen the term "Sisters in Service" be used (as explained earlier in the thread) between Gamma Sigs and APO women, or if anything, simply not counting them in this group--which I know sounds mean, but it is what it is.

I hope I answered everything. This has become a book, lol but I think having an open discussion about this will take away those stereotypes and assumptions that people have about it.

"AFAIK, there are only 2 Service Sororities."

Actually, at Virginia Tech, there is a local service sorority, Chi Delta Alpha. Founded in 1967, before the ZB Chapter of Alpha Phi Omega accepted women, it's still in existence. http://www.chideltaalpha.org.vt.edu/
(I actually looked into them before joining APO)

I'm guessing you didn't see my posts regarding the rechartering of the chapter at Gallaudet and the ins and outs of the Deaf community!!
This was, in no way, a book, and cleared up a lot for me!

Thanks to all who answered my question. My feeling is, we're all here to serve and be friends......the more, the merrier!

Onlys
 

According to Baird's Manual of American College Fraternities back in 1991, there were four groups in the section for Alpha Phi Omega. This was the service subgroup of the recognition societies chapter. The four were Alpha Phi Omega, Gamma Sigma Sigma, Intercollegiate Knights and SPURS. Intercollegiate Knights (which was historically men) is down to about 2 or 3 chapters at schools in the Northwest from a high of about 40 and SPURS (historically female) actually formally dissolved itself at its last convention.

I don't know why Omega Phi Alpha wasn't in the last Baird's, but they certainly count as National. The only other group that I know of that might count is Jewels of Tau, but I don't know if they refer to themselves as a Service Fraternity.

In terms of locals, you have a number of them including Kappa Alpha Kappa which is at Maine-Machias, CHI's at Baylor, Chi Gamma Phi at UC San Diego, and probably others.

Matched Service Sorority for the All-male chapters.
 

Of the chapters which were all-male as of the 2006 convention,
*most* have chapters of Gamma Sigma Sigma National Service Sorority (GSS) on campus as well or some other women's oriented group. However this certainly does not represent a majority of the active chapters of Gamma Sigma Sigma.

Delta chapter (Auburn)- Omega Phi Alpha National Service Sorority
Gamma Lambda (Clemson) - GSS
Gamma Chi (Samford) - GSS
Zeta Theta (Drexel) - GSS
Kappa Alpha (Lamar) - None
Kappa Delta (Florida A&M) - GSS
Nu Mu (Minn. Duluth) - GSS
Pi Chi (Duquesne) - GSS
Sigma Xi (Maine-Orono) - GSS
Sigma Pi (Prairie View A&M) - GSS
Tau Zeta (Texas Southern) - GSS
Phi Zeta (Fort Valley State) - None
Chi Nu (Grambling State) -None
Psi Delta (Maine- Machias) - Kappa Alpha Kappa local service sorority.

Seeing as how the Jewels of Tau started off as a little sister offshot of Tau Chapter, I seriously doubt they'd call themselves as Service *Fraternity*.

AFAIK, there are only a handful of chapters, and they are strickly female-only.

Whoops, I meant service sorority. And I believe they have two chapters. U of Fl and U of S Fl.

A quick google search shows Alpha chapter at UF and Gamma chapter at USF. No idea where Beta chapter is/was or if still in existance.

Just to chime in... I had never heard of 25/52 until about 2 years ago. When I pledged in 1993, we had both GSS and APO on campus. We existed as very separate organizations. We did help each other with some major service projects, but it ended at that.

We NEVER considered APO our brothers nor did they consider us their sisters, and therefore would never have referred to each other as such. The APO chapter at the time was co-ed, by the way.

So as my sister Gamma Girl explained, things may differ greatly from campus to campus.

When I was reading your post, it made me think of the situation at Penn State. I don't know if you are there, but I've heard it used as an example of a school with both APO & GSS where the social connection between the two isn't much different than either's relationship with the other community service organizations on campus.

Men of the Rising Sun
 

I am in a PG chapter in Virginia. I was wondering what does the men of the rising sun.

Men of the Rising Sun is a phrase taken on as a descriptor by some groups who feel that Alpha Phi Omega chapters should be able to stay all male.

Jamie Conover, who is also on here as Quala67, is probably the best person to give you more particulars. As far as I know, she is working with all Petitioning Groups in Virginia at this time: Virginia State, Norfolk State and Regent.