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Beatz 03-12-2006 01:15 AM

Ridiculous Sorority National Rules
 
So a few of the sororities at my school had their national consultants come up for their yearly visit. I was talking to a few of the girls each time the consultants came up, and the things I was told they couldn't do was pretty outrageous.

"You can't come over at all....our national rules say that no boys are allowed in our rooms"

"You can't come over after 10:00...our national rules say we can't have boys over after that time."

And a few other things as well. All I have to say is WTF nationals??? This is college, not high school! If I want to go hang out with my friends that just happen to be girls, that just happen to be greeks, then I should damn well be able to! As for the late night thing, I am in a group project with one of the girls that has a curfew for boys set by her national. What if we had to stay up **gasp** past 10:00??? Oh noes!!! :rolleyes:

Seriously, if anyone on this forum has any ties to a national, why are these dumb rules put into place? And why are they expected to be followed? You're dealing with people ages 18-22, and these rules just seem out of hand.

Kevin 03-12-2006 01:23 AM

These rules are put into place for the protection of the organizations and their members. I can see where it may look a little paternalistic, but whatever. When someone moves into the house, they know the rules associated with that residential decision.

I can't see where I'd be concerned about this anyhow. If I didn't have my own place where a young lady and I could spend some quality time, that would be the chief of my concerns.

These types of rules are actually very attractive to many young women and their parents.

honeychile 03-12-2006 02:03 AM

Legalities, legalities, legalities.

If someone's little girl gets pregnant at 10:01 in the sorority house, it's a lawsuit.

If someone's little girl is hurt by anyone outside of the sorority - or even IN the sorority after hours, it's a lawsuit.

If someone's little girl overhears her roomie doing something "out of line" after hours, it's a lawsuit.


Y'all say that the women involved are adults, being 18-22, but according to their parents, they are most certainly NOT adults, NOT capable of making mature decisions, and NOT anything but a perfect angel.

The entire reason sorority and fraternity expenses have quadrupled in the past 20 years is because of insurance and yes, legalities.

aephi alum 03-12-2006 10:17 AM

The rules are there for the protection of the sorority and its members. Most NPC sororities also prohibit residents from keeping alcohol in the house, even if they're of age.

It's not just sororities. Some dorms have similar rules about guests. The one all-female dorm at my school requires all visitors to sign in and be escorted by a resident. Wellesley had (and I believe still has) the "horizontal-vertical" rule: If you have a guest in your dorm, male or female, you must be on the same floor as your guest.

Like honeychile said, these 18-22 year olds are legally adults, but their parents still view them (especially daughters) as small children in need of protection.

On the one hand, you can say, "if you don't like the rules, don't live in the house/dorm". At some schools, that's an option; off-campus housing is readily available, and GLOs don't require members to live in. On the other hand, some chapters do have a residency requirement because they have to keep their houses full, and some schools do require all undergrads or all freshmen to live on campus. So not liking the rules can mean not going greek.

jubilance1922 03-12-2006 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by aephi alum

It's not just sororities. Some dorms have similar rules about guests. The one all-female dorm at my school requires all visitors to sign in and be escorted by a resident. Wellesley had (and I believe still has) the "horizontal-vertical" rule: If you have a guest in your dorm, male or female, you must be on the same floor as your guest.


That must suck. My dorm didn't have any rules like that, except when I lived in a freshman dorm, and the only rule was that it was substance-free (no alcohol or illegal drugs).

PhoenixAzul 03-12-2006 10:41 AM

OC is slowly relaxing its dorm rules. We went from very strict male only/ female only dorms to 1 mixed dorm (male wing/female wing) to 2 mixed dorms (male floor/female floor) to 3 mixed dorms (male floor/female floor). Then they added the Commons Apartments, where it was men and women living side by side, but not mixed within apartments. The newest (and desperately needed!) dorm will be 2 person suites sharing bathrooms with people next door. Essentially, a quad dorm, divided in 2 by a bathroom. But it will be men/women in the same hall, an OC first.

But visitation hours are still till midnight on weekdays during regular term, and till 2 on weekends. During finals, visitation hours are curtailed till 10 and 12 respectively. Even if it is a male who lives in the same building. Visitation hours in the lobby are 24 hours, but there is to be no sleeping in the lobby. All visitors must be escorted, whether on a floor of the same sex or not.

In our fraternity/sorority houses, the house manager makes and sets the rules, or they are set through by-laws. OC as well as Panhel and TD guidelines dictate dry housing for our girls. As far as opposite sex guidelines...they're pretty relaxed. Several sisters have had male family members stay on the sleeper sofa during their college visits. It's generally a "ask the house manager and let all house members know" type of situation.

