Minimum wage? Let's discuss
 

Some givens:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0130/p14s01-cogn.html

As it is, an employee working full-time at the federal minimum wage of $5.15 an hour makes $10,712 a year, about $1,000 above the official poverty level for an individual ($9,654).

18 states and the District of Columbia have enacted higher minimum wage laws, from about $6.15 to $12 an hour ... the federal minimum wage hasn't been raised in nine years.

Since members of Congress last voted to boost the minimum wage, they have raised their own pay by 23 percent. Last October, the Senate voted 51 to 49 to hike the minimum wage, but it would have taken a supermajority of 60 votes to pass.


http://www.nationalreview.com/commen...0601300839.asp

This incessant glibness of liberal politicians and activists who imagine themselves the only champions of the poor is what blinds them to new ideas. Their worldview supposes that poverty is (1) an intractable flaw in free-market capitalism, (2) deep and persistent, and (3) made worse by globalization cum neo-imperialism. Amazingly, none of the charges holds water when tested against real-world data.

A major investigative series in the New York Times last summer reported that only half of the members of the poorest quintile in 1988 were still there a decade later.

Many of America's "poorest" people in terms of income are simply retired or in college. A 2003 publication by the Federal Reserve bank of Minnesota noted that nearly a quarter of households have no earnings whatsoever ...

... the Times own survey of American attitudes about poverty. Only 16 percent of respondents believe that their socioeconomic class is lower than when they grew up. In absolute terms, 45 percent of Americans recognize that they are really wealthier than their parents, and 38 percent say they are the same.

... EPI (a labor union think tank) recommends at the end of its new paper: a higher minimum wage, more generous unemployment benefits, easing welfare rules, and higher taxes on the rich. EPI does this with a straight face, though certainly their researchers must have noticed that states with higher minimum wages and highly progressive tax codes (see New York) tend to have the highest income gaps.... the bigger story is in the footnotes where you learn that incomes among the poor are rising in every state as well.

Re: Minimum wage? Let's discuss
 

That would suck to work full time and only make $10,712. You would think housing costs would eat up 98% of your wages depending on where you lived. I don't know anybody that makes under 7 an hour though.

In my area, $5.15 is what most people start out at. I made that working at the same job for 4 years. Now, I make $7 an hour, and I feel like I'm rakin' in the dough! Seriously though, minimum wage is not nearly high enough. It's so hard to make ends meet, that people in my area would rather not have a job and get welfare, because you make more that way. I know that's horrible, and my family doesn't do it, but it's true and it happens. It's horrible because that's the only option left to some people.

The only person I've ever known in my area who started at more than $5.15 was working at a bank, and she started at $5.50.

Yeah, but didnt you say you can buy a house for 70k where you live? In other parts of the country you just can't make a living off of $7 an hour.

No, $7 isn't much. I'm just saying I felt like I had really accomplished something when I started making that. I still live with my parents while I'm at home, so I'm not sure how much rent and stuff is, but I do know it's a lot cheaper here than a lot of places. $7 an hour is amazing for an undergrad intern around here...I know people who have degrees and still make minimum wage...

But they are doing it by choice. There is no one forcing them to take that job in that city, is there?

are college educated people making this kind of money????

:eek:

You would be surprised...

Mr Sageofages took a part time job at Walmart to help out with the Cobra expense.

He told the store manager that he couldn't work before 6 pm. The manager asked "why" Mr Sageofages said "because at my real job I make *BIGBUCK$* an hour. Whereupon the manager answered "BIGBUCK$?? GEEZ I wish I made that"

wow, but still.....if things are tight, i'd have a side hustle, but it'd be like private consulting or something like that....at least to pad the resume....

You can get big bucks if you have a good webcam show.

Mr Sageofages took the position mostly to teach daughter Sagesofages #1 that you can get a job...

Mr Sageofages is now working with the dataencryption project in the infrastructure division of Wells Fargo. (cha-ching! We may actually be back on our feet by this time next year!)

:D Awesome!

After I graduated with my bachelor's, I got a job where I was paid peanuts because most places I know of prefer to promote from within, and the best I could get was a position that was right below the managers. I did have a little 'authority,' but it was so depressing to see people with a lot less education than I making a lot better money. Even some of my managers had no degree; they had just been working there a couple years and were practiced at the art of brown nosing. ;) While I was making more than minimum wage, I do know some college-educated people who make that. Back home you can make it on that--it's tight, but you can. Here...well, I doubt it.

