"Marriage is for White People"
 

I've received this article like 4 times in the past week. I find it interesting. Before ANYONE says that this is racist, it's NOT.

Marriage is for White People


ARTICLE EXCERPT

For years, I wondered why not. And then some 12-year-olds enlightened me.

"Marriage is for white people."

That's what one of my students told me some years back when I taught a career exploration class for sixth-graders at an elementary school in Southeast Washington. I was pleasantly surprised when the boys in the class stated that being a good father was a very important goal to them, more meaningful than making money or having a fancy title.

"That's wonderful!" I told my class. "I think I'll invite some couples in to talk about being married and rearing children."

"Oh, no," objected one student. "We're not interested in the part about marriage. Only about how to be good fathers."

And that's when the other boy chimed in, speaking as if the words left a nasty taste in his mouth: "Marriage is for white people."

He's right. At least statistically. The marriage rate for African Americans has been dropping since the 1960s, and today, we have the lowest marriage rate of any racial group in the United States. In 2001, according to the U.S. Census, 43.3 percent of black men and 41.9 percent of black women in America had never been married, in contrast to 27.4 percent and 20.7 percent respectively for whites. African American women are the least likely in our society to marry. In the period between 1970 and 2001, the overall marriage rate in the United States declined by 17 percent; but for blacks, it fell by 34 percent. Such statistics have caused Howard University relationship therapist Audrey Chapman to point out that African Americans are the most uncoupled people in the country.


Your thoughts?

Re: "Marriage is for White People"
 

ROTFL :D !!!!!!

But seriously, reading/hearing stats like this saddens me. Why are good enough to shack up with, but not marry? :(

In terms of dating, maybe we as Af Am women need to open up our "dating pool" to men of other ethnicities?

Re: Re: "Marriage is for White People"
 

I know who I am dealing with which is why I had to make my disclaimer. :)

Possibly @ "maybe we as Af Am women need to open up our "dating pool" to men of other ethnicities," but for me that is unchartered territory that I am not sure I want to travel on.

*Le sigh* I don't want to vent on here, so that is all I will say. ;)

Re: Re: Re: "Marriage is for White People"
 

I hear ya and TRUST, I'm not saying that's the answer - because what works for some may not for others. But I am just speaking on a surface level - meaning without exploring why the disparity exist and fixing that first ( ex. researching "why" black men are going to jail more, erroding of the black family, etc.). Because by the time its "fixed" I may be an old woman or dead and chillin' with Christ. So I'm just speaking in terms of "now".. :)

Shoot, I don't even have a real answer. I'm just sad to hear that kids think "marriage is for white folks".....:(

Re: Re: Re: Re: "Marriage is for White People"
 

I'm thinking that a lot of these kids come from households that the parents are not married and never have been married. :( So for them, the marriages they see are white people and they make the connection that White people get married but Black people don't.:(

To be honest, I don't affiliate with White men in an intimate fashion where the possibility of dating one would happen. It is not that I look at them like EEEEEWWWWWWWWW but I am not holding up a sign saying COME HERE WHITE MEN or Asian or Latino or Filipino (;) @ Starang). You know what I mean?

Re: Re: "Marriage is for White People"
 

On the flip side, considering that more AfAm women are getting degrees (including advanced degrees), I think some of it is coming from us. "Why should I get married? I'm doing good for myself?"...sort of in the line of "I don't need a man to take care of me".

I think some women don't see marriage as necessary anymore.

This is a sad article, but I can see the truth in it. I have several good friends that got married several years ago, and now for one reason or another, are getting divorced.

My parents are still together and I look forward to getting married and it scares me that it may never happen. It is true that more black women are getting advanced degrees or have a "I don't need a man" mentality, but what about those of us with advanced degrees without that mentality?

I'm wondering does it really matter a lot that many people aren't getting married these days, since the divorce rates are so high anyway. Simply breaking up sounds more convenient than divorcing. You don't have to go through the courts and all of the other drama.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "Marriage is for White People"
 

LOL I hear ya!

Shoot, I'd have to move for that to heppen (Wichita is 8% black). But if I can get personal for a moment, the person I'm dating right now is white, but not because I purposely went out searching for a "White Knight" (LOL).

