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Wonderful1908 03-21-2006 12:28 AM

State of the Black Male
 
This article was featured in todays Houston Chronicle, I know much of this as an inner city public school teacher but the numbers are still alarming especially the unemployment rates of the dropouts compared to Hispanics and Whites. I really sometimes wonder as en educator is there any way to reverse this dire trend. Thoughts?

March 20, 2006, 12:10AM
Alarm sounded on the plight of black men in U.S.
They are falling further behind in employment and education, new studies show

By ERIK ECKHOLM
New York Times

BALTIMORE - The plight of U.S. black men is far more dire than is portrayed by employment and education statistics, a flurry of new studies warn, and it has kept worsening even as an economic boom and welfare reforms brought gains to black women and many other groups.

New studies by experts at Columbia, Princeton, Harvard and other institutions show that the huge pool of poorly educated black males is becoming ever more disconnected from the mainstream society and to a far greater degree than white or Hispanic males.

Especially in the inner cities, the studies show, finishing high school is the exception and prison is almost routine, with incarceration rates climbing for blacks even as urban crime rates decline. The new data paint an alarming picture of ravaged lives and, the scholars say, of a deepening national calamity that has received too little attention.

"There's something very different happening with young black men, and it's something we can no longer ignore," said Ronald Mincy, a professor of social work at Columbia University and editor of Black Males Left Behind. "Over the last two decades, the economy did great," Mincy said, "and low-skilled women, helped by public policy, latched onto it. But young black men were falling farther back."

Many of the new studies go beyond the traditional approaches to looking at the plight of black men, especially in determining unemployment. Official unemployment rates can be misleading, because they do not include those not seeking work or incarcerated.

"If you look at the numbers, the 1990s was a bad decade for young black men, even though it had the best labor market in 30 years," said Harry Holzer, an economist at Georgetown University and a coauthor of Reconnecting Disadvantaged Young Men.

•The share of young black men without jobs has climbed relentlessly, with only a slight pause during the economic peak of the late 1990s. In 2000, 65 percent of high school dropouts in their 20s were jobless. By 2004, the share had grown to 72 percent, compared with 34 percent of white dropouts and 19 percent of Hispanic dropouts.
•In 1995, 16 percent of black men in their 20s who did not attend college were in jail or prison; by 2004, 21 percent were incarcerated. By their mid-30s, six in 10 black men who have dropped out of school have spent time in prison.
•In the inner cities, more than half of all black men never finish high school.

MsSweetness 03-21-2006 01:01 AM

Yeah I'm feeling this article. This guy who lives across the street from my grandmother always helps her, shovels the snow, cuts the grass, walks her to the store etc. So one day (we're around the same age) I'm over there and he asks me if I know anyone that's hiring.

Sidenote: Nana lives in the hood.

At the time I was working in a federal building, but I told him I was unsure of my job b/c they were talking about laying us off. So after I tell him this he says, "oh well I can get a job there b/c I don't have a record." I was like :confused: I guess b/c it's not the first thing I would have thought to say to someone...but anyways..I told him that I'd look for a job for him. I didn't really want to finish the conversation because I wasn't sure if he had finished high school, is doing the gang stuff, narcotic stuff, etc. I didn't want to go there.

On my way home I called Nana and told her to ask him to send me his resume so I could see what experience he had. She told me that he probably doesn't have one, and that he probably doesn't have a computer and that he probably hadn't finished school. Even though I knew it was coming I just had to ask :(

I saw him again yesterday and gave him the number to the temp service I'm going through, but afterwards I realized that they request ppl to send a RESUME so they can get an idea of the experience you have. I asked him if he ever goes out to look for jobs, he said "yeah around the block." Then I said well how often do you go downtown to look for jobs and he said "sometimes when I feel like catching the bus." SIGH....The sad thing is I really don't think he knows what he's missing out on b/c he never leaves the block. He doesn't know that he needs to learn to type, have a resume, actually get out there and be on the grind looking for a job, get some business type clothes, he just doesn't know. And if he keeps running with the people that I think he is he's never gonna learn, they have no ambitions but hanging on the corner everyday.

My thing is, I really want to help him but I need to first help myself. I honestly don't have the time to sit down with him, help him fix up a resume, teach him how to type...and it really makes me sad. I think a lot of us know that we need to get into the community and sit some of these hard-headed youths down and teach them what they need to know but just "don't have the time" or whatever the reason may be. :( But I DO know OTHER people are sitting them down and teaching them how to lie, cheat and steal which is why they are ending up the way they are.

I know in Chicago we just lost a couple more black youths to jail and the cemetery because, in two unrelated incidents, two young girls were shot with stray bullets by random drive by shootings. The first was b/c some guy had a problem with another guy and I think his ex-girlfriend. Whatever the case, the little girl went looking out the window to see what was going on and ended up getting shot while she was getting ready for school. The other girl was celebrating her birthday in her aunt's house when some guys came down the block shooting randomly. :( Both girls were in elementary school.

Sorry this post was so long but all of this is just crazy to me.

UpPinkies 03-21-2006 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MsSweetness

I know in Chicago we just lost a couple more black youths to jail and the cemetery because, in two unrelated incidents, two young girls were shot with stray bullets by random drive by shootings. The first was b/c some guy had a problem with another guy and I think his ex-girlfriend. Whatever the case, the little girl went looking out the window to see what was going on and ended up getting shot while she was getting ready for school. The other girl was celebrating her birthday in her aunt's house when some guys came down the block shooting randomly. :( Both girls were in elementary school.

