Entire Duke Lacrosse Team Suspended from Play
 

Apparently, some of the team members won't talk with investigators because they want to show "team unity". I wonder how much team unity there'll be when Dad and Mom, with lawyers, show up on campus telling their sons they'd damn well better start talking to save their own butts...

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5450234

There's a pretty good discussion about this over on Deadspin.

The first poster (who is a Duke alumus) says "I love Duke, I'm proud of my school, but incidents like this are the reason why I hated so many of the kids there and why a lot of nice people I know suffered through four years of school there: rich kids who've never seen a consequence in their life. Maybe 16 years of jail time... the first offense penalty for this crime... will make them understand that, but the sad truth is, Daddy's probably going to get them out of this."

I heard today that the school has suspended the rest of the games until something is resolved.

Hard to sweep something like this under the carpet.

What is it about groups of young men who think they can take liberties with "dancers"? This isn't the first time I've seen this kind of thing.

Maybe this will turn out like several other stories posted on this forum about a rape that didn't occur or maybe it won't.

-Rudey
--Innocent until proven guilty

On top of that...who in their right mind would want to have sex with a stripper anyway?

You are asking for HIV.

As a Duke alum, I'm saddened to hear about this story (whichever way it turns out). I've been reading some good articles from the Duke Chronicle.

Two interesting legal issues I've read in the articles so far:

1. DA Mike Nifong said, "Teammates who did not commit or observe the alleged assault are potentially liable for charges of aiding and abetting the crime because of teammate relationships." That seems crazy to me. You weren't even there, but because you play on the same team with these people you could be liable!

2. Attorney Tom Lofton said he is suspicious of the validity of any evidence collected from the 46 athletes. "You've got a fishing expedition where 46 people -- without individualized suspicion focusing on any one of them -- are being subject to an extreme violation of privacy....Not everyone in that pool was at the party. Should they hit a home run with any of these samples, then that person is going to have a very, very strong motion to supress the evidence."

I love my alma mater and hope for the best resolution of this situation!

I would think (and hope) that he meant this in that if they know information about what happened and won't come forward with it, they would be aiding and abetting after the fact.

They provided DNA samples.

Clearly they wouldn't have if they were aiding and abetting.

So why aren't the police waiting until those results are out instead of simply attacking the team and making this to be racial as opposed to sexual?

-Rudey

From the one of the dancer's perspective.....
 

Apparently, the dancer was also a student at NC Central so this is her account of what happened according to the News Observer.

Dancer gives details of ordeal
Samiha Khanna and Anne Blythe, Staff Writers

The woman who says she was raped last week by three members of the Duke University lacrosse team thought she would be dancing for five men at a bachelor party, she said Friday. But when she arrived that night, she found herself surrounded by more than 40.

Just moments after she and another exotic dancer started to perform, she said, men in the house started barking racial slurs. The two women, both black, stopped dancing.

"We started to cry," she said. "We were so scared."

Forty-six members of the men's lacrosse team submitted DNA samples Thursday in the unusual case. As of late Friday, there had been no arrests. Duke officials briefed university staff Friday on the allegations, and authorities vowed to crack the team's wall of solidarity.

Read the rest of the article here

Have the police really "attacked" the team in anyway?

OK well how about the DA in clearly saying a rape was done and that even after DNA samples were taken that the players were aiding and abetting or the townies and whomever else put up signs on their lawns.

There are private schools all over the country. Without Duke, that area would be worse off I would think. Instead of complaining about the students and their disconnect with the neighborhood, they should be happy. As for the rape, it is being investigated and they have DNA samples so why can't the townies just wait for those results?

-Rudey

DNA samples will only prove that the person who gave the sample didn't actually commit the rape. The DNA results and anything that might amount to aiding and abetting aren't really related. Withholding information about what may have or may not have happened has nothing to do with their DNA.

I don't know how much it is the police "attacking" the team than the community, the media, etc.

I don't know that I necessarily agree with the approach that seems to be going on here by the DA's office, but i'm not familiar with the particularities of the criminal laws of NC.