On the visitation hours thing...I can see where OC is coming from. The year before I came to OC, a guy broke into our dorm and watched a girl in the shower. There've been peeping incidents on campus every year I've been there. There was also an attempted sexual assault in one of the dorms last year (by someone who was not an OC student). OC is even in a VERY quiet suburb, and these things still happen. It sucks that we couldn't even go down to the boys floor to ask questions on assignments, but that's how it worked.

Senusret I 03-12-2006 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jubilance1922
That must suck. My dorm didn't have any rules like that, except when I lived in a freshman dorm, and the only rule was that it was substance-free (no alcohol or illegal drugs).
The only rule I can remember in my residence hall was "no cohabitation"..... someone of the opposite gender couldn't spend the night with you. But NOBODY enforced it. Even the RAs had their girlfriends or boyfriends practically living there.

alum 03-12-2006 11:51 AM

AT CMU back in the pre-litigation days, the majority of dorms were coed and none of the dorms had visitation or alcohol (other than being 21) restrictions. Most dorms had 2 rooms sharing one bathroom accessible only through the dorm rooms. So the floor was coed but not the bathrooms. The women's fraternity houses did enforce the rules set by their respective Nationals.

At West Point, barracks are coed but they do have separate bathrooms for male and female cadets. Nobody except authorized personnel are allowed in the barracks. Dates of the cadets usually stayed in the Hotel Thayer on post in the "dormitory wing", 4 girls to a room. There were signs posted all over saying "No Cadets Allowed Past This Point."

Tom Earp 03-12-2006 01:01 PM

Desnt it seem in todays Moral climate, that there Must Be Regulations in place for protection of all concerned?

A branch of the US Govt. even issued warnings for women going on Spring Breaks. Dont drink to Much and dont have a lot of sex.

Thank You My Govt!;)

LPIDelta 03-12-2006 01:43 PM

Can anyone say Natalie Holloway?

It's sad that its come to that but yes, sometimes people need to be told how to protect themselves.

honeychile 03-12-2006 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Heather17
Can anyone say Natalie Holloway?

It's sad that its come to that but yes, sometimes people need to be told how to protect themselves.

Amen!

rhochi2002 03-12-2006 02:53 PM

I think those rules are a good thing. My campus recently started to allow 24 hour visitation on the weekends. I never could live in the dorms because of all the coming and going. The visitation policy was never really enforced unless there was a overzealous RA. I don't know how people could get any work done in those environments. The campus recentlly introduced Leadership dorms and academic dorms where the noise level would be lower.
But that aside, 18 year olds in college for the first time can make immature decisions, especially since many are away from their parents for the first time.
As for sorority houses, the rules are there for a reason. Although they are a a throw back from "the old days" The rules decrease the sororities liablity. Also Do you really want to have a guy in the bed rooms when people are trying to sleep, ect. This rule limits roommates ablility to be inconsiderate to each other. I have heard of girls that practically live in their boyfriend's fraternity house, (yuck) so I imagine that the reverse could happen without the rules being in place.

Sister Havana 03-12-2006 03:39 PM

Many years ago, IU had what was called "women's hours." All female students had to be back in their dorms or sorority houses by 11pm on weeknights, 1am weekends. (there were no such rules for men) Some of the older dorms that used to be all-female still have doorbells (women who missed curfew were locked out and had to ring the doorbell to get into the dorm, letting everyone know she had missed curfew) It was only in the 70s that coed dorms started becoming more common. This was just one generation ago! Even when I was in school, in the early-mid 90s, many dorm floors still had limited visitation hours, and there were still one male dorm floor and one female dorm floor with closed visitation - no one of the opposite sex allowed on the floor, period, no matter who it was.

At IU, most of the sorority houses have cold dorm sleeping arrangements (rather than individual sleeping rooms) - I can imagine if guys were to sleep there it would be way awkward!

sugar and spice 03-12-2006 06:08 PM

I agree that they're ridiculous. There's not anything that can happen at 10:01 that can't happen at 9:59, or 4 pm for that matter. Honestly, I think the argument that it's to promote safety is b.s., because when you don't allow girls to have overnight guests in a sorority house, this doesn't stop them from spending the night with boys -- it just moves it to another, less secure environment like a fraternity house or a random apartment.