Sorry this post was so long but all of this is just crazy to me.

I live in Chicago too. It's just a sad state for black men here. My AA male co worker and I were talking about this today. He said he gets tired of AA males and their tunnel vision. He is tired of the asking for handouts. You want a job, but you want it to come to you while you sit at home or hang on the block. There is nothing on the block. What's wrong with a job hunt, getting up and looking.

Then this afternoon on WGCI, this random individual was talking about how it is hard to find a job out here and that with the state of AA women, they have now taken over all the jobs. My co-worker (AA female) and I just looked at each other and laughed. I get tired of the excuses. Don't put all the blame on the AA women.

Why don't you have a job? Do you have a record, need skill improvement, need a resume, etc? Well there are organizations that can help you with that. Hell, that is what I do for a living. I see sistas out here doing their thing and he is right, AA female are our here in force because we have to take care of the family, kids, etc and many of them want more then what they have. I know PLENTY who are going to school because without a degree, you cannot make a decent wage and they are starting to see that.

I could go on and on, but I have to stop.

AKA2D '91 03-21-2006 10:11 PM

At least college is an option for those you have mentioned. What about those who are dropping out? What about those who are in special education (most cases of drop outs), not obtaining a diploma, but a certificate which says..."David attended school through his 21st birthday"? :rolleyes:

A colleague and I were discussing this today, as we are in the midst of statewide testing. In the classes today are the products of the "children having children" generation. These students have not had the necessary guidance, because their parent(s) haven't been properly nurtured or guided. Fortunately, for most of the student's counterparts, they have something to fall on if they drop out or receive a high school diploma. Unfortunately, for our males, they do not.


What is the answer? I don't know. I do know that the crisis among our black males is not getting better. Education is NOT important to most. It is not an option as a means of success. It is not valued in their home. Their idea of success is being able to hustle for a quick cent. This quick fix leads to the statistics which were mentioned in the first post.

Oh, Af Am females are slowly following the males. Parents need to start PARENTING their children AND they need to become ACCOUNTABLE... going back to the basics...children need their fathers, NOT BABY DADDYs! These kids are SOOOOOOO angry that it is unreal! Then, you will find that the parents are angry as well. The cycle seems to never end.

MsSweetness 03-21-2006 10:49 PM

BTW, UpPinkies I sent you a PM (unrelated to this topic) :D

KAPPAtivating 03-22-2006 01:24 AM

As an AA male, I believe this is all related to generational curses as well as modern day slavery. I believe that there are many black males, much like myself, that would fit WEB Dubious's talented tenth. However, unlike the theory he came up with, we are not doing our job to help educate and free our enslaved bretheren. I am in the education business (high school), and I have had many of my AA male students tell me that the path I took to "success" is too long. They are needing instant gratification. We, as AA men have been conditioned to believe that if we are not repopulating society, then we are failing as individuals. Once we plant a few seeds here and there, it then becomes necessary for us to make a quick buck to buy our kids the newest Jordans or Mellos. We are only repeating a cycle of poverty and jail time. As a 29 yr. old man, I had to learn to be a man from other people. We do not have enough positive men acting as role models for those who do not have one. It is a sad situation that I see no quick solution.

CrimsonTide4 03-22-2006 09:07 AM

There was an article in yesterday's Charlotte Observer on the same lines as what you posted, Wonderful.

Title of Article: Black males struggle despite local efforts

As a boy, Deon Steele loved taking trips to the movies and to Carowinds with the Big Brothers Big Sisters program.

But on Monday, as the 25-year-old stood outside a Mecklenburg courtroom, he described himself as a high school dropout and former drug dealer whose most marketable skill is wiring car stereos in his yard.

If the plight of America's most troubled black men is worsening, as a recent New York Times story suggests, interviews Monday with young men like Steele and charities trying to help them
show things are also bleak in Charlotte and in North Carolina.

As of Jan. 31, there were 36,428 inmates in the N.C. Department of Correction; 20,166 were black men.

Unemployment in North Carolina for black men stands at 10 percent, compared to 4 percent for white men, according to 2005 figures from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. In Mecklenburg County, census data show 15 percent of black families live below the poverty level, compared to 5 percent of white families.

"It's just hard out here," Steele said as he waited to face a judge on a probation violation charge. "Ain't no jobs, police messing with you all the time ... We don't have anything to do, and that leads to other things."

It doesn't have to be that way, one Big Brothers Big Sisters official said. Sondra Hines, a vice president with the nonprofit, noted that it helps more than 1,800 children, and most who participate stay out of trouble and improve their grades.
She suggested Steele and young men like him need to check their own choices. Sondra Hines is a Soror.:)

"The same energy that they put into a life of crime, they could put that energy into bettering themselves," she said. "You can't succeed by sitting back and complaining about what could have been or should have been."

Still, the studies, detailed in a story the Observer published on its front page Monday, sketch a depressing picture of life for black men in America.

Conducted by Ivy League experts, the studies show that in the inner cities, many black men don't finish high school, can't find work and are locked behind bars.

Those problems aren't new. But the experts say they are growing worse.


Read the rest HERE

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The plight is sad, but it is not just Black males. It is the BLACK FAMILY as a whole that is in trouble. We have our priorities backwards and pass that on to our kids. Instead of being in the clubs shaking our collective azzes, we need to be at Borders and reading to our kids among many other things.

