Old-School Greek terms wrong?
 

So one of our national consultants came to visit my chapter, and of course everyone who had an important position had to meet with him. I am the New Member Educator, and I gave a presentation about the program.

Within that program (a really sweet PowerPoint, I must say :cool: ) I used the term "pledging". I recieved a few angry eyes from my brothers during this, and afterwards I was told that I should've used the word "New Member Educational Period". I asked them why, and they responded by saying "pledging" or "pledges" brings up thoughts of hazing, and sounds very informal.

Another time, when I speak to my other Greek friends at school (we have nearly zero rivalries at my school in GL....GL is more like one big health club with letters). When the ask me what is new with me, I'll answer them that I am the "pledgemaster" (actually Associate Member Counselor to DX....but I am speaking to non-DXes so I don't want to confuse anyone). Pledgemaster is a common term here, and once I refered to myself as that in front of the Greek Advisor and a Dean. I was scolded afterwards by a few IFC and PHC members because once again, it brought up thoughts of hazing and was informal.

I ask now, what is REALLY wrong with these terms? I see nothing wrong with a "pledge". After all, they are pledging an allegiance to a certain group. We do not haze, and I do not feel that I need to be politcally correct around faculty members of my school.

So are these terms really bad, or should I get with the times more?

Just be aware of who you say things around.... "Discretion is key" so they say.

The problem with the "New School" Greek terms is that they aren't standardized across the board. Thirty years ago, NPHC, NPC, NIC....we could all say "rush" and "pledge" and all pretty much be on the same page.

It's not that there is anything wrong with the terms themselves, they've just come to represent "what's wrong" with the Greek system.

We have new members now but we also still have Formal Pledging, as in a ritual. We (every Greek) all take a plegde at that time. A new member can still say "I pledged ZTA," and everyone will understand what she means. You would never say "I New Membered ZTA." That's just creepy sounding.

You are right that we sometimes use terms that are more generic so that non-Greeks or Greeks from other campuses can understand us. Don't apologize for that. Some of this stuff is the new politically correct Greek system. It's taken away some of the uniqueness to our system, too. Anyone who's seen the sisters side of Formal Recruitment knows that Rush was the absolute best term for the process ever!

Re: Old-School Greek terms wrong?
 

No they are not. Many inter/national fraternities continue to use these terms *along with* newer terms. If you are concerned, it might be best to go with the campus norm when dealing on the campus level and the GLO terms when dealing on the inter/national level.

It's a shame that the old terms have negative connotations. Notice we still have a Rush Forum and through it one can access the Recruitment thread. PNMs, COBs, too many acronyms... I get enough of that as an Army wife!

I agree that there's not really anything wrong with the old terms, but there are plenty of people who disagree, so, with that in mind, I would general try to use the new-school terms in formal settings or around people like your national officers, your Greek life advisor, etc.

There was a debate between mods about this a few years ago and we came to a consensus that it wouldn't be fair to change the name of the Rush forum to reflect the new NPC terminology.

After all, there are only 26 of us. There are more organizations out there who still use "Rush".

well, while i am not anal about what words people use, i do think their is a very big difference between a pledge and a new member. the idea of a new member is that the person is not treated any differently than the members, other than that they can not do besides wearing the badge or other things that require initiation.

also, there is a huge difference in the history and connotation of the word 'rush' versus recruitment. Rush gives the idea that choosing a fraternity or sorority is something people go into quickly with no thought, whereas that may not be the case with most people as it is an important decision. the term rush came from the activity known as flag rush at many schools. it began in the 1880s and continued into the 1960's. At those times, the freshman were required to wear beanies and were hazed pretty well for just being 1st year students. Then at a point in the year, they would have the flag rush where a very small flag was securely nailed to the top of a well-greased pole with the blood-thirsty and abusive sophomores at the base of the pole. The freshman would try to get the flag by climbing the pole, while having rotten fruit, manure and other gross things thrown at them. If, as almost always happened, the freshmen failed to capture the flag, they were required to wear their freshman beanies until the end of the semester and had other restrictions placed on them, like they were not permitted out after a certain etc.

i think connotations are the biggest reason for changing of vocaulary. yes, we do take a pledge and pledge ourselves to our org during our rituals but i think the idea is that we don't have to make people prove themselves by being hazed or doing stupid things to get into an org.