To be honest (and I would NEVER tell him this :p ) when he asked me out on a date, I only said yes because he had tickets to this jazz concert that I REALLLLLLLYYYYY wanted to go to, but didn't have a date. So I said "why not, its just for an evening." And he turned out to be the most interesting person I'd met in a while (not to mention that we had so much in common) that things just kind of sparked from there.

And people say that God doesn't have a sense of humor.;)

Well, eHarmony is makin' a killin' off some folks... Then there are these other ones that are fakin' the funk and takin' folks money...

The other issue is more African American men have a rap sheet that African American women, especially highly educated ones do not want to deal with... Generally, men with felony convictions lose too many "rights"--they cannot apply for certain jobs, they cannot get loans, they cannot go to school, they cannot vote, etc. and so on and so forth. Who would want to deal with that, drama? And it is so easy to arrest a brotha these days for just about anything, which is sad because it is crazy...

Sistahs on the other hand, don't want the heartache moreso than the headache. It is too much heart trouble to deal with alienation and abandonment from man, that we have come to the conclusion that "I may as well be better off by myself" satisfaction... We still want the "luxury" of having a loving relationship with a man, but is a whole lot easier to write off that feeling than to invest into the heart wrenching pain when things don't go as anticipated.

It is a matter of degree, I think. What can we tolerate and deal with at this time? Then how much are we willing to walk into a situation with our eyes wide open, knowingly going into a something that might be a hornet's nest...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "Marriage is for White People"
 

:(

:o

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "Marriage is for White People"
 

LMAO that you changed my post. Why are you trying to get my cyber shot by your boo, ShamikaT?:p

Heeeey! Marriage isn't for white people. I just got engaged! :D

But seriously, a lot of our folks settle for having babies without marital bonds and shacking up. :( It makes me sad.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "Marriage is for White People"
 

lol, because....her pre-pubescent behind coulnd't hang with a grown woman like yourself.

besides, the "my woman" position requires a degree, lol.

Congratulations!!! :D

congrats

WHAT.I.AM.GOING.TO.SAY.IS.GOING.TO.BE.UNPOPULAR.

I think alot of this has to do with the sexual revolution. I think white America bought into the sexual revolution LONG Black before America did. Most white men, I think, are already adjusted to a woman being sexually free and can actually have a relationship with a woman, and see her as a potential mate if he falls in love with her, EVEN IF she gave it up a little easily in the beginning.

However, the sexual revolution took hold in Black America a little slower, and even slower when it comes to the mindsets of Black men. So while Black women are getting degreed up and enjoying their sexual freedom many Black men still hold against the very women they are sleeping with and honestly developing feelings for, the circumstances of their first hook up. I know of numerous sitations at my HBCU law school where a couple hooks up kind of casually, they BOTH develop feelings, but the man just can't get over the fact that the interaction started with sex that was more casual than not. I truly know guys who started out having casual sex with a girl, really grew to love her, but won't make her is gal let alone his wife because he says, "I can't turn a h* into a housewife." Now, clearly these women aren't whores, but some Black men, I truly believe, can't get over the fact that women own their sexuality and sometimes <GASP> have sex for fun too.

I think these situations occur most when high degreed women are involved because many of us are trying to get sexual fixes (no judgment here) while we pursue our careers and degrees -- we don't go into professional school looking for mate. In our heads we just want fun; however while there we meet someone we feel for and he feels for us, but he can't get past us taking care of ours.

I started law school dang near engaged so while I personally didn't go thorugh this I have identified the phenomenom in a good number of people I know. So degreed ladies start to date non-Black men (b/c many of the Black men they know will never say it out loud but consider them used up) and the hang up about sex without love just isn't there, so if/when love comes it is unadulterated by the man's opinion.

This is just my 0.08 cents and clearly I am NOT saying the ENTIRE problem addressed in the article is defined by what I've just said. I would NEVER over-simplify like that, but I do think what I've said is the part of the issue no one wants to talk about.

Exquisite, you are so right. I agree with what you said and have encountered what you are talking about.