SummerChild 03-22-2006 12:37 PM

KAPPAtivating,
Do you think that more rites of passages programs from our fraternities would help or is that too short a time period? Would a Big Brother kind of program help?

SC


Quote:

Originally posted by KAPPAtivating
As an AA male, I believe this is all related to generational curses as well as modern day slavery. I believe that there are many black males, much like myself, that would fit WEB Dubious's talented tenth. However, unlike the theory he came up with, we are not doing our job to help educate and free our enslaved bretheren. I am in the education business (high school), and I have had many of my AA male students tell me that the path I took to "success" is too long. They are needing instant gratification. We, as AA men have been conditioned to believe that if we are not repopulating society, then we are failing as individuals. Once we plant a few seeds here and there, it then becomes necessary for us to make a quick buck to buy our kids the newest Jordans or Mellos. We are only repeating a cycle of poverty and jail time. As a 29 yr. old man, I had to learn to be a man from other people. We do not have enough positive men acting as role models for those who do not have one. It is a sad situation that I see no quick solution.

Steeltrap 03-22-2006 12:54 PM

I'd actually posted this article on a listserv I'm on. And I also don't have answers -- I am not a parent of a black male child or an educator. What makes me sad is that we have too many men who are just unfit for marriage and stable family formation. I admit to having bias because I was raised in a household where my Dad was present.

TonyB06 03-22-2006 01:09 PM

There are no easy answers here. Those of us trying to make a difference -- personally, and in the lives of those we can influence -- have to continue fighting the good fight and hope that help comes.

KAPPAtivating 03-22-2006 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SummerChild
KAPPAtivating,
Do you think that more rites of passages programs from our fraternities would help or is that too short a time period? Would a Big Brother kind of program help?

SC

This is not an overnight solution. One of out Philanthropies, Kappa League, works just to do that. However, we (as the collective NPHC) are going to have to change one mind at a time. I tell my kids all the time that success is achievable. With Kappa League, we make them mentor at the Boys and Girls Club, so they can see the importance of giving back to other kids who look like them and come from the same block as them.

darling1 03-23-2006 07:32 PM

very interesting..
 
this part of your post struck me because one of the things that my husband and i work on consistently is to eliminate the generational curses that have plagued our families. my husband is an anomoly in his family in that he is one of the few that hasnt been caught up in the system and started his family the 'traditional' way. i think that if those of us commit to ending the generational curses that is one step ahead of the game.

this problem is going to persist if we continue to feel powerless. @ms sweetness, by the mere fact that you are telling this guy something new, you may be planting a seed in his mind. if you know of places that offer keyboarding classes, like a community college, maybe the next time you see him you can give him the latest catalog. i know in my area the local community colleges send out class schedules for continuing education and they offer alot of basic soft ware classes, ged and keyboarding just to name a few.

i feel that as frustrating as it is, we shouldnt give up on our men. to just simply say that our men need to "get it together" is not enough. the problem is many of them are stuck; just like many of our girls are stuck--getting pregnant, laying down with anyone because they lack self-worth, self-love and have been told that they are nothing. if we just take one person and do something--whether its give an encouraging word, give them a ride down to the employment office or offer to take them to register for a class it is a start.

the most important thing is that we have to try because no one else is going to do it.


Quote:

Originally posted by KAPPAtivating
As an AA male, I believe this is all related to generational curses as well as modern day slavery.

white rapper 03-23-2006 07:36 PM

Since I am no longer in carcerated I umostly date black women. There is a large supply of quality black women and a small supply of quality black men so the price of my stock goes.

UpPinkies 03-23-2006 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steeltrap
What makes me sad is that we have too many men who are just unfit for marriage and stable family formation. I admit to having bias because I was raised in a household where my Dad was present.
In agreement
I too grew up in a household with my father and when I look around, finding a potential partner/mate/husband is very difficult. We need more than a rites of passage program, we need a program that addresses all the needs of that particular person/family etc. What we need to do is teach those who already have kids parenting skills. Not just males, but females too.

AKA_Monet 03-23-2006 09:28 PM

So I have heard that the military no longer takes folks who are high school dropouts. They use to a longtime ago. But then there are issues with that.

However, there is something that has to be said about the "military way", it does wonders for cleaning up the behavior and focus our wayward young men... Maybe the little guy who was "hot wiring" cars can be a very good "electronics technician". Then the G.I. Bill gives some benefits--even if Bush cuts a lot of that. Still there is something to be said of the stability of what the military provides that normal course of actions fail...

We can be as philosophical all we want, hoping for that "talented 10th" and intellectualism we desire. And there is something to be said that for the waywardism of youthful anger, resentment, hurt and exuberance can be harnessed for the vocational education to at least be able to live subsistiantely--i.e. being able to get basic food, clothing, shelter--without the legal system, volunteeringly and willingly.

We need to admit that some in our society are out-of-control and there isn't much we can do with them at a certain age but be strict regimented life less glorified than what their prophets--spelled=profits are telling them, like Fiddy Pennies, or 3 Six Mafia... Since that's what these children want to be when they grow up... These are their options.

So NO, they aren't going to get off their duff and get a job, get a resume and be a contributing member to society. We all know why that is and the reasons behind it. But there is a way to circumvent the problem besides mass sterilization and genocide, which is already occurring--and that is providing regimented structure that a military/vocational education does provide.

Maybe I am wrong in my opinion, but most guys I know who have done duty are doing pretty good or better than what they started from...