LOL- I am so with you there!!! My first job was anwsering telephones at a pizza place, making 5.15 an hour! When I started working at the grocery store I'm currently at I was just shocked that they were willing to pay me 6$ an hour! I have to say though, as much as I hate working customer service, they actually treat me pretty well! I get benefits, paid holidays, heck, just getting paid breaks was enough for me to apply, lol.

my first ever job was at braums during junior year of high school. they paid me $5.50. my cousin was working at mcdonalds and she was paid $6.50.

(This is so good it's worth posting twice)

In the good ole days, when Hoosier was in high school, the starting wage at McDonalds was 75¢. After six weeks, a raise to 90¢.

McDonalds hamburger: 15¢ (19¢ with cheese).

One hour's pay bought five McD burgers.

Today: McD burger: $1

One hour's (at min. wage) pay buys 5 1/2 burgers.

At typical McD. pay of $7.50/hr., you can buy 7 1/2 burgers.

There's your concrete proof that today's workers are way ahead, based on the McDonald's economic index.

If this was in your textbook, it'd cost $35.99.

Following that logic, when I was in highschool, McDonald's paid $3.35 an hour and a hamburger was 50 cents. You could then purchase 6.7 burgers with one hour of pay AND, the burgers were bigger, you got more pickles and more onions.

The McDonald's economic index doesn't take size of bun, burger, and number of pickles and onions into account.

Today, Ontario raised it's minimum wage to $7.75. In Toronto, there is no way you can live on minimum wage (you can, because poeple do it all the time, but it's not much of a life). The cost of living in this city is very high.

Someone here making minimum wage earns about $1240 a month (and that's before all deductions).

Believe it or not in my area places like McDonalds and Wendy's pay more than some assembly and sales jobs. I know the kids working at the Gap get paid less than the McDonalds peoples.

My worst paying job EVER was 6$/hr. starting at Walmart when I was in High School. Even my job before that at Taco Bell I made 7$/hr. Even as a nursing home receptionist on the weekends now I get $8.50 to sit and answer phones, unlock the door to let the vistors out (and keep the old folks in), and read a book. My Mon-Fri job, I make decent money...I can't believe that someone could live on $5.15.

From another thread:

Only 2.8% of American workers above the age of 30 work for minimum wage. These workers generally are not sole wage earners and live with family/parents and have access to supplemental income through the Earned Income Tax Credit.

-Rudey

I don't think that anyone in my neighborhood, or the whole area of where I live for that matter works pay check to pay check. Having a salary is the only way to go. I have never experienced wages, having only dont internships during the summer. That would suck really bad to make that small amount of money though.

Everyone that has said that you cannot live on MW is correct. However, MW isn't meant to support a family/household. MW is for part-time students or temp jobs. This may be something to teach HS students before graduation.
Not to mention here in NC the MW will increase soon and no one sees from the small business point of view that we pay as owners so much in worker's comp and unemployment taxes and cannot afford to pay more and more for the same amount of employees.
Most of the new jobs in this country have come from the small business sector and if MW increases our number of employees will decrease and I don't see how that will benifit anyone.

So basically what most people are saying is that it's rare to receive the minimum wage of 5.15.

The McDonald's index is bullshit...am I the only one willing to point that out? It's ONE example, which does not a trend make. I mean we can easily point to a lot of other things that haven't followed that trend.

Given my sociology background and what I know from the research I've read, I know that the MW is not enough to raise a family...even if you're above the MW by a couple of dollars. But I also realize that there are concrete and very real issues that raising the MW creates without simultaneous holds on the prices of goods.

However, the main problem that exists for the working class is the surprise expenditures like health care that are truly damaging. So one could argue that it's not the MW per se that is the issue, but rather the nature of jobs that pay around that level...

These jobs are often 40 hr/wk, with no health care, no sick/vacation days, and for the working poor are insufficient to support having access to reliable transportation. So if they do get sick or something comes up, what would take someone with a car maybe 45 minutes to do ends up taking 3 or more hours as they wait for buses or try to get cabs or relatives/neighbors to drive them. That of course means they can't work for those three hours, which may mean they don't eat that day, which doesn't help their overall health, etc. Or what usually happens, they don't go to the doctor because they can't afford it, or it's too much of a hassel and so they wait until they are really, really sick and end up in the ER, having to have a lot more work done on them than if they had just gone when the problem first arose.


It's a complex issue, and one that needs to group the working poor in there, rather than just those below the poverty level, mainly because there is plenty of evidence that's been done to show that the poverty level is too low.