I AGREE WITH THIS 1908% :)

Moreover, we many African American women may have gotten caught up back in the day with unplanned pregnancies and other items with that so called "experimentation"--due to this "revolution".

Moreover, it is the classic wanting the "cake" and "eating it", too syndrome, along with "why buy the cow, when you can get the milk for free" attitude... Oh, they wanna sleep with you and get it on and say just about anything so that you will believe them. Hayle, you may wanna sleep with them! But the minute a woman starts talking about something more than "friends" with meaningfulness--oh, misogyny sets in. Alice Walker talks a bit about that in "You Can't Keep a Good Woman Down" and the views of Black women by Black men and its discrepancy when it comes to pornography... Oh they be lookin' and probably touchin', but definitely don't take a sistah seriously anymore than "friends with benefits".

Now a highly educated sistah can let her "dry season" set in and be happy with that, but the longing of "touch" is a very powerful thing.

There is another issue too, some of our Brothamen are not very sexually explicit--so to speak. Like they don't like to get busy. They actually DO like the mind-body connection--the spooning, the hugging, the kissing without sexual intercourse. Some of our Brotha's are shall I say, "visual learners"--the burlesque and playboy--they like to look and oogle and that's about it.

Sometimes our Brothaman, just wants to be heard or their senses "expanded"... It touches them in such a way that gives them a different viewpoint in life...

And some Sistahs are "cold fish". Oh they lie on their back and are not into gymnastics, making it uneventful for some men because of some perceived strictly conservative viewpoint of how sex should be done. There is no connection--and if anything, I find a lot of Sistahs have that capability to acheive a "sexual expansion"or tantra, but have little idea of how to use it...

Of course you might get called a "voodoo high priestess" if you actually do that kinna stuh...

woo chile. Did it just get really hot in here?
is there a blushing icon? LOL

Good post ladies!

Oh yeah, congrats on the engagement Angel11E011!

*you're his Queen tooo be!!!!!!!!!!!*

thanks everybody for the well wishes. :D

I never heard this one
 

As a sistah, this really stuns me. So many of OUR kids are growing up in broken and unstable homes. I read a statistic somewhere that 68% of children born to Black women are out of wedlock.

What can we do to kill this trend and kill this whack attitude that kids have? If we don't, the cycle will never be broken...

**SMH** (Scratching my head)

Re: I never heard this one
 

well i would say start by leading by example. if the child sees positive images of black people they can RELATE to getting married, then maybe that midset will change. i'm still amazed when i meet people whose parents are still married (and more surprised when theyre black--and i mean American vs. Carribean).

EVERY black marriage i've known in life has ended in divorce:

• my grandparents on both sides: on both side, my grandfathers were lying cheating whores, alcoholics, abusers of all sorts... which caused my mother's mother to remarry (a Puerto Rican) and my father's mother to stay alone. same for my great-grandmother, who had 9 children by her husband before splitting up and remarrying the man I knew as "grandpa."
• my friends' parents: thinking of my closest black friends, they are all raised by a single parent (most likele single mom, but i have just as many friends who are raised by a single father, typically cause the mother died or is unstable. i THINK i have ONE black friend with parents still married - and notice i say "still" - even in my wording, my assumption is that marriage is not permanent.
• black TV couples: aside from the huxtables, winslows and banks, what black tv show depict a black couple married? and even then, was that model RELATABLE?
• and let's count the number of young black women in my life that show no desire or need to get married.

even my model marriage (my doctor aunt and entrepreneurial/ex-NAVY uncle) is on the rocks (issues of wanting children, i think ive brought it up here before. my other aunt, who married 3 different times (all outside the race mind you) ended in divorce.

long story short, i dont know... but i, too, am of the persuasion of no marriage (if you couldnt tell).

Get it said Soror!!!

I don't know...I guess I'm in the small minority of people who was actually raised by both parents, whom actually stayed married until death [did they part].. And quite honestly, for quite some time, I thought my reality was common for black people. Apparently not! I really began to see that the nuclear family was not a reality for many of my peers in high school, college and beyond.

So, a lot of values and the way I see certain things is obviously based on my own experience. Hence, the surprise that somebody would actually say 'marriage is for white people'.