And I must say that if my father in law who had 2 sons, was not in the military, those boys of his would be buckwild... Like for ever letter of a curse word they would say, they'd have to do 10 push ups... That the military way...

UpPinkies 03-23-2006 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKA_Monet
So I have heard that the military no longer takes folks who are high school dropouts. They use to a longtime ago. But then there are issues with that.

However, there is something that has to be said about the "military way", it does wonders for cleaning up the behavior and focus our wayward young men... Maybe the little guy who was "hot wiring" cars can be a very good "electronics technician". Then the G.I. Bill gives some benefits--even if Bush cuts a lot of that. Still there is something to be said of the stability of what the military provides that normal course of actions fail...

We can be as philosophical all we want, hoping for that "talented 10th" and intellectualism we desire. And there is something to be said that for the waywardism of youthful anger, resentment, hurt and exuberance can be harnessed for the vocational education to at least be able to live subsistiantely--i.e. being able to get basic food, clothing, shelter--without the legal system, volunteeringly and willingly.

We need to admit that some in our society are out-of-control and there isn't much we can do with them at a certain age but be strict regimented life less glorified than what their prophets--spelled=profits are telling them, like Fiddy Pennies, or 3 Six Mafia... Since that's what these children want to be when they grow up... These are their options.

So NO, they aren't going to get off their duff and get a job, get a resume and be a contributing member to society. We all know why that is and the reasons behind it. But there is a way to circumvent the problem besides mass sterilization and genocide, which is already occurring--and that is providing regimented structure that a military/vocational education does provide.

Maybe I am wrong in my opinion, but most guys I know who have done duty are doing pretty good or better than what they started from...

And I must say that if my father in law who had 2 sons, was not in the military, those boys of his would be buckwild... Like for ever letter of a curse word they would say, they'd have to do 10 push ups... That the military way...


She called him fifty pennies.....fifty pennies....LOL

KAPPAtivating 03-24-2006 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by white rapper
Since I am no longer in carcerated I umostly date black women. There is a large supply of quality black women and a small supply of quality black men so the price of my stock goes.
White rapper I take strong offense to the comment that there are a small supply of quality black men. I beg to differ. There are a proportionate number of quality black men who have not been a part of the system, as you yourself have. On behalf of my black men, I will say that we must do our best to educate ourselves and become positive role models in our communities and families. You seem to me to be the type of person who wants desperately to be the "hard core" individual. You characterize yourself not as a rapper, but instead the "white" rapper. What does incareration have to do with dating black women? Please think before you post because although you may rap (which does not give you a pass to the hood), have been incarerated, and date black women, you still at the end of the day are not black!

MsSweetness 03-24-2006 12:33 AM

I agree with all that's being said, and I strongly believe that one person can make a difference. When I was in undergrad, MOST of the black guys thought they were "elite, one of the guys women want, the bees knees" just b/c they were getting a degree. You should've seen them. I mean, they would really say crazy things trying to make people think that they should be admired for going to school. Now, don't get me wrong, I am always proud when ANY black person goes to school, but please don't act like you are the first person to do it. And you most definitely will not be the last. They had their orgs, black male pride orgs, but they usually consisted of meetings on how they were "a rare species." I hardly ever saw them at any community service events, volunteering, nothing.

These are the people that our other black males should be listening to b/c they are/have been through it, but who wants to listen to someone who is cocky?? Who wants to sit there and listen to you talk about yourself? And it wasn't just guys at my school, my friends at other schools acted the same way. In my opinion, going to school is something that you are SUPPOSED to do, no need to brag about it :rolleyes: But that's just how I was raised. I'm sure that those we need to help want to hear success stories, but they also want to know how they can succeed as well.

KAPPAtivating 03-24-2006 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MsSweetness
I agree with all that's being said, and I strongly believe that one person can make a difference. When I was in undergrad, MOST of the black guys thought they were "elite, one of the guys women want, the bees knees" just b/c they were getting a degree. You should've seen them. I mean, they would really say crazy things trying to make people think that they should be admired for going to school. Now, don't get me wrong, I am always proud when ANY black person goes to school, but please don't act like you are the first person to do it. And you most definitely will not be the last. They had their orgs, black male pride orgs, but they usually consisted of meetings on how they were "a rare species." I hardly ever saw them at any community service events, volunteering, nothing.

These are the people that our other black males should be listening to b/c they are/have been through it, but who wants to listen to someone who is cocky?? Who wants to sit there and listen to you talk about yourself? And it wasn't just guys at my school, my friends at other schools acted the same way. In my opinion, going to school is something that you are SUPPOSED to do, no need to brag about it :rolleyes: But that's just how I was raised. I'm sure that those we need to help want to hear success stories, but they also want to know how they can succeed as well.

I somewhat agree, but the reason I tell my story to my students is because I want them to understand that I could have been the incarerated cousin, or I could've been the dead friend, or the drug dealing baby-daddy. However, I want them to know that life is about choices that I made. I want them to know that EXCUSES are not a solution or a reason to settle for less. That is why I tell my story. And to some, I probably do seem "cocky", but I (just like many other of my peers, and ancestors) beat the system and the odds!

MsSweetness 03-24-2006 01:15 AM

Quote:

[i] but I (just like many other of my peers, and ancestors) beat the system and the odds! [/B]
And I am happy that you did! :D Please continue to tell your story to them. Everyone needs someone to look up to.

