Interracial relationships, the acid test of racism?
 

I am watching the movie "Something New" the other night and a piece of dialogue stuck out.

The female lead says she doesn't date white men, its a preference not a prejudice.

He replies, ITs your preference to be prejudiced?

The movie itself is about a black woman that starts dating a white man against her better judgement but falls in love with him.

So I thought about that piece of dialogue.

I mean if I am attracted to a member of another race but refuse to date her wouldn't that make me racist?

Lets make it even less easy to rationalize. Lets say the girl comes froma similar background and socio-economic status.

If I am attracted to her and won't date her, I guess that would make me a racist.

If I wouldn't date a girl that had less money, I would be a snob or elitist . . . but in this case the reason would be race.

I mean seriously, we can mouth all the platitudes in the world about our tolerance, about how we have friends from other races, and how race doesn't shouldn't matter.

But, the put up or shut up time might very well be when confronted with attraction to a member of another race . . . and then whether we decide to date them or not.

A sort of real life acid test of our convictions.

Anyone else have an opinion? If you are attracted to a member of another race and refuse to date them, are you not in fact racist?

I emphasize attraction because its hard to help who you are attracted to.

I do not think that it is entirely fair to say that because you won't date another race, it makes you racist. On the other hand, you should definitely analyze your reasons, because they make hold some racist views.
But I believe that someone can choose the kind of person that they want to date and NOT be racist or elitist or whatever.

I will never date someone with a criminal record regardless if he changed his life around. Does that make me intolerant? No. It is my preference.

You can prefer to date a certain race and not have to prove your racial tolerance to others by dating another race or ethnicity. If you do not want to date someone of another race, you do not have to. There could be plenty of other reasons why that has NOTHING do with being racist. You do not have say "oh yeah, of course I will date outside my race" to be considered racially tolerant. It is your perrogative. You know your own heart and views. If there are some racist attitudes, then change it.


ETA: I would love to hear Jill1228's thoughts on this.

I don't think it's as cut and dried as James makes it out to be. At some point, people need to understand that every time someone expresses a preference for something that it doesn't automatically mean that everything else is somehow "less than".

I prefer to drive compact cars over a huge SUV. Does that mean I hate SUVs? No, it simply means that it doesn't fit in with my lifestyle, and my self-perception. More power to anyone who does drive one in the face of soaring gas prices.

In many ways, the issues brought up in the film Something New (which I haven't seen) cross over into greek life as well, but that's probably a topic for a thread of its own.

I think there's a world of difference between saying "I prefer to date black men because we share similar cultural experiences and the way we look at the world," versus saying "I prefer to date black men because I don't like/don't trust white people." I don't think it makes you racist to say that you would prefer to date members of your own race. Furthermore, I don't think you really even need to qualify why you've made that choice unless you fear being misunderstood, and you think it's important for people to know that your preference isn't based on xenophobia or hatred.

Preference does not equal prejudice in every situation.

I think you are both raising good points.

But again I would like to place the emphasis on situations where you are highly attracted to a member of another race.

In the abstract, or in the resume approach to dating, there are a lot of people that we might not date if we had pre qualified them, but that we did date because we got to know them and ended up liking them, or we were just highly attracted to them.

So yes, I do understand what you are saying about preferences.

But what I am talking about is meeting someone you are strongly attracted to and that all else being equal you would be tripping over yourself to date them, but won't because they are not the same race.

I think that goes beyond mere preference.

I don't think I'm racist. But I've never dated anyone other than white. I just don't think the opportunity has presented itself.

Now if I had a chance with let's say Keith Bogans or Ludicrus and I didn't jump on it ......I would find that somewhat unsettling in my head. B/c both of those men I find attractive.

Maybe it does in your specific case, James. If so, then I can't really say whether you're racist or not.

Maybe you don't want to date outside of your race because you don't want to put up with the societal pressure. Maybe you don't want to date outside your race because of the "unknown" factor. Are those racist reasons? I really don't think so.

However, if the only thing you can come up with is "I don't want do date this person because she's non-white", then you have to ask yourself what that means to you, and what pre-conceived notions you're bringing to the table of what that non-whiteness means. If non-white = inferior, then yes, it's racism.