I personally like the term new member. I actually wish groups that hazed would only use 'pledging' because that is what they are making their new members do. i also prefer recruitment because it more acurately describes the process of the fraternity or sorority activily searching out the best candidates for the chapter, not just going out and grabbing whoever.

i don't know, i don't really care what people say, I know what they mean and they really aren't hurting anything.

just my two sense. take it or leave it.

Actually, it comes from the fraternities and sororities "rushing" to the incoming trains to grab the best freshmen. Freshman hazing at schools isn't really the same thing as hazing within Greek orgs.

The new terms are ridiculous, IMO - mainly because very little has changed. Formal rush is not recruitment. You can put as negative of a connotation on new member or pearl or Phi or candidate or any other term as "pledge." We would be better off if we focused on what we actually do instead of getting so up in arms about what we say.

Beatz, there is nothing wrong with what you did. If anyone's at fault, it's the people who scolded you. Coercion does not make people happy about doing anything.

OK, I'm in Alpha Phi Omega and this is VERY offensive to me.

We have a pledging process because we don't have membership selection and need a way to determine fitness for membership. It most assuredly is NOT synonymous with hazing.

HAZING AND PLEDGING ARE NOT SYNONYMOUS. If you think that, it's either because you've never seen an effective pledge program, or because you've been brainwashed.

I remember on my campus it was a big deal that DZ's had "Baby Turtles" and Phi Sigma Sigma had "Baby Penguins" and Chi O's had "Baby Owls"... the Greek life advisor threw a fit the year I rushed and said there couldn't be "baby" anything because it was condecending. Some people just get ridculous about it.

:confused:

that doesn't sound like hazing, that sounds like girls being girls

Pledge is a much better name than "s&%thead" or "goat,"

Theres no way the terms rush, pledge, bid, band party, or grain punch are going anywhere. Worrying about semantics is ridiculous, especially when you're in your late teens early twenties.

Is grain still legal where you are? We can't get it any more. :(

That's exactly right.

I really hate it when people hide behind the term Politically Correct (PC). That's just too easy.

In this case, though, it's pretty much what has happened. The terms have gotten confused.

There are a whole bunch of folks, including a lot of US Presidents, Congresspersons, captains of industry and just plain folks like me who "rushed and pledged" and managed to live through it just fine, thank you.

This is one case (there has to be at least one) in which I'm in total agrement.

The reason for the new terms is unfortunate -- as is the fact that they fly in the face of a couple hundred years of Fraternity and Sorority Tradition.

Personally, I find the term "recruitment" a little creepy. It always makes me think of cult members going out to find unsuspecting weaklings to join their flock. I think SAI still uses "rush", but I'm sure that'll change soon.

It's a "band meeting" the band doesn't have parties (and you better not forget your music!)!! Right RedRose...;) ;)

We send one or two guys to a neighboring state that sells it. I think usually West Virginia or something. They have big package stores right by the border that specialize, well worth the effort.

From Merriam-Webster Online:

Main Entry: pledge
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): pledged; pledg·ing
1 : to make a pledge of
2 : to drink to the health of
3 : to bind by a pledge
4 : to promise the performance of by a pledge

Main Entry: haze
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): hazed; haz·ing
Etymology: origin unknown
1 a : to harass by exacting unnecessary or disagreeable work
b : to harass by banter, ridicule, or criticism
2 : to haze by way of initiation
3 West : to drive (as cattle or horses) from horseback
- haz·er noun

Not even close...

A fraternity or sorority can "rush" "rushees" have "pledges", run a "pledge program" and be a shining example of a great house with NO hazing. (Like my chapter)

Just as a fraternity or sorority can have "recruitment" for "potential new members" and run a "new member education program" and STILL haze the daylights out of those "new members".

