Aggies Take Seahawks' '12th Man' To Court
 

Seahawks Ordered To Stop Using '12th Man'

COLLEGE STATION, Texas -- Texas A&M has sought a restraining order against the Seattle Seahawks, asking the NFC champions to stop promoting the "12th Man" marketing campaign.

A local district judge in Bryan, Texas, reportedly signed a temporary restraining order Monday against the Seahawks from using the "12th Man" slogan until a ruling is made on whether the phrase is a licensed trademark of Texas A&M University. A hearing is scheduled for Thursday.

The school filed the request Monday in district court in Brazos County, arguing that the Seahawks are infringing on A&M's legal claim to the "12th Man" slogan. The school claims it created the moniker more than 80 years ago and owns the rights to use it.

"Texas A&M University certainly has no ill will towards the Seattle Seahawks," said Steve Moore, A&M's chief marketing officer and vice president for communications. "However, we have the responsibility and legal obligation to protect the university's trademarks, which in this instance is the '12th Man."'

The Seahawks, who play Pittsburgh in Sunday's Super Bowl, have recognized their followers as a "12th Man" since the mid-1980s, when capacity crowds turned the now-demolished Kingdome into one of the NFL's loudest venues. The team retired the No. 12 in 1984.

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Wow, is 12th Man trademarked by them? I've heard of many schools using that.

My husband's alma mater used 12th man as well.

So does MY husband's alma mater. I bet your husband's school stole it from mine! ;) :p

You guys definitely had your 12th man in place this year.:(

They use "12th Man" at Invesco as well. How that damages a school in Texas I can only imagine.

This is like when Diamond Dallas Page tried to sue Jay-Z for using the dynasty hand symbol. I mean, shouldn't Delta Sigma Theta sue for making that the Rocafella gesture, not DDP?

Anyone remember when Spike Lee tried to sue Spike TV for "using his name"? I guess he was unsuccessful.

My husband and I are laughing at this whole concept...

Now from what I have read and heard the 12th Man at Texas A&M is trademarked and they have sued other NFL teams for using it and won...

What we find funny about it, I would not want to piss someone like Paul Allen off because he is a very ruthless man. And if you want your computers to continue working and not always de-worming them, then I'd not be someone to piss this kind of person off...

But hey, Texas has Texas Instruments. So well, it will be Texas against Washington. That would be funny for the all the whiners in Seattle...

At least Texas won't be hating on Californians anymore for a little bit...

<cof cof> There is NO comparison between Microsoft & Texas Instruments. ;)

And...what's this about whiners in Seattle!? The whining is coming from Texas, not us!

And Paul Allen knows this...

Oh yeah, I mean "winners" :rolleyes:.... Yeah, yeah, that's it...

ATM has had that trademarked since the 1920's and it has been a very successful marketing strategy for them. Every school that wishes to use it has to get permission. I go to UT and I even know this. I hate ATM and I feel that they are completely right in this manner. I do not know of another school that promotes the 12th Man slogan or campaign other than ATM. It is also a multi multi million dollar ATM foundation.

I attended Texas A&M and while I am one of the least Aggie-ish Aggies even I side with my school on this one. Texas A&M has been using the 12th man for AGES and I am almost certain that we have trademarked.

This will be interesting.

actually, as I recall they reached a settlement (i.e. Spike got paid).

Remember that trademarks have to retain source identification to avoid becoming a generic term - if it does become generic, the mark can be rendered invalid.

I'm not saying this has happened, but if so many other teams refer to their fans as the '12th man' there exists the distinct possibility. The portion about the foundation would not apply, IIRC, since there is really no incidence of confusion by sharing the mark.

-RC
--I'm also not a lawyer, so those with the JD may want to correct my generalizations.

They renewed the trademark in 1990, 1996, and 2002

I'm pretty sure renewal (maintaining the registration) is separate from maintaining the actual mark (which precludes generic status), which is what I was referring to.

Again, there are many other issues involved, which I'm not qualified to speak on - I'm just pointing these out.

Also depends on where the trademark is- most people file for a state and federal trademark, but sometimes some of the older ones are only in the state and they never bothered to go for federal.

I'm too tired to delve into trademark law this evening (got an A in the course in law school ;) ). I will say that if they do have this trademark, the enforcement seems pretty selective, being that tons of other colleges used the 12th man.

no other college uses the 12th man like ATM and I don't even go there. The trademark that ATM was filed federally and they have won cases in the past concerning violations. If it were a state matter they wouldn't have file any reach with the Seattle Seahawks. Also, none of their past grievances were with in state organizations.

if you renew the trademark of a certain thing, it is still yours, and cannot be depicted or used in any way that pertains to the originator's intent. And no, ATM has the exclusive rights to use the 12th Man and anything that it entails, advertising, foundations, etc. etc. I have been to many many schools and football games and have never seen any of them use this in any way than just talking about it or communicating it by word of mouth.

I'm sorry, and your law degree is from where? What background do you have in trademark law?

