Event T-shirts with Letters on Pledges?
 

I'm interested in various GLO's policies on Letters on Pledges. As far as I can tell, most pledging GLOs would severely discourage a pledge from wearing a sweatshirt with the greek letters across as the only thing on it.

At the other end of the scale, some GLOs have the greek letters for the GLO on the pledge pin, so that is obviously OK.

The sort of middle ground that I'm wondering is the following...

1)Your Fraternity or Sorority has participated in a Service Project with other GLOs (and other campus orgs) to raise money for the Pediatric Aids foundation. Your pledges were encouraged to participate and did so willingly. On the day of the event, the group running the event passes out T-shirts. On that T-shirt is the name of *all* of the groups that are participating with the GLO's names including yours *in greek letters* (note each is about an inch high). Can your pledges put the t-shirts on while they do the event (like everyone is supposed to) or would they have to save the t-shirts until after initiation?

2) The chapters of your fraternity or sorority have a state-wide get together (pledges included). Part what they get is an event T-shirt that has the fraternity or sorority in Greek Letters as part of the theme printed on the shirt "ZHD Florida get-together 2006" or something similar (instead of ZHD, the greek letters), again, do the pledges have to wait?




Randy

My understanding of Omega Phi Alpha policy is that no, they would not be allowed to wear either shirt until after initiation. They can have things with the letters on them (i.e., their pledge books), but they cannot wear them.

We no longer have pledges, instead we have Alpha members. Being members, they may wear letters. Once initiated, an Alpha becomes a Delta member, and only initiated members may wear or own items bearing the Crest.

Alpha Gamma Delta allows her new members (the NPC doesn't call em pledges anymore) to wear letters prior to Initiation. They are not allowed to wear the Badge or the Crest.

There will always be the debate of whether the new members should be allowed vs. not allowed to wear letters before Initiation. I can see the good points on both sides, so I don't want to get into that debate. No sense beating a dead horse.

My issue is with the chapters who overlook their HQ's policy, and make and enforce their own rules.

If your HQ says NMs are allowed to wear letters, then wear them. If not, then don't let the NMs wear them. Simple.

Delta Zeta is the same way. In addition to having their own letter shirts made (if they so choose), new members are permitted to wear any social/fundraiser/philanthropy/etc. t-shirts that have DZ letters on them.

ZTA New Members may wear letters, but not the crest or other insignia.

[hijack]

How are you Randy? Long time no see!

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I agree. This was a hard concept for the chapter I advise... But they get it now. ;)

OK, still hanging out over at the Alpha Phi Omega board.

Didn't realize the NPC had gotten rid of the term Pledge like the NPHC. When was this?

Kappa Alpha Theta does not allow her new members to wear any letters even if they are small, and mixed in with other things. They are only allowed to wear garments with Theta spelled out in english. They are also not allowed to wear our crest or other insignia.

Re: Event T-shirts with Letters on Pledges?
 

If a man accepts a bid from Sigma Chi Fraternity, from that point on he is considered a Sigma Chi pledge and may wear shirts, etc., with the words "Sigma Chi" or "Sigs" but not the Greek letters Sigma Chi. This is a national regulation.

No letters, however, the Norman Shield is depleted on the pledge pin. As such, pledges may wear apparel with the Norman Shield on it as well.

Ideally, the group running the event would contact all the groups participating to inquire how they would like to be represented on the tee-shirt. If that wasn't the case, and letters were used, then my guess is that while the letters shouldn't be worn by the pledges (see above), they might be allowed to wear the event shirt at/for that particular event. It would depend on the campus culture and the specific chapter. And frankly, IHQ has more important business to deal with than a specific event tee-shirt. As such, I doubt there would be any hoopla over allowing it from IHQ.

Since Sigma Chi Fraternity's policy is that pledges do not wear letters, if there was a state-wide get together that included pledges, then I would venture to guess that the event tee-shirt would have the name *Sigma Chi* spelled out so that all may wear it.

As is the case with several other organizations I've read about here, when I pledged I could wear the letters, but not the crest because until initiation you don't understand the symbolism.

I'm pretty sure it remains that way.

I don't understand this reasoning, because before initiation, you don't know what the letters mean -- so why is it okay to wear letters you don't know the meaning of but not the crest whose symbolism you don't yet understand?

(Not to say that I care about pledges or new members or whatever we're calling them today wearing letters -- just to point out that I don't get it.)

Beat's me, but them's the rules.

That is a really great question. I'm going to have to ask someone this weekend at our District Leadership Workshop! (I'm not saying that our reasoning behind "only initiated wear the crest" has to do with understanding the symbolism, I don't know the 'why' just that it is our rules. Since the letters' meaning aren't known to non-initiated women, why is that ok? - that has me puzzled :confused: )

Right -- and if it's "hazing" or whatever you'd call it to NOT allow new members/pledges to wear letters (I've heard this before), isn't it also "hazing" to not allow them to wear the crest?