Wonderful1908 03-24-2006 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MsSweetness
I agree with all that's being said, and I strongly believe that one person can make a difference. When I was in undergrad, MOST of the black guys thought they were "elite, one of the guys women want, the bees knees" just b/c they were getting a degree. You should've seen them. I mean, they would really say crazy things trying to make people think that they should be admired for going to school. Now, don't get me wrong, I am always proud when ANY black person goes to school, but please don't act like you are the first person to do it. And you most definitely will not be the last. They had their orgs, black male pride orgs, but they usually consisted of meetings on how they were "a rare species." I hardly ever saw them at any community service events, volunteering, nothing.

These are the people that our other black males should be listening to b/c they are/have been through it, but who wants to listen to someone who is cocky?? Who wants to sit there and listen to you talk about yourself? And it wasn't just guys at my school, my friends at other schools acted the same way. In my opinion, going to school is something that you are SUPPOSED to do, no need to brag about it :rolleyes: But that's just how I was raised. I'm sure that those we need to help want to hear success stories, but they also want to know how they can succeed as well.

I observe this opinion alot as well, especially at work. Many of my co-workers think they are the gift to every lonely Black woman in America.

Back to the topic-
I literally have students who tell me that they have no desire to do anything in life productive, how can you want to be an aspiring loser at 14 years old? I already know this has to do with socioeceonomic status, parents, etc. but it can be so depressing. Many of my kids didn't have a chance coming out the gate. What makes this so disturbing is depsite the obstacles my students deal with the Hispanics and White males may not want a formal education but they have no problem with the theme of the military or working.

enigma_AKA 03-24-2006 09:56 AM

KAPPATivating, I think 'white rapper' is a troll/joke; we all know how absurd his post(s) is/are. :rolleyes: I wouldn't take him serious...

As far as the discussion is concerned, I think a lot of it has to do with our connection to our history/struggle (amongst other reasons). Many people, especially those of my generation, are out of touch with what it took for them to get here. Many aren't appreciative of just how the odds were against them, how much sacrifice and so forth it took just to get decent wages/adequate living opportunities. This added to a shift of values without proper education/means (i.e. parents/single parent who think it's better for their child to look good/play basketball than it is to sit down and do homework with them after school added to poor school conditions, etc) has allowed a sense of complaceny.

Especially with the Black male. The emasculation of Black men from slavery, prevalent fear of Black men, devaluing of their counterparts (Black women) and social/institutional barriers to real, quantified success (excluding professional sports membership and entertainment)...it's been a long, destructive cycle. So, now, it's time to break it.

enigma_AKA

Quote:

Originally posted by KAPPAtivating
White rapper I take strong offense to the comment that there are a small supply of quality black men. I beg to differ. There are a proportionate number of quality black men who have not been a part of the system, as you yourself have. On behalf of my black men, I will say that we must do our best to educate ourselves and become positive role models in our communities and families. You seem to me to be the type of person who wants desperately to be the "hard core" individual. You characterize yourself not as a rapper, but instead the "white" rapper. What does incareration have to do with dating black women? Please think before you post because although you may rap (which does not give you a pass to the hood), have been incarerated, and date black women, you still at the end of the day are not black!

RBL 03-24-2006 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by white rapper
Since I am no longer in carcerated I umostly date black women. There is a large supply of quality black women and a small supply of quality black men so the price of my stock goes.
COMEDY and completely untrue....

AKA_Monet 03-24-2006 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MsSweetness
I agree with all that's being said, and I strongly believe that one person can make a difference. When I was in undergrad, MOST of the black guys thought they were "elite, one of the guys women want, the bees knees" just b/c they were getting a degree. You should've seen them. I mean, they would really say crazy things trying to make people think that they should be admired for going to school. Now, don't get me wrong, I am always proud when ANY black person goes to school, but please don't act like you are the first person to do it. And you most definitely will not be the last. They had their orgs, black male pride orgs, but they usually consisted of meetings on how they were "a rare species." I hardly ever saw them at any community service events, volunteering, nothing.

These are the people that our other black males should be listening to b/c they are/have been through it, but who wants to listen to someone who is cocky?? Who wants to sit there and listen to you talk about yourself? And it wasn't just guys at my school, my friends at other schools acted the same way. In my opinion, going to school is something that you are SUPPOSED to do, no need to brag about it :rolleyes: But that's just how I was raised. I'm sure that those we need to help want to hear success stories, but they also want to know how they can succeed as well.

and

Quote:

Originally posted by KAPPAtivating
I somewhat agree, but the reason I tell my story to my students is because I want them to understand that I could have been the incarerated cousin, or I could've been the dead friend, or the drug dealing baby-daddy. However, I want them to know that life is about choices that I made. I want them to know that EXCUSES are not a solution or a reason to settle for less. That is why I tell my story. And to some, I probably do seem "cocky", but I (just like many other of my peers, and ancestors) beat the system and the odds!
My Soror Enigma alluded to it, but I want to hone it is some more:

What IS the BLACK MAN? What is his definition? What does it mean for him to be a MAN?

I have my definition--my father and my grandfather... Both are exceptional men who accomplished a lot--especially my grandfather who was a pioneer in his time. A Black man in the south, attended college, got a degree, got a Master's degree--by the early 1930's. Then worked with Mary McLeod Bethune, then became the President of Bethune-Cookman... They DON'T make them like that anymore... I only knew him as my granddaddy. But others knew him a great man. Still others in his own family, his sons hated him because he and his wife believed in the chastenining rod to discipline children--what would clearly be labeled as abuse by today's standards...