But as they say in the musical Avenue Q, "Everyone's a little bit racist sometimes/doesn't mean we go around commiting hate crimes..." ;)

Y'all have made some excellent points! I've never dated a non-white man, even though I have a biracial cousin (foster that she may be, we're very close). I honestly think it's more because I've seen first-hand the confusion she's dealt with over the years than anything else. Yet I've noticed over the years that I also have a preference for blond or red-haired men who are between 5'10" and 5'11 1/2" and left-handed. Of course it's not written in stone, but when someone sees a photo of someone you dated in high school and thinks it's the man you're currently dating, I'd say that you have a pattern.

Following a preference is one thing. Denying a very real attraction because you feel you're better than the other person is what would make you a racist.

Personally.

I like anything thats good looking regardless of background.

Oh my - you really said "anything." :p

that's all fine and good, but in this movie it was more than "like" cause they eventually get married.

p.s. doens't anyone see that the movie was more about class than race? honestly, she would have NOT dated/married that guy if he was black.

there's one part of the movie where she says to simon baker's character "you couldn't afford me," which i think was pretty clear... she seemed to want someone successful with prestige and $, but blair underwood's character was "perfect" but even after those things on her "list," it wasnt was she wanted.


Anyone else have an opinion? If you are attracted to a member of another race and refuse to date them, are you not in fact racist?

I emphasize attraction because its hard to help who you are attracted to.

to answer your question:
No, this wouldn't make you a racist. i think we've all been attracted to ppl outside our race, but choose not to date them for many reasons, including "well, theyre ___________ (fill in whatever race)" but it's reality because of whatever behavior you associate with that race, and that's the prejudice. so if i say, "i'm attracted to white men but i won't date them," its not solely cause he;s white, its because of the characteristics i may associate with white men that i dont find attractive in men overall.

the only reasonable parallel i can draw is this: surely, ive been attracted to my share of women, and i can comfortably say that, but would i ever date a woman, prolly not. does that mean i'm sexist/homophobic? hardly. do i have a preference as to which sex i date? surely.

p.s. there are pages on this very topic in the AKA forum if you're interested in varying opinions.

I would. Date some one out of "race"


I don't even like that term, as it implies running, which I find pointless, since I have an automobile.

ROTFL!!!!!!!!

Is this the same as "I have friends who are black"? Why do you mention her in every single discussion about race that ever comes up around here?

A) Because I'm very proud of Monica.
B) Because there are people with signatures etc who incorrectly insinuate that a white person cannot live or have lived below the Mason-Dixon line without being a flaming racist.
C) Because, in a way, having had the experience of growing up with her gives me a perspective that many other white people don't have.
D) Not everyone is so fascinated with my posts that they need to read every one of them.

Hope that satisfies you for now.

The same reason she brings up her cousin that is a Jew for Jesus. I mean it's not a big deal or anything; it's just kinda strange.

And dating someone or having sex with them really doesn't make you a better person. Go up to any guy and ask him "Would you hit it?" and you'll see how he surprises you.

-Rudey

ROTFL!

I once worked a governmental position, where I had to make up a book of clearances for everyone who would be on the site. I was given the standard forms to use, and under "Race", I got the funniest answers! My favorite was "Winning".

Rudey, I don't have any cousins who are Jews for Jesus. I do, however, know and have worked with a few.

My Jewish cousins are Jewish, by (their own definition) birth and by religion.

We've been over this.

Your cousins are Christian, by the Jewish definition.

-Rudey
--And they should be proud, and not embarassed of their beliefs.

Very good point.

So is this thread about seriously considering someone of a another ethnicity as a dating partner that you can bring home to mom and dad or just "hitting it". Because Rudey does make a good point.

My girlfriend is black. Well, Creole actually. At first she was a little hesitant with dating a non black guy. But, she got over it. We have a connection that is pretty deep.

Honestly, we forget that we are different races sometimes, except when we go to her family functions and all her family members stare at me. Oh well. I tell that I listened to Eazy E and Rass Kass growing up so I've got street cred. They then laugh and learn to love me, just the way all of you on GC have learned to do with the exception of Kddani.

Awww, that's cute.

I've only dated Black and Hispanic men. I used to think I would never date a white man simply because I felt like he may not understand me culturally. I don't feel this way now though, because he can always learn about it, and vice versa. I also think it's not only a race thing for me, but a class thing. I think I could relate to people easier if we're in the same class, regardless of race. I don't know, it's not as big a deal to me anymore.

I can definitely say that 95% of the differences between me and my SO (who is white) are class related. He grew up a la "mom moved everytime the rent was due" whereas I grew up middle class with both parents (for a while). I was surprised because I did expected it to be cultural, but its not.