I mean, I know the rule exists and I think many organizations say letters=okay and crest=/= okay -- but that makes no sense.

I think there are positive benefits associated having new members wearing the letters-- it promotes your group to the outside world and gives them a sense that they belong-- which translates to personal pride and investment in the group, wanting to be involved and learn the ways of the group.

Members are educated on the importance of respect for the letters and public perception of those who wear the letters.

I'm not jumping on any org or person who thinks differently-- that's their belief. If a group is going against what their HQ has decided, I agree-- they should follow the inter/national protocol.

But from a PR and acclimation perspective it makes sense. And new members can be given an "open meaning" for the letters-- the same as you give them an open motto.

ADPi's open motto "We Live For Each Other"-- great promotion of our sisterhood! :) My chapter tells non members and new members that the letters stand thus:
Alpha: the first letter of the greek alphabet. We were the first secret society for collegiate women

Delta: Like a river delta, we are ever flowing, growing and changing.

Pi: This is also a mathematical symbol for an infinite number. ADPi is eternal.

Based on the line of reasoning that a new member shouldn't wear letters until they know what they mean, does this mean they should be able to call themselves a new member at all or participate in any activities with the sorority?

ETA: I had a long-winded example in another context, and then realized "Who cares?"

When I was a pledge (they still called us pledges back then), I was a completely clueless pledge. I didn't know that 'A' 'G' and 'D' (in addition to other Alpha Gam symbols) had a secret meaning.

We had Pledge Ceremonies and such, but none really indicated what was yet to come in Initiation.

We didn't have GreekChat back then, so I didn't really know the whole extent of Ritual. :)

I can imagine it being that way for other NMs....they wear letters not knowing the meaning, but at the same time THEY DON'T KNOW there's another meaning. :p

Hm, that actually makes sense. :)

Alpha Epsilon Phi does not allow anyone to wear the letters, other than initiated sisters. New members can wear items that say "AEPhi" or "Alpha Epsilon Phi", but not the Greek letters. So the new members wouldn't be allowed to wear the event t-shirts. Neither should anyone else - although you can't exactly go up to people and say, "Hey, you're not an AEPhi, hand over the shirt!" :p I could see a chapter making a big stink after the fact, though; the event planners should contact each group ahead of time, and ask if they can use that group's letters.

At Auburn, the Greek Week shirts had the letters of all the fraternities and sororities on it. What would AEPhi do about that?

That happened at Tech. A shirt was made with all the sororities on it, including the NPHC sororities, without checking with them first. Its against protocol for non-members to wear our letters.

Goodness gracious -- this gets to be ridiculous! It's too cumbersome. If I was in charge of Greek Week -- I'd just announce we're putting everyone's letters on the shirts. (PERIOD) Wear them if you like!

We'd request that they use "AEPhi" instead of the Greek letters. "AEPhi" is still reasonably compact and wouldn't look too out of place among a bunch of Greek letters. If they refused, and insisted on using the Greek letters... we'd live with it. *shrug*

One year when I was an active, someone at Panhel goofed when designing the PNMs' name tags for formal recruitment. The name tags had the Greek letters of all five sororities across the bottom. We were less than thrilled, as were the Thetas, but it was too late to reprint all those name tags, so we dealt with it... no sense in getting upset. But the next year, the tags were redesigned.

But what about orgs that have protocols that say non-members can't wear their letters? You're willing to piss off an entire organization for the sake of your t-shirt?

No...for "our" T-shirt. I just think we're "majoring in the minors" here. Sure, Chi Omega used to have that tradition, but I doubt our entire organization would have been upset with 1" Greek letters on the back of a shirt. Geez.

I'm confused, first you say:

And then you say:
So this "everyone" that you used earlier, I'm assuming you mean every Greek org that's participating in Greek Week. I can tell you right now that if Sigma Gamma Rho was participating in Greek Week and our letters were on a shirt, the sorors on that campus and in the area would be upset, because its against our protocol. And it would probably end up on our members-only listservs and message board. I've never met a soror who DIDN'T hold their letters sacred and patrol where it went. Maybe you're sorority is different, but we hold our protocol in high esteem, and any violations would be important.

Just because your org wouldn't have been doesn't mean that if other orgs aren't the same way, they're somehow wrong to be upset ...

Yeah, I see, what you are saying. We don't allow our SAE pledges to wear the letters before initiation, but their pledge pins have Phi Alpha on it...so its kind of a double edge sword I guess.

No letters pre initiation for our new ladies. They can wear the letters typed out as words if they wish.