Several of us have named that our own schools have used the 12th man, cowboy.

I don't see what the big deal is.

After Sunday, who cares for another year?

hehehe

I kept reading "ATM" and seriously thought you were going to post ".. it is also a multi multi million dollar ATM machine"

... as you can tell, I am easily amused :)

I take it you are an attorney. I got accepted by a top law school and double majored in criminal justice and political science, so I have an idea about what I am talking about. I also have several members of my family who are attorneys at very high profile law firms and I have talked to all of them about it. They all have backgrounds in Trademark Law, need I say any more?

Is that your big insult....to call me a cowboy? Or do you think all people from Texas are cowboys? Try harder next time. I have a 14,000 acre ranch in Texas, but I am not a cowboy.

This is mostly true . . . unless the jury finds the trademark invalid, as it would if the term had become generic. Which was my point. You're not addressing what I'm saying here.

Majoring in criminal justice and poli sci doesn't give you an information on trademark law or any credibility that you'd know what you're talking about in trademark law. There's a lot more to it than you're recognizing. You know some of the basics, but there are a lot of nuances that you don't know about.

You keep on acting like an ass... you're continually embarassing yourself and SAE.

did you not read the rest of my post? i said that i had some background but i went to others to get the facts straight? i wasn't being an ass, nor did I say anything negative about you. I am sorry, but i am going to take the word of my family members, some of the top attorneys in Texas over yours. i am not trying to brag by any means, but it is the truth. One of them is in criminal law, the other two are both in business law. They knnow what theyare talking about.

you stereotyped me and called me a cowboy because I am from Texas.

how did I embarass myself?

Yeah, CJ and PoliSci are way hard.

In the going to class hungover every day sort of way.

P.S. Criminal law != trademark law

Did I say anything about them being difficult? moron. actually upper level classes were very difficult.....is this your way of trying to be insulting?

I got accepted to some of the top law schools in the country, i really don't care what you think, I took the best route to prepare myself for what I wanted to study in post grad. I could give a flying f**k what you think.

If you would have actually read my post, you would have seen that I got other opinions from family members who are all very respected attorneys in high profile law firms.

While there's no general need to defend your opinion, this point is not persuasive - mostly b/c you're not addressing the actual legal points presented (which are not, in fact, opinion-based).

You may very well have consulted the patent/trademark guys at Baker Botts - but if you did, you haven't relayed their advice very well. No one is saying that A&M is implicitly wrong - however, I can envision many scenarios in which the trademark is not allowed with reference to their student section, mostly related to VALIDITY concerns, not registration issues.

Note these also would not preclude the '12th man foundation', which you've propped here - note that trademarks only apply in instances in which 'product confusion' would exist. This means the Seahawks could call their fans the '12th man' and not violate the TM for the Foundation.

yeah, i realize exactly what you are saying about the foundation, that is common knowledge. The information that I received basically said that A&M had the exclusive rights to "The 12th Man." Including advertising, marketing, foundations, etc. etc. Basically, I would guess, A&M has the sole rights to the slogan used in any way shape or form. They have won cases in the past pertaining to the same issues. What more do you people want?

So where did you get accepted? Where are you going?

That's nice that you have well respected attorneys in your family. However, it doesn't mean that they have any idea of what they're talking about unless they're working on the case. Which you've given no indication that they are :)



Again, what you're saying is very very basic information. There are a lot of details and nuances that you don't understand that the rest of us are trying to point out. It's not as simple as "they have a trademark on it". There's a lot more to it.

Being a criminal defense lawyer means you don't practice trademark law. They're going off of what they learned in law school.

I'm in law school, MORON. Are you?

And I majored in polisci, I KNOW it isn't hard.

How long have you been a trademark lawyer Dani?

-Rudey

Agan, you didn't read my earlier posts well enough. One is a criminal defense attorney, the other two are in business law and have both dealt with trademark issues. I'm glad you know them and what areas they have practiced in.

Why is it such a big deal with you to coment on undergraduate studies, who cares?

Yawn.

good response. might want to improve on those reading skills....might help you out in law school......since I know nothing about it. Where do you go may I ask? I am probobly at better

You probably are at a better ranked school. I don't care about that because my school is the best school for me, since we teach fun things like manners and ethics. Also, it's free. Also, I'm not a constant disgrace to my letters. :)

As RC mentioned, an issue in this case is whether "12th Man" has become generic -- like aspirin, cellophane, thermos, brassiere, shredded wheat, and yo-yo.

My limited understanding is that if the alleged owner of the trade mark doesn't 'vigorously' defend its trademark, it loses it. If it lets obviuos infringers go unchecked for any period of time, it seems to be persuasive in that direction.

While there is no question where the 12th man was invented, A&M has done a horrible job (and it's not like they have no resources to fight this stuff) at protecting its alleged trademark.

My guess is that they lose here.

Or at least the Seahawks might make a sizeable 'donation' and this whole thing could go away :)