It's not what you say...its what you do. This whole thing feeds the idea that the entire Greek System is bad and we ALL need to change. Yes, as in all things there are bad apples that bring us all down. But even if we develop an entirely new language to try and dust off the wounds it won't make a bit of difference. "Would a rose by any other name still smell as sweet?" Yes, yes it would...because that's what it does...it smells sweet.

A REAL solution is to keep working to rid the ACTIVITIES that give greeks a bad name...if we keep catering to this kind of argument of semantics we will eventually become entirely homogenious through the systematic erasing of that which makes us unique by those who feel threatened because they are not part of it and therefore assume it's bad. We might as well become just like every other club on campus, sign up and you're in, no requirement b/c we don't want you to file suit against us for discrimination b/c you didn't make the GPA, or that we "hazed you" by asking that you learn a little history about the organization you say you want to be a part of. What's next?
"Oh I'm sorry what?...You're offended because you don't know what our letters mean...Ok well then we'll go ahead and stop using them..."

Again from the dictionary:

Rush
Function: verb
transitive senses
Etymology: Middle English russhen, from Middle French ruser to put to flight, repel, deceive, from Latin recusare to refuse -- more at RECUSANT
6 a : to lavish attention on : to court b : to try to secure a pledge of membership from

Not sure about you guys but I enjoy having attention "lavished" on me every now and again.

And isn't that how a lot of chapters do rush (mine does).
Take guys out to eat...hold a BBQ at a lake for them...get to know them...pay attention to them..."court them"...in order to secure a pledge of membership from them?

Doesn't say anything about alcohol...so I guess the houses that 'hot box' or 'dirty rush' must need to buy a dictionary because they are WAY off...

Ha ha, that's where we have to go for it too.

I see it as trying to put a better spin on old terms. Too many non-greeks live to hear about how greeks haze, have pillow fights in their underwear, and other such nonsense.

I try to use the PC terms, only so I don't slip when I do need to talk to someone higher up. What gets me, though, was when I used the word, "Girls" at a chapter event, and was quickly corrected that they were "Women." I told them that when they act like women, I will call them women. When they act like little girls, be glad I don't call them babies!

Co-sign. I still use the "old" terms, partly because of the tradition behind them but, more importantly, because they make a lot more sense than the new PC terms do to me.

When I "rushed", I went through "Rush". When I "pledged", I became a "pledge". I went through my "pledge period" under my "pledge educator". At no time was I hazed, and I never felt anything but welcomed by my older sisters. Because of this, I developed a strong sense of pride, loyalty and love for my sorority that sticks with me today.

I often worry that being too PC waters down the Greek experience for people and eliminates some of the most fun, bonding traditions that come with being a member of a GLO.

Again, co-sign.

I'll co-sign as well, Brother.

***(I've been to one of your chapter's Summer Rush events and can't tell you how impressed I was...and it picked up several outstanding Pledges. The grilled steak sandwiches were great!)

DEKES do not pretend to accept, much less pay lip service to, PC terminology or the stupidity that lies behind the whole concept of PC. When one considers that PC stems from "Animal Farm" rather than a reaction to "Animal House" and that the concept of political correctness came out of immediately post-revolutionary Russia (surely you remember that "magnificent" experiment in social engineering known as the USSR!) I am amazed how anyone buys into any of it.
We believe that we are responsible for our actions and that it is necessary to stand up and be counted for what we believe. We do not believe in sugar coating and pretence. The traditional terms are alive and well at our house. We admire the Rampant Lion, we disdain the cowering rabbit.

Thanks!!!

Mrs. DA's college apartment mate is married to a Deke from Miami of Ohio. Great guy. Not too PC.

It's only fair for me to add that I don't have a problem with using new terminology -- only when something is forced on us when there is nothing wrong with the orignial terms except someone, or some groups misinterpretation of them.

We use both rush and recruit. We still use pledge.

It appears to me (I will stand corrected if I'm wrong) that this use of language is more of an issue with sororities than fraternities.

Of course maybe we're just more stubborn.

Its becoming a pretty big issue with us, that I'm hoping will be dealt with at convention.