Now that I think about it, the breakdown in the nuclear black family unit happened 400 years ago. Our men were emasculated and taken away from their 'families', and our women were relegated to being the consummate mammy/whore. Do you think that this mindset still filters down through our current generation (if only subconsciously)?

I know some of yall my kick me out of GC, :p but as crazy as some of the mess that was posted by that one Alpha (I can't think of his name but it was PH-something), he did post some information concerning the 60s/70s feminist movement and its effects on the black family that I that I TOTALLY agreed with.

I say that because I think this was during a time period of not only when our families were beginning to fall apart but also our sense of "it takes a village to raise a child" mentality as well. I'm sure we all can remember growing (regardless if you lived in the South or the North/small town or large city) of the whole neighborhood watching out for you (and telling your momma too). Even if your parents weren't together, there were other adults that you could look to in the community.

That's not the case anymore.

Exquisite, your post was on point and well said.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

*RM sits down and SMH at how freakin' far our socieity has degenerated*

You are not alone, I grew up with both of my parents, so it is MY reality for a 2 parent household. Though my parents are Nigerian, I still believe that if they weren't they would still stay together.

I know a couple that have been together for well over 10 years, not married, but common-law wife and husband.

Excellent points in this thread. I meant to read that article earlier this week because of the title. I am one of those sisters that married into that "hornet's nest" and I would NEVER do it again. Because I was raised with both parents, my mission was to NOT be like my mother and be dependent on my husband...so I did not marry to be taken care of. Even though the love was there, love don't pay nobody's bills! I am still cleaning up mess from 15 years ago that damaged my credit, etc.

As a single lady now, I can definitely agree with Exquisite about the "double standard" dating that goes on. I have heard that statement also in regards to friends having casual sex and that makes the woman a whore. So maybe if we single ladies just close the shop, dry season or not, we could find ourselves more "marriage material". I remember my dad telling me the old statement about buying the cow and the milk being free..

Well, then again maybe not. I like to have sex way too much to stop. This is a new day. I think as a whole, men need to change their ways of thinking.:rolleyes:

Back in the day, that is what women thought they should do. Some women today still think that way--a MAN outta buy you this, that and the other... Well, I always said, that if I EVA find a man willing to do ALL that for me and was NOT A PIMP, then I'd be a barefooted, pregnant old lady in a shoe with too many kids and not knowing what to do...

I think it is fairy tale logic to really imagine that anyone will take care of anyone without strings attached...

The other issue is there are not that many brothas out there--sheer population overall. Like isn't it 4:1 sistahs:brothas or more? Then on top of that finding a brotha that is quasi-sane, somewhat attactive, willingly and available and doesn't have any alternative habits or lifestyles? Essentially being HIV-free...

Re: Re: I never heard this one
 

I am with others. My parents will be 43 years tomorrow. And my dad--well let's just say my being in his life was payback for all the little crippa-crap he use to do to women back in the day when he was young... You know--when the little boys tell you some bullisht, when I was a teenager, he'd tell me all the stuff that was said and I didn't believe him, till I found out he did it, too when he was young... Then he'd get pissed off with ME when I fell for the gank move by some fool because he saw it from a mile away... He still has a few issues with my husband... But he knows that my husband is a goof-ball nerd that's really smart, who he might see as sneaky...

Whether our marriage will last, I hope so. I know I didn't walk into it with the thought of failure. I walked into it that I would do everything and anything that it would take for it to succeed... I know I can only be responsible for myself and my actions, I cannot control him or his actions, but I do have that expectation. Besides, I hoped that I married someone with 1 personality and high "moral" character--so if something were to happen out of nowhere that he did, because I know I'm not trying to do anything--I have constant past reminders--then, it would be that he has a serious clinical mental illness that requires professional help...

Also, I think that most folks come with these preconceived notions of marriage--I know I did--that just have to either pan out in the marriage or have a real introspective look into oneself about the reasons for those kinds of expectations... Meaning, should the wife work after the baby or should you have children at all, etc...

You have got to know who YOU are before you marry and hopefully before you have kids.