Debates on this website have made it clear that most people here don't agree with me, though. ;)

KSUViolet06 03-12-2006 06:10 PM

It's one of those rules that was put into place back when national sorority officers really thought that part of keeping women safe was keeping men out past a certain hour. We all have those archaic rules that are still around and we unfortunately still have to follow them.

honeychile 03-12-2006 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sugar and spice
I agree that they're ridiculous. There's not anything that can happen at 10:01 that can't happen at 9:59, or 4 pm for that matter. Honestly, I think the argument that it's to promote safety is b.s., because when you don't allow girls to have overnight guests in a sorority house, this doesn't stop them from spending the night with boys -- it just moves it to another, less secure environment like a fraternity house or a random apartment.

Debates on this website have made it clear that most people here don't agree with me, though. ;)

I completely agree with you. Unfortunately, it just takes one irate parent with an attorney to lay down the law (no pun intended!).

I'd rather see a guy in a sorority house when the chips are down, than see dozens of sisters making "the walk of shame."


ETA: In my own chapter, dues has skyrocketed by 400% a month, due mostly to what insurance carriers demand. They can demand the big bucks because of the parents who would rather sue than even consider that their little Suzy may have been running amok.

Tom Earp 03-12-2006 06:30 PM

I Love You! Get Here quick for Dinner!:D

You are right On Tho!!!

Lay Down The Law, oops We know who ahve been around a while Others dont!:(

Rudey 03-12-2006 06:31 PM

What does Natalie Holloway have to do with this?

-Rudey

SmartBlondeGPhB 03-12-2006 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
What does Natalie Holloway have to do with this?

-Rudey

That was my thought too......

honeychile 03-12-2006 07:37 PM

I think they were using Natalee Holloway as an example of someone who had too much to drink, didn't stay with her friends, and is now missing - much like some sorority women who have too much to drink, don't stay with their sisters/friends, and end up in some sort of troubles.

At least, that's what I assumed.

LPIDelta 03-12-2006 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by honeychile
I think they were using Natalee Holloway as an example of someone who had too much to drink, didn't stay with her friends, and is now missing - much like some sorority women who have too much to drink, don't stay with their sisters/friends, and end up in some sort of troubles.

At least, that's what I assumed.

Yes--that is what I meant in response to the comment on the gov't issuing warnings.

I believe the reason we have visitation hours has more to do with making ALL the people living in the houses comfortable. Some people like to go to bed early etc. Unfortunately, some people need rules in order to respect other people's space/privacy etc.

CanadianZete 03-12-2006 10:46 PM

What I find weird is that some Sororities take orders from a headquarters in the US that gives a single set of rules for all chapters despite where they are. Being in Canada it makes things more difficult for these groups. The legal age is 18 or 19 here depending on the province not 21 like in the US, meaning almost all of the girls if not all of them are of legal age in Canada. Meaning they are adults and thier parents have nothing to do with them and their college lives. They are all responsible for themselves but still must listen to horrible rules set by thier headquarters like, no boys past 10:00 etc.

honeychile 03-12-2006 11:15 PM

What part of "legalities" and "insurance" was so hard for you to understand?

I'm an alumna, and frankly, we had much more freedom than there is now. But then we go back to the reasons why - legalities and insurance. Check with your Treasurer, and I'll bet that he'll shock you with how much your house has to pay out in insurance. It might be under liability, or housing, but the vast majority of your dues go out to insurance of some sort.

adpiucf 03-12-2006 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CanadianZete
What I find weird is that some Sororities take orders from a headquarters in the US that gives a single set of rules for all chapters despite where they are. Being in Canada it makes things more difficult for these groups. The legal age is 18 or 19 here depending on the province not 21 like in the US, meaning almost all of the girls if not all of them are of legal age in Canada. Meaning they are adults and thier parents have nothing to do with them and their college lives. They are all responsible for themselves but still must listen to horrible rules set by thier headquarters like, no boys past 10:00 etc.
There's a very simple solution for this. If you don't like the house rules, don't live in the house. For some chapters, this may mean not being able to hold office or not being able to be a member at all, as some sorority chapters enforce a live-in requirement. The choice is up to the individual.

As for our Canadian chapters, the risk management problems are less. I am able to see that the legal drinking in age in Canada has a lot to do with this.

That said, a sorority is governed by a set of rules. The rules aren't going anywhere. If someone doesn't like them, don't join a sorority. And if you are not a member of a sorority and you're complaining about this, pick another topic. Nothing is changing. These rules are in place to protect the organization and its members from the potential acts of an unfortunate few.

One thing I have learned from being a member of a sorority: all of our actions have consquences-- some are good and some are not good. When one person succeeds, the sorority succeeds. When someone fails, we all feel the loss. This is just as true with any organization-- academic, non-profit, corporate environment --you name it.

blueangel 03-13-2006 12:58 AM

Having lived in both a "female only" dorm (University of Florida) and a "co-ed dorm" (San Jose State) where guys and girls live right next to each other in separate rooms-- I have to say I much prefered the female only dorms.

