UGa: “Alcohol should be covered by the meal plan.”
 

http://www.redandblack.com/vnews/dis.../43d5a9f92e8e8

Although it is cliché to say underage drinking is a real problem, the bigger issue is students are not drinking responsibly — no matter what age.

_... On Facebook.com there are 26 groups with alcohol related titles including “Alcohol should be covered by the meal plan.”

The responsible thing is to allow drinking earlier, much the same as Germany and others do. Their alcoholism problems are much less and kids know how to drink responsibly. Sure it takes generations of acclimation, but we're America, yeah?

who cares if they are not drinking responsible hell most people learn afrer one or 2 bad nights of getting sick or waking up with a horrible hangover.

I hope one day, that America and it's colleges and greek systems, will support the idea that an adult should be responsible for themselves.

Hey... on some campuses up here you meal card is accepted at all the on campus pubs - and by dial-a-bottle :D

You used to be able to purchase alcohol at the on-campus bars with your meal card. However, students were running out of meal points by October, so they quickly put a stop to that.

Ah, another Great American Experiment, make it illegal for people under 21 to drink Alcohol:rolleyes:

The Only Country in The World to do this and by blackmail of course!:mad:

Dont teach Kids to drink sensably, tell them they cant.:mad: Really works doesnt it!:rolleyes:

Not true, in some countries alcohol is forbidden to all, including the <21s.

Still easy to find alcohol in those countries. Just like it is easy to find blow here. Doesn't matter if it's illegal or not.

Sometimes blow's easier to get than alcohol.

I recommend reading the post by Hoosier in Risk Management about the USA Today story in the January 25 issue that speaks to student deaths and studies that show that the brain of the average 18 year old has not reached the stage of making good decisions...

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...threadid=74414

With no pun intended, it's sobering for those of us who are parents and/or advisors.

I'm not really sure whether or not it matters which age they reach "good decisions."

I think that if you're taught to drink responsibly, you'll be more likely to do so. If alcohol wasn't treated as such a taboo, it wouldn't be such a big deal to get completely wasted. My bf's parents are Swiss, and they started giving him wine with meals at about 13. He's an extremely responsible drinker...and he always knows which wines to order with dinner.

Honestly, I think giving a teenager keys to a car is much more dangerous than teaching them to drink responsibly.

Hell ive been drinkin since i was 14 I've found my limits granted sometimes its fun to push them but most the time I stop before i get out of hand. Every one learns eventually when its their time to stop if alcohol was alowed at an earlyer age when parents can supervise it I personally believe it would cut down alot on the alcohol posionings and death related to alcohol.

And that's why it's so great to allow them to enlist in the military!! God Bless America!!

:rolleyes:

The bolded (by me) sentences from the USA Today article sum up what is the problem, not this "developing brain" nonsense.

**snip**
"Parents want the university to be protective," says Ann Franke, president of Wise Results, a Washington-based education law and risk management firm. But because some students arrive on campus without the skills to deal with new risks, and because they have privacy and other adult rights, "no college can guarantee 100% safety for students," she says.

Tucker Brown, 21, a junior at the University of Georgia in Athens and vice president of the student government association, says the sudden freedom college brings has an effect. "I think naturally you come to college, you don't have your parents there anymore, you know you can go crazy," he said during a USA TODAY roundtable discussion in December on college drinking. "Not that you've been waiting to go crazy, but now it is an option, especially for those people who were on a tight leash."

**snip**

Parents have to get a clue and realize the college is not going to shepherd and coddle their little darlings and call them when they are late for class and wipe their noses and tuck them in at night. Teach your kids about alcohol and let them make some mistakes under your roof before you send them out into the world.

This is one thing I do thank my parents for.



In my college town, those with mommy and daddy's credit cards went to Hy-vee to purchase liquor because it showed up on the bill as groceries. My last year at college, they started a city-wide "meal plan", not university sponsored, where you could use the same pre-loaded card at most of the restaurants in town (Including some bar & grills).

I went to a Lutheran college that was filled with kids who had been the good kids in high school and never drank or such. They were always the ones that went crazy the first year at college. They would get drunk every night, sleep with tons of guys and cry about it all the next morning. They had no freedom in high school and they didn't know how to handle it when they got up here. I also came from a culture where alcohol was not taboo, although neither of my parents drink, and so i never say the big deal. I go out and have fun but i've never had any of the experiences my other friends did when they first started drinking in college.

I firmly believe its a stage that many, NOT ALL (before i have people jumping down my throat), go through and there's little we can do to stop it. If the campuses were more accepting and worked to keep it under control instead of being everyone's enemy they could cut down on some really dangerous activities like driving drunk, since you can't walk home without getting harassed, or being scared to bring a friend in to the hospital because he and you are underage.