Somehow on a whole, our young people are skipping steps or missing the big picture and that instant gratification thing...

I agree, highly educated African American women don't want to deal with this. It's a lot of sacrifice and a lot to deal with, not only with the man, but with the man's family, who may be very different than what you're used to dealing with.

Some women do it though. ;)

And what about building with folks? That's what our parents used to do. I know I am nowhere near my realized potential, neither is my honey. But .... we support each other in our endeavors.

Well I think it is hard for some people when they have had to go it alone for so long... It is a matter of trust, delegating and cooperation.

And these days, depending on where you live and how you want to live, it is hard for a young couple to start out to make a family. Back in the day, couples could easily purchase a starter home, afford the mortgage, etc. But nowadays, couples would be lucky to live in a pumpkin shell.

If anything, I do highly recommend seeing a bonafide financial planner with the formation of a pre-nuptual or partnership agreement. Then, I would request all my guests to give me money rather than gifts to go toward the mortgage downpayment.

The issue is setting realistic goals together and separately at the same time.

Well my thoughts on this is really that the state of marriage in America is a full on mess. 52 percent of those couples that get married end up getting divorced. I believe that I said something similar in a post on the Omega Psi Phi message board but my thoughts are still the same, marriage does not mean forever. My mother was with her current husband 16 years before they got married. Actually I was maid of honour. To date they have been together pushing 25 years. In the Caribbean many of my friends were raised in two parent households, though those 2 parents were not married. Today sadly marriage doesn't guarantee committment.

I think that the decline of marriage rates and the rise of divorce rates has been influenced by the change in women's roles since the 1950's. Then, us women "knew our place", we took care of the homes while the men went out and brought home that green. However today we women are "allowed" to work and are not dependent on a man. People assume that because more people stayed married then that these couples were happy, who the hell knows if they were. Maybe if those women had a choice or other options they may have gotten out too.

Furthermore, the institution of marriage amongst blacks was damaged from the days of slavery, were a husband or children were sold at any given moment. There was no stability then and feeling of extreme caution (to protect our emotions and feelings of vulnerability) has filtered down through many generations. Sorry this was so long but that's just my .13 cents.

I hope I don't offend anyone with my comment however, it's my opinion. I think this topic is by far one of the most interesting topics on this board. In my opinion, less blacks are married and/or having successful marriages because we have unrealistic or too high standards for our mates. We expect for him or her to be dang near perfect. For us women, he needs to look like this, make this much money, drive this, live there, have no kids and the list goes on and on. Most of the same apply for black men. I think whites are more excepting of each other. For example, they think realistically and understand that over time their mate's body and appearance may change due to getting older, health or whatever it may be. Black women are more understanding in this area, but black men need to emerge.

I do agree with some of the other comments regarding the role of the black man in society and its affects on marriage. Also, I agree that because of the black man's role, black women have become a lot more self sufficient because we have had to depend on ourselves more which can intimidate some men.

I am in no way saying that anyone should settle for less. It's just my thought that if we become more realistic with our expectations of our mates and marriage, the state of the BLACK MARRIAGE will become more successful!

Personally, I am happily married to a wonderful man. I honestly feel that when I got fed up with being dogged by pretty boys who drove nice cars who didn't give a rats azz about me, that's when I met MY BLESSING. My husband is wonderful and truly a blessing from GOD but, had I not gone through what I went through in past relationships I wouldn't be able to appreciate what I have now.

This essentially sums up my situation as well. Except it wasn't boys driving nice cars, it was the guys I grew up with in the MacGregor area of Houston who came from 2 parent, 2 career, 2 sometimes 3 and 4 degreed homes with no want for money who thought they were God's gift because of all of that. When I finally stepped outside of my neat little upper middle class box, I found my loving wonderful husband who is in the military and comes from a military family (something that was completely foreign to me as a descendant of 3 generations of business owners)....and I could not be happier.

I agree, some sistahs do need to open their eyes and their hearts. I was one of them, and I thank God daily that I did.

Hey all I just got engaged tonight for my birthday (actually 2 days before.) Let's hope that with alot of hard work, we won't become a statistic.