I found that in the all female dorms, the girls "bonded" together much better. It was a much more relaxed atmousphere, and it was kind of a dorm sorority. You knew there were no males allowed after a certain time, so you could walk the halls, go to the kitchen or showers wearing your bunny slippers and your night shirt.

In the co-ed dorms, the girls were putting on their makeup just to go to the bathroom! It was also a drag when your roomie had an overnight guest in the co-ed dorms.

By no means am I a prude... I crew on tall ships for a hobby, and on most ships, the men and women crew all sleep in one room. Infact, you may be on the middle bunk and have a man in the bunk above you and below you. In that case though, you're so darned tired from working hard all day (or night) that all you care about is hitting the rack and getting some sleep!

PiKA2001 03-13-2006 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by blueangel

By no means am I a prude... I crew on tall ships for a hobby, and on most ships, the men and women crew all sleep in one room. Infact, you may be on the middle bunk and have a man in the bunk above you and below you. In that case though, you're so darned tired from working hard all day (or night) that all you care about is hitting the rack and getting some sleep!

I don't know how you do it. I'm not sure about tall ships but I know the typical size of crew quarters on most yachts are about the size of my closet.

honeychile 03-13-2006 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PiKA2001
I don't know how you do it. I'm not sure about tall ships but I know the typical size of crew quarters on most yachts are about the size of my closet.
My single in college was 7'x10' - the chest of drawers had to be on an angle because of the radiator, and a sink took up any room for a chair. My darling daddy built some shelves in it for me :) and I put my bed up on bricks so I could store things under the bed! The closet was outside of the room.

It had been a maid's room in the 1930's.

Taualumna 03-13-2006 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CanadianZete
What I find weird is that some Sororities take orders from a headquarters in the US that gives a single set of rules for all chapters despite where they are. Being in Canada it makes things more difficult for these groups. The legal age is 18 or 19 here depending on the province not 21 like in the US, meaning almost all of the girls if not all of them are of legal age in Canada. Meaning they are adults and thier parents have nothing to do with them and their college lives. They are all responsible for themselves but still must listen to horrible rules set by thier headquarters like, no boys past 10:00 etc.
Just because a young person is old enough to drink doesn't mean that Mom and Dad will consider them an adult. For example, my parents didn't really like the idea of me living on my own after first year (not even with roommates. They wanted me to live in a building where someone was considered "responsible," so they would have LOVED NPC GLO rules) I guess my parents were ahead of their time, because I was one of the first non-business people to own a cell phone (1998). In any case, these days, parents have more control over their kids' lives if they live close enough to make day trips.

ETA: Now that my friends and I have finished school, many of those who've moved back home agree with me that they still have to live under some rules...Some still have a "curfew" (and must call home if I stay out past a certain time), others might have to spend x number of hours with the family, etc, etc...we're all in our mid 20s.

Denise_DPhiE 03-13-2006 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Heather17
I believe the reason we have visitation hours has more to do with making ALL the people living in the houses comfortable. Some people like to go to bed early etc. Unfortunately, some people need rules in order to respect other people's space/privacy etc.
Amen sista! IF I had lived in a sorority house in college, I would have enjoyed taking off my makeup, putting my hair up in a clip and putting on a face mask and know no boys would be around at that hour.

My freshman year I lived in a triple. Three beds built bunkbed style above the desk and dresser. One morning I wok up to my roommate having sex with her boyfriend 10 feet away. Yuck!

Denise

33girl 03-13-2006 10:29 AM

Of course, it all depends on what your "house" is like.

If you live in a huge sorority house that is more like a dorm, with 50+ people in it, I can understand having visitation rules and things like that. Cause it basically is a dorm, only nicer and with just sisters in it - and the sorority is probably big enough that the sisters don't all know each other that well.

But we have/had, for the most part, houses that only hold around 15 people...and that are OFF campus...to expect people in that situation to behave like they're still living in a dorm, have "curfews" and such, is asinine.

KSigkid 03-13-2006 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jubilance1922
That must suck. My dorm didn't have any rules like that, except when I lived in a freshman dorm, and the only rule was that it was substance-free (no alcohol or illegal drugs).
Boston U. had similar rules. There were very strict guest rules (if the person didn't live in the dorm they had to be out by midnight), and it took a few days to clear any out-of-town guests. If you forgot your ID, there was a chance you couldn't get back into your dorm that night.