There you go baby girl! Law school taught you well.

Come take the Cali bar and play with the big boys. You can make big money out here and your office plant won't have to look at steel mills from the 36th floor.

This looks like pretty straight reportage to me. Out of curiousity, why would you say the media is attacking? Lots of quotes, but no real editorializing. Or am I missing something?

This is a pretty big story, there are a lot of news articles out there about it. Some that i've glanced at have certainly editorialized.

Isnt there always editorilizing on a situation such as this?

So, She was a Stripper.

"IF" there was a Rape that inqured then, some action should be taken.

DNA Samples will prove semen that was there, not just a single speciman.

How many witnesses were there and who cooberated this?

Guess time will tell wont it?

DA, Quote:"This looks like pretty straight reportage to me. Out of curiousity, why would you say the media is attacking? Lots of quotes, but no real editorializing. Or am I missing something?"

Maybe You dont seem to understand from a legal stand point, just a Media stand point.;)

"IF" this happened, then burn their butts!

No, I think I understand. Maybe I should read it again, but the only thing I saw in what I read that isn't either a quote or paraphrase of the legal authorities (including the DA's office), administrators or witnesses is where they explain their policy of not naming sexual assault victims -- which, although not universal, is fairly common.

Listen, all I'm saying is that there are all these "Reported" rapes out there. Even on GC there was a thread where a lot of women got worked up over it and it turned out the guy was innocent. The team provided DNA which will then show who had sex with her. From there they can determine if it was consensual or rape. If they are aiding and abetting, then charge them; if not, they can shutup. But I'm sure the more the prosecutor can poison the environment now, the better for any case he may have.

-Rudey

The other aspect of media bias is how much coverage an issue gets. If you report lightning striking a man over and over and over on the news and talk about how awful it is and show the results, I'm sure a lot of people will get scared of lightning.

-Rudey

The most interesting thing is that pre-trial publicity (which I'll call 'PTP') has a much more powerful effect on a case if it's negative, against the defedant. Negative PTP is one of the toughest barriers to overcome - and casting this in a racial light is probably the best-spun PTP I've ever seen from a public officer, regardless of whether it's true or not, since the jury will most likely have between 4 and 8 African Americans (not much risk of needing Batson here) . . .

-RC
--Obviously still at work

I understand the logic of the last few posts.

It's a delima for the media because it's a story that people want to know about because of the scope and sensationalism of the alleged crime itself and the fact that an entire sports team may be involved in stonewalling.

Cops and prosecutors are public officials, and it can be a difficult ethical issue in terms how much of what they say to use or not use.

In terms of pointing out that the woman is black and every member of the team except one is white becomes a part of the story since the one man didn't have to give a DNA sample. In fact, it probably becomes part of the story because of the public racial slurs reported by the witnesses.

This is one of those times where reporting will be criticized no matter what, how much, or how little is said I think.

Understanding all of the posts, it suddenly comes to a Ethnic revolation?

This as was Reported was a Student from an other College who was Black. Am I correct in this?

She was an Exotic Dancer/Stripper as it were!

Was that given the right to do what was said was to Her?:confused:

Maybe it would be better to see what actually comes out on this even though it is a great discussion!

DA I am sure You will agree, I hope, That Media is first on the scene and will profess a lot for headlines. It is called ratings.

I think the article said she worked for an escort service and this was the first time she was going to do (I think they said) suggestive dancing.

An escort service? So she's a hooker?

-Rudey

The two aren't necessarily always synonomous.

So you know quite a bit about the industry?

Really? In Durham, NC? Seriously?

I'm pretty sure they're synonymous almost everywhere, except for amazingly over-the-top wealthy parts of the world . . . and even then . . .

I'm willing to put money on it that she was a hooker. Ask mccallan/saetex what escorts really are since his mom escorts truckers at least 7 times daily.

-Rudey

But he said he did not necessarily expect the DNA samples taken last Thursday from the team's 46 white players to match evidence taken from the accuser.

"I would not be surprised if condoms were used," he said.