My father was allowed privilege due to my grandfather's sacrifices. He became a dentist from Meharry--it was either Meharry or Howard back in the day... He worked very hard for that degree. But he endured racism and bigotry throughout his life and career. He's still holding on, but age and health is still not the best for him... Just like my grandfather, he's still blessed with those wonderful health conditions that old African American men suffer...

It's one thing for you mama to tell you to do something... It's another when your dad has to tell you to do something... And it's another when your granddad-especially like mine--had to tell you do something--and he didn't tell you to do it, twice...

But my question still remains: What is the definition of a Black MAN?

I am blessed to have found "my definition" in my husband. He is a nerdy goofy fuzz ball... But then again, so am I--and he's truly a MAN in all sense of the word. Loving, caring, manly, hard-working, very intelligent, and he attended Morehouse--where too many brothas are uber-cocky--I know I attended Spelman--and we are just as saditity... ;)

KAPPAtivating 03-25-2006 12:48 AM

I don't think there is a "definition" of a man. There are many things that go into factoring that. I consider myself a man because I know the essence of how to take care of myself, and I have beaten the odds that were against me. I do agree with you that your grandfather and father are both good men, but God does make them like that still. It all depends where you look to find us. In my opinion, a man can take care of what ever situation he gets himself in, and can also be willing to admit his own faults along with his successes.

The Cushite 03-25-2006 11:22 AM

Interesting Thread
 
The plight of the Black Man, what a topic. I think that ultimately we have to recognize the complexity of our circumatance to begin to understand the plight.

To be a man in a eurocentric, patriarchal society requires you to assume a certain role in the social stratum that calls for an overwhelming degree of alienation (i.e. being something you, by nature, are not). Masculinity in this society requires a desire to dominate the people, space, and resources around you (hence the notions of Manifest destiny and imperialism of the 19th and 20th Centuries). When these values are injected into a capitalist economy, power equates with capital ownership. So a real man has to own capital, under this definition. A "real man" also has to dominate women physically, economically, and sexually (hence the double standard about sexual promiscuity among the sexes). Couple these assertions with the assumptions of a white supremacist society (a de facto caste society in which blackness equates to perpetual social disfranchisement and political exclusion), and the black man finds himself chasing a masculinity that he can never obtain. This results in black men being at the brunt of social demonization and exploitation, and ultimately personal alienation and the exhibition of what are deemed "self-destructive" risky behaviors (i.e. drug abuse, hyper sexuality, greed and criminality). We must instead impress upon our young men that masculinity is not predicated on power (read money in our society check the notion of "Get Rich or Die Tryin' ", we'd rather be dead than poor). Instead, we should champion a masculinity that develops within young men a sense of purpose grounded in the pursuit of knowledge, wisdom, understanding, peace, discipline, and most importanlty love (traits that more accurately describe Jesus). This would in turn create in us a more critical mind that would reject the spiritual, mental, and ultimately physical death that is White, European Masculinity.

There have been some interesting proposals in this thread to deal with this issue, from simply bootstrapping ourselves to military discipline ( I have reservations with this notion, but I'll deal with those in another post). But, no one has mentioned a critical movement grounded in the consciousness of love. In order to begin to address the plight of black men, we must first affirm our love for black men (and boys). We must stop the perceptual demonization of our black men. In the book The Covenant compiled by Tavis Smiley's foundation, there is a chapter dealing with how black men were characterised as super-criminal by the Bush Administration in 1999. This was but one instance in the long history of the demonization of the image of the black man by the American power elite. It is out of this history that we come to have policy directives that serve to disproportionately incarcerate, disfranchise, and physically destroy black men. We have to begin to assert that the recent hype over the disproportinate social disengagement of black men since the late 80's (Check the article in this thread) has to culminate in an affirmation of the black man as fully human and his condition is the result of systemic evil, not moral, intellectual, or spiritual defect (or at least not any more than any other people have). Once we assert that the black man is worthy of the resources needed to elevate his condition, then we will be at ease with rendering the resources necessary to deal with said condition.

Next, we as a nation must see that inequality and poverty, especially in light of such a prosperous nation, is indeed immoral. We must maintain a critical consciousness of such bedrock institutions such as our educational, penal, medical, and governmantal entities. This critical consciousness must be guided by our love of justice, peace, and righteousness. We cannot let, as Dr. Cornell West describes as "Market Fundamentalism" be the overarching value of our people. "It sells" cannot justify criminal, exlpoitive , and dehumanizing behavior by us nor by the power elite. Where is our poor people's campaign? Our socialist consciousness? Before the notion gets dismissed, like it generally does in these forums, please someone tell me how we can have a collective struggle for freedom, justice, and equality within a system (political, social, and economic) that sees these things as "idealistic" at best and "impossible" at worst. How can we "overcome" if we don't have as a normative value the essential equality of all people, regardless of socio-economic status? Simply becomming better capitalists splinters us more as a people, because the very system of capitalism is predicated upon inequality, exploitation, and competition. These values are counter-intutitive to collective struggle.

Our black men have disproportionate plight because we are disproportionately deprived of a democratic right to life, liberty, and self-determination. On the surface, it may seem that oppressed people are simply making bad choices, but with further examination of the contexts under which many live, we can see that limited capital constrains choice in a capitalistic society. We cherish our moral tradition, and we should always champion discipline, righteousness, personal responsibility and wisdom for everyone, regardless of social condition. But what about the moral correctness of the "Heaven on Earth" (read as social equality) championed by Jesus Christ himself. In doing this, we must consider the just-ness of, as Stokley Carmichael explained in Black Power, the "internal colonies" not only of the so called Ghetto, but of a population of black people whose only resourse is labor which gets exploited by power elites.