Sidenote: A girl at my campus was at a party and someone slipped a date rape drug in her drink. She had to get her stomach pumped and spent the night in the hospital. She woke up to a Minor in Consumption ticket on her nightstand from the campus PD

Our campus had a policy, and the police for the most part respected it...if you went to the hospital for alcohol/drug related problems, there was no backlash (no academic pro, fines, tickets, etc..) with the theory that they'd rather have students get help and live then worry about getting in trouble.

That would be the logical way to do it......

Exactly. I don't see what's so difficult about this concept. Teach your kids how to become reasonably responsible adults before they go to college -- this includes teaching them about drinking. Teaching kids about drinking is far more involved and complex than just saying "Don't do it!"

BU was just the opposite - I knew of a couple of cases of students getting rushed to the hospital for alcohol poisoning, then receiving a disciplinary letter in the mail a short time later.

33girl, you're right - parents have to take part of this responsibility as well. It can't be left to the school.

So drinking is the same to you as military service?

The two serve the same function in society?

-Rudey

No, Rudey, she's saying that the teens that go to college and are not responsible enough yet to handle alcohol/underage drinking are the same age/mental capacity as those who are considered old enough to enlist in the armed forces. If you're not considered mature enough to handle alcohol, how are you considered mature enough to handle a gun in armed combat?? Plus, her comment was in response to the article about 18-year old brains not being mature enough to make responsible decsions, and then she posted the part of the article about drinking.

Actually we fight wars out of necessity. At the end of the day if you're 5 years old or 25, if someone is threatening your life many people understand why you would fight back. We drink alcohol for pleasure. The two are very different.

Additionally, different tasks take different levels of aptitude for decision making. Not all questions easily find answers at the magic age of 21 or 25 or 30. Some questions can be answered quite easily at a very young age.

So that link makes no sense. In the future, just let your sister talk.

-Rudey

Jess was right.

-33
--I just ate a cookie the size of a baby's head and didn't feel like explaining myself for the ookabillionth time.

The assumption here is that parent's understand control and limits when it comes to alcohol. American culture tends toward wanting, not restraint. Look at the size of our cars, houses, closets etc, we are not good at saying "I don't need". I'm not sure I believe that your average american parents truly understand limits and how to teach that to their children. Until we as an entire society can begin to understand this, there will always be problems.

One moment of culture shock was when I was visiting a German school... I must have been about 16 and they were celebrating the last day of school, sitting in their classroom (with the teacher) having your typical end of year party, except they had beer too. It was strange for me as an American to see it.

Another thing to keep in mind is the difference between beer and liquor. (correct me if I'm wrong) but there are different drinking ages for liquor vs beer.

unfortunately, if the enlisting age was 21, we'd have no volunteer service...and I know its the SAME old argument you always hear....but you can vote, and you can fight, and you can drink overseas, but you cant drink it the country that you're defending - not even on base anymore. Total crap.

Classic case of the government having its cake and eating it too....

"Fight for us, but no, you cant drink, you arent old enough."

"Well, fine, if I cant drink, I dont wanna fight..."

"Sorry kid, it doesnt work that way."

Why is there nobody in office whose smart enough to try to change this f*cked up policy?

Where?

How many 18 year olds that go into the military are having their life threatened (on a military level)? What are they fighting back against? And your saying that just because a 5 year old has the capacity to know to fight back when threatened, they are capable of making the decsion to join the armed forces??

So are you implying that the question of whether to enlist is easy, and how much and when to drink is hard?? I realize that different tasks take different aptitudes, and there is not a magic age, but what makes 18 LEGALLY the magic age for enlisting and 21 LEGALLY the magic age for drinking? Whether you agree or not, I believe 33 was stating her opinion, that 18 is not a good age for people to make that decsion.

It's not saying drinking=enlisting. The comparitive is mental capacity of an 18 year old, if they aren't able to make good choices concerning alcohol, which this and several other articles show, how are they supposed to make good choices when it comes to shooting someone??

When you're 18 and in the military, how many choices or decisions are you really making? At that point, aren't you just following orders?

She was talking about Europe, spesifically Germany in her post. In Europe, you have to be 18 for hard liquor and I believe there is a min for beer/wine, but it's not enforced (seeing that there's a beer vending machine on every corner):)

The thing is, if American parents are incapable of putting aside our cultural tendency toward excess so they can teach their children how to be responsible adults, that is not the problem of universities or fraternal organizations. Why do some parents seem to think they're entitled to have schools and organizations finish the job of raising their kids when they were unable to do so?

True enough. Colleges aren't always that logical though....

The reprecussion aren't that bad for a first offense on my campus, but people still don't what to get 'in trouble'. Bad things happen when no one wants to tell an RA when someone in suffering from alcohol poisoning. My freshman year someone I know asked her friends (in between passing out and puking) to get an RA and take her to the hospital. Her friends didn't take her because *they* were afraid of getting written up. She was okay eventually, but it could have been a lot worse.