The only exception we've made is if we decide to create a uniform for a sporting event, philanthropy event or intramural and it had letters on it. Then new members can wear that if they are participating in the event/sport/team etc.

The joys of being in a local.

We have the same policy

I think it's a ridiculous arguement, one about splitting hairs and such, particularly the rule about your letters on other chapters' shirts.

The issue as I see it has two key items. 1) Non-initates (whether pledges or non-members) don't know what the letters mean, and so there is no "respect" and 2) Your worried about people doing things wearing your letters that might reflect poorly on your organization.

• If your letters are on a Greek Week shirt, such that is put out by the Office of Greek Affairs, then everyone's letters are out there and by wearing that shirt, you're representing your Greek community. End of story, it doesn't matter that your letters are on there, and people don't know what they mean, but you know what, they don't know what the other 10, 15, 30 other sets of letters mean either. What makes your organization so much more special.
  
• If it's because the pledges who will likely become full members don't know the significance, you can't tell me there aren't other things that you can restrict usage of. Some people have already mentioned crests and insignias. My own chapter bans the use of "Wooglin" and "-kai-" by pledges and they aren't allowed into our chapter room as a sort of deference to the active members. Let them have the letters, so that when they go out and do good things, people can recognize them. That's the best publicity you can get.
  
• If you're worried about future members doing disgraceful things, then you need to look at who you're pledging, and what your pledge education program is teaching them. One of the first things should be don't do anything stupid with letters on. AND EXPLAIN TO THEM WHY!!! This whole "you don't understand" BS is not legitimate and completely arbitrary b/c within months they will know.
  
  Tell them that they are representing not only themselves, but also the chapter AND the larger organization as a whole. The reputation that they wish to build for themselves is now tied to the actions of others who bear the name of your org. and any sort of action (whether it's a drunk driver in another state, or their big bro/big sis) is going to reflect on them whehter they like it or not. That is a more legitimate reason and one that serves to bring them in to the idea that the chapter is only part of a bigger whole. And it is a lesson that remains important throughout their lifetime, not just when they find out the meaning. This is one way to battle the alumni apathy that so many complain about.

Really in the grand scheme of things this is piddly. We should be worried far more about many other things than this.

That is My Kansas Dude!!!!!:)

You make a TON of sense with Your Post!:cool:

In LXA, New Associates can wear Letters, they cannot wear anything with The Coat of Arms. They can and must wear their New Associate Pin in proper attire.

The ones who seem to make the major thing about Letters are Sororitys, and Why, I have no clue? Maybe they are not proud enough to show the women they Associated.

We encourage our New Members to wear letters. Our letters are on the New Member pin so our Nationals is fine with it. The only thing that we have in my chapter is that we don't encourage NM to wear stitches because we want they Bigs to give them their first pair the day of initiation. They can wear letter screen printed or if it is spelled out its fine. As for the our crest only intiated members are allowed to wear it.

Thank you! I agree wholeheartedly!

Actually, some groups - like ASA & AST - do have an open motto that corresponds to the letters. This is why I've never seen anything wrong with our pledges wearing them.

However, I would never say that just because we do it that way, some other group who doesn't learn the meaning of the letters until initiation should do the same thing.

We had a new member, that right before initiation, I was talking to her on instant messenger. One of the ways we sign our emails or letters is "Xi Love" and she asked me "After I'm initiated tomorrow, can I say 'Xi Love' too?" and I told her "You could have always been saying it, but tomorrow you'll find out what it means." and she said "Xi Means something? Wow! That's crazy - I always thought it just meant 'Xi'."

Thank you, thats exactly what I was thinking whiile reading this thread. Greek Week shirts with everyone's letters show are PR for the Greek Community. One organization saying "no no, dont use our letters, use AEPhi instead (yeah, I'm picking on you, but only cause you used it as an example;)) is going to look retarded, and to some, even stuck up. (Hey - why does that one say AEPhi on it, but the rest are greek symbols?) I can understand not wanting one of your non-affiliated friends to wear a shirt with your letters, or something like that, but if its a school/greek spirit shirt? Get over it. The only people who should be wearing it are other Greeks, who understand the significance.

I do love it when good ol common sense prevails! :)

Ok, this is a serious comment to everyone, not just the poster I quoted. Folks love to come on GC and say "NPHC and multicultural greeks never participate in Greek Week with us! Why are you guys so anti-social?", yet you also say that you dont care what an org's protocol is, you're just gonna throw their letters on your shirt without permission. Seems disrespectful to me. If you KNOW groups who are participating don't want their letters on a shirt that non members will be wearing, why would you tell them to "just suck it up"?

What happened to respect for the way other orgs choose to run themselves? Or did that go out the window?