My SO and I have age and gender issues moreso than anything else. :) We have somewhat similar backgrounds and education, so those things tend not to factor into anything.

There's some interesting research that suggests that one of the key social movements within "Generation Y" is just this - class associations are more important than racial or ethnic associations.

-RC
--"My best friend is poor" is the new "my best friend is black" . . .

Man---if I had a dollar everytime I heard that! (re:"My best friend/childhood playmate/neighbor/etc is Black"...usually followed or prefaced by "I'm not racist"), I'd be rich. Especially at my school. :rolleyes:

As far as the class associations are concerned, I'd be interested in hearing more on that, especially in terms of educational attainment (new class and so on). That certainly seems to be the case, nowadays.

To answer the OP: No, I think racist is far fetched. Prejudiced yes; limited in thinking and in expectations, yes. Racist no. I think it's a matter of comfort--how far one is willing to reach out/live outside of their own boundaries and understanding of race, social conditions, etc and get with/date/grow with another.

I don't agree that the movie was more about class issues, but I can see how the differences in her background compared to his added to issues of race. For him, it wasn't as much of a concern-who he was attracted to and who he could date. For Black women, oftentimes, we are expected to date within our own. Not saying it's right or wrong. That just more often than not, this seems to be the case. I can't speak for any other women of a different race.

I don't have any issues with dating outside of my race. I'm attracted to anyone who is attractive. As far as dating goes--either we kick it or we don't. You can be Black, White, Purple, Green, Orange, etc--if you're wack, you're wack. If you're cool, then cool. Period.

enigma_AKA

Well said, enigma.

But if someone is purple, you should stop chillin and call the doctor before they choke to death. I hope you know the heimlich.

^^^ What about the green dude?! :p

And purple guy will have to choke in a public space. My heimlich skills need some attention--we might not make it to a doctor in time....j/k.

enigma_AKA

LOL, I know that's 'classist' of me, but knowing is half the battle.

Oh, and I think I'm generation X, but I get your point. ;)

Sometimes, more cultural issues exist with couples who are of the SAME race. My cousin recently married, and her husband is Chinese like herself. She's from Hong Kong, he's from Malaysia. Malaysian Chinese are much, much, much more "old fashioned" than Hong Kongers and her parents and his parents had lots of issues about how the wedding should be done. For example, it's rare to see unmarried sibings participate in the tea ceremony (serving tea to the new couple) in Hong Kong and addressing them as "Sister-In-Law" and "Brother", but it's apparently still common in Malaysia. In Hong Kong, you only serve tea to those in the older generations and married siblings.)

Check this out. My best friend really is black. And she is also a lesbian. So she killed two birds with one stone for me.

"My best friend is black"

"My best friend is gay"


But she is not poor though :( . So now I need to find someone who is poor.

DING! DING! DING! DING! She hit the nail on the head!
Honeychile, do you know that I think you are awesome? :D

I really want to see the movie "Something New". I will probably buy it when it comes out on DVD and watch it with Mr. 1228.

My bio sister and I have had this conversation before. She says she could never date anyone outside her race. Does that make her (or anyone else who has said this) a racist? Hardly. Does it make them close minded? Good question :)

I have NO issues about dating or marrying outside my race. Been there, done that, have the bling to prove it. Mr. 1228 was NOT the first time I have dated outside my race. First time I dated/married outside my nationality (those damned Canadians!) ;)


If someone had a problem with it, it was THEIR problem, not mine.

Back to the question:

If someone says that they don't want to date outside of their race, does it make them close minded? Not racist, but close minded for not expanding horizons...

I think that it makes them narrow or 'intolerant' on precisely the level that they're operating on - for instance, someone earlier posted they were not intolerant for not dating felons, when the reality is that this behavior (not tolerating a felony record in a potential mate) is pretty much the definition of 'intolerant' if you remove the racial connotations from the word.

There are reasons other than racism to prefer a mate from a certian group. For instance, I could see how someone who is black might prefer to marry someone who has had a similar experience as they have growing up - and may prefer to raise their children in a household where both parents understand what it means to be black. Being white, I understand that I can't really provide that perspective, and so if that is desired I'm obviously out of the running.

The same situations have been occurring among some religious populations for a long time - I'm thinking specifically Catholic and Jewish communities, but I'm sure there are others. This just means they'd prefer someone inside their particular group, with a shared experience or belief system . . . I could imagine doing the same for a cultural or ethnic background.