What does that mean? If they used condoms, what evidence did they leave? Wait is this like the Kobe Bryant trial?

-Rudey

That's why the use of the word "necessarily."

Innocent until proven guilty, right?

Even though it's very likely that Rudey is right.

If only three were invovled, why are they ruining the whole teams season? Just to make a point?

Seems wrong somehow.

If I had to guess I think it might be because the rest of the teammates that were there won't talk to the police about what happened. That's one thing I don't get... if you've got nothing to hide, why not fully cooperate? Even the attorney who is representing most of the players won't comment.

When you don't talk, not even through your attorney or to the police, it really looks suspcious. Maybe they have reasons, I don't know, but human nature makes it look bad on them.

I think you are right about the perception kddani.

On the other hand.

I just think they are doing the right thing. I know police interrogators and the first thing they will tell you(friends) is don't talk to police . . . maybe talk to police with a lawyer present.

I have been told that more people talk themselves into charges than you could possibly believe. The police may have had nothing until they just started talking.

Also, keep in mind that police are allowed to lie in interrogations.

Figure the first thing everyone did was lawyer up. Thats not really not cooperating thats just excercising their rights.

It should be that if you did nothing wrong you should feel safe in just being open and honest. But thats not always true.

For example, your testimnoy could open you up to a conspiracy charge. Or an aiding after the fact charge.

Also you could falsely implicate a friend and not even know it. I think I saw kddani enter the bathroom . . . when you didn't.

Does anyone remember that case well over ten years ago where a woman, a stockbroker i think, was raped and murdered in central park?

A bunch of 15-16 year olds were put in jail because they got confused during the interrogation, the police twisted their words and the police lied to them.

They spen years and jail and were finally released, here is a link:

http://www.counterpunch.org/cassel1221.html

Anyway, I don't think these players should be chastised by taking the advice of both counsel and good sense.

Ok, off topic but does anyone know if this is really true? Is it "legal" for them to lie, or do they just get away with it?

James, she wasn't murdered. She is still alive. She survived that incredibly violent attack. When she testified during the trial, she couldn't remember the details of the rape because she had head injuries so the DA relied on the police testimony about the interrogation.

I agree that what happened to those boys who are now grown men is terrible. What happened to the jogger is also terrible. Another terrible thing is that they didn't catch the real rapist who went on to rape and murder another woman.

I agree that the accused should not answer any questions and should hire a lawyer.

Well, it will all shake out sooner or later....

It's odd though that whenever we hear that someone was raped, most people first respond by thinking: What if she made it up? We don't think "maybe they got the wrong guy" when people get arrested for robbing a bank or taken in for murder. The evidence needs to be weighed deliberately, but most of the time I'd bet the victim is telling the truth. Evidence may overturn her report of the account so far, but I believe the girl.

However, I feel very sorry for the players involved. You know they were all drunk, and I am sure more than a few of them have no recollection of the evening. I'm sure a lot of them are just going by what their friends say happened and don't know the truth. You'd be more likely to believe your friends than a strange stripper.

Either way, privledged white college men let a situation get out of hand -- it was out of hand even if there was no rape. I hope they figure out that money can't get you out of everything.

You believe the girl but you don't know what happened huh? It's so odd that you consider all accused males to be guilty rapists.

Obviously a poor white girl like you is jaded.

-Rudey

Its not a question of whether or not the use of lies and/or misrepresentations by the police are legal, its a question of whether the suspects will was overborne in their act of confessing to a crime. Police are pretty much granted broad leighway in their tactics to secure a confession out of a suspect and as long as under all relevant circumstances it is not obvious that a person involuntarily confessed, they can do just about what they want.

I'm not responding to the rest of this topic. I'll just end up pissed off.

I'd venture to say that most people have the complete opposite reaction, i.e. "What a monster he is to rape someone." That's regardless of whether guilt or innocence has been proven.

Exactly...just like she did.

"We're trying to prove a negative here that they didn't do it," Sutton said. "That's not supposed to be the way our system works. The state is supposed make a case. If all 46 are exonerated, they've still been branded as racists and rapists."

-Rudey