Blackwatch!!!!!!

AKA_Monet 03-27-2006 03:11 AM

^^^
 
Phrat Blackwatch:

Again, you hit the proverbial nail right onto the "hands" and "feet"... ;)

And you said something that I had forgotten: To save our boys and men of African descent is to grounded in "love"--in the truest sense...

Now that dennotative definition of love has to be transcendent--the kind of love that becomes the true essence of the Spirit.

However, to get to that point, requires a "blood sacrifice"--usually. Someone or some people are going to have to die, needlessly for the Ethereal to respond or invocation to reach and change hearts...

That is just one way it could happen. There may be plenty others. We can define and redefine, but what is practical?

The flip side of this debate is who is rearing these boys into physical men--albeit behaviorally deemed in this society as dysfunctional? More often than not, it is "babies raising babies" or "grandma with a bunch a kids dropped off by absent and neglectful parents"... Grandma may be too old to handle what soceital pressures go on today and does the best she can with what she has. Maybe she cannot do anymore--so what should we have expected?

The other issue is little girls having babies in the worst kind of conditions. Namely, what 12 year old really will know to have prenatal care? And if it is bad for Black boys, how far behind are Black girls? Just 5 years from now, Black girls will catch up, too...

Stopgap measurements: some say is "early childhood development" programs--all cut by the current US administration and somewhat before.

The study has just summarily written off an entire generation. And that is what I find that sucks about this situation...

Meanwhile, the Boys and Girls Clubs of America celebrates 100 years of its existance...

Go figure...

Lady of Pearl 03-28-2006 09:30 PM

:( Yes the state of African American Males is sad, most of the jobs if they are lucky to get one are out in the suburban areas. Those in the inner city lack the skills and transportation to get to those jobs. So, I think an alternative would be for them to learn a trade or skill such as apprenticeship programs in electiricity, carpentry, computer etc. to them for possible consideration. They need to look beyond just acquiring a job -look at vocational education, apprenticeship, and entrepreneurial activities to attract and keep their interest rather than become fodder for the prison system!

MsSweetness 03-31-2006 01:32 AM

I called my grandmother's neighbor and gave him a job lead for the White Sox baseball park. I gave the info to his mom so hopefully she relays the info. :D It only pays minimum wage but hey, it's better than nothing! :D

Now if only someone would call me with a job lead :o

white rapper 03-31-2006 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KAPPAtivating
White rapper I take strong offense to the comment that there are a small supply of quality black men. I beg to differ. There are a proportionate number of quality black men who have not been a part of the system, as you yourself have. On behalf of my black men, I will say that we must do our best to educate ourselves and become positive role models in our communities and families. You seem to me to be the type of person who wants desperately to be the " " individual. You characterize yourself not as a rapper, but instead the "white" rapper. What does incareration have to do with dating black women? Please think before you post because although you may rap (which does not give you a pass to the hood), have been incarerated, and date black women, you still at the end of the day are not black!
No need to be hatin. I am just keepin it real. I calle it the way I see it.

KAPPAtivating 04-01-2006 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by white rapper
No need to be hatin. I am just keepin it real. I calle it the way I see it.
Hatin':confused: ? Please, from the sound of it you would love to be me, but then again, if I were you I would too:cool: . Continue to TRY and be like me, but in reality you never will!

AKA2D '91 04-10-2006 10:15 AM

I've been away from work since Thursday morning. My assistant informed me that one of our students (hasn't been in here since January) killed another student on Thursday. The victim did not attend school here. Apparently, the two had been feuding, and the perpetrator (the incident witnessed by many) went into a rage and stabbed the person to death.

The sad part about it is, you try to talk them about doing the right thing, but now it's too late. Fortunately, for the perp, he had not been with me for nearly 3 months. (So I guess he did listen, some what) When I'd see him on campus, he'd remind me that he hadn't been assigned to me.
Then, I'd applaud him for actions and continue to encourage him.
It's too bad that during his rage, he could not hear me telling him to "do the right thing".



:(

Wonderful1908 04-10-2006 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
I've been away from work since Thursday morning. My assistant informed me that one of our students (hasn't been in here since January) killed another student on Thursday. The victim did not attend school here. Apparently, the two had been feuding, and the perpetrator (the incident witnessed by many) went into a rage and stabbed the person to death.

The sad part about it is, you try to talk them about doing the right thing, but now it's too late. Fortunately, for the perp, he had not been with me for nearly 3 months. (So I guess he did listen, some what) When I'd see him on campus, he'd remind me that he hadn't been assigned to me.
Then, I'd applaud him for actions and continue to encourage him.
It's too bad that during his rage, he could not hear me telling him to "do the right thing".



:(

Soror I am sorry to hear this. I found out earlier this year one of our former students had been killed, it breaks your heart because so much could be avoided but they insist on learning the hard way and sometimes they learn the hardest way. :(

ann.coulter2 10-23-2006 11:10 PM

* 67% of Black children are born out of wedlock.
 
The Silent Genocide - Facts about the Deepening Plight of Black Men in America.