Again, the military is a necessity and self-defense while drinking is a pleasure that is not necessary.

Again, different questions and tasks require different levels of comprehension (and age).

This link is stupid just like the empty phrase "Make love, not war".

You and 33girl are both wrong.

-Rudey

do the two of you who are posting about all of these military issues have any kind of rational common sense whatsoever? For one, the drinking age in the United States is calculated and set by the Surgeon General at 21 because this is the most accurate lapse in time it takes for one's liver to be fully developed. That is why 21 is considered legal. The "legal" age for someone living in the United States is 18 as it pertains to voting, military service, and the legal system. When you graduate high school you are an adult. Keep in mind that not everyone goes to college. Many people that apply for military service do not always get in. You have to take a test before you are allowed to enlist, its called the ASVAB. You are put into divisions based on your scores. You have to have intelligence to be a marine or part of any combat unit. What do you mean how many 18 year olds are being threatened in battle? Are you unaware of the situation that our country is in right now. Or maybe the Gulf War, or Samalia, or Kuwait. Those in the military make good choices because they are constantly drilled and taught what to do. They are also under constant supervision and scrutiny from their superiors and men who have made a career out of military service. Jesus Christ, do you think that drinking too much can be associated with strategically killing an opposing force. Soldiers who do not follow strict guidelines and protocal concerning engagement set forth by NATO and the US government get court martialed and go to Leavenworth. If you are unaware, that is a military prison. Those decisions far outweigh the "difficult" decisions that some dumbass kid has when faced with a bottle of bourbon. Hmmmm, get sick and throwup or go to prison for a few years? Your arument is so irrational its hard to even refute it.

how right you are rudey and saetex.using their "logic"(18 is the magic number), then 18 year olds should not be going off to college either. comparing alcohol consumption and enlisting in the military is not logical.

the military has intensive and on-going training for both enlisted personnel and officers. they don't casually hand out guns to anyone who shows up at a recruitment center. boot camp weeds out people who can not make the grade, for whatever reason and aptitude tests are given to determine where best a new recruit will succeed.

the drinking age was 18 when i was in college, alcohol didn't seem to be the big deal it is today. maybe that was because of the drinking age. you would still see drunks at football games, but i honestly can't remember seeing my friends plastered on a regular basis. the goal was not to get wasted. maybe the attraction to illegal drinking nowadays is the illegal part?

when young people break the law,pass out at parties, end up in the er having their stomachs pumped, in order to drink alcohol, to me that says that they don't have the maturity to handle the responsibility.

I can't believe I have to explain this.

Enlisting - which is a MUCH BIGGER DEAL than being allowed to have a drink IMO - is allowed at 18. Therefore it's stupid to disallow someone from drinking. It's also stupid to not allow an 18 year old to rent a hotel room or rent a car (2 things which happen regularly). If we are going to say 18 = adult, it should equal adult for everything, not just things that are politically correct.

The drinking age is not "set by the surgeon general" at 21 - if that was the case it would change from SG to SG, and it would be a federal law, which it's not. The states which had a lower drinking age changed it due to political pressure from extremist groups like MADD and due to the Federal Highway Funding Act, which withheld funds from states who didn't have a 21 drinking age. Maybe there's something somewhere that says 21 is the "magic age" at which your liver is fully developed, if so link please.

I've TAKEN the ASVAB. I apparently did so well on it that recruiters kept calling me and calling me, even though I can't think of anyone less suited for military service than me and anyone who wanted to go into it less. So much for the infallibility of that test.

When surgeons study to be surgeons, they don't just read books on it. They practice on corpses and later, on real humans, with a more skilled surgeon watching in case anything goes wrong. We don't expect them to read books and nothing else for 8 years and then do their first open heart surgery. Would you go to a surgeon like that? I wouldn't. We expect that of teenagers with the drinking laws, though. They're not allowed to have a drop of alcohol, they're not allowed to be around it, but when they're 21 they're supposed to magically know how it works, what their limit is, etc. If every single person who drinks underage stopped, it wouldn't stop binge drinking or people dying or barfing or anything like that. It would just make it happen at 21. Then we'd say 21 year olds are too immature to handle it, so it needs to be 23. And round and round, till the drinking age is 75 or so.

I'm glad ya'll believe that there is no need for responsibility or maturity in the military.

I can't believe you keep trying to rationalize something that makes no sense.

Again, the military is a necessity and self-defense while drinking is a pleasure that is not necessary.

Again, different questions and tasks require different levels of comprehension (and age).

This link is stupid just like the empty phrase "Make love, not war".

-Rudey

You are a waste of oxygen.

-Rudey