This really doesn't equate to 'closed mindedness' on any level that really matters, although it may inexplicably narrow the potential for happiness by attempting to ensure a certain common ground with a partner.

On the other hand, I don't find that simply dating someone from another race indicates a lack of prejudice or racism, just as Rudey has stated.

The B-side...
 

So, I use to live in San Diego, California... Folks called it "white boy heaven" because all the girls were blonde haired and blue eyed... And the black men chased after the same women and got them...

So I don't even have to see "Something New..." because I probably actually lived it.

My girlfriends and I would call it "crossing the street"... On the lines of "sometimes you've gotta cross the street..." Black men failed to speak to us. We, the powerhouse sistahs would have Master's, Doctorate and professional degrees in topics that would blow the minds of most of our contemporaries. Some of us were corporate executives and partners in law firms. Some us were doing the million dollar deals on a daily basis. And we looked exceptionally good--like supermodel status. But if we needed a date, why take Bobo-the-clown-gangsta-rapper with the gold grillz who has a criminal record to a black tie event put on by the Mayor or Governor? And our folks are highly respected in the community, so what do we look like with Bobo?

Most of our elders, especially the women wondered what was wrong with us? Why couldn't we find a good man to marry? Then we could go down the list and say there are none available--unless we decided to "cross the street"...

Now, that was not the easiest thing to do in the world. I think it was fear in most guys eyes. Most men in general do NOT like the "hard sell" to the friends and family--especially if they don't come from a significant background. Many powerhouse sistahs are worked to get were they were from strong support from their families who had high expectations and probably treated them like princesses because they are successfull. Their families expect a "prince"... But as you know statistics, most Black men cannot compare for many reasons, some of it due to institutionalized racism--i.e. the fact a lot of them are caught up in the judicial system, etc, (i.e. Claude Allen)... But there's another part to it... I am unsure what it is now that I am married... Asked me a few years ago and I could tell you what I've endured...

An powerhouse sistah, which I think Sanaa Lathan's character played, is the one that men from other races are not suppose to touch--so goes the stereotype... When I was single, the minute man from another race came upto me or my friends at a bar or a club, all the Black men would bum-rush the guy, force them to leave making him very nervous. I remember dancing with a rather attractive guy who was caucasian and was going to talk to him after the song was done, but the Black men told him he cannot speak to me--I was off-limits... Meanwhile, they can talk to all the caucasian girls they want, leaving me and my girlfriends in the lurch... Talk about double standards...

So, do I think its racist for a caucasian guy to not want to try to date a woman outside of his ethnic purview? Well Cashmoney was blunt about it, he will only seriously date and marry blonde-haired, blue-eyed women because he wants his children to look like that... Would I call him a racist because of it? No. An idiot? Yes, but a racist--that's what he wants...

But you have to see it from the sistah's side, too... Some sistah's are fearful moreso...

I'm white, and I date an Asian guy. I love him and all, I'm just a little worried that if we have kids, they might be short. Does that make me racist against short people? Oh sorry, I mean vertically challenged people? :p

This is true w/ the Mr. and myself.

I only date Scandinavian women that weigh 100lbs and are 6 feet tall at least.

-Rudey
--We yodel together.

hell, you could roll with me and my 2 friends (edited b/c i deleted their names). you get a package deal--a gay white guy, a fat, straight, kinda poor black woman, and a skinny closeted bisexual chinese guy.

that plus the GF of yours, you got the united colors of benetton right there!

(jokey joke cause i dont really have much to add...)

Well, I completely disagree with you.......and I would be really pissed if someone told me that I was prejudiced for only dating white girls. I don't really have any black friends...does that make me a racist? No.

RIF...
 

Perhaps you didn't read this thread or my post clearly enough. I posted (re: 'To answer the OP') to answer the intended question which was:

Your not having any Black friends is besides the point. Of course, if you don't have any Black friends, it's because you don't have any Black friends, for whatever reason.

However--in the context of what was asked and then answered in my post---A REFUSAL to date a hypothetical Black/other race friend on grounds of their race IS prejudice, which--for your information--is defined as a "(1) preconceived judgment or opinion (2) an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics", according to Merriam Webster Online Dictionary.

Or basically stated, to refuse to date someone of another race is an active gesture of rejection/reluctance to act based on a notion without basis of knowledge.

enigma_AKA

i see you, enigma_AKA! get 'im!