In Education/Family

* Only 41% of Black men graduate from high school in the United States.
* Just 22 % of Black males who began at a four-year college graduated within six years.
* 69% of Black children in America cannot read at grade level in the 4th grade, compared with 29% among White children.
* 7% of Black 8th-graders perform math at grade level.
* 32% of all suspended students are Black. Black students (mostly Black males) are twice as likely as Whites to be suspended or expelled.
* 67% of Black children are born out of wedlock.

In Employment/Economics

* At comparable educational levels, Black men earn 67% of what White men make.
* White males with a high-school diploma are just as likely to have a job and tend to earn just as much as Black males with college degrees.
* Blacks make up only 3.2% of lawyers, 3% of doctors, and less than 1% of architects in America. Many of these are Black women.
* 53% of Black men aged 25-34 are either unemployed or earn too little to lift a family of four from poverty.
* Light-skinned Blacks have a 50% better chance of getting a job than dark-skinned Blacks.
* While constituting roughly 12% of the total population, Black America represents nearly 30% of America's poor.
* 45% of Black children live below the poverty line, compared with 16% of White children.
* The net worth of a Black family in America is $6,100 versus $67,000 for a White family.
* In New York City in 2003 only 51.8% of Black men ages 16 to 64 were employed vs. 75.7% for White men and 65.7% for Latino men.
* White men with prison records receive far more offers for entry-level jobs in New York City than black men with identical records, and are offered jobs just as often - if not more so - than black men who have never been arrested.

In Incarceration/Crime:

* In 2001, the chances of going to prison were highest among Black males (32.2%) and Hispanic males (17.2%) and lowest among White males (5.9%).
* Blacks account for only 12% of the U.S. population, but 44 % of all prisoners in the United States are Black.
* Blacks, who comprise only 12% of the population and account for about 13% of drug users, constitute 35% of all arrests for drug possession, 55% of all convictions on those charges, and 74% of all those sentenced to prison for possession.
* In at least fifteen states, Black men were sent to prison on drug charges at rates ranging from twenty to fifty-seven times those of White men.
* In 1986, before mandatory minimums for crack offenses became effective, the average federal drug offense sentence for Blacks was 11% higher than for Whites. Four years later following the implementation of harsher drug sentencing laws, the average federal drug offense sentence was 49% higher for Blacks.
* 1,172 Black children and teenagers in the United States died from gunfire in 2003.
* A young Black male in America is more likely to die from gunfire than was any soldier in Vietnam.
* The Justice Department estimates that one out of every 21 Black men can expect to be murdered, a death rate double that of U. S. soldiers in World War II.
* 1.46 million Black men out of a total voting population of 10.4 million have lost their right to vote due to felony convictions.

JOHN A. HOUSTON United States District Judge United States Courthouse 940 Front Street, Room 2140 San Diego, CA 92101 (619) 557-5716

If you would like to voice your comments online, you can go to http://www.eddengear.com/forum

black_princess 10-24-2006 01:30 AM

To Ann.Coulter2
 
[Side bar ]

I just find your screen name interesting . . .

[End Side-bar]

Honeykiss1974 10-24-2006 10:25 AM

These statistics were compiled from various sources by The Black Star Project. You may email us to request sources at blackstar1000@ameritech.net. To join the movement to save young Black men and to educate Black children, call us at 312/842-3527, email us at blackstar1000@ameritech.net or visit our website at www.blackstarproject.org.

Just for those like myself who were wondering where these "stats" come from.

AKA2D '91 10-24-2006 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ann.coulter2 (Post 1344530)
* 32% of all suspended students are Black. Black students (mostly Black males) are twice as likely as Whites to be suspended or expelled.

My district far exceeds this stat, hence our corrective action mandate. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

KAPPAtivating 10-24-2006 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKA2D '91 (Post 1344812)
My district far exceeds this stat, hence our corrective action mandate. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If you do not mind me asking...what does the mandate consist of in a nutshell? What bothers me is the statistic referring to the reading levels of African American males. As a person who works with this age group daily, it is very discouraging when you find that the majority of students cannot read past an elementary level. This is a major snowball effect because if you cannot read or comprehend then you cannot answer state test questions accurately (which I find to be a joke in the first place). Things need to take place in our elementary schools to correct this problem...i.e. do away with social promotions!

AKA2D '91 10-25-2006 08:25 AM

During the '05-'06 SY, the mandate required that SPED students, who were disproportionately being suspended/expelled, had to have some type of intervention because of their "disability". Therefore, a Intervention/SPED In School suspension was established only on the HS level. This year, the program was expanded to the middle school level. Then, we are under another CAP (corrective action plan) where these same students can be suspended (out of school) for ONLY 10, yes TEN days of the school year (180 days). :rolleyes:

At a recent meeting, it was mentioned that our district has a disproportionate amount of SPED students being arrested. I think in one month 300 students were being arrested on campus.

As I've said before, regular ed students are being discriminated against. Parents need to check out how these laws protect certain students who usually are the instigators. That's another discussion for another forum. ;)

:D

AKA_Monet 10-25-2006 08:31 PM

It's a small world after all!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ann.coulter2 (Post 1344530)
The Silent Genocide - Facts about the Deepening Plight of Black Men in America.

JOHN A. HOUSTON United States District Judge United States Courthouse 940 Front Street, Room 2140 San Diego, CA 92101 (619) 557-5716

How funny, I know Judge Houston and his wife, Dr. Houston, personally... They have visited my parent's house on several occasions--especially for our wedding reception. Their son is an upstanding young man--reminescent of Harold Ford...

It's a small world after all...


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