DeltAlum 03-13-2006 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Havana
Many years ago, IU had what was called "women's hours." All female students had to be back in their dorms or sorority houses by 11pm on weeknights, 1am weekends. (there were no such rules for men) Some of the older dorms that used to be all-female still have doorbells (women who missed curfew were locked out and had to ring the doorbell to get into the dorm, letting everyone know she had missed curfew) It was only in the 70s that coed dorms started becoming more common. This was just one generation ago! Even when I was in school, in the early-mid 90s, many dorm floors still had limited visitation hours, and there were still one male dorm floor and one female dorm floor with closed visitation - no one of the opposite sex allowed on the floor, period, no matter who it was.
Acutally, just about every university had those rules.

It was all a part of "In Loco Parentis."

Another rule (as silly as it sounds in print) was that on certain "visitation" times, if members of the opposite sex were in a dorm room, each had to have at least one foot on the floor.

KSUViolet06 03-13-2006 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Denise_DPhiE
Amen sista! IF I had lived in a sorority house in college, I would have enjoyed taking off my makeup, putting my hair up in a clip and putting on a face mask and know no boys would be around at that hour.
Denise

It's not JUST about that, but also, our bathrooms are at the end of each wing, meaning you get out of the shower and have to walk to your room in a towel/bathrobe. It'd be just lovely to run into a guy on the way.

honeychile 03-13-2006 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Denise_DPhiE
Amen sista! IF I had lived in a sorority house in college, I would have enjoyed taking off my makeup, putting my hair up in a clip and putting on a face mask and know no boys would be around at that hour.

Denise

(edited)

When I was in school, WE made our sorority suite women only from 11pm to 6am during Finals. From there, we'd invite all of the other sorority women up for an exactly one hour study break (no men allowed) every night.

It made for good Panhellenic spirit!

PhoenixAzul 03-13-2006 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by honeychile
(edited)

When I was in school, WE made our sorority suite women only from 11pm to 6am during Finals. From there, we'd invite all of the other sorority women up for an exactly one hour study break (no men allowed) every night.

It made for good Panhellenic spirit!

i like this idea!!! Different campus groups sponsor study breaks around finals time (I think A Phi A is doing it tonight, actually), its always nice to see a high greek turnout. The greek 1:30 am doughnut runs are quite good as well.

Rudey 03-13-2006 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by honeychile
I think they were using Natalee Holloway as an example of someone who had too much to drink, didn't stay with her friends, and is now missing - much like some sorority women who have too much to drink, don't stay with their sisters/friends, and end up in some sort of troubles.

At least, that's what I assumed.

Yes that Natalee didn't know what she was doing.

She was an innocent lamb.

She only drank like a pro and a video of her blowing a Dutch dude in Aruba is widely available on uselessjunk.com - such an innocent rose.

-Rudey
--Whether or not she knew better, she's no longer here...strange how that works isn't it?

Rudey 03-13-2006 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blueangel
Let me see if I can get this to work. Here is what the bunks look like on the STS Sir Winston Churchill. You'll see tables there too (40 crewmember ate and slept in this room.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ch/swcrack.jpg[/IMG]

and just for kicks... here is a picture I took from on top of the yards

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...h/File0067.jpg[/IMG]

Post more pictures of the boat. It looks hot.

-Rudey

valkyrie 03-13-2006 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sugar and spice
I agree that they're ridiculous. There's not anything that can happen at 10:01 that can't happen at 9:59, or 4 pm for that matter. Honestly, I think the argument that it's to promote safety is b.s., because when you don't allow girls to have overnight guests in a sorority house, this doesn't stop them from spending the night with boys -- it just moves it to another, less secure environment like a fraternity house or a random apartment.

Debates on this website have made it clear that most people here don't agree with me, though. ;)

I agree with you. ;)

The fact that parents would sue anybody if their adult children screw up is outrageous.

honeychile 03-13-2006 01:10 PM

If I may paraphrase your signature, valkyrie, I find such parents insufferable! What really angers me is that it doesn't stop them from doing it - so the whole greek system AND dorms suffer because of it.


Phoenix Azul - we did that each Finals. It started out as just a "hey, stop up at 11 for coffee or cocoa, if you need a study break," and became a major event. It's one of my best memories of college! Especially a certain night that got a little out of control... :D

ETA: We made the break women only, because most of us were in abbreviated clothing or night clothes, etc.

SmartBlondeGPhB 03-13-2006 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by valkyrie
I agree with you. ;)

The fact that parents would sue anybody if their adult children screw up is outrageous.

Don't assume they are all technically adults. I was only 17 when I started college, not legally an adult.

Our rules were no guys upstairs after 10:00 (might be later on weekends).


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