Actually, there's plenty of evidence that expectations are too low.

Last week, FEMA was paying for 1100 hotel rooms for evacuees in the Atlanta area. After repeated delays and announcements, yesterday was the final day to pay.

The United Way and others set up hotlines and prepared emergency plans for these people.

They got a total of 6 calls, according to the newspaper.

The moral of the story: When the govt. finally got arround to expecting the evacuees to provide their own housing, damn near every one did.

The working poor has help from the local govt. Anyone not meeting certain standards can apply for WIC and Welfare/Foodstamps.
Again the point of education is what I was trying to make. Before any of us have families we should consider the cost and how can we afford it and if we cannot we need to find a way or a new job or hold off from the idea of family until we can support them.
Not to mention when MW goes up so will the cost of everything including everyday items like milk, so if the cost if living goes up what will it matter if someone makes 2/hour more if they pay more at the counter, there would be no change.

And then can we all hold hands and sing kumbyah??

Seriously, I think the people ending up in the situation that they can't pay for their family either a) did not plan to have a family, it was a "oops" kind of thing or b) had a good job and got fired/layed off/etc and found themself in the situation they are in. I don't think many people purposely plan on having a family they can't support.

Right. So the poor are all waiting until they're 30 to start a family but still keep popping them out because of mistakes.

-Rudey

Maybe they don't know what's causing it.

I thought it was kissing up until last week.

-Rudey

It's not an "oops thing" when you quit school without a degree, insert or allow insertion of a penis without a condom, leave your parents' home without having a real paying job, or quit your job without having a better one lined up.

You are the product of the choices you make. Choose poorly, and your life will surely suck.

And this applies to adults, too, who count on the lottery or Social Security for retirement. Thank God both Wal-Mart and McDonalds hire senior citizens for greeters and counter clerks.

My dream retirement job happens to be greeter at Walmart. I can socialize all day "Hello! How are you today?" with no pressures and no responsibilities. I can't wait...

This thread is interesting. If you believe everybody on here, then hardly anybody makes minimum wage but it's going to cost businesses more to raise minimum wage so we're going to have major inflation. If nobody is making minimum wage anyway, then it should have no effect on prices of anything to raise it. In fact, if hardly anybody makes minimum wage, then it will have no effect on anything to raise it.

In Michigan, if you don't have children, the only form of welfare is food stamps. I guess Section 8 housing could be counted as welfare, but even that is too expensive in many areas.

When I tried to get a 3 bedroom apartment here, I found out that the only ones in my area are "moderate income housing" and you had to make less than $35,000 with 2 kids to qualify for it. The rent was $875 a month. If I had two kids and only made $35,000, I couldn't afford $875 in rent! Ridiculous!

Anyway, I rambled and got off topic.

Well, that's not *quite* fair. Not all of those things are choices. Though I agree with the sentiment - a lot of life IS about the choices you make (if nothing else, then about how you deal with the hand you're dealt) and making poor decisions about career, living situation, family, debt, etc. isn't going to help.

Ha. You might have an easier time making the $875 in rent, though, with the help of food stamps, free child care, etc.

Clearly, the answer to this problem is for you to start making babies.

Uhh.. I have two kids and that's enough for me! You have to be below poverty level to get food stamps. I'd have to make less than $15,000 a year. Free day care? What world is that in? Only if you get ADC do you get free day care and that's only while you're LOOKING for a job, not once you get one.

I make quite a bit more than minimum wage but it's hard to make ends meet with only one income in a family. I honestly have no idea how people can live on less than so little (even if they make $9 an hour, that's not much).

The numbers I provided are for a certain age group - generally the group that is working those jobs as a way to make a living. Teenagers and college kids that are working to make date money often work these jobs. And the places they work at are often the places that cater to less wealthy individuals.

And don't forget the earned income tax credit that you may qualify for when you get a job at Walmart.

The apartment thing is strange. In Chicago, you can get a nice 1 bedroom for 1200 and then if you made a low amount of money i think it dropped to 400 or so. Strange.

-Rudey

Tonight my book club is discussing,Random Family by Adrian Nicole LeBlanc . It documents 3 generations in one family who "oopsed" their way through life.

I'm mostly being a smart aleck. I'm grumpy today. The apartment thing WAS weird and really frustrating because I was forced to buy a house when I didn't really want to yet. Anyway, they weren't LOW income housing, they were MODERATE income housing.. very odd.