Yes, nationals instructs us to use certain terms, like associate member and such, which we promptly ignore. It seems they are dead set upon destroying greek life. Thankfully, they have little choice but to let us do what we want. Just more PC bs intended to notify the world that fraternities are no longer societies, but rather just groups of kids on campus who share no common bond.

I think you're right. Sororities seem to be considerably more PC than fraternities.

That's always been my understanding.

However, after reading some of the posts in this thread, I really wasn't aware that fraternities were having to deal with the issue as well.

When I pledged a few years ago, I think it was around the time of the terminology transition. My "pledge" class had the last version of the "Pledge Manual" and we were the last to go through "Frat Ed" with the "VP-FE". The next NM class had NM Education after going through "Recruitment".

I still use both, but it depends on who I'm talking to.

My problem with the term "new member" is that "new members", at least in my mind, are not members of my sorority yet. The whole "new member education" period is about preparation for membership. Outside the Greek community I feel these terms can be very confusing and don't see how they are helpful.

On a campus like mine when there were 3 groups (now 2) using the NPC terms and 7 fraternities and local sororities using the old terms I tended to use the old terms. Having our own special jargon for recruitment when everyone else is using the old terms and the general public understands what they mean seems almost pretencious

I agree. I didn't consider myself to be a "new member" of my sorority until I'd gone through our initiation.

Isnt the trouble stem from the Problem that We have shot our own selves in the foot so to speak?:confused:

Isnt that the truth! But see My Previous Post. Who did it unto them selves?:rolleyes:

OTW, beleive Me Fraternitys do as well.

I first Heard the Term "New Associate" in a little meeting the Night before We as a Local were Colonized in 1966.

I argued the Pledge vs New Associate until I was blue in the face. I was then told that it was going to happen. Remember, LXA was the First to Outlaw Pledge Hazing in Greekdom.

Pledge I was told gave a Negative conotation which reverted to Hazing.

Yes, The PC Terms as They Have become unlovingly despise are fact.

But, either We go along with it or die.

We are continually under the gun no matter how much good each GLO does.:(

This has been a big issue on our campus. We've had 2 greek advisors in a row who come from the NPC tradition, and while they've done great things, there can still be a tussle over the terminology we use. The use of PNM and COB (which is NOT COB! it's snap bidding if anything) and recruitment and blah blah blah has caught on in Panhel terms, but on the individual level, we have a hard time using those terms because it lacks the tradition here, and I have a feeling that it will take a long time to break the tradition of "pledge", because new member implies something completely different in our community.

I don't think there's reason to get offended by any of the terms used. I'm working to alter the language I use depending on which individual chapter or council I'm referring to whenever possible. For example, if I'm working with an NPC chapter, I'll most definitely use "PNM," "new member," "recruitment," and "new member period," but I still occasionally slip with the infrequent "rush" or "pledge" term. No one ever gets too offended. And I find it funny that although the newer terminology has been circling our NPC chapters for over 6 years now, I still meet freshman students who use "rush" and "pledge" and have no clue what the new terms refer to.

Our IFC chapters typically still use rush and pledge, but have been slowly moving to recruitment and new member. Again, no one seems to take offense to any of the terms, new or old.

With our NPHC chapters, I've come to use the term "intake," and when I use that term around anyone who doesn't know anything about NPHC chapters (don't get me wrong, I'm no expert- but I'm learning so I can better serve all my students), they almost always need explanation and the IFC and NPC chapter members usually think that's a great, neutral, "non-hazing" term.

Where we start to see some dissent on my campus is when some of our Multicultural Greek Council (MGC) orgs use the term "rush" or "pledge." A lot of the NPC and IFC chapters that have been around for a long time (or not in some cases) will instantly report these chapters for hazing and when we ask for evidence, all we get is "they're rushing people and calling them pledges." That's when I get to be an impromptu educator and I love the looks on the students faces when I tell them that their way is not the only way.

UNLDelt said it well- a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet

The thing is though (and NPHCers please correct me if I'm wrong) "intake" is something completely different than the NIC or NPC rushing and pledging (or recruitment and new membering) process. It's not really an interchangeable term.